Ulster 2014/2015

by **Notch** Mon 19 May 2014, 8:16 pm

First topic message reminder :

Details of pre-season games to confirmed- we take on Exeter Chiefs at Ravenhill on Friday the 22nd August and then travel to Donnybrook to face Leinster on Friday the 29th August. On the transfer front, it seems like our business for the year is concluded. Second row looks strong and our back line is stronger than ever, but there are concerns about our depth in the front row and back row of the pack. A lot depends on Wiehahn Herbst turning out to be a hit and Chris Henry staying fit- our decision to spend a valuable NIQ spot on Louis Ludik and Sean Doyles departure leaves us exposed at open side with two new, extremely untested players in Reidy and Butterworth vying to be Henrys understudy. Rob Herring is another player who needs to avoid injury at all costs. Niall Annett has been allowed to leave along with Brady in recent seasons and the 3rd choice hooker is not obvious. With seedings in Europe determined by league performance, Ulster may very well rue their lack of depth in the forward pack come May.

Players Out
Johann Muller (retired), Paddy Wallace (retired), Stephen Ferris (retired), Chris Cochrane (retired), Chris Farrell (Grenoble), Niall Annett (Worcester), John Afoa (Gloucester), Tom Court (London Irish), James McKinney (Rotherham), David McIlwaine (Rotherham), Paddy McAllister (Aurillac), Sean Doyle (ACT Brumbies), Adam Macklin (Rotherham), Ian Porter (Connacht)

Players In
Franco van der Merwe (Golden Lions), Louis Ludik (Agen), Wiehahn Herbst (Natal Sharks), Ruaidhrí Murphy (ACT Brumbies), Dave Ryan (Zebre), Ian Humphreys (London Irish), Charlie Butterworth (Lansdowne), Sean Reidy (Counties Manukau)

Ulster don't do turbulent off seasons but if we did...

We've also been rocked with the seismic revelation David Humphreys is leaving the province- indeed has already left- for Gloucester. Anscombe was slated to be seeing out the last year of his contract before being quietly let go but the Humphreys bombshell left him as the odd man out, and he's been pushed out the door. The decision was partly because he was hired to work under a Director of Rugby and Ulster are looking for someone with more experience in the market to take on Humphreys role in addition to the coaching responsibilities. As usual, the rumour mill is on overdrive and opinions are polarised- but this is Ulster Rugby after all. Les Kiss is our interim Director of Rugby and it seems Allen Clarke is filling the role of forwards coach in the short term. More changes or appointments could be forthcoming.

If all that wasn't enough we've been dealt a real group of death in the new Champions Cup- double-winners Toulon will brave the Ravenhill roar along with old friends Leicester Tigers and old foes the Scarlets. All in all, this team should be capable of securing a Top 4 finish at the very least in the Pro12 and we need to target the top two, our prospects in Europe look more occluded- it might come down to best runners-up and our pool promises to be tight and competitive.

Opening fixtures

F; Exeter Chiefs (H)
F; Leinster (A)

Pro12; Scarlets (A)
Pro12; Zebre (H)
Pro12; Cardiff Blues (A)
Pro12; Zebre (A)
Pro12; Edinburgh (H)

by **Notch** Mon 30 Jun 2014, 5:21 pm

A year or less

by MrsP Mon 30 Jun 2014, 5:26 pm

So...

Return from...

France?

The Cape?

by **Notch** Mon 30 Jun 2014, 5:27 pm

My money is on Les Kiss to take the job on for one year and then Matt Sexton as Director of Rugby. That is purely a guess on my part though.

by Guest Mon 30 Jun 2014, 5:27 pm

Not surprised at all that Anscombe is gone, and neither am I disappointed. Muller had met up with Logan twice before his departure. Oh to be a fly on the wall.
I'm happy enough with Kiss as interim DoR, and very happy that UR have taken decisive action now, rather than allowing things to drag on into the new season.

So many changes in a year. It's all very exciting

Onwards and upwards.

by clivemcl Mon 30 Jun 2014, 6:07 pm

geoff998rugby wrote:

Dont be surprise if someone makes a swift return

If the other forum is anything to go by, the swift return Geoff hints at could be Muller...

