Warren Gatland swooping for Chiefs' Gareth Anscombe?

First topic message reminder :

Warren Gatland's search for a star playmaker to orchestrate Wales’ World Cup challenge has turned to New Zealand.

And not only has Wales coach Gatland put Super 15 star Gareth Anscombe top of his shopping list but that Cardiff Blues are set to table a bid to lure the Welsh-qualified back to the Arms Park.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/warren-gatland-targets-chiefs-star-7014342

Thoughts? I'm sure Anscombe would be a great asset for the Blues, and if the All Blacks don't want him I'm sure Wales would. But I'm usually against these kind of things.

Scratch wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:Gatland might've been smarter to leave that comment until after NZ's upcoming test series. With Cruden, Carter out and Weepu recovering from heart surgery, the All Blacks selectors may just drop Anscombe in for a test cap to shut out the welsh.

Anscombe should have more than enough to dispatch the poms, as he did at junior level.

what cynical move that would be, use up a player who is 4th/5th in the standings to prevent him pursuing his rugby for his mother country. Then again, NZ are the experts at managing overseas talent.

Again, it has not yet been clearly established whether his mother is actually Welsh or was merely born in Wales. The latter doesn't necessarily entail the former.

It could be that she's a NZ'er whose parents were simply on holiday in Wales at the time of her birth. None of the articles I've read on the matter specify.

Perhaps he is welsh. I've heard it said that on his day, he can beat anyone.

Knowsit17 wrote:

Scratch wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:Gatland might've been smarter to leave that comment until after NZ's upcoming test series. With Cruden, Carter out and Weepu recovering from heart surgery, the All Blacks selectors may just drop Anscombe in for a test cap to shut out the welsh.

Anscombe should have more than enough to dispatch the poms, as he did at junior level.

what cynical move that would be, use up a player who is 4th/5th in the standings to prevent him pursuing his rugby for his mother country. Then again, NZ are the experts at managing overseas talent.

Again, it has not yet been clearly established whether his mother is actually Welsh or was merely born in Wales. The latter doesn't necessarily entail the former.

It could be that she's a NZ'er whose parents were simply on holiday in Wales at the time of her birth. None of the articles I've read on the matter specify.

http://tvnz.co.nz/rugby-news/gareth-anscombe-coy-potential-welsh-plans-5939730

That confirms it for you.

Good luck to him if he goes. I'm guessing if it come's it'll be at the point where he figures his chances are limited in the AB's vs potential financial gain in Wales/Europe backed by being able to play for Wales immediately on landing.

At the moment his potential is limited. His primary option is 1st 5, although he's also an option at 2nd 5 and full back. In terms of 1st 5 he's obviously behind the Cruden, Carter and Barret. Add Taylor to the mix and the potential of Sopoaga, McGahn, etc and it's preety crowded, even with retirements, injuries etc. Full backs an option. There's Dagg, Piatau, Smith in the mix already. 2nd 5 relies on who's available. If they go for power at 12, he's obviously not going to fit that bill, if it's a distributor then there's options out there (Taylor, etc). The more I think about it, the more I think he's likely to go. Go play for Wales and in the Rabo for a year or two and then look to build a nest egg in France of England.

GloriousEmpire wrote:Perhaps he is welsh. I've heard it said that on his day, he can beat anyone.

Perhaps he is from a Pacific Island nation, in which case i expect he will get badged an All Black this summer.

Scratch wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:Perhaps he is welsh. I've heard it said that on his day, he can beat anyone.

Perhaps he is from a Pacific Island nation, in which case i expect he will get badged an All Black this summer.

Well NZ is a pacific island nation. So you might be right.

Scratch wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:Perhaps he is welsh. I've heard it said that on his day, he can beat anyone.

Perhaps he is from a Pacific Island nation, in which case i expect he will get badged an All Black this summer.

ignorance is bliss

Wales been raped of players for years . before the union became professional , the league up north took all our best players   . as bob Dylan once sung   times are a changing .  we need players like anscombes   caliber to bolster our Welsh club teams . anyway are there anymore players you dont want . gatland popping over with his pick and mix bag

Read somewhere Anscombe's mum is Welsh - is that true?

Aparently she is the daughter of Shane Howarth's grandmother.   

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Aparently she is the daughter of Shane Howarth's grandmother.   

The English one?

Do what the more sensible Unions are doing and designate the Baby Blacks as your second team.

She sang in the church choir. That's Welsh in my book. At least that's what Shane Howarth said.

