Ulster 2014/2015
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The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Rugby Union :: Club Rugby
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Ulster 2014/2015
First topic message reminder :
Details of pre-season games to confirmed- we take on Exeter Chiefs at Ravenhill on Friday the 22nd August and then travel to Donnybrook to face Leinster on Friday the 29th August. On the transfer front, it seems like our business for the year is concluded. Second row looks strong and our back line is stronger than ever, but there are concerns about our depth in the front row and back row of the pack. A lot depends on Wiehahn Herbst turning out to be a hit and Chris Henry staying fit- our decision to spend a valuable NIQ spot on Louis Ludik and Sean Doyles departure leaves us exposed at open side with two new, extremely untested players in Reidy and Butterworth vying to be Henrys understudy. Rob Herring is another player who needs to avoid injury at all costs. Niall Annett has been allowed to leave along with Brady in recent seasons and the 3rd choice hooker is not obvious. With seedings in Europe determined by league performance, Ulster may very well rue their lack of depth in the forward pack come May.
Players Out
Johann Muller (retired), Paddy Wallace (retired), Stephen Ferris (retired), Chris Cochrane (retired), Chris Farrell (Grenoble), Niall Annett (Worcester), John Afoa (Gloucester), Tom Court (London Irish), James McKinney (Rotherham), David McIlwaine (Rotherham), Paddy McAllister (Aurillac), Sean Doyle (ACT Brumbies), Adam Macklin (Rotherham), Ian Porter (Connacht)
Players In
Franco van der Merwe (Golden Lions), Louis Ludik (Agen), Wiehahn Herbst (Natal Sharks), Ruaidhrí Murphy (ACT Brumbies), Dave Ryan (Zebre), Ian Humphreys (London Irish), Charlie Butterworth (Lansdowne), Sean Reidy (Counties Manukau)
Ulster don't do turbulent off seasons but if we did...
We've also been rocked with the seismic revelation David Humphreys is leaving the province- indeed has already left- for Gloucester. Anscombe was slated to be seeing out the last year of his contract before being quietly let go but the Humphreys bombshell left him as the odd man out, and he's been pushed out the door. The decision was partly because he was hired to work under a Director of Rugby and Ulster are looking for someone with more experience in the market to take on Humphreys role in addition to the coaching responsibilities. As usual, the rumour mill is on overdrive and opinions are polarised- but this is Ulster Rugby after all. Les Kiss is our interim Director of Rugby and it seems Allen Clarke is filling the role of forwards coach in the short term. More changes or appointments could be forthcoming.
If all that wasn't enough we've been dealt a real group of death in the new Champions Cup- double-winners Toulon will brave the Ravenhill roar along with old friends Leicester Tigers and old foes the Scarlets. All in all, this team should be capable of securing a Top 4 finish at the very least in the Pro12 and we need to target the top two, our prospects in Europe look more occluded- it might come down to best runners-up and our pool promises to be tight and competitive.
Opening fixtures
F; Exeter Chiefs (H)
F; Leinster (A)
Pro12; Scarlets (A)
Pro12; Zebre (H)
Pro12; Cardiff Blues (A)
Pro12; Zebre (A)
Pro12; Edinburgh (H)
Details of pre-season games to confirmed- we take on Exeter Chiefs at Ravenhill on Friday the 22nd August and then travel to Donnybrook to face Leinster on Friday the 29th August. On the transfer front, it seems like our business for the year is concluded. Second row looks strong and our back line is stronger than ever, but there are concerns about our depth in the front row and back row of the pack. A lot depends on Wiehahn Herbst turning out to be a hit and Chris Henry staying fit- our decision to spend a valuable NIQ spot on Louis Ludik and Sean Doyles departure leaves us exposed at open side with two new, extremely untested players in Reidy and Butterworth vying to be Henrys understudy. Rob Herring is another player who needs to avoid injury at all costs. Niall Annett has been allowed to leave along with Brady in recent seasons and the 3rd choice hooker is not obvious. With seedings in Europe determined by league performance, Ulster may very well rue their lack of depth in the forward pack come May.
Players Out
Johann Muller (retired), Paddy Wallace (retired), Stephen Ferris (retired), Chris Cochrane (retired), Chris Farrell (Grenoble), Niall Annett (Worcester), John Afoa (Gloucester), Tom Court (London Irish), James McKinney (Rotherham), David McIlwaine (Rotherham), Paddy McAllister (Aurillac), Sean Doyle (ACT Brumbies), Adam Macklin (Rotherham), Ian Porter (Connacht)
Players In
Franco van der Merwe (Golden Lions), Louis Ludik (Agen), Wiehahn Herbst (Natal Sharks), Ruaidhrí Murphy (ACT Brumbies), Dave Ryan (Zebre), Ian Humphreys (London Irish), Charlie Butterworth (Lansdowne), Sean Reidy (Counties Manukau)
Ulster don't do turbulent off seasons but if we did...
