French Open discussion thread

[Mad for Chelsea]

First topic message reminder :

I thought it was about time we got one of these started. While Federer surprisingly (cough cough) had the advantage of starting his campaign nice and early on day 1, Djokovic is currently in action against Sousa of Portugal. Also on at the moment we have everyone's favourite Briton... James Ward. He's been handed a tough draw against Tommy Robredo, but is battling hard, despite being a break down in the first.

We're also due our first major upset over on court 1, with Nishikori on his way out against Klizan. Injury issues? Finally we have Mahut vs Kukushkin in a pleasant match between two talented shot-makers. That one's at one set all, with the intriguing possibility of the winner meeting Isner in R2.

EDIT: in the time it took me to write this one, Ward has broken back, and is level at 3-3, well done that man .

[Gerry SA]

What I've observed of Djokovic in best of 5 set matches in recent times is that he's mentally and physically unable to be in the zone for the whole match, as he was in 2011-2012.

It's like he needs a breather and his opponents know it and can take it to him.

It's like Djokovic's body has dropped 5%, and it's not doing what his mind wants it to do.

That is complete rubbish.

Took real thought to compile you reply yeah?  

[lags72]

Tursunov and Cilic both played some very good stuff today. Tursunov about as good as I have seen from him.

Federer in particular was surprised by the quality of many of Tursunov's outright winners and recoveries, and was left shaking his head more than once.

Some less than sparkling stats for Federer to contemplate ahead of his next round : 39 U/E's and a truly dreadful BP conversion rate of 4/21. As so often, his serve at least came to the rescue, with 80% pts won when the first went in, including 15 aces.

Novak's comparative numbers were only marginally better : 37 U/E's and just 7 of 22 BP's won.

But both Djoko and Fed did what was asked of them to progress. Several other top guys who fell early at this year's RG would like to be there .......

[antonico]

What I've observed of Djokovic in best of 5 set matches in recent times is that he's mentally and physically unable to be in the zone for the whole match, as he was in 2011-2012.

It's like he needs a breather and his opponents know it and can take it to him.

It's like Djokovic's body has dropped 5%, and it's not doing what his mind wants it to do.

I'd agree this has merit - when he plays Best of Five on clay. His strengths aren't necessarily helped by the surface. His First Serve gets returned into play more often (as does almost everybody's), so his free points he normally gets on a hard court don't come on clay. And he can't take the ball as early as he wants to with the same success on clay as he can on hard courts. The inconsistent bounces on clay mess up his timing, so he has to dial back somewhat on the Groundstrokes he wants to take on the rise and rip over and over again, especially off his BH side. That just gets harder to do as consistently when you have to keep winning a 3rd Set to advance. This isn't the case on hard courts, especially a slow hard court such as in Australia. That's why he's been in 9 Finals in both Australia & US Opens, and only one at RG. And he's not serving especially well at the moment. In the 3rd Set 10th game today, serving at 4-5, he failed to make a single First Serve in play, so he was living dangerously on 2nd Serves. Luckily for Djokovic, Cilic - while being a big hitter - is still playing with the Junior's Mindset: bash the ball every time, everywhere. Cilic in fact had Set Point at 4-5 30-40, but decided to blast a FH and drove it long, when a softer hit angled shot would have closed the set right then. So Djokovic was able to escape thanks to the Cilic errors. But moving forward into the Draw, he won't be able to manage as successfully if he has to keep hitting 2nd Serves at the most crucial junctures of a match.

[kingraf]

I thought he's been in 9 Hard court finals and only one clay final because he's drawn Nadal four times before the final

[antonico]

I thought he's been in 9 Hard court finals and only one clay final because he's drawn Nadal four times before the final

Exactly. Because over Best of Five, he can't do to Nadal on clay what he can do to him on a hard court.

[The Special Juan]

I'd like to see Jerzy win this mainly because I'm a sadist and want to see the big man crushed by Djokovic.  Is there a more unlikable player about?

[Jahu]

Whata with Berdy's t-shirt,  borrowed from his gf?  Even Eurosport having a go at his shirt.

[bogbrush]

Who said Fed can win the FO?  He won it once cause Nadal got knocked out.

Save the hat,  enjoy the sunshine   

Don't they all win because everyone else isn't good enough to avoid being knocked out?

[DJB14]

Even though Gabashvili has played well this year, Federer needs to step up his level of play if he is going to take 3 sets off of Djokovic on clay. At this rate he needs to worry about Berdych also.