I'm not saying anyone (including Geoff knows anything) but it has been mentioned. And as Munchkin said, Muller had two meetings with Logan before he left....

Whistle

by Standulstermen Mon 30 Jun 2014, 7:36 pm

Surely muller wanted to go back and run his farm. That was the whole point of retiring. I would be delighted from a personal point of view if it was muller. In terms of the calibre of man he is there is none higher. Hopefully that will/would translate to coaching

by marty2086 Mon 30 Jun 2014, 7:49 pm

Stand was Muller not already defacto forwards coach before retiring?

He did say if his wife had her way they would be staying, maybe with the changes he'll want to stay too but any long term appointment may not want him on the staff

by clivemcl Mon 30 Jun 2014, 8:07 pm

If someone's father was getting older and could not run the farm any longer I guess the son would either take over, or go home and help decide what else would happen. Either way, time at home may be required, but perhaps only to 'put things in order' to allow a longer stay in Ulster. Sure, bring the parents Johann! I'm sure they will like it here too! thumbsup

by Standulstermen Mon 30 Jun 2014, 8:07 pm

Anscombe was a forwards coach I thought. No doubt muller helped in this area but I can't see Anscombe relinquishing control of his specialised area

by MrsP Mon 30 Jun 2014, 9:20 pm

In the interview before he left did Johann not say he was NOT leaving because of the farm but because of his body?

Headscratch

Perfectly happy to conceed that I may have made that up.

by MrsP Mon 30 Jun 2014, 9:32 pm

I didn't make it up!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjav3p68ObY

by The Great Aukster Mon 30 Jun 2014, 10:32 pm

Les Kiss is well liked by guys like Best and Bowe who have worked with him. Kiss also likes Doak and gets on with him, so the post Humphreys/Anscombe apocalypse isn't as disastrous as it could have been.

by **Notch** Mon 30 Jun 2014, 10:43 pm

Yeah Johann said he would love to play on for another 10 years if he could, he wishes he was 24 again and he fell in love with Ulster- but that doesn't mean he necessarily wants to come back as a coach. Maybe he does someday, I don't know. He's still trying to deal with retiring from playing which is hard enough.

by blackcanelion Tue 01 Jul 2014, 12:03 am

Could anyone give us a short analysis on why you think Anscombe's going. It sounds like he's being pushed and may have some man management issues. If I'm reading it right.

by clivemcl Tue 01 Jul 2014, 7:27 am

Pretty much. He's reported to have been very harsh on some young players. He's reported to be favouring Payne's ambitions to play 13, when we already have lots of talent at 13. He's reported to be very pally with a select group of players.

It was expected that eventually Ulster would get a head coach which is a singular role that takes on the duties previously shared by Anscombe and Humphries. When Humphries jumped ship, it meant either going on with an interim DOR, but instead we are now effectively getting an interim Head Coach. It speeds up the process of looking ahead and recruiting.

by Sin é Tue 01 Jul 2014, 7:41 am

Irish Indo saying its player power!

Clive - what is the story with the split? Is the camp split over Payne v Cave for the 13 jersey?

by **Notch** Tue 01 Jul 2014, 7:57 am

Sin é wrote:Irish Indo saying its player power!

Was just about to say I saw that- tallies up with what people are saying about various players being unhappy with him. It seems he's basically fallen out with everybody. If thats true, its a relief he's gone.

by clivemcl Tue 01 Jul 2014, 8:05 am

Sin é wrote:Irish Indo saying its player power!

Clive - what is the story with the split? Is the camp split over Payne v Cave for the 13 jersey?

Havn't heard that exactly Sin E, although, I'd say that those closest to Cave would no doubt feel for him. I think it more general terms some players maybe didn't warm to him.

