Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread III

[George Carlin]

First topic message reminder :

Historical Banter:

https://www.606v2.com/t48240-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread
https://www.606v2.com/t51313-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-ii
 
A. Edinburgh
 
1. Pre-season
 
Fri 30 Aug 2013, 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 15 - 5 Newcastle Falcons
 
Fri 23 Aug 2013, 19:30
Northampton Saints 24 - 6 Edinburgh Rugby
 
2. 2013/2014 Season - Played
 
Sat 7 Sep, 19:15
Munster Rugby 34 - 23 Edinburgh Rugby
 
Fri 13 Sep, 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 16 - 13 Newport Gwent Dragons
 
Sat 21 Sep, 18:30
Ospreys 44 - 10 Edinburgh Rugby
 
Fri 27 Sep, 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 9 - 22 Scarlets
 
Sun 6 Oct, 14:05
Cardiff Blues 29 - 12 Edinburgh Rugby
 
Fri 25 Oct, 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 20 - 13 Benetton Treviso
 
Fri 1 Nov 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 25 - 23 Zebre
 
Fri 22 Nov 19:05
Ulster Rugby 41 - 17 Edinburgh Rugby
 
Fri 29 Nov 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 43 - 10 Connacht
 
Fri 20 Dec 19:35
Edinburgh Rugby 11 - 6 Leinster
 
Thu 26 Dec 15:05
Edinburgh Rugby 16 - 20 Glasgow Warriors
 
Wed 1 Jan 18:05
Glasgow Warriors P - P Edinburgh Rugby
 
Sat 15 Feb 17:00
Connacht Rugby 11 - 7 Edinburgh Rugby
 
Sat 22 Feb 14:30
Scarlets 25 - 21 Edinburgh Rugby
 
Fri 28 Feb 19:35
Edinburgh Rugby 31 - 25 Ospreys
 
Fri 21 Mar 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 3 - 9 Ulster Rugby
 
Sat 29 Mar 19:00
Benetton Treviso 20 - 16 Edinburgh Rugby
 
Thu 3 Apr 18:30
Newport Gwent Dragons 19 - 23 Edinburgh Rugby
 
Fri 11 Apr 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 22 - 29 Cardiff Blues
 
Sat 19 Apr 15:30
Zebre 26 - 13 Edinburgh Rugby
 
Sat 26 Apr 19:05
Glasgow Warriors 37 - 34 Edinburgh Rugby
 
3. 2013/2014 Season - Final Games
 
Sat 3 May 17:00
Edinburgh Rugby v Munster Rugby
Meggetland
BBCALBA/TG4
 
Sat 10 May 18:30
Leinster Rugby v Edinburgh Rugby
Royal Dublin Society
 
B. Glasgow
 
1. Pre-season
 
Sat 31 Aug 2013, 15:00
Exeter Chiefs 26 - 29 Glasgow Warriors
 
2. 2013/2014 Season
 
Fri 6 Sep, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 22 - 15 Cardiff Blues
 
Fri 13 Sep, 19:05
Ulster Rugby 12 - 13 Glasgow Warriors
 
Fri 20 Sep, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 12 - 6 Leinster Rugby
 
Fri 27 Sep, 19:30
Zebre 17 - 24 Glasgow Warriors
 
Sat 5 Oct, 18:30
Scarlets 12 - 17 Glasgow Warriors
 
Fri 25 Oct, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 6 - 13 Munster Rugby
 
Sat 2 Nov, 17:00
Connacht Rugby 12 - 19 Glasgow Warriors
 
Fri 22 Nov, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 8 - 23 Newport Gwent Dragons
 
Fri 29 Nov, 19:05
Ospreys 16 - 28 Glasgow Warriors
 
Fri 20 Dec, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors P - P Benetton Treviso
 
Thu 26 Dec 15:05
Edinburgh Rugby 16 - 20 Glasgow Warriors
 
Wed 1 Jan 18:05
Glasgow Warriors P - P Edinburgh Rugby
 
Sun 9 Feb 14:00
Glasgow Warriors 8 - 6 Connacht Rugby
 
Sat 15 Feb 18:30
Cardiff Blues 20 - 27 Glasgow Warriors
 
Sun 23 Feb 14:30
Newport Gwent Dragons 24 - 23 Glasgow Warriors
 
Sat 1 Mar 20:30
Leinster Rugby 28 - 25 Glasgow Warriors
 
Sat 22 Mar 18:30
Glasgow Warriors 14 - 6 Scarlets
 
Fri 28 Mar 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 11 - 9 Ospreys
 
Fri 4 Apr 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 29 - 10 Benetton Treviso
 
