Warren Gatland swooping for Chiefs' Gareth Anscombe?

First topic message reminder :

Warren Gatland's search for a star playmaker to orchestrate Wales’ World Cup challenge has turned to New Zealand.

And not only has Wales coach Gatland put Super 15 star Gareth Anscombe top of his shopping list but that Cardiff Blues are set to table a bid to lure the Welsh-qualified back to the Arms Park.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/warren-gatland-targets-chiefs-star-7014342

Thoughts? I'm sure Anscombe would be a great asset for the Blues, and if the All Blacks don't want him I'm sure Wales would. But I'm usually against these kind of things.

quinsforever wrote:you talk a load off nonsense.

the dawn of professionalism in rugby has boosted quality, crowds, and hugely employment since rugby players became "free" to sell their services into the "market".

patriotism has not been affected one whit. thats why the RWC and 6N and 4N continue to be the pinnacles of the game.

during the amateur era, which was not-quite-as-amateur-as-it-should-have-been, decisions were made which were absolutely not in the interests of rugby, but meant to preserve the blazer hegemony.

at least now motives are honestly laid out in transparent plans (RFU for example) and "money" is the currency which permits those laudable aims to be realised. Coaching at schools and youth levels. Insurance for players. etc. etc.

you do realise the stupidity in castigating a "free market" when what exists in professional club and international rugby is a series of localised monopolies/oligopolies?

"During the amateur era ..... decisions ...... to preserve the blazer hegemony."

There's a nice story about Gareth Edwards and the Welsh Big Five - the blazer hegemony - who used to select the team.

It was the morning of a Wales home international. As usual in the '70s, the players, coaches and selectors were in the Angel Hotel, Cardiff, just across Westgate Street from the Arms Park.  Edwards came down the stairs into the hotel foyer where he was button-holed by the chairman of selectors, who was probably wearing a blazer. Apparently the Big Five had heard a rumour that Edwards wasn't fit - hamstrings. They'd arrange a fitness test for him, which he'd have to pass before playing.

Gareth protested that if he wasn't fit he'd have reported the fact to the selectors. But there was nothing doing - the Big Five were insisting. They obviously didn't trust him - he was only a player, after all.

So Edwards, gymnast that he was, did his party trick right there in the foyer of the Angel Hotel - fully dressed, 10  consecutive aerial back somersaults!

"Is that fit enough for you, Mr ------?" he asked.  It was.

great story. love gareth edwards. didnt he get banned from rugby for a while for writing his autobiography after having retired? unbelievable to imagine nowadays.

I heard it was 20...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/wales/2356924/Voice-of-Welsh-rugby-refuses-to-be-silenced.html

quinsforever wrote:great story. love gareth edwards. didnt he get banned from rugby for a while for writing his autobiography after having retired? unbelievable to imagine nowadays.

Yes, being paid for writing a book about his career made Edwards a "professional", so for a while after retiring he wasn't allowed to coach or be involved with the game in any capacity.  He wasn't the only top player to experience it, of course. He did media work, notably captaining a team on "Question of Sport", took part in "Superstars", etc.

Edwards' standing in Wales has meant he's always been in demand for tv appearances, after-dinner work, charity events and so on. When Ian Botham came through Cardiff on one of his long-distance charity walks, it was bad news to learn that Gareth's knees were so shot he could only walk a short distance with Botham.

He's a director at Cardiff Blues - in achievements a shadow of the side he played for when it was Cardiff RFC - and I sometimes wonder, if it wasn't for the knees, if he could help by turning out for them - aged 67!

optimist wrote:

quinsforever wrote:you talk a load off nonsense.

the dawn of professionalism in rugby has boosted quality, crowds, and hugely employment since rugby players became "free" to sell their services into the "market".

patriotism has not been affected one whit. thats why the RWC and 6N and 4N continue to be the pinnacles of the game.

during the amateur era, which was not-quite-as-amateur-as-it-should-have-been, decisions were made which were absolutely not in the interests of rugby, but meant to preserve the blazer hegemony.

at least now motives are honestly laid out in transparent plans (RFU for example) and "money" is the currency which permits those laudable aims to be realised. Coaching at schools and youth levels. Insurance for players. etc. etc.


you do realise the stupidity in castigating a "free market" when what exists in professional club and international rugby is a series of localised monopolies/oligopolies?