Some of us debated this not so long ago. Anscombe is quite abrasive - we weren't all convinced this was a bad thing. But perhaps it was becoming problematic in the squad. Some have said Muller wasn't a fan, but kept quiet due to professionalism. But may have called it like it was in conversation with Logan on his way out the door.

by **Notch** Tue 01 Jul 2014, 8:13 am

The thing with Anscombe is it seems that he was very abrasive and critical with some and played favourites with others- which turns people against you for failing to be fair and even-handed. And it would seem he's turned enough people against him in the squad and at a management level to make his position untenable. Besides that, he was never going to be trusted as DoR and any interim appointment in that role would want control of coaching and selection.

by **Notch** Tue 01 Jul 2014, 8:16 am

As for Payne vs Cave wouldn't be convinced that has much to do with it. Since Les Kiss is in the Ireland set-up we are even more likely to see increased co-operation between Ulster and Ireland now and whoever plays 13 will be who the IRFU want to see in that jersey. Which could very easily be Jared Payne.

by Sin é Tue 01 Jul 2014, 8:18 am

clivemcl wrote:
Sin é wrote:Irish Indo saying its player power!

Clive - what is the story with the split? Is the camp split over Payne v Cave for the 13 jersey?

Havn't heard that exactly Sin E, although, I'd say that those closest to Cave would no doubt feel for him. I think it more general terms some players maybe didn't warm to him.

Some of us debated this not so long ago. Anscombe is quite abrasive - we weren't all convinced this was a bad thing. But perhaps it was becoming problematic in the squad. Some have said Muller wasn't a fan, but kept quiet due to professionalism. But may have called it like it was in conversation with Logan on his way out the door.

,
Is Payne liked within the squad? Is it a kiwi (Anscome, Payne, Williams) v Irish v Saffers clique thing? Who were Anscome favourites?

by SecretFly Tue 01 Jul 2014, 8:56 am

You're all too.................. em gullible Wink

This ain't just a rapid (and largely unplanned) changing of the DoR and Coach guard at Ulster......... this is perhaps the most seismic, shuddering, under-the-radar intriguing controversy in Irish rugby for years............. well, since Kidney was forced out anyway. Whistle

Maybe it's because I'm a conspiracy theory affectionado, but I smell any number of possible rats in the ongoings up at Ulster. And actually ol' Teach Joe Schmidt himself might actually be the biggest one. Is Joe showing a ruthless streak that even Sin didn't feel him capable of?

It's just all too neat to say Anscombe, a man who was fed a new contract by a departing DoR, left so suddenly simply because certain players didn't get on with him and perhaps thought he was too friendly with a select few.
Thinking such a thing presents too many spanners in the works of the theory. For one, if the players were having issues with Anscombe and if their opinions held enough sway to have him practically fired out of season, then certainly the players must have had most of their issues with him during the real season itself? They must have communicated those issues to the powers that be then, and they must not have had much power then given that Anscombe was given a contract extension. So the theory is that the power the players didn't have when their issues were most important (ie, in the middle of a serious season) were finally given to them when the season was over, the DoR was gone, some players had left and most of them were on probable holidays?
I don't buy the player power one.

So, Kiss heads up North to divide his Ireland job and become part-time at two jobs? How long is that serviceable in terms of the perfectionism demanded by Joe Schmidt? I think he's made no secret in the past that he wants dedicated coaches - eyes firmly on one job.

Yes, you might argue that Kiss now gets his hands on certain potential Ireland players and gets more time with already 'nailed on' guys. You might argue that such a set up might indeed serve Ireland and Joe better. So, in theory, that's one possible solution involving the hand of Joe. That he's not getting what he wants preparation-wise with the important Ulster backs players (players becoming ever more central to his future thinking) and that he therefore requires and demanded one of his guys to have a more direct involvement in their development.

Maybe.