We've also been rocked with the seismic revelation David Humphreys is leaving the province- indeed has already left- for Gloucester. Anscombe was slated to be seeing out the last year of his contract before being quietly let go but the Humphreys bombshell left him as the odd man out, and he's been pushed out the door. The decision was partly because he was hired to work under a Director of Rugby and Ulster are looking for someone with more experience in the market to take on Humphreys role in addition to the coaching responsibilities. As usual, the rumour mill is on overdrive and opinions are polarised- but this is Ulster Rugby after all. Les Kiss is our interim Director of Rugby and it seems Allen Clarke is filling the role of forwards coach in the short term. More changes or appointments could be forthcoming.
If all that wasn't enough we've been dealt a real group of death in the new Champions Cup- double-winners Toulon will brave the Ravenhill roar along with old friends Leicester Tigers and old foes the Scarlets. All in all, this team should be capable of securing a Top 4 finish at the very least in the Pro12 and we need to target the top two, our prospects in Europe look more occluded- it might come down to best runners-up and our pool promises to be tight and competitive.
Opening fixtures
F; Exeter Chiefs (H)
F; Leinster (A)
Pro12; Scarlets (A)
Pro12; Zebre (H)
Pro12; Cardiff Blues (A)
Pro12; Zebre (A)
Pro12; Edinburgh (H)
Last edited by Notch on Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:18 pm; edited 6 times in total
Notch- Moderator
- Posts : 25635
Join date : 2011-02-10
Age : 36
Location : Belfast
Re: Ulster 2014/2015
http://www.thescore.ie/ulster-mark-anscombe-head-coach-changes-1547935-Jul2014/
Interesting article from Murray Kinsella.
Be warned - it dares to deviate from the "obviously Ulster are utterly banjaxed and they have single-handedly brought down the IRFU with these shenanigans" line.
Interesting article from Murray Kinsella.
Be warned - it dares to deviate from the "obviously Ulster are utterly banjaxed and they have single-handedly brought down the IRFU with these shenanigans" line.
Don Alfonso- Posts : 2722
Join date : 2011-05-09
Age : 48
Location : The 'Shaft
Re: Ulster 2014/2015
He got Ulster over every hurdle bar the blue one to the south of them. And during a period of time when that blue hurdle was seen as being too high for most teams (except the recent Toulon side).
Gloucester is smart option for him. The fundamentals of that club are quite good, well supported, good youthful players ready to be honed and moulded into a formidable side.
TBH I like seeing O'Shea at Quins, McCall at Sarries, Humphreys at Gloucester as they are blue chip positions in blue chip organisations and can only bode well for the future of Irish coaches. Then you have Foley coming through in Munster, Girvan learning his trade at Leinster, Leo taking on a forwards role, Doak up north, Geordan in the Tigers set up and a couple of people starting to do well in France. For recent enough moaning about not having Irish coaches in senior roles (aimed at foreign head coaches in the provinces) we seem to have quite a stable of decent talent building up.
On Kiss, it will be interesting to see how it goes. He will have a tough season at the helm with the coaching changes, Muller, Afoa, Court, Ferris et al no longer around.
But Ravenhill will have full enough houses for the season, presumably increased gate takings and also money from the naming rights.
Will be offering a lot of control to a DOR.
Will have a strong war chest.
And the new DOR will be snapping up players just after the RWC when a glut of top end talent will be intrigued by the prospects of playing at Ravenhill.
Not all doom and gloom.
Gloucester is smart option for him. The fundamentals of that club are quite good, well supported, good youthful players ready to be honed and moulded into a formidable side.
TBH I like seeing O'Shea at Quins, McCall at Sarries, Humphreys at Gloucester as they are blue chip positions in blue chip organisations and can only bode well for the future of Irish coaches. Then you have Foley coming through in Munster, Girvan learning his trade at Leinster, Leo taking on a forwards role, Doak up north, Geordan in the Tigers set up and a couple of people starting to do well in France. For recent enough moaning about not having Irish coaches in senior roles (aimed at foreign head coaches in the provinces) we seem to have quite a stable of decent talent building up.
On Kiss, it will be interesting to see how it goes. He will have a tough season at the helm with the coaching changes, Muller, Afoa, Court, Ferris et al no longer around.
But Ravenhill will have full enough houses for the season, presumably increased gate takings and also money from the naming rights.
Will be offering a lot of control to a DOR.
Will have a strong war chest.
And the new DOR will be snapping up players just after the RWC when a glut of top end talent will be intrigued by the prospects of playing at Ravenhill.
Not all doom and gloom.
thebandwagonsociety- Posts : 2901
Join date : 2011-06-02
Re: Ulster 2014/2015
Sin é wrote:So he is covering his back then for the mess he made in Ulster.
Yes. Remember, we were brilliant before Humphreys came along. He has ruined everything.
Don Alfonso- Posts : 2722
Join date : 2011-05-09
Age : 48
Location : The 'Shaft
Re: Ulster 2014/2015
Don Alfonso wrote:Sin é wrote:So he is covering his back then for the mess he made in Ulster.
Yes. Remember, we were brilliant before Humphreys came along. He has ruined everything.