Sat 12 Apr 18:30
Munster Rugby 5 - 22 Glasgow Warriors
 
Fri 18 Apr 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 27 - 9 Ulster Rugby
 
Sat 26 Apr 19:05
Glasgow Warriors 37 - 34 Edinburgh Rugby
 
3. 2013/2014 Season - Final Games
 
Fri 2 May 20:00
Benetton Treviso v Glasgow Warriors
Stadio Monigo
Mediast/ALBA
 
Sat 10 May 18:30
Glasgow Warriors v Zebre
Scotstoun Stadium
 
[16/17/18 May
PO Semi Final
[tbc] v [tbc]
Venue TBA]
 
[Sat 31 May
PO Final
[tbc] v [tbc]
Venue TBA]
 
***
 
Any and all patter about these teams is welcome.
 
Any jingoism, sledging or graceless kicking of anyone whilst they are up or down will see posts deleted.
 
Be gracious and be constructive.

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

You can talk wee man - whats that with the "ya all" accent !!!!!!!!   

[funnyExiledScot]

On a tenuously related note, I see that Grand Jeem is back over the Channel to Sarries to replace Steve Borthwick. Good to see him conceding needless penalties in the Jeff again.

That's interesting. The Sarries conditioning regime is pretty brutal, and the expect a pretty high workrate from their forwards. This could have a really beneficial impact on Jim Hamilton, which can only be a good thing for Scotland. His workrate around the park was always my biggest concern with him.

[tigertattie]

by workrate, do you mean falling onto the ball in rucks?

[funnyExiledScot]

Simply getting to the rucks would be a big start!

[George Carlin]

On a tenuously related note, I see that Grand Jeem is back over the Channel to Sarries to replace Steve Borthwick. Good to see him conceding needless penalties in the Jeff again.

That's interesting. The Sarries conditioning regime is pretty brutal, and the expect a pretty high workrate from their forwards. This could have a really beneficial impact on Jim Hamilton, which can only be a good thing for Scotland. His workrate around the park was always my biggest concern with him.

Do people genuinely believe he is still in the mix for Scotland (other than as one of the parties on this ridiculous split summer tour)?
Gray, Gray, Swinson, Gilchrist and Low all in the mix. Why would you choose the Tattooed One?

[tigertattie]

Why would you choose the Tattooed One?

coz he has "leadership" qualities and is an "enforcer"

[George Carlin]

Why would you choose the Tattooed One?

coz he has "leadership" qualities and is an "enforcer"

My secretary Jody could also be described in those terms but I wouldn't necessarily have her call the line-outs against the USA.

[tigertattie]

she'd be an easy lift though!

[funnyExiledScot]

On a tenuously related note, I see that Grand Jeem is back over the Channel to Sarries to replace Steve Borthwick. Good to see him conceding needless penalties in the Jeff again.

That's interesting. The Sarries conditioning regime is pretty brutal, and the expect a pretty high workrate from their forwards. This could have a really beneficial impact on Jim Hamilton, which can only be a good thing for Scotland. His workrate around the park was always my biggest concern with him.

Do people genuinely believe he is still in the mix for Scotland (other than as one of the parties on this ridiculous split summer tour)?
Gray, Gray, Swinson, Gilchrist and Low all in the mix. Why would you choose the Tattooed One?

I do think he's still in the mix. I personally put both Grays and Gilchrist ahead of him at the moment, but after that I think it's pretty close. Swinson is extremely able but didn't have the same impact at the 6 Nations as he did for Glasgow (although to be fair no-one really shone under Scott Johnson in the 6 Nations, including Hamilton who was nowhere against Ireland). I haven't seen much of Low at lock this season, so don't really have a view.

For the World Cup you just pick the best players on form, ignore age, and a strong season from Hamilton at Sarries could easily propel him into the squad.

[R!skysports]

Alex Allan is switching clubs and has signed a 2 year deal at Glasgow from Edinburgh......great bit of thinking yet again by Edinburgh!! Sounds like the Ryan Grant situation all over again.
Good move for Allan though!

FFS Edinburgh this is becoming a farce.   

Allan looked to really have potential and just as he looks to make the next step up we ship him to Glasgow, leaving Edinburgh with a Scotland international, two Saffers and a New Zealander covering looshead?

