Ulster 2014/2015

First topic message reminder :

Details of pre-season games to confirmed- we take on Exeter Chiefs at Ravenhill on Friday the 22nd August and then travel to Donnybrook to face Leinster on Friday the 29th August. On the transfer front, it seems like our business for the year is concluded. Second row looks strong and our back line is stronger than ever, but there are concerns about our depth in the front row and back row of the pack. A lot depends on Wiehahn Herbst turning out to be a hit and Chris Henry staying fit- our decision to spend a valuable NIQ spot on Louis Ludik and Sean Doyles departure leaves us exposed at open side with two new, extremely untested players in Reidy and Butterworth vying to be Henrys understudy. Rob Herring is another player who needs to avoid injury at all costs. Niall Annett has been allowed to leave along with Brady in recent seasons and the 3rd choice hooker is not obvious. With seedings in Europe determined by league performance, Ulster may very well rue their lack of depth in the forward pack come May.

Players Out
Johann Muller (retired), Paddy Wallace (retired), Stephen Ferris (retired), Chris Cochrane (retired), Chris Farrell (Grenoble), Niall Annett (Worcester), John Afoa (Gloucester), Tom Court (London Irish), James McKinney (Rotherham), David McIlwaine (Rotherham), Paddy McAllister (Aurillac), Sean Doyle (ACT Brumbies), Adam Macklin (Rotherham), Ian Porter (Connacht)

Players In
Franco van der Merwe (Golden Lions), Louis Ludik (Agen), Wiehahn Herbst (Natal Sharks), Ruaidhrí Murphy (ACT Brumbies), Dave Ryan (Zebre), Ian Humphreys (London Irish), Charlie Butterworth (Lansdowne), Sean Reidy (Counties Manukau)

Ulster don't do turbulent off seasons but if we did...

We've also been rocked with the seismic revelation David Humphreys is leaving the province- indeed has already left- for Gloucester. Anscombe was slated to be seeing out the last year of his contract before being quietly let go but the Humphreys bombshell left him as the odd man out, and he's been pushed out the door. The decision was partly because he was hired to work under a Director of Rugby and Ulster are looking for someone with more experience in the market to take on Humphreys role in addition to the coaching responsibilities. As usual, the rumour mill is on overdrive and opinions are polarised- but this is Ulster Rugby after all. Les Kiss is our interim Director of Rugby and it seems Allen Clarke is filling the role of forwards coach in the short term. More changes or appointments could be forthcoming.

If all that wasn't enough we've been dealt a real group of death in the new Champions Cup- double-winners Toulon will brave the Ravenhill roar along with old friends Leicester Tigers and old foes the Scarlets. All in all, this team should be capable of securing a Top 4 finish at the very least in the Pro12 and we need to target the top two, our prospects in Europe look more occluded- it might come down to best runners-up and our pool promises to be tight and competitive.

Opening fixtures

F; Exeter Chiefs (H)
F; Leinster (A)

Pro12; Scarlets (A)
Pro12; Zebre (H)
Pro12; Cardiff Blues (A)
Pro12; Zebre (A)
Pro12; Edinburgh (H)

geoff998rugby wrote:

Again mentioned our new DoR being more hands on with the coaching staff reporting to him.
Got the impression, we will have temporary appointment for 1 year and then a reformed structure for 2015-16

If Logan delivers as well as he speaks we will be fine

geoff would anyone worth having take a temporary appointment or would the carrot be that if they perform they could get the gig full time?

Presumably it would be an internal promotion(s)?

It will be internal to the IRFU

Clarke is seen as favourite - not a great choice to be honest.
Blokes a bit of dick

 ... you better hope those guys don't read this forum Geoff!

Geoff - great stuff (as always), many thanks for the very interesting insight!!

Very relieved about the positive reports on Herbst and vanderMerwe - I suppose the temptation is always to look for the 'big name', but the reality is that Ulster (and other Irish teams) will have to be very smart at identifying talent that fits their exact needs. The 'hit rate' on overseas signings has to be very high.