But it's known too that Schmidt will now be on the look out for a coach to replace Plumtree. So maybe this is all a finely tuned Schmidt/IRFU plan that will eventually see him look for and find not one coach but two. Maybe this is the time chosen to let Kiss retire from the International scene entirely. Afterall, Schmidt had Kiss kinda dropped onto his lap whether he liked it or not based on the complications of that period when Kiss was both a candidate for the main role and actual caretaker too. It seems Kiss was already written down for Schmidt whether he liked it or not. Besides, he became the continuity conduit that Schmidt knew he needed to get up and running as Ireland head Coach.
But now that Schmidt is bedded in, now that he's given the IRFU results before they actually probably exected them, now that his power grows and yes, now that he's been able to analyse everybody more clinically (players and fellow coaches), I have a real suspicion that the IRFU, led by Schmidt's opinions, are now preparing ground for two new Ireland coaches and that Kiss will become permanent Head Coach at Ulster.

My conspiracy theory could be all wrong of course...but, I wouldn't be surprised that Joe is concerned about the demands going into next year and that he might (secretly or otherwise) think Kiss isn't up to them.

by Sin é Tue 01 Jul 2014, 9:06 am

So Fly, you think Schmidt is going down the Eddie O'Sullivan route of control freakery?

You'd think the IRFU learned a lesson there!

(PS, I don't think Joe Schmidt has any reason to dump Kiss considering that a) he has lost his forwards coach in less than a year and b) as head coach he carries the can for the poor performances in Argentina.

by SecretFly Tue 01 Jul 2014, 9:20 am

Sin é wrote:So Fly, you think Schmidt is going down the Eddie O'Sullivan route of control freakery?

You'd think the IRFU learned a lesson there!

(PS, I don't think Joe Schmidt has any reason to dump Kiss considering that a) he has lost his forwards coach in less than a year and b) as head coach he carries the can for the poor performances in Argentina.

Kiss will be scrapped through the "Past Glories No Longer Matter" meat grinder, Sin. Mark my words Wink

He'll be following many coaches through that machine BTW as we all know too well (EOS himself went through it a month ago when Munster didn't want him Wink

), and not just rugby ones. Old Trap went through it too when he made the mistake of thinking he could Italianise Irish players.
Kiss will be sacrificed.... he smells too much of the old Tsarist dynasty that went before. Joe is Putin, a new Tsar with perhaps old freakery ways but with a modern airbrushed feel designed to appeal to the Twitterite generation Wink

by **Notch** Tue 01 Jul 2014, 10:12 am

This isn't an Ireland thread to be crowded with ridiculous speculation and whataboutery you two- keep that confined to the silly season thread. The most likely explanations have nothing to do with Schmidt. Conspiracy theories are just that- speculative .

This wasn't a big surprise to me; after all, we 'knew' all this before yesterday of you take the word of some close to the squad. We knew there were players and coaches who didn't get on with Anscombe. We knew that he was employed under David Humphreys who was in charge of shaping the squad and coaching staff despite not being a hands-on coach as Director of Rugby, and he wouldn't have been first choice but for his willingness to work alongside a DoR with that level of control. Humph leaving was a BIG shock but we knew that whoever replaced him as Director of Rugby would want a hands-on coaching role, would want to be in charge of selection and coaching, and we knew that left Anscombe out in the cold. We knew he was a dead man walking and viewed as not being right for the job- we may not have expected him to be pushed so soon but we knew his days were numbered.

I didn't know he was going to go so soon, I expected him to see out his contract while we looked for a long term replacement but when his departure was announced it made a lot of sense based on what we already knew about his situation. No need for conspiracy theories or to drag Schmidt into it. Occams razor applies here.

by SecretFly Tue 01 Jul 2014, 10:45 am

Suddenly (yet another 'sudden' to add to Humphrey's 'sudden') not seeing out your contract - that was signed even as players and coaches allegedly didn't want him or get along with him - incriminates someone Notch. Even if it's just a case of bad business acumen. Not seeing out a contract that was signed in the face of all that 'unwantedness' needs some explanation.
He'll be compensated for the hassle now no doubt, even as well-to-do people within Ulster rugby were informing their friends on the outside that he wouldn't last long, his days were numbered, player power will finally win a war.

Kiss - is a continuing Irish coach who is now allegedly going to moonlight with Ulster for a time. That's more than Ireland centric and Joe centric enough for me to comment on in an Ulster thread. Wink

Unless of course censorship is allowed construct people's thoughts for them on these 606 pages?