That's a good point The Saint. Money troubles saw NZ do away with that and it'd be wise to have another look at that.

she ate a Welsh cake once. has anscombe talked yet

GloriousEmpire wrote:

Scratch wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:Perhaps he is welsh. I've heard it said that on his day, he can beat anyone.

Perhaps he is from a Pacific Island nation, in which case i expect he will get badged an All Black this summer.

Well NZ is a pacific island nation. So you might be right.

Thanks for clearing up NZ attitude to selection of any PI players, just one big happy family   

Scratch wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:

Scratch wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:Perhaps he is welsh. I've heard it said that on his day, he can beat anyone.

Perhaps he is from a Pacific Island nation, in which case i expect he will get badged an All Black this summer.

Well NZ is a pacific island nation. So you might be right.

Thanks for clearing up NZ attitude to selection of any PI players, just one big happy family   

Just the ones born in NZ. Interesting fact: did you know England have selected more foreign born PI players than NZ?

GloriousEmpire wrote:

Scratch wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:

Scratch wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:Perhaps he is welsh. I've heard it said that on his day, he can beat anyone.

Perhaps he is from a Pacific Island nation, in which case i expect he will get badged an All Black this summer.

Well NZ is a pacific island nation. So you might be right.

Thanks for clearing up NZ attitude to selection of any PI players, just one big happy family   

Just the ones born in NZ. Interesting fact: did you know England have selected more foreign born PI players than NZ?

so you have done it then, and england are just on the inevitable bandwagon NZ started way back, thanks for commercializing rugby talent NZRFU.

Pacific Islands scour NZ for qualified players, don't mind though, if it means they can beat the likes of Wales. Who remembers Samoa v Wales 2012? Samoan team full of NZ born or raised players eligible for the ABs. Glad that NZ could help out our PI brothers like that.

ebop wrote:Pacific Islands scour NZ for qualified players, don't mind though, if it means they can beat the likes of Wales. Who remembers Samoa v Wales 2012? Samoan team full of NZ born or raised players eligible for the ABs. Glad that NZ could help out our PI brothers like that.

"... don't mind though, if it means they can beat the likes of Wales." I've been a Wales supporter for 60 years and first played rugby in the valleys in the '50s. Back then Wales v NZ was a real contest with mutual respect between both sets of fans. Over the years that's changed, both the contest and the mutual respect. It's a shame, and I can't decide which is worse - the whingeing of some Wales supporters or the arrogance of some NZ fans.

Wales became a joke was the problem. Hard to respect a team who can't stay with 50 points.

Scratch is Welsh, thought I'd make my point relevant to his team so he could have a think about it.

I only started having pops at welsh rugby when two welsh posters on here had a nasty personal vendetta against NZ culture a few months back. Looks like it's continuing. Before then, I couldn't care less about wales, which is not really the mutual respect you speak of. But I do have a vague understanding of our rugby history.

Sorry if that's arrogant.

Sheer unadulterated arrogance

The Pacific island Nations have supplied New Zealand with numerous stars over the years but now the boot is on the other foot and Hansen has got all sulky.

Telling a player he MIGHT play for the All Blacks and therefore he must not explore other options to pursue international rugby is the epitome of arrogance.

In pro rugby this decision is a business one as much as anything else. Rugby players are commodities now and this amateurish nonsense about pursuing dreams is emotional blackmail and frankly below Hansen.

How will NZ manage their stated aim to cultivate talent from the Pacific islands while also bemoaning talent leaving their own shores to puruse their careers elsewhere.

I don't agree with the prospect of barbarian national sides and the 3 year rule should be changed to country of birth….wonder if the NZRFU would support that?

GloriousEmpire wrote:Wales became a joke was the problem. Hard to respect a team who can't stay with 50 points.

Where as you are a joke in its self which is remarkable considering the standard of NZ comedy. You only beaten us by 50 points or more once by the way which makes you more foolish really. Arrogance at it's very best and falling flat on his ar$e again  

ebop wrote:Scratch is Welsh, thought I'd make my point relevant to his team so he could have a think about it.

I only started having pops at welsh rugby when two welsh posters on here had a nasty personal vendetta against NZ culture a few months back. Looks like it's continuing. Before then, I couldn't care less about wales, which is not really the mutual respect you speak of. But I do have a vague understanding of our rugby history.

Sorry if that's arrogant.