Guest- Guest
Re: Ulster 2014/2015
Don Alfonso wrote:Sin é wrote:So he is covering his back then for the mess he made in Ulster.
Yes. Remember, we were brilliant before Humphreys came along. He has ruined everything.
In fairness to him, sacking a coach to their face is a big improvement than sacking them by text!
How much better off is Ulster (with regard to playing squad/coaching) to what they were when McLaughlin took over from Williams?
Sin é- Posts : 13725
Join date : 2011-04-01
Location : Dublin
Re: Ulster 2014/2015
thebandwagonsociety wrote:He got Ulster over every hurdle bar the blue one to the south of them. And during a period of time when that blue hurdle was seen as being too high for most teams (except the recent Toulon side).
Even Munster have won something (Pro12 & B&I Cup) in that time period and Munster are supposedly on their knees!
Sin é- Posts : 13725
Join date : 2011-04-01
Location : Dublin
Re: Ulster 2014/2015
Sin é wrote:thebandwagonsociety wrote:He got Ulster over every hurdle bar the blue one to the south of them. And during a period of time when that blue hurdle was seen as being too high for most teams (except the recent Toulon side).
Even Munster have won something (Pro12 & B&I Cup) in that time period and Munster are supposedly on their knees!
Imagine how much more you could have won had Zeebs hit some more rucks!!
I didn't realise Munster had won the Pro12, was it the Magners Pro12 back then? Surely it was that season that there were 12 teams but still called the Celtic League.
thebandwagonsociety- Posts : 2901
Join date : 2011-06-02
Re: Ulster 2014/2015
Sin é wrote:How much better off is Ulster (with regard to playing squad/coaching) to what they were when McLaughlin took over from Williams?
Massively better. When McLaughlin took over we were a bottom 4 team in the league consistently, now we are top four in the league consistently.
Notch- Moderator
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Re: Ulster 2014/2015
Don Alfonso wrote:http://www.thescore.ie/ulster-mark-anscombe-head-coach-changes-1547935-Jul2014/
Interesting article from Murray Kinsella.
Be warned - it dares to deviate from the "obviously Ulster are utterly banjaxed and they have single-handedly brought down the IRFU with these shenanigans" line.
Thanks for highlighting that article Don It is very accurate.
Anscombe's no show at the end of year awards dinner was symptomatic of where he saw his relationship with the province, that was at the start of May - long before the news of Humphreys' departure.
The Great Aukster- Posts : 5246
Join date : 2011-06-09
Re: Ulster 2014/2015
OK so I have been away for a few days and come home to this news and 2 pages worth of stuff on here.
So let me get this right from what I can see Anscombe left, Humphreys left, it was humphreys fault, it was anscombes fault, Scmidt planned it, Logan did it, Nucifora planned it, Best can't spell, Munster don't fire coaches, munster don't hire coaches, double jobbing, gareth anscombe hates us, player power, no player power, disillusioned player, some people loved him, moist hated him, mcclaughlin can't come back, kiss is in charge except for when he is with Ireland then someone else is in charge, but schmidt is in charge everything and Logan is in charge of something and it was all to do Humphs career, New Zealand politics, irish rugby politics and through all of that no one agreee. Right I see now, I think I need to go for a lie down.
So let me get this right from what I can see Anscombe left, Humphreys left, it was humphreys fault, it was anscombes fault, Scmidt planned it, Logan did it, Nucifora planned it, Best can't spell, Munster don't fire coaches, munster don't hire coaches, double jobbing, gareth anscombe hates us, player power, no player power, disillusioned player, some people loved him, moist hated him, mcclaughlin can't come back, kiss is in charge except for when he is with Ireland then someone else is in charge, but schmidt is in charge everything and Logan is in charge of something and it was all to do Humphs career, New Zealand politics, irish rugby politics and through all of that no one agreee. Right I see now, I think I need to go for a lie down.
Re: Ulster 2014/2015
Notch wrote:Sin é wrote:How much better off is Ulster (with regard to playing squad/coaching) to what they were when McLaughlin took over from Williams?
Massively better. When McLaughlin took over we were a bottom 4 team in the league consistently, now we are top four in the league consistently.
True. And why set the parameters of comparison so narrowly? We could compare average attendances, season tickets sold, profit, representation on the national team, youth structures, sponsorship - all massively improved.
Don Alfonso- Posts : 2722
Join date : 2011-05-09
Age : 48
Location : The 'Shaft
Re: Ulster 2014/2015
neilthom7 wrote:OK so I have been away for a few days and come home to this news and 2 pages worth of stuff on here.
So let me get this right from what I can see Anscombe left, Humphreys left, it was humphreys fault, it was anscombes fault, Scmidt planned it, Logan did it, Nucifora planned it, Best can't spell, Munster don't fire coaches, munster don't hire coaches, double jobbing, gareth anscombe hates us, player power, no player power, disillusioned player, some people loved him, moist hated him, mcclaughlin can't come back, kiss is in charge except for when he is with Ireland then someone else is in charge, but schmidt is in charge everything and Logan is in charge of something and it was all to do Humphs career, New Zealand politics, irish rugby politics and through all of that no one agreee. Right I see now, I think I need to go for a lie down.