I think all keen followers of Ulster would agree that Muller, Afoa and Court were no longer playing at the very high levels they previously had (for various reasons) and that now was the right time for the province to look for alternatives.

No mention of Murphy? While I acknowledge that Black had surpassed Court last season, I still think he represents a drop in quality compared to other 'top' European & Irish teams. As a 2nd string/replacement, he's excellent - but as a starter, he's limited. I'm hoping that Murphy will make the no.1 jersey his own.

Also, very positive on the financials. Any idea how much we're getting from Kingspan for the naming rights? I was concerned that a ten year deal always looks good at first glance, but then you need to consider the inflationary effect ten years hence (e.g. if it's a £20m deal, then £2.0m per year is pretty good in 2014, but a lot less so in 2024...). If the forecast is for a £7m profit over the next three years, then how is that going to be invested? I certainly hope that Ulster Rugby is not being run to deliver a profit for its shareholders (i.e. predominately, the IRFU), but more like a not-for-profit organisation, whereby any profits generated from day-to-day trading activities are fully reinvested back into the provincial set-up (i.e. a combination of grass-roots development and on-field personnel).

Finally, when you mention that the DoR role will be more 'hands on', what exactly does that mean? Surely Humphreys was very involved  in all aspects of the playing & coaching setup at Ravenhill? After all, he sat directly behind Anscombe at every game (as I mentioned in an earlier post, that could not be good... after all, who wants their boss looking over their shoulder at work, all day, every day?!?!). I'd prefer an Irish DoR with a mixed-bag of a coaching staff so that our players are exposed to the very best of northern hemisphere and southern hemisphere techniques, but with the strategic agenda set by a leader who inherently understands the Irish/Ulster game.

Thanks again!

rodders wrote: ... you better hope those guys don't read this forum Geoff!

I thought of that after I posted but the good news there are some big guys at Ulster who agree with me - mind you they wont come out and say it publically just in case he is their new boss   

Try and cover the points made

UlsterinKildare wrote:

No mention of Murphy? While I acknowledge that Black had surpassed Court last season, I still think he represents a drop in quality compared to other 'top' European & Irish teams. As a 2nd string/replacement, he's excellent - but as a starter, he's limited. I'm hoping that Murphy will make the no.1 jersey his own.

Murphy is seen as no more than a decent squad player - I think that Balck, Warwick and Murphy are all seen as vying for the LH position but that Black has earnet the right to start as No 1

UlsterinKildare wrote:
Also, very positive on the financials. Any idea how much we're getting from Kingspan for the naming rights? I was concerned that a ten year deal always looks good at first glance, but then you need to consider the inflationary effect ten years hence (e.g. if it's a £20m deal, then £2.0m per year is pretty good in 2014, but a lot less so in 2024...). If the forecast is for a £7m profit over the next three years, then how is that going to be invested? I certainly hope that Ulster Rugby is not being run to deliver a profit for its shareholders (i.e. predominately, the IRFU), but more like a not-for-profit organisation, whereby any profits generated from day-to-day trading activities are fully reinvested back into the provincial set-up (i.e. a combination of grass-roots development and on-field personnel).

No figures for naming rights but I've heard 5 million over 10 years.
As I said he also mentioned Leinster and Munster have not been able to get anything close to that.
Leinster clearly have issue re its not their ground.
The Murrayfield figure in the press is way wide of the mark apparantly
Also said one of the highest figures in Europe - I think he said top 4
The profit I believe is deemed to be necessary to increase wages so that players dont go abroad and stay in Ireland.
Sounds to me they have an expectation the English salary cap will go up significantly in the next few years and we need this extra to compete.

UlsterinKildare wrote:
Finally, when you mention that the DoR role will be more 'hands on', what exactly does that mean? Surely Humphreys was very involved  in all aspects of the playing & coaching setup at Ravenhill? After all, he sat directly behind Anscombe at every game (as I mentioned in an earlier post, that could not be good... after all, who wants their boss looking over their shoulder at work, all day, every day?!?!). I'd prefer an Irish DoR with a mixed-bag of a coaching staff so that our players are exposed to the very best of northern hemisphere and southern hemisphere techniques, but with the strategic agenda set by a leader who inherently understands the Irish/Ulster game.