"Sorry if that's arrogant." Why do you say that? Why include yourself in my mention of "the arrogance of some NZ fans"?

I was trying to be fair in mentioning the whingeing of some Welsh supporters and the arrogance of some NZ fans. Anyone with the slightest interest in international rugby knows that both those things exist.  These forums show it.  I said it was a shame and couldn't decide which was worse. You were not mentioned.

Mutual respect did exist, believe me, whether or not you personally recall it, but it's more or less disappeared. Due to the match results between Wales and NZ since the '60s it's gradually been replaced by something less palatable. To me it's regrettable. That's all.

Well, looking at it from NZ's point of view, if you grew up watching your side completely destroy another its harder to show that side respect.

Before an Englishman, Welshman, Irishman, Saffa, Aussie or Kiwi give up on playing for their country they SHOULD exhaust all avenues before taking the easy way out and playing for someone else.

These guys are competitors, I bet a chap like Gareth never ran around a rugby pitched aged 8 pretending to play for Wales, thats not an insult, its just probably true.

Its probably their ultimate goal, everything to have worked for to have pulled on a AB jersey. Saying a guy who starts for his strong SR team each week aged 22 and has already won the title with them should give that up because there are at the moment better players in the position is simply laughable.

How many of us wrote of Mike Brown??? Most and if you're not a quins fan, probably all.

The guy 2 years back was probably behind Foden, Goode, Armitage even Cipriani as a potential 15.

Now look at him, 6N player of the year and being heralded as the form 15 in the world and he got his break aged 28.
Should he have given up and cashed in on his Scottish, Italian, Canadian granny just to experience test rugby? Please... thats the losers way out.

Even a guy like Sean Maitland should have waited it out longer.

fa0019 wrote:These guys are competitors, I bet a chap like Gareth never ran around a rugby pitched aged 8 pretending to play for Wales, thats not an insult, its just probably true.

You never know, guys like Simon G despite being born in England and never having lived in Ireland played for Ireland because that was the only country he ever wanted to represent. Would anyone dare say to his face he wasnt an Irish man? I seriously doubt it.

Anscombe's mum is Welsh so that isnt much different to Simon G who only had one Irish parent.

Same with the Easterby brothers whose father is English and mother Irish. They could have played for England, Wales or Ireland but choose Ireland.

Sometimes you feel more of a connection to your spiritual home.

A Kiwi, Saffa and Aussie walks into a bar in Melbourne, the Aussie says he is tired of playing against Saffa's and Kiwi's and he is moving to Europe.

The Saffa and Kiwi start to laugh with abandonment.

Aussie asks "Why you laughing"

Saffa says to him, we're your team mates in France mate. Didn't you know?

Toulon are taking the pi$$. Cant stand them. There should be a cap on foreign players. 3 per team 5 per squad. Euro comp would be no worse for it.

I hope young Anscombe does make the Wales team ( his dad would be so proud) if he sees Wales being his opportunity to play International Rugby, then he should take and make the most of that opportunity.

Lots of Kiwis who are very good players never get to play international rugby because they arent able to make the All Blacks, yet we see many very average players from other countries get test caps.

aucklandlaurie wrote: I hope young Anscombe does make the Wales team ( his dad would be so proud) if he sees Wales being his opportunity to play International Rugby, then he should take and make the most of that opportunity.

Lots of Kiwis who are very good players never get to play international rugby because they arent able to make the All Blacks, yet we see many very average players from other countries get test caps.

Couldnt help yourself? A little arrogant?

Isnt it his mother who is Welsh?

i can understand why Hansen is peeved. Wales with Anscombe would be twice the team they are now. Of course he wants to prevent that so will pressure the boy not to go.

Gatland knows this too. And given he is in charge of Wales thru the Japan RWC2019, he is doing some long range planning.

All makes sense. But these residency things are a bit ridiculous. it must be 5 years minimum. 3 years is just too short.

Anscombe had to check whether he is welsh.

Sums it up really.

quinsforever wrote:i can understand why Hansen is peeved. Wales with Anscombe would be twice the team they are now. Of course he wants to prevent that so will pressure the boy not to go.

Gatland knows this too. And given he is in charge of Wales thru the Japan RWC2019, he is doing some long range planning.

All makes sense. But these residency things are a bit ridiculous. it must be 5 years minimum. 3 years is just too short.

Residency rules are a different discussion, Anscombe is half Welsh.

It's not residency based quins. He could be selected to play for Wales tomorrow, he qualifies through his mum.