Sounds like the lyrics to a Billy Joel song.
asoreleftshoulder- Posts : 3945
Join date : 2011-05-15
Location : Meath,Ireland.
Re: Ulster 2014/2015
Tommy Bowe interviewed;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/28114340?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook
Very excited about the arrival of Les Kiss. He would like him to be the long term solution. Enjoyed working under Mark Anscombe but thinks changes might need to be made to push us onto the next level.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/28114340?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook
Very excited about the arrival of Les Kiss. He would like him to be the long term solution. Enjoyed working under Mark Anscombe but thinks changes might need to be made to push us onto the next level.
Notch- Moderator
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Re: Ulster 2014/2015
Well, well you disappear for a week or so......
rodders- Moderator
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Re: Ulster 2014/2015
I know Rodders I only left for a few days and look what happened place is falling apart without us lol
Re: Ulster 2014/2015
The Bowe interview is informative in that he clearly dwells on kiss and not Anscombe. Either Bowe is our go to guy in terms of putting a public face on dubious news or else they really didnt care for Anscombe.
My own view (with zero inside knowledge) is that he has been slightly unfortunate. We topped the league and IMO were undone by not having a built stadium and secondly we were undone by two reds this year.
I think we are a markedly better side than under McLaughlin and I hope that trend continues under kiss, who, if he is a long term appointment can't have impressed Joe
My own view (with zero inside knowledge) is that he has been slightly unfortunate. We topped the league and IMO were undone by not having a built stadium and secondly we were undone by two reds this year.
I think we are a markedly better side than under McLaughlin and I hope that trend continues under kiss, who, if he is a long term appointment can't have impressed Joe
Standulstermen- Posts : 5451
Join date : 2011-02-16
Age : 41
Re: Ulster 2014/2015
I don't know if thats fair Stand. He doesn't want to be an Assistant Coach forever. He interviewed for Head Coach of Ireland after Kidney left and didn't get it- this is a big opportunity for him to show he's not just a good Lieutenant.
Notch- Moderator
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Re: Ulster 2014/2015
My only point is would Ireland give up their assistant coach (having lost the other) a year out from a RWC if the head coach didn't want him to go? I don't see it? I'm not convinced by kiss but I'll be delighted if he proves as popular as the players seem to think he is
And for the record, I couldn't give two ***** what Gareth Anscombe thinks
And for the record, I couldn't give two ***** what Gareth Anscombe thinks
Standulstermen- Posts : 5451
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Re: Ulster 2014/2015
Is it not more likely that Les Kiss was the eventual plan for DOR/Head Coach - but David Humphries threw a spanner in the works.
At that point, Ulster rugby, Les Kiss and the IRFU came to an agreement to let Kiss take charge at Ulster in a somewhat part time way whilst still keeping hold of him until the World Cup.
I wouldn't be surprised if he is made permanent at Ulster post world cup.
At that point, Ulster rugby, Les Kiss and the IRFU came to an agreement to let Kiss take charge at Ulster in a somewhat part time way whilst still keeping hold of him until the World Cup.
I wouldn't be surprised if he is made permanent at Ulster post world cup.
Last edited by clivemcl on Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:03 am; edited 1 time in total
clivemcl- Posts : 4681
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Re: Ulster 2014/2015
Well he is going to get his chance. Fingers crossed he takes it and we improve
Standulstermen- Posts : 5451
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Re: Ulster 2014/2015
neilthom7 wrote:OK so I have been away for a few days and come home to this news and 2 pages worth of stuff on here.
So let me get this right from what I can see Anscombe left, Humphreys left, it was humphreys fault, it was anscombes fault, Scmidt planned it, Logan did it, Nucifora planned it, Best can't spell, Munster don't fire coaches, munster don't hire coaches, double jobbing, gareth anscombe hates us, player power, no player power, disillusioned player, some people loved him, moist hated him, mcclaughlin can't come back, kiss is in charge except for when he is with Ireland then someone else is in charge, but schmidt is in charge everything and Logan is in charge of something and it was all to do Humphs career, New Zealand politics, irish rugby politics and through all of that no one agreee. Right I see now, I think I need to go for a lie down.
Certainly the best summary of the technicalities that I've read so far. Congrats, neilthom.
SecretFly- Posts : 31800
Join date : 2011-12-12
Re: Ulster 2014/2015
Standulstermen wrote:The Bowe interview is informative in that he clearly dwells on kiss and not Anscombe.
I would take the players reaction with a pinch of salt, it would take a pretty stupid player to be anything less than enthusiastic about their new coach...especially one involved in the international set up in a world cup year.
Lets not forget that not only has Kiss been tried in roles beyond defence, such as attack coach, and failed miserably plus Ireland's defensive system has been on the wane for a number of seasons. Other than the choke tackle there hasn't been much innovation from Kiss in recent years.
I personally think this is more a case of the IRFU jumping in to save Ulster's blushes. Clearly there is real disarray in the camp, no matter what the players say.
rodders- Moderator
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Re: Ulster 2014/2015
SecretFly wrote:neilthom7 wrote:OK so I have been away for a few days and come home to this news and 2 pages worth of stuff on here.