[/quote]

Humphries does not coach the team or pick the team.
My take is the new DoR will.
Seems to me they will, effectively, be merging the current roles of DoR and Anscombe.
That is what Cheika and Sexton wanted but didn't get.

Why doesn't a 'hands on' DoR just call himself Coach?  I mean it does seem to me that some DoRs are wish-I-was coaches without possibly having the cojones to actually call themselves coaches and go do the job they fantasise about doing.

So if a new DoR at Ulster also functions as Head Coach, then he'll be Head Coach and he won't need the extra title.

Well Logan has said a new coach in a recent interview - I suspect that was a slip of the tongue because it makes it obvious Anscombe is going.

I think he is using the term new DoR now just so it is not too obvious we are in fact getting a new coach in place of Anscombe - not fooling anyone though.

If a new or interim DoR is appointed with a hands on coaching brief then what's the point of Anscombe. In that instance we would be better off getting rid as any new appointment over his turf will undeniably lead to friction

Stand, geoffs already mentioned that there will be an interim appointment and then a new setup in 2015/16

Stand the interim DoR will be hands off for a year due to the unexpected departure of Humphreys.

The view seems to be lets not panic and rather than rush things finding a new DoR/Coach quickly lets leave Anscombe in place to see how his existing contract.

After the World Cup the pool of talent available will be bigger

Ah right that makes more sense. Fair enough

Have to say that was a very interesting Read what Logan said Geoff, thanks for that pal. On a side note I work directly for Sky and today the 2nd in command to Barney Francis (the director of sky sports) was in the office to help our agents sell sky sports by giving them a talk and doing some incentives etc. Anyways was able to chat to him at lunchtime and got talking about the Pro 12 deal and he had same interesting things to say. He said initially Sky bought the rights for a number of reasons primarily that they wanted to be able to say they are the biggest coverage of Rugby after BT had made such a start to it's sport channel. It was sen as something that would appeal to the hardcore rugby fan however in light of recent success with the GAA Sky are now seeing that this could have some real value to them, they have seen that there is alarge Irish base in the UK as well as the obvious Welsh and Scotish fanbase and they think this mixed with the hardcore English fan could be of value they also think that they can capitalise on the viewership and excitement around the GAA and use this to create excitement around the Pro 12, he has said that plans currently stand for Sky to go hard at it from the word go on the pro 12 with Advertising and helping market the league.
Interestingly I asked what he thought about a new sponsor and what would it mean if it was BT for example and he laughed it off at that stage I wasn't sure if it was a nervous laugh or a laugh of don't worry we will make sure that doesn't happen.
Have to say he was a very nice bloke as well and as you would expect I guess very passionate about sports

Good man Thom, interesting stuff. Maybe I don't watch enough TV, or pop off to top up my beer glass at the ads, but I haven't seen any promotion yet for the pro12 - in fact I wouldn't even know sky will be showing games but for coming on here.

In fact I still have no idea what way the pro12 will be broadcast - are all Ulster's home games on BBCNI still? I tell you I'd be lost without Penfros TV guide....

So they're going to market us (Pro12) as the cream of the European Leagues?? ....if peoples want to watch Super 15 style rugby, that is.............................................   *gulp*.

No pressure...    Now the fun starts in trying to live up to the image Sky will try to sell!

Incidently, already there are grumbles about the way Sky is pushing themselves on GAA.  It might ease down in time but they'd be wise to thread carefully as they have really no idea how much dog is in an angry kingdom of GAA.  
There was talk that they were wanting to stop the pitch 'invasions' at the end of their televised games.  Sanitising the images of safety perhaps to tie in with British concerns over these issues in other field games.  But the kid invasions to back slap their heros is all part of the cultural community aspect of the GAA itself and there'll be a big growl if Sky seek to change the ground rules of the very sport itself.

And so they should - GAA makes no sense, sky want to be bringing in a handball rule for gaelic football for a start.