We'll see how it goes on the conspiracies or none. But Schmidt IS involved somewhere in the Ulster conclusion/solution/partial solution, if only for the fact that he'd have to have been involved in discussions that brought one of his lieutenants to Ulster - fact.

by SecretFly Tue 01 Jul 2014, 10:55 am

PS...will Anscombe surprising turn up in Gloucester as second in command to his old boss??

More conspiracy fodder Wink

by **Notch** Tue 01 Jul 2014, 10:58 am

I would say Nucifora is more involved than Schmidt, and Schmidts only potential involvement is to give his blessing to Kiss. I think you see the hand of Schmidt because you're looking for the hand of Schmidt, I don't think he is driving events. I'm sure he has an opinion on it, and I'm guessing he has been talking to Ulster in the past few weeks to work out this Les Kiss situation. This falls under Nuciforas remit not Schmidts and the main driver of the decision to get rid of Anscombe surely comes down to Logan in any event.

I see Rory Best has been on twitter saying getting Les Kiss is brilliant for Ulster Rugby going forward. Well, what he actually said is 'getting Les Kiss is brilliant 4 @UlsterRugby going 4ward #BigSeason' but you know... #grammar Wink

by **Notch** Tue 01 Jul 2014, 10:59 am

SecretFly wrote:PS...will Anscombe surprising turn up in Gloucester as second in command to his old boss??

More conspiracy fodder

Now THAT would surprise me a lot. After all, the reasons Anscombe has been pushed out were things that were happening right under Humphs nose.

Hah, I just realised the Ireland coaching team currently consists of a former Leinster Head Coach, a current Ulster head coach and a former Leinster scrum coach. We're going to get some priceless conspiracy theories coming out of Munsterfans over the next season Smile

I'm more concerned about Ireland getting a new forwards coach than Les Kiss wearing two hats. I think it'll not be a problem to have Neil Doak as acting Head Coach in international windows and it'll not be a problem for Kiss doing his job for Ireland, but we really need a new forwards coach/assistant coach in the international set-up.

by Sin é Tue 01 Jul 2014, 11:11 am

Fly, Ulster were stuck for a coach. Coaches who might have been available to take on that role are Bradley, Elwood & Ruddock. I doubt if Bradley would be wanted, Elwood would want it and Rudduck maybe hoping to land the forwards job for Ireland. They would really have to eat some humble pie to bring back Brian McLaughlin.

That left Kiss as the most qualified to be able to take on the job.

Other angle is Nucifora who coached the Blues when Anscombe was coaching Auckland. Maybe they didn't see eye-to-eye.

Hopefully we are not getting involved in kiwi rugby politics - we have enough of our own to deal with.

by SecretFly Tue 01 Jul 2014, 11:16 am

Notch wrote:
SecretFly wrote:PS...will Anscombe surprising turn up in Gloucester as second in command to his old boss??

More conspiracy fodder

Now THAT would surprise me a lot. After all, the reasons Anscombe has been pushed out were things that were happening right under Humphs nose.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Now we're beginning to see the big picture in the same way, finally. Although I have a feeling you'll disagree with me on that one too, Notch.

Things were allegedly happening under Humphrey's nose.

And yet Humpheys was still regarded by many here as a God amongst DoRs, let's not forget that. Some of the same people who said they knew there was player unrest were the same people who often held Humphreys up as the magican who just intinctively always knew what was best for Ulster rugby.
And yet here it was, things happening on his watch that the players weren't happy with and yet, it seems, he carried on regardless and gave his man (the man he wanted who wouldn't answer back when orders were given) a renewal of contract as players muttered that they would never accept him willingly. Humphs rode in the face of that lack of harmony and the disruption in training that such a situation would bring.
So did the pressure of that unwillingness to take the player's side, did that strident belief from Humphs that he is always right, finally prove to be his reason for jumping ship and moving on before he began taking the flak for the growing disgruntlement in Ulster camp?