So let me get this right from what I can see Anscombe left, Humphreys left, it was humphreys fault, it was anscombes fault, Scmidt planned it, Logan did it, Nucifora planned it, Best can't spell, Munster don't fire coaches, munster don't hire coaches, double jobbing, gareth anscombe hates us, player power, no player power, disillusioned player, some people loved him, moist hated him, mcclaughlin can't come back, kiss is in charge except for when he is with Ireland then someone else is in charge, but schmidt is in charge everything and Logan is in charge of something and it was all to do Humphs career, New Zealand politics, irish rugby politics and through all of that no one agreee. Right I see now, I think I need to go for a lie down.
Certainly the best summary of the technicalities that I've read so far. Congrats, neilthom.
cheers Secret had to have a good lie down after that one my head was sore lol
Re: Ulster 2014/2015
No, I've seen it mentioned before that Les Kiss is popular with all the Ireland players not just the Ulster lads, and he seems quite highly thought of by the players which is a good sign. Probably one of the main reasons he was the only survivor of the Kidney era.
I don't blame him for the attack coach thing, he was put in a position where he couldn't really do both jobs. It's a very different kind of double jobbing than this where he'll be full-time with Ulster for most of the year and full-time with Ireland for a few weeks in the autumn and in the Six Nations. He had two conflicting jobs and there didn't seem to be any clear style of play being laid down from the top.
All in all, I'm optimistic about how he'll do though I understand why others might have reservations. The proof of the pudding will be in the eating. Here's hoping he can deliver.
I don't blame him for the attack coach thing, he was put in a position where he couldn't really do both jobs. It's a very different kind of double jobbing than this where he'll be full-time with Ulster for most of the year and full-time with Ireland for a few weeks in the autumn and in the Six Nations. He had two conflicting jobs and there didn't seem to be any clear style of play being laid down from the top.
All in all, I'm optimistic about how he'll do though I understand why others might have reservations. The proof of the pudding will be in the eating. Here's hoping he can deliver.
Notch- Moderator
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Re: Ulster 2014/2015
rodders wrote:Standulstermen wrote:The Bowe interview is informative in that he clearly dwells on kiss and not Anscombe.
I would take the players reaction with a pinch of salt, it would take a pretty stupid player to be anything less than enthusiastic about their new coach...especially one involved in the international set up in a world cup year.
Lets not forget that not only has Kiss been tried in roles beyond defence, such as attack coach, and failed miserably plus Ireland's defensive system has been on the wane for a number of seasons. Other than the choke tackle there hasn't been much innovation from Kiss in recent years.
I personally think this is more a case of the IRFU jumping in to save Ulster's blushes. Clearly there is real disarray in the camp, no matter what the players say.
Rodders I believe the only 6N team to concede less point than Ireland this year was the England GS and RWC winning team in 2003 so I don't agree with your take on Ireland's defence at all. I do agree with your concerns with him double jobbing.
Standulstermen- Posts : 5451
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Re: Ulster 2014/2015
Ireland defence has been very good this season stand but we have conceded a lot of linebreaks - its been our scrambling defence and work at the ruck, the latter being down to Schmidt, that's been the difference this year. Remember we were torn apart out wide in the autumn by Australia - Browns break through the middle at Twickenham cost us the slam so our 1st line defensive pattern is failing.
I maintain that Kiss was a disaster as attack coach for Ireland, he has zero pedigree for anything other than a defence coach so I see no evidence that he will be as good as Anscombe, let alone better.
I wish him well for sure but can't believe this is anything but a panic appointment by a club that is in total disarray right now.
I maintain that Kiss was a disaster as attack coach for Ireland, he has zero pedigree for anything other than a defence coach so I see no evidence that he will be as good as Anscombe, let alone better.
I wish him well for sure but can't believe this is anything but a panic appointment by a club that is in total disarray right now.
rodders- Moderator
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Re: Ulster 2014/2015
I'm not sure I agree Rodders. Every team will give up some linebreaks and bearing in mind we had two 30+ guys in the centre one of whom was held together by sheer will.
I agree with you regarding the attack though. We have an attack coach and a defence coach though. We need a forwards coach though and I will be very keen to watch our attack develop. I'm not convinced by Doak so if we don't see an improvement I think he should be gone next year too
I actually think it's the opposite of a panic appointment though. Panic would be running out and giving someone a two or three year contract. It's a sensible option in the short term.
I agree with you regarding the attack though. We have an attack coach and a defence coach though. We need a forwards coach though and I will be very keen to watch our attack develop. I'm not convinced by Doak so if we don't see an improvement I think he should be gone next year too
I actually think it's the opposite of a panic appointment though. Panic would be running out and giving someone a two or three year contract. It's a sensible option in the short term.