No, I think a certain proportion of Ulsters games will go to Sky. I don't know how many, I think they will just pick which ones suit them. As far as I know they have first pick of the games but they can NOT have both games between two teams. i.e. if Ulster vs Leinster in on Sky, Leinster vs Ulster must be FTA.

They don't know the "f**kin' animals" they're dealing with here, rodders. Sky just don't know the kind of people they're in bed with right now. Rude awakening awaits them if they start murmuring about making players pull up their socks or force arm tattoos onto farmers to glamourise the product!!!!

Interesting, Good for the club to grow their brand and fan base I suppose....nice to get a break from Watson, Field and McWhirter having the exact same half time conversation every week....

The thing is that the kick-off times for Sky are on at 3pm on a Saturday. I suppose I might be in a minority of hating that as I work most Saturdays... certainly its easier if you live outside Belfast but the traditional Friday night slot doesn't clash with peoples club commitments.

Another point is I would assume that sky will be insistent that for televised games full teams are put out?

If not I can't see the deal lasting so that could present a challenge to the current player welfare policy status quo for the Irish sides.

Notch wrote:The thing is that the kick-off times for Sky are on at 3pm on a Saturday.

Hmm I would think they might not want to pitch the pro12 against the AP if they want to pick up neutrals in England. They might end up pushing some weird schedule the way they do with Rugby League. I' have hoped this would all have been discussed in the negotiations.

From a marketing perspective it is important that consistent kick off times are used across the league. They might go with Fridays and Sundays, which would work well for us.

rodders wrote:Good man Thom, interesting stuff. Maybe I don't watch enough TV, or pop off to top up my beer glass at the ads, but I haven't seen any promotion yet for the pro12 - in fact I wouldn't even know sky will be showing games but for coming on here.

In fact I still have no idea what way the pro12 will be broadcast - are all Ulster's home games on BBCNI still? I tell you I'd be lost without Penfros TV guide....

rodders its all in the coverage on Sky Sports News as a starting point, they announced it on air and now they have it on the ticker etc. It's subtle but they did the same with F1 and GAA.

Changes with Sky Sports new channel dedicated to european football may mean a greater opportunity for other sports to be showcased

rodders wrote:Another point is I would assume that sky will be insistent that for televised games full teams are put out?

If not I can't see the deal lasting so that could present a challenge to the current player welfare policy status quo for the Irish sides.

You really think they'd 'demand' that? If that's part of any contract with the IRFU then it's another money grabbing footshot by them. Coaches and IRFU must continue to control the organisation of rugby in this country down to the decisions of who plays when - not broadcasting Interest groups (whether they be Sky or BT)

Rodders you are quite right they haven't promoted any of it yet, the chances are it won't be promoted until about a month before the new season, it's just to early at this stage.
As for the demanding teams that just wont happen Sky however would pick the games where they believe the best teams are likely to play and that are going to give them the best games to watch.
I wish the fella was still around and I could ask him all these questions too although he might think I was a bit too interested if I did that.
AT the minute Sky is pushing the new Football channel which launches in August because of the offers they have which is a basic attempt to do something opposite from BT where if you have sports you get the internet free instead of the other way round and because of the World cup. Once that channel actually launches there will be much more time put into other projects such as promoting the rugby. They are not directly marketing it v Aviva and the Champions Cup rugby will be marketed as the best rugby in Europe but they are using this as Sky having another top league like the Super 14 and rugby championship and Internationals to make them the top rugby broadcasters. As such they will do there best to market the Pro 12 as a top league which lets be honest it has never really had with BBC etc
I tried to see who would be the commentators etc but he did say that had not been decided yet

As I understand the Sky deal they will broadcast 2 or 3 homes for every team in the league, including the Italians.
6 teams will have 3 homes televised, that includes Ulster, and 6  will have 2 televised.

Those game will not be on other channels.
Sky cant broadcast a reverse fixture i.e. if they take Ulster v Leinster they cant have Leinster v Ulster.

Of the 30 games televised 22 will be Saturday afternoon 8 will be Friday evening.
I suspect, but don't know, that Ulster will be at least 2 of those Friday games.

Sky will have no say re selection but I do expect that the International weekends will be weekends they don't televise games.