Interesting to see how Tsonga gets on against Djokvovic. Either we see the inspired Tsonga that almost got the job done two years ago or we'll see the one that hits 1 or 2 errors for every 1 winner.

Right now Raonic has just played a bad 3rd set but getting something going in the 4th so far.

[lags72]

Who said Fed can win the FO?  He won it once cause Nadal got knocked out.

Save the hat,  enjoy the sunshine   

Don't they all win because everyone else isn't good enough to avoid being knocked out?

Yep, that's pretty much the way it goes - always has .... always will!! In fact I think we can safely say it is a truth universally acknowledged in the world of sport (to paraphrase a certain novelist)

I have a wry smile whenever I read the old familiar 'X only won because Y got knocked out' line........ as though it carries any sort of conviction or logic.

Did you know that England "only" won the World Cup because the mighty Brazil (& defending Champions) were knocked out ....??

Brazil were sent packing by Portugal in their crucial last group stage clash.

But guess who then proved too good for Portugal in the semi finals ........ 

[HM Murdock]

I see Tsonga as a very significant obstacle for Novak.

He's playing well and is capable of brilliance if he's in the mood. Also, the crowd are bound to be strongly behind him and against Novak.

Very tough for a 4th round match.

[lags72]

Yes I think it certainly is a tough 4th round and although Novak is still for me clear favourite, the crowd will be overwhelmingly partisan. Interesting to see whether that helps JWT or adds to the pressure.

The gap since the last home Champ at RG is nowhere near (pre-Murray) Wimbledon levels, but Yannick Noah back in 83 does seem a long long time ago .........

[michael_o]

Just think that if it comes down to a QF Djokovic v. Raonic (and it looks like it will), then that is a match that I wouldn't like to call. I'm a great believer in Raonic, and maybe this will be his moment to announce himself on the world stage.

[CaledonianCraig]

If Djokovic is to fall before the semis it will be Tsonga who beats him. Raonic is just not good enough at returning serve or sticking in rallies for me. Djokovic would wear him down and put the ball back into areas Raonic wouldn't want to go.

[HM Murdock]

Just think that if it comes down to a QF Djokovic v. Raonic (and it looks like it will), then that is a match that I wouldn't like to call. I'm a great believer in Raonic, and maybe this will be his moment to announce himself on the world stage.

Yep, Raonic was just a couple of points away from beating Novak in Rome. He seem to have improved a lot this year.

He has played 6 sets against Novak on clay and has only won 1 of them though, so getting 3 off him will be tough.

[Guest]

Good too see people getting on as normal, might i suggest Jahu and kermet let things go more for tomorrows action.
Gulbis Fed and Tsonga Djo are by far the fourth round highlights, which means straight sets probably...

Womens draw decimated, most seem to think its shazzas to lose now but i really dont think its that clear cut, shes good but not great at all on the clay

Stick my neck out on one of Tsonga or Gulbis winning, but not both

[michael_o]

OK. Take on board all of these points. Raonic, not understangly, was unnerved by the horrible, hostile, French crowd tonight. But against Djokovic he will be the underdog. And who do they root for?

[DJB14]

For me one thing Raonic has over the rest of the young players is that he is the strongest mentally. I think that his game has weaknesses and he can miss shots but I never feel he its because of a lack of mental strength.

[michael_o]

Sorry, invented a new word. Should have read "understandingly". Isn't English difficult??

[lags72]

I would have gone for "understandably"

but you've got me thinking now .......

Ps ...... Maybe you actually meant to say "not surprisingly" ..........??   

[kingraf]

Interesting days tennis - Cilic will maybe feel like he missed out today - Nole wasn't awful, in general, but he played the big points pisspoorly, and I think he would have unravelled if he had to go five. Gonna sneak a bet on Tsonga in four. FedEx looked a little pedestrian, but at 33, did what was required. Nole is obviously the favourite to win the final berth in this half, but he serves that poorly against a lights out Tsonga, he's on a hiding to nothing. Then again, if he serves respectably, Tsonga needs probably to play lights out just to stand a chance. Margins are pretty fine, but Djokovic faced a Cilic who would have prepared him for some big-hitting, combined with ill-advised big hitting, Tsonga on the other hand faced Janowicz... bit like preparing for a match with Real Madrid by facing Stoke.