Standulstermen- Posts : 5451
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Re: Ulster 2014/2015
I'm hoping your gut feeling is well off the mark Rodders. Kiss will be given a chance to pull the strings with the backup of Bell and Doak and if they turn out to be a good formula for the squad then happy days. I think our squad will have more depth in character after last year what with learning to play with 14 men on the pitch etc. The addition of the shock departures will, I hope, galvanise this squad making them a hard nut to crack next season. Kiss could be the boost this Ulster side needed to step up a level.
On the other hand it could all come tumbling down but I'm not going to listen to the little voices telling me that.
On the other hand it could all come tumbling down but I'm not going to listen to the little voices telling me that.
Pete330v2- Posts : 4602
Join date : 2012-05-04
Re: Ulster 2014/2015
Well stand if the media is to believed it was the players who forced Anscombe out - that has echos of the McCall era when the players were running the show.
With Muller and Humph gone, we needed a bit of continuity - the plan was another year for Anscombe, to go back on that is a panic decision, hence the need to bring in someone temporarily. The 3 year plan lai down by Humph and Logan has well and truely gone up in smoke as far as I can see.
I suspect Kiss could be on the way out of the international set up anyway - I wouldn't be surprised to see Kiss get the Ulster gig permanently and Schmidt to shuffle his team...maybe bringing in Drico and ROG....
With Muller and Humph gone, we needed a bit of continuity - the plan was another year for Anscombe, to go back on that is a panic decision, hence the need to bring in someone temporarily. The 3 year plan lai down by Humph and Logan has well and truely gone up in smoke as far as I can see.
I suspect Kiss could be on the way out of the international set up anyway - I wouldn't be surprised to see Kiss get the Ulster gig permanently and Schmidt to shuffle his team...maybe bringing in Drico and ROG....
rodders- Moderator
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Re: Ulster 2014/2015
rodders wrote:Well stand if the media is to believed it was the players who forced Anscombe out - that has echos of the McCall era when the players were running the show.
With Muller and Humph gone, we needed a bit of continuity - the plan was another year for Anscombe, to go back on that is a panic decision, hence the need to bring in someone temporarily. The 3 year plan lai down by Humph and Logan has well and truely gone up in smoke as far as I can see.
I suspect Kiss could be on the way out of the international set up anyway - I wouldn't be surprised to see Kiss get the Ulster gig permanently and Schmidt to shuffle his team...maybe bringing in Drico and ROG....
He (Schmidt) would'nae do that coz that would be a conspiracy. And Schmidt categorically don't like conspiracies, as his tetchy responses to the Zebo questions prove
SecretFly- Posts : 31800
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Re: Ulster 2014/2015
Drico?! That would be a surprise. They'd put Girvan in there before him and even that isn't likely.
I could understand ROG as kicking coach. Sexytoes and ROG are a unit at Racing so it would make sense to bring that consistency to the national side.
I could understand ROG as kicking coach. Sexytoes and ROG are a unit at Racing so it would make sense to bring that consistency to the national side.
thebandwagonsociety- Posts : 2901
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Re: Ulster 2014/2015
thebandwagonsociety wrote:Drico?! That would be a surprise. They'd put Girvan in there before him and even that isn't likely.
I could understand ROG as kicking coach. Sexytoes and ROG are a unit at Racing so it would make sense to bring that consistency to the national side.
But Schmidt does think Drico is God.
So it's possible he'll ask the Pope to canonise BOD quickly to make him eligible for an International coaching role before he's even coached at club level. BOD has history here too - as a player who virtually began his International career before his club one.
SecretFly- Posts : 31800
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Re: Ulster 2014/2015
I would think the easy option would have been for Ulster Rugby to let Anscombe see out his contract for another season, rodders. Logan obviously talked with the IRFU prior to Anscombe departure, and he, and they, must have agreed that letting Anscombe go now was in the best interests of Ulster Rugby, and possibly Ireland as the 2015 RWC draws near. I don't agree that it was a panic decision at all.
If not all was well between Anscombe and the squad, and if that was likely to continue into the new season, then maybe Anscombe leaving now is for the best. Harsh as it may seem...
If not all was well between Anscombe and the squad, and if that was likely to continue into the new season, then maybe Anscombe leaving now is for the best. Harsh as it may seem...
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Re: Ulster 2014/2015
Munchkin wrote:I would think the easy option would have been for Ulster Rugby to let Anscombe see out his contract for another season, rodders. Logan obviously talked with the IRFU prior to Anscombe departure, and he, and they, must have agreed that letting Anscombe go now was in the best interests of Ulster Rugby, and possibly Ireland as the 2015 RWC draws near. I don't agree that it was a panic decision at all.
If not all was well between Anscombe and the squad, and if that was likely to continue into the new season, then maybe Anscombe leaving now is for the best. Harsh as it may seem...
Ulster rugby have a policy of getting the coaching contracts in place by Christmas to allow the coach to plan for the new season. Anscombe was given a one year contract which they have subsequently terminated in the off season do I disagree that this was pre planned and not a knee jerk reaction to Humphreys leaving.
Clearly with Humph and Muller gone some senior players felt they could oust Anscombe and that is not a healthy set up at a club. Humphreys wanted Anscombe to stay - at least for another year and with him gone the set up seems to be in chaos from a rugby perspective.