That sounds about right to me Geoff it was always going to be a fine balancing act Sky want the best games obviously but Pro 12 want all teams to get exposure. Sky will also realise the value of having games on free tv too as a promotion tool for the league which helps gets more people watching the league and helps them in turn but without missing out on the big games. It's a big balancing act but I am optimistic that at the minute it will be good for the league, the extra money will certainly help in relation to keeping the competition up with English and French clubs in terms of holding onto our players.

Some good news at last.

Seems that the Declan Fitzpatrick problem was caffeine related.

He normally doesn't drink any caffeine drink (prefers his liquid colder and clearer   )
Before the game seeing as everyone else seem to have a caffeine based drink before the games he decided to give it a go.
He was bouncing off the dressing room walls prior to the game.
Got on and his heart started racing big time.

A very embarrassed and very relieved young man.
Apparantly the early signs were on the surface the same as Simon Best and naturally the club, and the player, feared the worst.

Needless to say he is taking some serious dogs abuse from his team mates now   

Great news though we can safely add him to the squad so 7 props for next who could play for the 1st XV + McCall + Ross who may be able to.

Thats great news for both Deccie and Ulster!!   

Thats a big, big relief to hear to be honest; after what happened with Simon Best, I really did fear the worst! So very relieved.

I remember a few years ago I tried to change from black tea to green tea.  Forget the brand but within days, after about 3 or 4 cups a day, I started to feel very strange in a very bad way.  A very tight chest, feeling constricted, mood off - scary.  Put up with for a few more days to see would it ease off but the peculiar feeling remained and I stopped taking the tea.  Back to normal the next day.

I've actually taken green tea since on and off and no repeat of that weird feeling but it must have been a particularly strong brand that caused the issues.  I have a feeling these varied caffeine options that exist today, both in sporting terms and leisure terms, play a role to some degree in some of these 'events' that seem to happen more and more now with young people during sporting activity.

Green tea is toxic in large doses. Very good for you in small doses.

Caffeine is a stimulant. If you're not used to it then, consuming a drink with a large amount of it in it is not good for your health. My wife does a lot of running and always never take anything on race day you haven't taken before.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Green tea is toxic in large doses.

I wasn't injecting it or smoking it Sam Just drinking about 3 cups a day. Whatever the brand was, it maybe was a toxic concentration of the stuff.

Green tea doesn't have any caffeine so perhaps you are sensative to some other ingredient in it Fly. Are you sure it was green tea you bought

It's a big relief to know big Deccie got the all clear. Another quality prop is feeling like a bit of a luxury now. Just keep him away from Darren Cave and his esspressos

Its funny I know we have lost Afoa and Court but in some ways we are in a much stronger position in terms of depth.
We probably have 7 props I would be ok with playing Pro12 matches

Herbst, Fitzpatrick, Back, Lutton, Warwick, Ryan, Murphy

+Ross and McCall as back up

Last year we only had 5
Afoa, Court, Fitzpatrick, Lutton, Black

with Warwick, Macklin, McCall as backup (you cant count McAllister and Ross who missed the season through injury)

Thats an improvement

Pete330v2 wrote:Green tea doesn't have any caffeine so perhaps you are sensative to some other ingredient in it Fly. Are you sure it was green tea you bought

It's a big relief to know big Deccie got the all clear. Another quality prop is feeling like a bit of a luxury now. Just keep him away from Darren Cave and his esspressos

Last comment on Tea and sorry for including a discussion of it here!  

But Pete...don't you go near tea!  That's my only advice to you.  It's Herbal Tea that's got no Caffeine in it, mate.  That's bloomin' Herbal Tea you're on about.  Green tea has caffeine... it's the same tea leaves as black tea only less 'rusted' to use a less than scientific description.  Green tea can actually have both more or less caffeine than black tea depending on the type you get, how you brew it etc etc.

PS - I'm now selling the stuff I drank on the corner every Wednesday Night.  Not cheap but just to cover me expenses and Mansions and Mercs and Molls and that kinda stuff.... 