Think MaSha is winning this if I'm honest. Would love it if the delightful Ana Ivanovic took won a second slam.

[Guest]

Im actually in the camp that noel was pretty good today, (probably a very lonely one), his shot production was still fantastic, he does need a bit of a step up for tsonga

[Mad for Chelsea]

Raonic certainly has mental strength. Other players would have unravelled after being broken when serving for the match, and facing a DC-like crowd. But he held his nerve, and closed it out.

I worry about his game though. Unlike HM I don't see much progress over the last two years. He's got a fantastic serve, a good FH, and good hands at the net, but his BH?!?! A glaring weakness, made worse by the fact that he just doesn't trust the shot, either chipping it back with no venom, or making ridiculous efforts to run around it and play off the FH wing (more often than not just for rallying shots rather than wrestling control of the point). I would expect Nole in any sort of form to have a field day with the BHDL, to which Raonic is often exposed.

[kemet]

Good too see people getting on as normal, might i suggest Jahu and kermet let things go more for tomorrows action.
Gulbis Fed and Tsonga Djo are by far the fourth round highlights, which means straight sets probably...

Womens draw decimated, most seem to think its shazzas to lose now but i really dont think its that clear cut, shes good but not great at all on the clay

Stick my neck out on one of Tsonga or Gulbis winning, but not both

 
*Sigh* What is it with you and misspelling my username?....
 
As I remarked before, not a good why to win friends and influence people; and I do not literally mean you are trying to be my friend; it's simply an expression to mean it is not a good way of swaying one to your point of view.
 
Anyway, although I was unaware that someone made you a moderator, I will apologize for derailing the thread by being baited by Jahu.

[CJB]

Out of interest does anyone know who will start on centre on Tueaday. Usually the defending female champion but Bartoli obviously isn't playing?

[The Special Juan]

Number 1 seed would be my guess.

[naxroy]

monfils fognini, murray kohli and gasguet verdasco are tomorrows more interesting matches


my bet is:

nadal
lajovic

anderson
ferrer

g. garcia lopez
monfils

verdasco
murray

[antonico]

Just think that if it comes down to a QF Djokovic v. Raonic (and it looks like it will), then that is a match that I wouldn't like to call. I'm a great believer in Raonic, and maybe this will be his moment to announce himself on the world stage.

The Tsonga match is no "gimme" for Djokovic. They played here two years ago and Tsonga held Match Point twice in that 5 setter. Last year, Tsonga was the other losing Semi-Finalist. Tsonga has gotten to the 4th Round not having lost a set. So Djokovic has a long way to go before Raonic. Clay is actually the best surface for Tsonga against Djokovic. This upcoming 4th Rounder between them could be a real scrap.

[socal1976]

Tough draw for Djokovic here as his section has played out mostly to the seeding. Cillic, Tsonga, and then Raonic. I think he will come through and am hoping that Federer gets to the semis as well. It is always fun to see Djoko v. Fed as there is a different energy about the match and more tension and emotion from both players.

[HM Murdock]

The Tsonga match is no "gimme" for Djokovic. They played here two years ago and Tsonga held Match Point twice in that 5 setter.

He actually had 4 match points! Tsonga was almost unplayable for much of that match.

He hasn't looked anywhere near that level in the season so far but appears to be finding some form in this tournament.

[Born Slippy]

I don't see Raonic as a threat to Djokovic here. Just too lacking in both real shot making ability and nerve. If Djokovic is out of form he might manage a set but otherwise it will be a comprehensive beat-down.

The real threat for Novak is against Tsonga in the next round who, although he has been out of form for most of the season, has looked in decent form at RG.

[Jahu]

Boring day today, apart from Murray-Kohl.

Enjoy the Saturday people

[Born Slippy]

Monfils v Fognini and Gasquet v Verdasco have the potential to be awesome.

Bit bizarre that one of Sock or Lajovic will reach R4. Which seeds were in that section?

[The Special Juan]

Monfils v Fognini and Gasquet v Verdasco have the potential to be awesome.

Bit bizarre that one of Sock or Lajovic will reach R4. Which seeds were in that section?

Almugro and Haas, both of whom retired in the first set of their first round.

[The Special Juan]

Karlovic v Anderson today. That'll get the punters flocking.

[lags72]

The Monfils/Fognini Show .........

Roll up roll up to see who will be the flashiest or most extrovert .......  

And hopefully there'll be some good tennis from them too.