On the positive side it seems the players, not just the Irish ones are happy with the news but for me there are massive question marks over Kiss and his experience and suitability for this role.
rodders- Moderator
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Re: Ulster 2014/2015
I'm not certain they did want Anscombe to stay but rather were forced into it by lack of other options Rodders. They probably didn't want a repeat of the McLaughlin situation.
As for 'player power' well it is and it isn't a good thing. It depends entirely what went on behind the scenes which we know nothing about. If Muller has had words with Logan I would trust him. He is a man of integrity
As for 'player power' well it is and it isn't a good thing. It depends entirely what went on behind the scenes which we know nothing about. If Muller has had words with Logan I would trust him. He is a man of integrity
Standulstermen- Posts : 5451
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Re: Ulster 2014/2015
We'll have agree to disagree, I think the club is in a mess - after 5 fantastic seasons of upward development the baby has well and truly been dumped by with the bath water over the last few weeks.
rodders- Moderator
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Re: Ulster 2014/2015
rodders wrote:Well stand if the media is to believed it was the players who forced Anscombe out - that has echos of the McCall era when the players were running the show.
I think it's quite different to that, Anscombe was allegedly overly harsh towards certain younger players and allegedly had his favourites who were treated differently; well if that is true I have no problem with senior players standing up for junior players or senior players being consulted over a coaches performance. It would be a very bad thing if it was players accused of unprofessional behaviour forcing out a coach but in this case its the players who have been nothing but totally conscientous and professional and the coach who is accused of unprofessional behaviour. If that is true moving Anscombe on is the best thing we could do. After all, if the coach doesn't have the respect of the players he's coaching then it's a recipe for disaster. I would echo Stands comments. The senior players at Ulster last year (Best, Henry, Muller, Wallace, Bowe, Trimble etc.) are all men of integrity, total professionals, and if it is true that some of them were alienated by Anscombe I have nothing but trust for their judgment.
This is all based on rumours and I hope it continues to be based on rumours. We don't need any more dirty laundry to be aired in public, we just need the drama to end here as we move towards the new season- better that the truth stays hidden. But while I can only go on second hand information from the media and from online, it's enough for me personally to feel more relieved than anything else. Your mileage may vary but I'm not sure that the mistake UR made with Anscombe wasn't giving him the extra year to begin with.
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Re: Ulster 2014/2015
Notch a lot of the younger and less established players really enjoyed working under Anscombe because he gave them a chance. It was a group of senior players who wanted Anscombe out from what I heard.... and its not that hard to work out who was amongst them....
rodders- Moderator
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So who then? Because I would definitely trust our senior players over Anscombe to have the best interests of Ulster at heart. I know they have integrity, whereas Anscombe...
Notch- Moderator
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Re: Ulster 2014/2015
Maybe the IRFU decided enough was enough and decided they wanted their man in there. Maybe they are peed off that Humphreys took off to Gloucester after all the backing they have given him with extra 1m cash etc.
Sears (former CEO of Connacht) didn't have a rugby background like Logan - maybe they are afraid that Logan might have similar problems without a rugby head involved.
Sears (former CEO of Connacht) didn't have a rugby background like Logan - maybe they are afraid that Logan might have similar problems without a rugby head involved.
Sin é- Posts : 13725
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Re: Ulster 2014/2015
There was one shock departure - Humphreys. He was an Ulster hero and universally liked - the opposite of Anscombe. DH was the one to argue for the extra year for MA, as they worked together in a good cop / bad cop team. That approach doesn't work if you lose one cop.
The reality is that Anscombe wasn't forced out by the players but by the departure of Humphreys, as it would be very difficult for Ulster to recruit a like for like replacement as DoR, and it is indeed questionable whether Ulster should be perpetuating that arrangement anyway.
It is arguable that Humphreys was in actual fact holding Ulster back, and vice versa. His skillset didn't extend to the management of the coaching team, but rather was a collaboration with them. He needed an abrasive Anscombe-type with enough authority to manage the rest of a coaching team that were all more experienced than he was. Humphreys moving away has removed that enigma from Ulster Rugby and will allow him to add to his skill set to become the 'complete' DoR.
When Ulster recruit seriously next year they will be in a better position than they would have been. They will be looking for a Director of Rugby with complete responsibility resting on one man. That should attract the quality of candidate that otherwise wouldn't have been interested.
Les Kiss has a reputation for having great attention to detail, which is necessary to identify the strategic weaknesses in the Ulster Squad. His appointment will show Ulster exactly how good or otherwise the existing bank of coaches are, and whether they were being stymied by MA. The forthcoming season should be used to build depth in the playing squad but now they also have an opportunity to further test the coaching team.
The reality is that Anscombe wasn't forced out by the players but by the departure of Humphreys, as it would be very difficult for Ulster to recruit a like for like replacement as DoR, and it is indeed questionable whether Ulster should be perpetuating that arrangement anyway.