This is not my narrative but a collection of pieced narratives thrown out here over the months and pieced together by me. But back when Humphs was actually leaving, little if any of the underground issues were put out there as possible reasons for his sudden departure. I suggested so and was shot down - yet again. Nope, it was just Humphreys simply leaving for a new climate was the retort.

Like hell it was. Humphrey's decisions to get out of Ulster had strong links to Anscombe's subsequent firing (for firing is what it was)

by SecretFly Tue 01 Jul 2014, 11:23 am

Sin é wrote:

Hopefully we are not getting involved in kiwi rugby politics - we have enough of our own to deal with.

Why not? The more politics the better. Especially if it's Kiwi motivated. A motivated Kiwi with scores to settle in the rugby world is usually a very good thing...just ask England after their final test there recently. They got close twice and that motivated the Kiwis.

Ireland has for many years now been a feuding ground for Kiwis. And why not, it's certainly juiced up a few Provinces. Hopefully more to come.

by Sin é Tue 01 Jul 2014, 11:28 am

Its interesting alright that everyone makes excuses for Teflon D Humphreys.

Ulster really have a poor record with coaches - Mark McCall, Matt Williams, Brian McLaughlin & now Anscome. Maybe it isn't all D Humphreys fault, but they sure are going to find it difficult to recruit anyone with their coaches record.

Interesting that I think Connacht & Munster are the only two provinces who have never fired a coach!

by SecretFly Tue 01 Jul 2014, 11:35 am

Sin é wrote:Its interesting alright that everyone makes excuses for Teflon D Humphreys.

Ulster really have a poor record with coaches - Mark McCall, Matt Williams, Brian McLaughlin & now Anscome. Maybe it isn't all D Humphreys fault, but they sure are going to find it difficult to recruit anyone with their coaches record.

Interesting that I think Connacht & Munster are the only two provinces who have never fired a coach!

But you didn't hire two good ones, Sin (Kidney - 'The Return of the King' - or EOS). So retrospectively and convolutedly, you kinda fired them without hiring them Wink

by Sin é Tue 01 Jul 2014, 11:45 am

We didn't hire coaches crap enough that they had to be fired!

by SecretFly Tue 01 Jul 2014, 11:52 am

Sin é wrote:We didn't hire coaches crap enough that they had to be fired!

Careful. Don't speak too soon...... there's always a first time.

by **Notch** Tue 01 Jul 2014, 12:04 pm

SecretFly wrote:
This is not my narrative but a collection of pieced narratives thrown out here over the months and pieced together by me. But back when Humphs was actually leaving, little if any of the underground issues were put out there as possible reasons for his sudden departure. I suggested so and was shot down - yet again. Nope, it was just Humphreys simply leaving for a new climate was the retort.

Like hell it was. Humphrey's decisions to get out of Ulster had strong links to Anscombe's subsequent firing (for firing is what it was)

Oh it's just cause and effect isn't it. Anscombe was never Head Coach with the same responsibilities as others, he was limited to coaching and selection only. He and Humphreys were a team. Once one half of that team goes, the other is redundant. Anscombe was Humphreys choice as Head Coach. He was the one who gave Anscombe a contract extension when others might not have, but that was in the context of working under Humphreys for another year. Without Humphreys around... dead man walking.

Humphreys was a great Director of Rugby, and he did very well for us- but as well as that he's a guy who is very good at looking after his own career. Gloucester are similar to where Ulster where when Humphreys started the job. They are under performing and can only get better. He'll get the credit for that upward trajectory when they do improve despite their playing squad being pretty much finalised before he joined, whereas if Ulster only maintain their level he'll lose a bit of momentum. He's offside now. I really don't think there is anything more to it than that. The Gloucester job is an opportunity for him to push his stock in the game higher and when they approached him he spied an opportunity. Ulster was always a stepping stone to a bigger job with the IRFU and this is just the next step. But that doesn't make Humphreys a bad Director of Rugby. I think the changes he brought in helped us enormously. His record is hardly spotless- the McLaughlin fiasco, Afoa and Anscombe are the big blemishes but it's hard to imagine anyone else bringing Pienaar and Muller to Belfast. By and large, he did better than we could have hoped for.