[socal1976]

Foggy is a bizarre player who can look like a world beater and then look like he should be playing on the challengers tour all within the span of a single point. Monfils is a lot of the same thing going on as Foggy. Gael has so much athletic ability it is bizarre that he has failed to do very much in his tennis career.

[The Special Juan]

But that's just it socal. He's athletic but I don't think he offers much aside from that. He's a bit like Ferrer except the Spaniard has good groundies.

[lags72]

I think you're being somewhat unkind & dismissive in that assessment TSJ.

He is surely more than just athletic - there is a lot of natural talent there too IMO. But for whatever reason - lack of focus/tactical awareness/dedication ?? - he has achieved less than many others who I would say actually have less ability than he does.

[kingraf]

Gael is a way better athlete than David, his probably a better athlete than anyone in the game, at least anyone I've seen. Has a huge serve, and probably the biggest forehand when he opens up, (120 mph, I think). Hard to compare the physical gifts he was handed with David's.

[The Special Juan]

Maybe I am and I'd be willing to take it back but I'm always hearing from commentators and pundits alike how athletic Monfils is. I rarely hear anything about his forehand, backhand, serve etc from them.

[The Special Juan]

Away from me being a tool, Kvitova v Kuzzy is a good match. It seems to be all on Kvitova's racquet - either she's hitting winners or making errors. I can't recall too many Kuzzy winners.

[Born Slippy]

This Kuznetsova v. Kvitova match is high class. Shame they had to play so early. Ana gone as well. Not many former champs left now.

In relation to Monfils, he has high quality ground-strokes and a massive serve. Problem being that a large proportion of the time he fails to unleash them.

[lags72]

Come on TSJ ..... you know how lazy (some) commentators & pundits - including ex-players  - can be in attaching convenient labels ....!

I'd love to hear what current ATP tour guys make of him - and I don't mean just the usual public consumption platitudes & niceties in the wake of a loss or defeat. He has earned a damn good living from tennis, but the REAL thoughts of his fellow pros would help us understand why it is that he has not made even more of a career that once seemed destined for much better things.

[The Special Juan]

Come on TSJ ..... you know how lazy (some) commentators & pundits - including ex-players  - can be in attaching convenient labels ....!

I'd love to hear what current ATP tour guys make of him - and I don't mean just the usual public consumption platitudes & niceties in the wake of a loss or defeat. He has earned a damn good living from tennis, but the REAL thoughts of his fellow pros would help us understand why it is that he has not made of a career that once seemed destined for better things.

Heh heh, fair point. How many times have I heard Sue Barker calling Ferrer "dogged/a terrier" and *insert male French player's name here* a "talented Frenchman"?

[socal1976]

Gael is a way better athlete than David, his probably a better athlete than anyone in the game, at least anyone I've seen. Has a huge serve, and probably the biggest forehand when he opens up, (120 mph,  I think). Hard to compare the physical gifts he was handed with David's.

KR for one so young you often make a lot of sense. In my opinion his natural power on all his shots is the thing that makes his lack of success so disappointing. I would rate him as the most athletically gifted player of his generation more so than Murray, Nadal, and Djokovic. He has more power than all of them and is taller and just as fast. But of course he hasn't accomplished a tenth what any of those guys have.

[The Special Juan]

Wonder if Dementieva and Clijsters ever regret retiring?

[kingraf]

Gael is a way better athlete than David, his probably a better athlete than anyone in the game, at least anyone I've seen. Has a huge serve, and probably the biggest forehand when he opens up, (120 mph,  I think). Hard to compare the physical gifts he was handed with David's.

KR for one so young you often make a lot of sense. In my opinion his natural power on all his shots is the thing that makes his lack of success so disappointing. I would rate him as the most athletically gifted player of his generation more so than Murray, Nadal, and Djokovic. He has more power than all of them and is taller and just as fast. But of course he hasn't accomplished a tenth what any of those guys have.

Very true, Nadal, Djokovic, and Murray are phenomenal athletes, but they don't hold a candle to Gael. He's like a tennis equivalent to Russell Westbrook, saw, athletic, powerful, and a brain fart away from losing his bearing

[Gerry SA]

Once again Nadal's length has been damn awful.

He's been getting stung by a relative unknown.

Djokovic will have a field day with all these mid court balls Nadal's giving up.

[ChequeredJersey]

Same as last year then


Mayer's not an unknown though

[Sponsored content]