Can't say much about Cringle, Irvine-Hess and Dick leaving, as I've never seen them play.

The heart and soul of Edinburgh has well and truly been ripped out with all these players leaving.  You could say it is a good thing that is needed, but I'm yet to see the new Edinburgh team deliver.

Isn't that the next step up though?

[funnyExiledScot]

I think there are quite a few steps in between at the moment Risky!

[George Carlin]

she'd be an easy lift though!

You haven't seen her, god bless her socks.  

[funnyExiledScot]

she'd be an easy lift though!

You haven't seen her, god bless her socks.  

I really hope she has access to your screen........

[RDW]

I bet he doesn't even have a secretary.

For all we know he lives next to the Emirates in London and works as a sewer unblocker, not the United Arab Emirates as a lawyer!

[tigertattie]

she'd be an easy lift though!

You haven't seen her, god bless her socks.  

I really hope she has access to your screen........

dude, if you are getting a secretary, get a hot one! its one of lifes little perks!

[funnyExiledScot]

I bet he doesn't even have a secretary.

For all we know he lives next to the Emirates in London and works as a sewer unblocker, not the United Arab Emirates as a lawyer!

Ahhhh! That's explains how he knows ASBO! They are part of the same Union!

[George Carlin]

I bet he doesn't even have a secretary.

For all we know he lives next to the Emirates in London and works as a sewer unblocker, not the United Arab Emirates as a lawyer!

Ahhhh! That's explains how he knows ASBO! They are part of the same Union!

 

[tigertattie]

how great a job would it be to run about after ASBO and wash off all the lines he paints!

He's 101 years old and he'd think dementia had set in!

"I fot ah'd painted dat dere road yesterday"

[R!skysports]

how great a job would it be to run about after ASBO and wash off all the lines he paints!

He's 101 years old and he'd think dementia had set in!

"I fot ah'd painted dat dere road yesterday"

Run? - the speed he goes you could stroll with a latte and still have time to watch the Edinburgh game highlights

[tigertattie]

fair point risky!

I dont think it is because he is old and slow that he goes at that pace! I think its because he has to keep stopping to hurl abuse at anyone none west coastish

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

fair point risky!

I dont think it is because he is old and slow that he goes at that pace! I think its because he has to keep stopping to hurl abuse at anyone none west coastish

Exactly what is wrong with that kind of thing ?   

[IanBru]

fair point risky!

I dont think it is because he is old and slow that he goes at that pace! I think its because he has to keep stopping to hurl abuse at anyone none west coastish

Exactly what is wrong with that kind of thing ?   

Damn right. If I didn't hurl abuse at people, I'd be early for work every day.

In Glasgow, we call it 'charm'.

[George Carlin]

Glasgow have signing (or re-signing most probably) related news this morning.

[RDW]

Edinburgh have decided they don't need Matt Scott any more, because they have Andreas Strauss, so have given him to Glasgow?

[tigertattie]

Edinburgh have decided they don't need Matt Scott any more, because they have Andreas Strauss, so have given him to Glasgow?

don't even joke about that as it is highly possible!

[George Carlin]

Jerry Yanuyanutawa signs for another year, which is a good move.

[VinceWLB]

Yep, happy with that, his scrummaging albeit illegal at times is underrated, remember him giving Mike Ross a bit of a hiding.

Still no news on Ed Kalman, i guess they are waiting on Cusack's recovery for that one.

[RDW]

Edinburgh rugby awards (competition must have been fierce):

Player of the season - Grant Gilchrist

Players player of the season - Roddy Grant

Young player of the season - Dougie Fife

Newcomer of the season - Cornell Du Preez

Iron Man - Alisdair Dickinson

All spot on I think!

http://www.edinburghrugby.org/news/14/05/08/er-awards-gilchrist-scoops-top-gong

[George Carlin]

Edinburgh rugby awards (competition must have been fierce):

Player of the season - Grant Gilchrist

Players player of the season - Roddy Grant

Young player of the season - Dougie Fife

Newcomer of the season - Cornell Du Preez

Iron Man - Alisdair Dickinson

All spot on I think!

http://www.edinburghrugby.org/news/14/05/08/er-awards-gilchrist-scoops-top-gong

Love the Iron Man Award. Or as Alan Solomons calls it, the "Least Badly Conditioned Player Award".

[VinceWLB]

Surely Nel should have got the Iron Man Award? i'm sure if there was back to back games he would play 80 min both of them.