SecretFly wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:Green tea doesn't have any caffeine so perhaps you are sensative to some other ingredient in it Fly. Are you sure it was green tea you bought

It's a big relief to know big Deccie got the all clear. Another quality prop is feeling like a bit of a luxury now. Just keep him away from Darren Cave and his esspressos

Last comment on Tea and sorry for including a discussion of it here!  

But Pete...don't you go near tea!  That's my only advice to you.  It's Herbal Tea that's got no Caffeine in it, mate.  That's bloomin' Herbal Tea you're on about.  Green tea has caffeine... it's the same tea leaves as black tea only less 'rusted' to use a less than scientific description.  Green tea can actually have both more or less caffeine than black tea depending on the type you get, how you brew it etc etc.

PS - I'm now selling the stuff I drank on the corner every Wednesday Night.  Not cheap but just to cover me expenses and Mansions and Mercs and Molls and that kinda stuff.... 

Oh god aye it's the herbal stuff alright. My misses is the one drinks it to avoid caffeine and for some reason I had it in my head it was the green stuff she was on. I'm a freshly ground strong enough to stand on coffee man myself.

The summer of drama continues; Mark Anscombe is gone, he's left or been pushed. Les Kiss is our interim Director of Rugby!

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/News/LatestNews/TabId/149/ArtMID/793/ArticleID/1604/Ulster-Rugby-Update.aspx

Can't say I'm too disappointed.

 

I'm not disappointed but it does seem a mess. We can't start the season like this

I know he is not exactly the most reliable but Mulligan seems to suggest "pushed"!

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/sport/rugby/mark-anscombe-future-in-doubt-with-ulster-rugby-1-6150467

Definitely pushed - been a dead man walking for about 3 months now.

It has become increasingly obvious that he had to go - bad karma has been coming out of the woodwork.

As a mention he had his clique - also seems Muller didn't have much time for him either but was just too professional to rock the boat.
I suspect after he decided to retire he provided some home truths for Logan and the rest.

Standulstermen wrote:I'm not disappointed but it does seem a mess. We can't start the season like this

Like what Stand.
It may be messy but Anscombe had to go - lot of bad feeling about.

At least, in Les Kiss, we have an experienced operator, and given Humphreys unexpected departure, he is better than we could have hoped for.

Yep, I would expect that he has been pushed and I think it is more or less the right decision. I think as soon as Humphreys was confirmed to be leaving we would have had to have recruited an interim Director of Rugby, whilst searching for a long-term candidate, and almost every candidate would have wanted control over training and selection hence making Anscombes role rather obsolete. The structure between Humphreys and Anscombe was fairly unique and Anscombe was signed specifically to work under a non-coaching Director of Rugby. He would not have been trusted to take over Humphreys responsibilities so as soon as Humph dropped his bombshell it was only a matter of time.

Les Kiss is a decent short-term successor, my only concern being the time he will spend away with Ireland. That aside I'm happier with Kiss as DoR than I would be with Anscombe as head coach and no DoR. With Neil Doak, Allen Clarke and Jonny Bell around I think we have enough experience to see us through this season.

Well if he has his clique you would hope the careers of those guys (and I'm thinking of the two kiwis) isn't in jeopardy

Geoff
Irrespective of Anscombe a double jobbing les kiss isn't the bloody answer. He couldn't double job when both his tasks were with Ireland I don't see how two different teams will improve his focus

To be honest, I'm actually more optimistic about next year than I was.

Anscombe had to go - simples.
We let a cancer grow within the club under McCall (not his fault) and it nearly destroyed us.
Not saying it is as bad as that, it isn't or anywhere near, but still burst the boil now before it gets worse.

This is an interim measure.
It has come to the fore by Humphreys leaving
He made a mistake giving Anscombe an extra year and he knows it.

We will have a new coaching structure in place next year - there is an obvious gap for a forwards coach/assistance coach.

Dont be surprise if someone makes a swift return  

McLaughlin?

I'm not against getting shot of Anscombe in the sense like you say, It's better to get our structures sorted quickly but I'm less impressed by the interim measure albeit it depends entirely on how long 'interim' means

To infinity and beyond?