I don't think any of this about Anscombe is any great revelation. We knew there were issues, we knew we were losing a lot of top players and bringing in new signings. I think Humphs probably decided that these issues would lead to us needing to go backwards a bit before going forwards again. The Humphreys departure was the big shock, although it's now starting to make more and more sense. Anscombe leaving makes sense in light of Humphreys departure in that Kiss will have a bigger role than Anscombe. I would have said Anscombe would have seen out his year extension but I didn't know Les Kiss was available. Once he came into the frame it would have been an easy decision.

by SecretFly Tue 01 Jul 2014, 12:25 pm

Ok...so money was obviously a lure for Humphs to take him away from Ulster when the going got good as it were. That's natural, that's understandable. When career and family interests are on the line, which one of us wouldn't follow best money offers?

So that's all okay. No problem with that.

But you did say, Notch, (at least you did say before you modified your last post) that Humphreys probably got out of town because he felt with the Anscombe situtation (as you say, a coach he personally rubber-stamped mostly because he was allegedly a 'yes' man), the solution would mean that Ulster would have to go back down in expectation terms before going back up?

A bit crass then as a reason, would you not think, Notch. To have so little faith in the players under him and most of whom he had a personal hand in bringing up or buying in? To feel that such players and such a whole unit up in Ulster (admin people, staff, etc) would not benefit instantly from a lift that the release of a sub-par coach (one he picked!) might bring?

Why would he think that Ulster would have to sink first when unburdened of a coach that was perhaps (allegedly) responsible for not allowing them to reach their potential in the first place?

I think he went for the money - yes - and because he knew a storm was probably brewing beneath the surface - with players not liking how things were going, and perhaps making it pointed that they weren't exactly suggesting he was an innocent in the 'Close but never quite there' Catch 22 situation they were repeatedly finding themselves in each year.

He got out before he felt he might have shipped even more blame than Anscombe. He just made it and no more. Good timing.

BTW- you keep bringing up this IRFU deal that Humphreys seems to be chasing as if it's a fait accompli in all but the time required to get there? I'm afraid, like O'Shea before him, I wouldn't be partial to him being around at all. Like O'Shea, he just doesn't personally light my fire.

by Guest Tue 01 Jul 2014, 12:29 pm

Notch wrote:I would say Nucifora is more involved than Schmidt, and Schmidts only potential involvement is to give his blessing to Kiss. I think you see the hand of Schmidt because you're looking for the hand of Schmidt, I don't think he is driving events. I'm sure he has an opinion on it, and I'm guessing he has been talking to Ulster in the past few weeks to work out this Les Kiss situation. This falls under Nuciforas remit not Schmidts and the main driver of the decision to get rid of Anscombe surely comes down to Logan in any event.

I see Rory Best has been on twitter saying getting Les Kiss is brilliant for Ulster Rugby going forward. Well, what he actually said is 'getting Les Kiss is brilliant 4 @UlsterRugby going 4ward #BigSeason' but you know... #grammar

Rory is obviously distraught at the departure of Anscombe, but hey, time is a healer.

by Guest Tue 01 Jul 2014, 12:55 pm

In other news:

Franco van der Merwe returns to action.

The Lions have named their team to play the Melbourne Rebels at Ellis Park on Friday with Franco van der Merwe returning to the starting line up.
Lions head coach has aimed for consistency by naming the same front row and loose forward trio that faced the Bulls before the June Test break.
The only change in the forwards sees Springbok lock Franco van der Merwe return to action, having fully recovered from his ankle injury (Rugby Week).

by clivemcl Tue 01 Jul 2014, 12:59 pm

Wow, just heard on radio that apparantly Gareth has weighed in on th Ulster issue with daddy on Twitter!

by clivemcl Tue 01 Jul 2014, 1:00 pm

Gareth Anscombe ‏ wrote:Pretty disappointed to hear about the way the old mans been treated at @UlsterRugby , how do you expect to get success at a club when you have clowns at the top making decisions like this.

by Guest Tue 01 Jul 2014, 1:05 pm

clivemcl wrote:
Gareth Anscombe ‏ wrote:Pretty disappointed to hear about the way the old mans been treated at @UlsterRugby , how do you expect to get success at a club when you have clowns at the top making decisions like this.