[RDW]

It's chosrm by the strength and conditioning coaches and is meant to reflect training and gym work too.

[VinceWLB]

Ah makes sense then, Ali Dickinson is one of the hardest working rugby player you will see!

[funnyExiledScot]

Agree with all of those, although the Players Player award to Roddy Grant is odd.

Maybe it's a sympathy vote for being ginger.

[tigertattie]

Reverse discrimination mr FES?

[TheMildlyFranticLlama]

Anyone watching the championship semi final? Bristol aren't looking too clever at the moment, slightly worrying for Mr Rennie but at least it is over 2 legs I guess!

[RDW]

9-0 Rotherham half time - not a complete disaster!

[TheMildlyFranticLlama]

No, but the number of turnovers and dropped balls has been pretty awful. They're winning now though, just scored a lovely try

[RDW]

10-9 Bristol now - Titans player sinbinned

[TheMildlyFranticLlama]

Entertaining match, i'm enjoying it. Have Bristol signed a 10 for next season? Nicky Robinson won't cut it in the premiership these days

[RDW]

17-9 Bristol

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

17-14 FT

Rennie looks useful at this level - but I still worry how he will deal with the physicality of the AP

No sign of McInally, but Mitch Eadie scored one of Brizzle's tries

[RDW]

Oof finished 17-14 Bristol - a bit too close for comfort for the next round!

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Meanwhile Richie Gray going well for Castres who are leading ASM in Clermont, with Wagga Hines displaying such soft hands that you wish he'd come out of retirement. Max Evans showing the brainless side of his character and being awarded a YC for a deliberate and unnecessary knock down. No sign of Beattie - is he injured?

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Castres may take the Stade Marcel Michelin record, leading 19-9 - would see Cotter released early for Scotland duties

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Castres win, the 77 home win record is gone, and Cotter can get on with Scotland

[BigGee]

That Clermont team has gone one year past its sell by date, they have not looked the same team all year. I bet they are wishing that they had made all the changes last year.

Anyway it can only be good for Scotland and it will give VC a few weeks to prepare and take control of the tour. Hopefully he will watch the Glasgow game tonight and realise that we do have some good players!

[George Carlin]

That's probably a monkey off Clermont's back to be honest. It'S the end of an era for this Clermont team, to be sure. Possible that they just flatly underachieved. Wonder how many stars they will hold onto in the off season?

[RDW]

Good article in the Scotsman from Ian Morrison, comparing Glasgow and Edinburgh

IT WAS the best of clubs, it was the worst of clubs, it was the pro-team of wisdom, it was the pro-team of foolishness, one set of fans had belief, the other set of fans were incredulous, it was the season of light, it was the season of darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair.

Despite enjoying much the same budget, and a pretty healthy one at that, the divergent paths of Edinburgh and Glasgow have rarely been so obvious as now.

Before last night Glasgow had lost two of their last 11 matches, Edinburgh had won two of theirs. The west coast franchise secured their place in the RaboDirect Pro12 play-offs while Edinburgh finished well down the rankings, rubbing shoulders with Connacht, who are under-funded and largely unloved but still punch well above their weight, not an accusation that can be thrown at Edinburgh. Alan Solomons’ side resemble heavyweights who have taken one blow too many, staggering around the ring punch drunk mumbling, “I coulda been a contender”.

So they could have. Edinburgh have a very decent starting XV and they can perform admirably when they put their collective mind to it. They have beaten Munster and Leinster this season just to prove it, but they don’t bring their number one game nearly often enough.

Edinburgh won seven matches under Michael Bradley last season and, for all of Solomons’ claims of “progress”, they have won… seven matches under the South African (unless Hell froze over and Leinster lost last night).

Given their roster, Edinburgh should be highly competitive. Here are a few reasons why Glasgow’s miles better.

CONTINUITY OF COACHES

Since March, 2006, Glasgow Warriors have had two bosses: Sean Lineen and Gregor Townsend, both locals, while Edinburgh have been through more coaches than Brian Soutar. By my reckoning Edinburgh have seen off eight head coaches in the same time Glasgow have had two, even if several were more of the caretaker variety rather than a full-time appointment: Lynn Howells, Henry Edwards (CT), Andy Robinson, Rob Moffat, Nick Scrivener (CT), Michael Bradley, Steve Scott (CT) and Alan Solomons.