"During the amateur era ..... decisions ...... to preserve the blazer hegemony."

There's a nice story about Gareth Edwards and the Welsh Big Five - the blazer hegemony - who used to select the team.

It was the morning of a Wales home international. As usual in the '70s, the players, coaches and selectors were in the Angel Hotel, Cardiff, just across Westgate Street from the Arms Park.  Edwards came down the stairs into the hotel foyer where he was button-holed by the chairman of selectors, who was probably wearing a blazer. Apparently the Big Five had heard a rumour that Edwards wasn't fit - hamstrings. They'd arrange a fitness test for him, which he'd have to pass before playing.

Gareth protested that if he wasn't fit he'd have reported the fact to the selectors. But there was nothing doing - the Big Five were insisting. They obviously didn't trust him - he was only a player, after all.

So Edwards, gymnast that he was, did his party trick right there in the foyer of the Angel Hotel - fully dressed, 10  consecutive aerial back somersaults!

"Is that fit enough for you, Mr ------?" he asked.  It was.

Good story Optimist, Id heard about those selectors that hang out at the Angel Hotel, apparently they were the ones that wouldnt let Keith Murdoch go down to the Kitchen for a late night snack.

"Good story Optimist, Id heard about those selectors that hang out at the Angel Hotel, apparently they were the ones that wouldnt let Keith Murdoch go down to the kitchen for a late night snack."

Yes, what happened with Keith Murdoch at the Angel was a mystery. Earlier in the day - December 1972 - he had scored the All Blacks' only try in a close win against Wales 19-16. Then that night came the incident with a security guard which led to him being sent home by the NZ management. Very strange.

Two months earlier Llanelli had beaten NZ in a gritty encounter.  He didn't score in that game but, in a recent tv documentary, one of Llanelli's flankers in the match said Murdoch "was a seriously hard individual". He'd never have said that if it wasn't true.

There have been many hard All Blacks over the years - look at the win record - but I wonder if Murdoch was getting too hard to handle for the NZ management of the time.

Yes you are probably right.There were many All blacks who felt that the New Zealand management on that tour were too weak, and gave in to pressure to send Murdoch home stripped of his Silver fern.

Out of interest is the Angel hotel still standing?

GloriousEmpire wrote:I heard it was 20...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/wales/2356924/Voice-of-Welsh-rugby-refuses-to-be-silenced.html

I'm not a Daily Telegraph subscriber so can't read the article.

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Yes you are probably right.There  were many All blacks who felt that the New Zealand management on that tour were too weak, and gave in to pressure to send Murdoch home stripped of his Silver fern.

Out of interest is the Angel hotel still standing?

The Angel's still there, but the connection with rugby ended years ago. The Welsh squad live and train at an HQ in the Vale of Glamorgan and come in by coach on match days - a far cry from leaving the Angel and strolling through the fans in Westgate Street to the Arms Park.

So back in the 70s did both teams stay at the same hotel?

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Yes you are probably right.There  were many All blacks who felt that the New Zealand management on that tour were too weak, and gave in to pressure to send Murdoch home stripped of his Silver fern.

Out of interest is the Angel hotel still standing?

Murdoch's treatment is the biggest stain on amateur rugby there is.

And all he wanted was a feed.

Scratch wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Yes you are probably right.There  were many All blacks who felt that the New Zealand management on that tour were too weak, and gave in to pressure to send Murdoch home stripped of his Silver fern.

Out of interest is the Angel hotel still standing?

Murdoch's treatment is the biggest stain on amateur rugby there is.

Let's not forget he assaulted a person and he was sent home for it. I do not think it was over the top to be honest.

Beats Wales and then his own manager, his Union and nation sold him out and abandoned the guy.

But he has continued to court controversy and was sought by Police following the death of an aboriginal who had burgled his home.

aucklandlaurie wrote:
So back in the 70s did both teams stay at the same hotel?