That lad is wise beyond his years....

by The Great Aukster Tue 01 Jul 2014, 2:01 pm

First of all there is no 'player power' conspiracy. There are no more disgruntled players at Ulster than at any other province/club. These guys get to the top because of their drive and competitiveness but there is a pecking order and the ones further down it rarely blame themselves (nor do their supporters).

Secondly Humphreys moved to further his career, both financially and technically.

Thirdly a replacement DOR isn't easy to find, particularly one that knows a lot of the players. If one can be attracted is he not likely to have a few conditions? Les Kiss is a strong enough character not to want to inherit half a 'head coaching team' - particularly when the half that is left is the hands-on part that is his forte.

Fourthly the 'double-jobbing' idea is purely face-saving IRFU speak. Kiss will be fully 100% hands on at Ulster and a successor will be recruited in due course partly dependent on the new forwards coach. Kiss will be hoping that transition doesn't take too long as he has one year to prove himself and land himself a longer term.

by Sin é Tue 01 Jul 2014, 2:16 pm

Explain how Humphreys is improving his career by moving to Gloucester?

I would have thought that most Ulster fans would consider Ulster to be more prestigious than Gloucester?

by **Notch** Tue 01 Jul 2014, 2:19 pm

SecretFly wrote:
BTW- you keep bringing up this IRFU deal that Humphreys seems to be chasing as if it's a fait accompli in all but the time required to get there? I'm afraid, like O'Shea before him, I wouldn't be partial to him being around at all. Like O'Shea, he just doesn't personally light my fire.

No, I keep bringing it up in terms of it being Humphreys long-term career goal. Whether he achieves that goal or not I don't know.

As for Humphreys, I don't know why you keep going on like I'm disagreeing with you. I don't disagree with you. Humphreys is looking after himself, not Ulster. When those two things converged he was very good for us. As soon as they didn't he jumped. He always had one eye on his own career path but it would be harsh to deny he did do an excellent job- at least until the last few months. Because he's left us with one hell of a mess and personally I hope the IRFU will consider that when making future appointments.

by **Notch** Tue 01 Jul 2014, 2:21 pm

Sin é wrote:Explain how Humphreys is improving his career by moving to Gloucester?

I would have thought that most Ulster fans would consider Ulster to be more prestigious than Gloucester?

I already went over this...

Notch wrote:Gloucester are similar to where Ulster where when Humphreys started the job. They are under performing and can only get better. He'll get the credit for that upward trajectory when they do improve despite their playing squad being pretty much finalised before he joined, whereas if Ulster only maintain their level he'll lose a bit of momentum.

by clivemcl Tue 01 Jul 2014, 2:23 pm

Sin é wrote:Explain how Humphreys is improving his career by moving to Gloucester?

I would have thought that most Ulster fans would consider Ulster to be more prestigious than Gloucester?

Take a mediocre club to top of the tree once = Good but maybe luck
Take a mediocre club to top of the tree twice = Massive kudos and acclaim = Big money career job of his dreams.

by Sin é Tue 01 Jul 2014, 2:26 pm

So he is covering his back then for the mess he made in Ulster. If he wants a DOR role (Nucifera's role with Ireland) he should be looking for a role with one of southern hemisphere Unions at least, though I think the main reason why Nucifora got the Ireland job was because he was coming in from outside with no baggage or attachments. His actual cv isn't exactly that good.

by Sin é Tue 01 Jul 2014, 2:29 pm

clivemcl wrote:
Sin é wrote:Explain how Humphreys is improving his career by moving to Gloucester?

I would have thought that most Ulster fans would consider Ulster to be more prestigious than Gloucester?

Take a mediocre club to top of the tree once = Good but maybe luck
Take a mediocre club to top of the tree twice = Massive kudos and acclaim = Big money career job of his dreams.

He didn't get Ulster to the top of the tree though.

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