The constant chopping and changing cannot help any side settle. One coach brings in players he likes, only to have those players fall from favour when he leaves and the next man does the exact same thing. Everyone who comes in tries to stamp their mark on the club. It’s understandable but, in terms of long-term planning and club morale, all the chopping and changing is a disaster. Local coaches also mean that Glasgow snap up the best of the young Scottish talent.

CULTURE

This is the crux of it. Between them Sean Lineen and Al Kellock initiated a hard-working, hard-to-beat culture that is at the root of every successful side. A club needs a culture of honesty and hard work combined with a lack of egos and that is precisely what Glasgow’s long-standing skipper demands of his colleagues. Glasgow have an enviable close-knit club culture that has been carefully constructed over many years.

Not until Edinburgh’s senior players forge the culture in the shape and form they want, rather than what someone else dictates, will it grow into something strong enough to depend upon when times are tough.

DEFENCE

Despite leaking four tries to Edinburgh in the recently rescheduled derby match, ahead of the final round of matches Glasgow had conceded just 22 tries all season, the best record in the league. Edinburgh’s players have convened behind the posts on 55 occasions, the second worst record in the RaboDirect after Treviso. Defence wins matches and Edinburgh’s is porous.

DEPTH

Glasgow have some depth to their squad, Edinburgh almost none. DTH van der Merwe is injured but Tommy Seymour steps into the gap. Ryan Wilson drops out but Rob Harley fills his boots. Ryan Grant needs a break, Gordon Reid drops anchor. Alex Dunbar is missing, Mark Bennett shines. All season long Townsend has chopped and changed his team but, apart from a mid-season blip, the squad continues to win matches.

Edinburgh’s older heads are on their last legs but that is at least partly because Solomons has no faith in some of his younger, less-experienced squad players. Alex Allan played two games off the bench while Rob McAlpine started just one match and, at 23 years old, the lock is no longer in kindergarten. They were the lucky ones.

Hooker Alun Walker started two league matches last season and none this. Flanker Hamish Watson started five Rabo matches last time out, none this season. Solomons does not appear to trust his youngsters to rise to the Pro12 challenge.

GROUND

Andy Robinson dragged Edinburgh to second whilst inhabiting the giant Murrayfield bowl, but it isn’t ideal. Glasgow have been in Scotstoun for two seasons now and they deliver a very decent experience for a good number of fans, especially when the temporary stands from the sevens are in situ at the business end of the season.

Edinburgh will have to move but, to the shame of the capital city, if there was an obvious option they would have grabbed it by now. The SRU were close to shaking hands with George Watson’s College, who own Myreside, the most appropriate facility in Edinburgh, but Meggetland may offer fewer complications vis-a-vis competing school demands.

Can we ask yet again why Edinburgh City Council/SRU did not spend that little bit extra on Meggetland when the old ground was redeveloped several years back?

PLAYMAKERS

You can’t begin to play rugby without a decent one and by my reckoning Glasgow boast the best six stand-offs in Scotland, thanks largely to local coaches who snap up the best Scottish talent.

In no particular order, Scott Wight, Finn Russell, Ruaridh Jackson, Duncan Weir, Peter Horne and Stuart Hogg are all better than anyone in Edinburgh’s colours.

To date, Edinburgh have side-stepped the problem by getting Greig Laidlaw to run the show from No.9. What will they do now he is gone?

FOREIGN LEGION

Both teams have whistled up more than their fair share of turkeys but Glasgow’s policy of going for quality over quantity has generally paid dividends. Which of Edinburgh’s imports has had the same impact of Josh Strauss, Niko Matawalu and Sean Maitland on the Warriors? Cornell du Preez got off to a good start although he has faded since, WP Nel is effective about the field but he concedes too many scrum penalties and all too many of Solomons’ other foreign signings have been marinaded in ordinary.

Solomons’ entire strategy is based upon foreigners making Edinburgh into a winning team, but what if his imports simply aren’t up to it?

POACHING

Top football clubs will do almost anything to prevent a top player from joining a rival club, but Glasgow have a history of recruiting some of Edinburgh’s best players over the years, including Dougie Hall, Ryan Grant and, only recently, Alex Allan. You wonder how the respective clubs might have fared had Al Kellock turned down Lineen’s offer to move from Edinburgh back to Glasgow all those years ago.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

"Marinaded in ordinary" - kind of sums it up, I guess

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

This is a good piece, by a good journalist and really gets to the nub of the problem at Murrayfield - total mis-management on a grand scale.

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