Gareth Anscombe: dad, am I Welsh?

Dad: dunno son, ask your mum

GunsGerms wrote:Toulon are taking the pi$$. Cant stand them. There should be a cap on foreign players. 3 per team 5 per squad. Euro comp would be no worse for it.

yawn.

and all clubs should look like your provinces.

toulons fans love their club. as do their sponsors. thats why they make EUR9m per annum from sponsors and advertisers. i suspect they get behind their club when they are winning. bit like leinster, eh?

Notch wrote:It's not residency based quins. He could be selected to play for Wales tomorrow, he qualifies through his mum.

missed that. so he could start playing for Wales immediately? no wonder Gatland is chomping at the bit...

quinsforever wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Toulon are taking the pi$$. Cant stand them. There should be a cap on foreign players. 3 per team 5 per squad. Euro comp would be no worse for it.

yawn.

and all clubs should look like your provinces.

toulons fans love their club. as do their sponsors. thats why they make EUR9m per annum from sponsors and advertisers. i suspect they get behind their club when they are winning. bit like leinster, eh?

Go to bed if you are tired. Your comments re Leinster show how dumb you are really.

If everyone was like our provinces, European rugby would be in a much better place. Toulon being successful doesn't mean much if it damages France and damages rugby in other nations. Their success just comes at the expense of others. The player drain affecting a lot of rugby nations is a real problem, as is the number of non French qualified players at the top clubs in the Top14. It might lead to one club being successful but it damages a lot more sides than it benefits.

Toulon is a particularly crazy example because they have quality homegrown players who have to leave because they can't make the team ahead of imports and they excel for other sides.

jeez. the sport is either professional or its not. you cant be half-pregnant. ireland have been amongst the biggest beneficiaries thus far of professionalism at club and international level. if that changes as the money increases in the game then i'm sorry but thats just tough. you cant hold back the tide just cause you really like where it is just at this moment in time.

GunsGerms wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote: I hope young Anscombe does make the Wales team ( his dad would be so proud) if he sees Wales being his opportunity to play International Rugby, then he should take and make the most of that opportunity.

Lots of Kiwis who are very good players never get to play international rugby because they arent able to make the All Blacks, yet we see many very average players from other countries get test caps.

Couldnt help yourself? A little arrogant?

Isnt it his mother who is Welsh?

Dont get all upset Gunsgerms, While young Anscombe is busy fixing Welsh Rugby his old man is trying his best fix Irish rugby, you should be grateful to the contribution us Kiwis make to your rugby.

You seem quite bitter Laurie?

Marc Anscombe is just Ulster coach. The real messiah is Joe Schmidt, who lets face has worked in Ireland and France longer than he has in NZ at this stage.

Ill give NZ credit for him but I wouldnt be surprised if the majority of Kiwis dont even know who he is.

GunsGerms wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Toulon are taking the pi$$. Cant stand them. There should be a cap on foreign players. 3 per team 5 per squad. Euro comp would be no worse for it.

yawn.

and all clubs should look like your provinces.

toulons fans love their club. as do their sponsors. thats why they make EUR9m per annum from sponsors and advertisers. i suspect they get behind their club when they are winning. bit like leinster, eh?

Go to bed if you are tired. Your comments re Leinster show how dumb you are really.

nothing controversial in what i said. success begets success. Leinster's success drove increasing attendance, bigger stadia, etc, etc. That's exactly what is happening at Toulon. maybe you weren't following Leinster back in the day so here's a bit of perspective for you.

"Before the advent of professionalism in the Irish game, provincial rugby games were generally poorly attended. During most of the 1990s, Leinster matches regularly attracted crowds of about 500 to 2,000.[44] The decision to structure the game professionally via the provincial network through centralised player contracts and the subsequent on-field success achieved by Leinster and the other provinces resulted in a significant increase in support within a decade.[44] Leinster had 3,700 season ticket holders in 2006, double the amount of the previous season.[44] Leinster were the best supported team in the PRO12 for the 2006–07, 2007–08 and 2011–12 seasons. Leinster's supporters were named as 'Player of the Month' for April 2009 following their support in the Heineken Cup Quarter Final against Harlequins at The Stoop.[45] Leinster's average crowd numbers have risen considerably in recent years from 3,926 during the first season of the PRO12, to the current PRO12 average of 18,682.[46] Leinster currently have roughly 12,500 season ticket holders.[47]"

and as for calling me dumb.   occasionally i am struck dumb by some of your absurd posts though so maybe that counts.