It is arguable that Humphreys was in actual fact holding Ulster back, and vice versa. His skillset didn't extend to the management of the coaching team, but rather was a collaboration with them. He needed an abrasive Anscombe-type with enough authority to manage the rest of a coaching team that were all more experienced than he was. Humphreys moving away has removed that enigma from Ulster Rugby and will allow him to add to his skill set to become the 'complete' DoR.
When Ulster recruit seriously next year they will be in a better position than they would have been. They will be looking for a Director of Rugby with complete responsibility resting on one man. That should attract the quality of candidate that otherwise wouldn't have been interested.
Les Kiss has a reputation for having great attention to detail, which is necessary to identify the strategic weaknesses in the Ulster Squad. His appointment will show Ulster exactly how good or otherwise the existing bank of coaches are, and whether they were being stymied by MA. The forthcoming season should be used to build depth in the playing squad but now they also have an opportunity to further test the coaching team.
The Great Aukster- Posts : 5246
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Re: Ulster 2014/2015
Ulster Rugby had little option other than to offer a years extension, rodders. We were well placed in the HEC to challenge for a final spot, and refusing at least the minimum one year extension for the head coach leading us to that final ,would have been foolish, and difficult to justify.
Ulster rugby didn't plan to terminate Anscombes contract at end of season. That termination was largely due to Humps sudden, and unexpected, departure, and a belief that, for whatever reason, Anscombe wasn't the man for the job without Humphs. They had to do what they believed to be in the best interests of Ulster Rugby, and they did so after a consultation with IRFU. For me, that's not a panic decision. Quick, because it had to be, and seemingly harsh, but sometimes harsh decisions have to be made.
I'm not convinced the players seized an opportunity to oust Anscombe, rodders. If there was bad feeling between the head coach and squad, then maybe Logan felt that without Humphs it was better to nip that problem in the bud, rather than let it fester into the new season, and become toxic.
Kiss has the respect of the players, and the fact that they appear to be delighted with his appointment, especially the senior players who have worked with him, allows me to believe that he may make a valuable contribution to Ulster Rugby, as DoR/head coach. Over, and above, that of Anscombe. Hopefully anyway. He deserves a chance, and none should write him off before he has even started.
Sure, maybe he will only last a few weeks, as we swoop in to sign up Scott Johnston
Ulster rugby didn't plan to terminate Anscombes contract at end of season. That termination was largely due to Humps sudden, and unexpected, departure, and a belief that, for whatever reason, Anscombe wasn't the man for the job without Humphs. They had to do what they believed to be in the best interests of Ulster Rugby, and they did so after a consultation with IRFU. For me, that's not a panic decision. Quick, because it had to be, and seemingly harsh, but sometimes harsh decisions have to be made.
I'm not convinced the players seized an opportunity to oust Anscombe, rodders. If there was bad feeling between the head coach and squad, then maybe Logan felt that without Humphs it was better to nip that problem in the bud, rather than let it fester into the new season, and become toxic.
Kiss has the respect of the players, and the fact that they appear to be delighted with his appointment, especially the senior players who have worked with him, allows me to believe that he may make a valuable contribution to Ulster Rugby, as DoR/head coach. Over, and above, that of Anscombe. Hopefully anyway. He deserves a chance, and none should write him off before he has even started.
Sure, maybe he will only last a few weeks, as we swoop in to sign up Scott Johnston
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Re: Ulster 2014/2015
Munchkin wrote:Sure, maybe he will only last a few weeks, as we swoop in to sign up Scott Johnston
Come back Mark! All is forgiven
Notch- Moderator
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Re: Ulster 2014/2015
Notch wrote:Munchkin wrote:Sure, maybe he will only last a few weeks, as we swoop in to sign up Scott Johnston
Come back Mark! All is forgiven
Agree on that!
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Rumour doing the rounds on the other channel is the IRFU want McCall back in order to line him up as Schmidt's successor.
rodders- Moderator
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It was a really messy situation for the players. Presumably Anscombe picked the team, but Humphreys did the hiring and firing of both players and coaches. Who exactly was in charge?
Sin é- Posts : 13725
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Re: Ulster 2014/2015
Sin é wrote:Maybe the IRFU decided enough was enough and decided they wanted their man in there. Maybe they are peed off that Humphreys took off to Gloucester after all the backing they have given him with extra 1m cash etc.
Sears (former CEO of Connacht) didn't have a rugby background like Logan - maybe they are afraid that Logan might have similar problems without a rugby head involved.
If the irfu we're putting 'their man' in anywhere at the minute it would be Munster Sin. Given they have had to renegotiate their debt and apply for a cash injection from the IRFU this year. Ulster were (rightly) underfunded for years under the previous boss but Logan has done very well from a business perspective.
I don't know about how Kiss is regarded from a coaching perspective in the irfu but I suspect this is purely about helping Ulster out in the short term with potential long term implications
Standulstermen- Posts : 5451
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Re: Ulster 2014/2015
Someone has an over active imagination Rodders. I can imagine David Nucifora telling his friend Joe Schmidt is that he has decided that Mark McCall (whom he has probably never even met and knows little about) is to be brought back to put him out of a job
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