I wouldn't say categorically that they never did but normally they didn't. The Angel was very much associated with the Welsh team, who stayed there the night before home games. It's literally across Westgate Street from the Arms Park and on match days there'd be crowds of fans outside from early morning, most hoping to see the players strolling in and out and some looking for touts selling tickets.
Gerald Davies recently recalled that he always roomed with JPR Williams, and how an hour or so before kick-off they and other players in small groups would wander over to the ground. He said walking through the crowds of supporters gave them a great sense of belonging and the importance of the match to Wales.
Gerald was and is a passionate Welshman with a poetic turn of phrase. I'm not sure the same thoughts were going through the minds of ultra-competitive individuals like JPR and Gareth Edwards!

Just think what career advancement could await young mr Anscombe if he takes up this generous offer! He could well follow in the footsteps of other great welsh legends! Learn the art of running directly into opposition defenders! Gain the skill of running 100 meters per game (laterally), the pain of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, and on his day, appear on a plethora of immediately forgettable reality tv celebrity dance shows! He may even take up with a young welsh lady with a fine pair of lungs and an impressive double fronted bird collection... The sky could figuratively be his limit.

Or he could stay in NZ and learn how to choke professionally

Unfortunately the choking thing has lost some bite now they've won another World Cup.

GloriousEmpire wrote:Just think what career advancement could await young mr Anscombe if he takes up this generous offer! He could well follow in the footsteps of other great welsh legends! Learn the art of running directly into opposition defenders! Gain the skill of running 100 meters per game (laterally), the pain of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, and on his day, appear on a plethora of immediately forgettable reality tv celebrity dance shows! He may even take up with a young welsh lady with a fine pair of lungs and an impressive double fronted bird collection... The sky could figuratively be his limit.

Canny funny, you seem to know more about Welsh rugby than half of their fans.

Scratch wrote:Or he could stay in NZ and learn how to choke professionally

I thought Wales would make the final last time out. Shame they lost to FRANCE. Must've choked - that's what losing to France in world cups is called, right?

GloriousEmpire wrote:

Scratch wrote:Or he could stay in NZ and learn how to choke professionally

I thought Wales would make the final last time out. Shame they lost to FRANCE. Must've choked - that's what losing to France in world cups is called, right?

yes but not just france twice in 99 and 2007, aussie in 2003 and SA in 95.   

Biltong, another straightforward WUM post from Glorious regarding Anscombe's potential move to Wales

Just think what career advancement could await young mr Anscombe if he takes up this generous offer! He could well follow in the footsteps of other great welsh legends! Learn the art of running directly into opposition defenders! Gain the skill of running 100 meters per game (laterally), the pain of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, and on his day, appear on a plethora of immediately forgettable reality tv celebrity dance shows! He may even take up with a young welsh lady with a fine pair of lungs and an impressive double fronted bird collection... The sky could figuratively be his limit.

is left unchallenged or dealt with by MODs…that is the reason these exchanges occur because he is allowed to post this stuff, if it were about NZ of course it would not be tolerated.

Scratch I an tired of nitpicking who is the most guilty.

Please just stop it.

Biltong wrote:Scratch I an tired of nitpicking who is the most guilty.

Please just stop it.

Sure, will the MODS deal with glorious empire's wum posts when they are reported?

Sorry scratch, I was out of line. Bilts spotted it and have me a talking to. I won't provoke you again.

I doubt he will go any where unless he is capped,French clubs want the finished product.
Cash differences between Nz and rest of NH is probably not much,as long as he gets
game time.He will stay and try for NZ RWC squad they will need 6 -10`s on past one`s.

Might be a tough choice for him. In NZ he's stacked behind the three best 10's in the world and the utility of piri Weepu and at fullback in a log jam behind Dagg, smith, Piutau and probably Andre Taylor.

In Wales he would be the first pick 10 and cover 15 for 1/2p.

He might look at it and say "halfway up a smaller ladder is better than waiting by the bottom rung of a bigger one".