GunsGerms wrote:You seem quite bitter Laurie?

How in Gods name do you arrive at that conclusion GG?

GunsGerms wrote:

fa0019 wrote:These guys are competitors, I bet a chap like Gareth never ran around a rugby pitched aged 8 pretending to play for Wales, thats not an insult, its just probably true.

You never know, guys like Simon G despite being born in England and never having lived in Ireland played for Ireland because that was the only country he ever wanted to represent. Would anyone dare say to his face he wasnt an Irish man? I seriously doubt it.

Anscombe's mum is Welsh so that isnt much different to Simon G who only had one Irish parent.

Same with the Easterby brothers whose father is English and mother Irish. They could have played for England, Wales or Ireland but choose Ireland.

Sometimes you feel more of a connection to your spiritual home.

True but a little different.

Ireland has a huge community in the UK. The close proximity meant that ties remained strong. We grew up watching 6N rugby so whether you were from Ireland or not, watching the Irish team was as familiar as watching that of any other 6N side.
Parents/Grandparents born in Ireland could take their children to Murrayfield, Twickenham etc to see "their" side every other year... when did Wales ever visit NZ??? When we were kids it was probably once every 5 years at best.

Can you buy Wales shirts easily in NZ? Perhaps now you can get them mailed over but Ireland rugby shirts are probably ten a penny in London, Edinburgh during the 6N.  Its a lot easier to support Ireland and Irish teams in the UK then a UK team in the colonies ( ).

How many kiwi kids aged 7-10 are going to get up at 4am with their da to watch his team which your local side spanks in 2nd gear every other year.

Its the same with Kiwi's in the UK I reckon... how many keep on following their SR side religiously, how many wake up at 6am every weekend to watch their SR matches? Perhaps in the first few years but I reckon most would eventually lose contact, watch only highlight shows midweek and probably end up viewing more HC then anything else.

Also in terms of your question about would anyone say it to his Simon G's face? Roy Keane did it to McCarthy.....

Wow Leinster's attendances have risen since their first professional season. You really are a genius Quins.

fa0019 wrote:

True but a little different.

Ireland has a huge community in the UK. The close proximity meant that ties remained strong. We grew up watching 6N rugby so whether you were from Ireland or not, watching the Irish team was as familiar as watching that of any other 6N side.
Parents/Grandparents born in Ireland could take their children to Murrayfield, Twickenham etc to see "their" side every other year... when did Wales ever visit NZ??? When we were kids it was probably once every 5 years at best.

Can you buy Wales shirts easily in NZ? Perhaps now you can get them mailed over but Ireland rugby shirts are probably ten a penny in London, Edinburgh during the 6N.  Its a lot easier to support Ireland and Irish teams in the UK then a UK team in the colonies ( ).

How many kiwi kids aged 7-10 are going to get up at 4am with their da to watch his team which your local side spanks in 2nd gear every other year.

Its the same with Kiwi's in the UK I reckon... how many keep on following their SR side religiously, how many wake up at 6am every weekend to watch their SR matches? Perhaps in the first few years but I reckon most would eventually lose contact, watch only highlight shows midweek and probably end up viewing more HC then anything else.

You are making assumptions though. For all you know the Anscombes could be very proud of their Wlesh heritage. In any case I dont see why he shouldnt play for Wales. If you are eligable for citizenship then I have no issue with it.

No one would really begrudge the likes of Nacewa or any other NZ born Fijian for playing for Fiji so I dont see why it should be different for Anscombe.

It's the grey area between the black and white Guns. It's a type of Hartley vs Waldrom argument (although Waldrom's was a forgotten Grandma). The rules are satisfied but it doesn't take into account whether they consider themselves as English; if it should at all.

What I'm saying Guns comes from experience... my own obviously and that of others. Its difficult for me to being a Scotland supporter because I don't have access to their games half the time especially club rugby. You simply lose touch.... and I'm near in the same time zone.

I now watch SR mainly and CC. Who do I support, its difficult not to support the teams you watch week in week out.

Of the kiwi's/Aussies I know, most of them had the odd English parent/grandparent.... but they never saw themselves as anything but kiwi's/Aussies. Same with South Africans.

Never said he shouldn't be able to play anyhow... rather I doubt he would have dreamt of doing so as a kid. I don't doubt he would be like nearly every other kiwi kid though and dreaming of pulling on a jersey of NZ.