Ultimately though, like McAlistair before him, his game will not develop in the NH to the level it will if he stays in NZ- he may be a more saleable product in a few years even with no All Blacks experience.

GloriousEmpire wrote:Might be a tough choice for him. In NZ he's stacked behind the three best 10's in the world and the utility of piri Weepu and at fullback in a log jam behind Dagg, smith, Piutau and probably Andre Taylor.  

In Wales he would be the first pick 10 and cover 15 for 1/2p.

He might look at it and say "halfway up a smaller ladder is better than waiting by the bottom rung of a bigger one".

Ultimately though, like McAlistair before him, his game will not develop in the NH to the level it will if he stays in NZ- he may be a more saleable product in a few years even with no All Blacks experience.

Interestingly he probably only made the run on side for the under 20's because Matt McGahan went to league. I see McGahan turned down an offer from the storm and is back playing ITM cup later this year. Should be interesting to see how he goes.

blackcanelion wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:Might be a tough choice for him. In NZ he's stacked behind the three best 10's in the world and the utility of piri Weepu and at fullback in a log jam behind Dagg, smith, Piutau and probably Andre Taylor.  

In Wales he would be the first pick 10 and cover 15 for 1/2p.

He might look at it and say "halfway up a smaller ladder is better than waiting by the bottom rung of a bigger one".

Ultimately though, like McAlistair before him, his game will not develop in the NH to the level it will if he stays in NZ- he may be a more saleable product in a few years even with no All Blacks experience.

Interestingly he probably only made the run on side for the under 20's because Matt McGahan went to league. I see McGahan turned down an offer from the storm and is back playing ITM cup later this year. Should be interesting to see how he goes.

Talking of young union/league offspring....anyone know the whereabouts of Cade Umaga?  Was at Melbourne with McGahan but haven't heard much lately...he'd be one to prise back!!

Also Jackson Garden-Bachop (son of Stephen, cousins Aaron and Nathan Mauger) is in the NZ U20's and looks like making the step up to ITM Cup this year.  Back to the subject of Welsh imports, how is Bryn Gatland getting on?

I tried to look up cade earlier today. He was in the storm under 20's last year. Don't think he got an nrl contract. My guess is he's not quite up to top level at either union or league or/and is chasing another career outside sport.

blackcanelion wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:Might be a tough choice for him. In NZ he's stacked behind the three best 10's in the world and the utility of piri Weepu and at fullback in a log jam behind Dagg, smith, Piutau and probably Andre Taylor.  

In Wales he would be the first pick 10 and cover 15 for 1/2p.

He might look at it and say "halfway up a smaller ladder is better than waiting by the bottom rung of a bigger one".

Ultimately though, like McAlistair before him, his game will not develop in the NH to the level it will if he stays in NZ- he may be a more saleable product in a few years even with no All Blacks experience.

Interestingly he probably only made the run on side for the under 20's because Matt McGahan went to league. I see McGahan turned down an offer from the storm and is back playing ITM cup later this year. Should be interesting to see how he goes.

Yes, if he goes well im sure an Irish/Scottish granny will be dredged up...

Don't rate him to be honest, done nothing for the Chief's at 10 and not as good as Biggar and certainly well below 1/2 Penny. Cardiff may want him although he would be better off in Japan.

As Halfpenny is off to France it doesn't really matter

rainbow-warrior wrote:Don't rate him to be honest, done nothing for the Chief's at 10 and not as good as Biggar and certainly well below 1/2 Penny.  Cardiff may want him although he would be better off in Japan.

I dont think he'd walk into the Welsh team at 10, possibly at 15 while we're in need for wingers and Halfpenny/Williams can fill that role. I've said I'd be glad to have him at the Blues he covers positions we are lacking depth in.

Anscombe looks like a decent 15 and occasional 10. Would he get into the team ahead of Halfpenny or Liam Williams, unlikely, but may be an useful bench player as he looks a good goal kicker.

can the title of this be changed to acknowledge his new award please

Has Gareth changed his name or something?

Hooks a better player

Scrumpy wrote:Hooks a better player

Dan Carter is a better player