South Africa v Wales - 2nd Test, Nelspruit

First topic message reminder :

South Africa:
15 Willie le Roux, 14 Cornal Hendricks, 13 JP Pietersen, 12 Jan Serfontein, 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Morné Steyn, 9 Fourie du Preez, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Willem Alberts, 6 Francois Louw, 5 Victor Matfield (c), 4 Flip van der Merwe ,3 Jannie du Plessis, 2 Bismarck du Plessis, 1 Tendai Mtawarira.

Replacements:
16 Schalk Brits, 17 Gurthrö Steenkamp, 18 Coenie Oosthuizen, 19 Lodewyk de Jager, 20 Schalk Burger, 21 Ruan Pienaar, 22 Wynand Olivier,
23 Lwazi Mvovo.


Wales:
15 Liam Williams, 14 Alex Cuthbert, 13 Jonathan Davies, 12 Jamie Roberts, 11 George North, 10 Dan Biggar, 9 Mike Phillips
8 Taulupe Faletau, 7 Josh Turnbull, 6 Dan Lydiate, 5 Alun-Wyn Jones (c), 4 Luke Charteris, 3 Samson Lee, 2 Ken Owens, 1 Gethin Jenkins

Replacements:
16 Matthew Rees, 17 Paul James, 18 Aaron Jarvis, 19 Jake Ball, 20 Dan Baker, 21 Gareth Davies, 22 James Hook, 23 Matthew Morgan


Date: Saturday, June 21
Venue: Mbombela Stadium, Nelspruit
Kick-off: 15.00 (13.00 GMT)
Referee: Steve Walsh (Australia)
Assistant referees: Romain Poite (France), Francesco Pastrana (Argentina)
TMO: Glenn Newman (New Zealand)

AWJ was right...Hendricks foot was going into touch anyway...jesus

As I said, a massive kick to the crotch. Hard luck Wales. Would have been better letting him in, at least it would have been a harder kick. Neither of those drop goal attempts seemed on really.

Unlucky wales
Well played

You have too feel so, so sory for Wales. they was so close.

I think mike Phillips had the best game he has had for a while. Gethin Jenkins also had a great game.

Hard luck Wales, a very good game today.

Neutralee wrote:Really feel sorry for Wales, they deserve more, but sadly they just cannot close games out, their problem is that they are constantly trying to close games out instead of going on to win by more.

Agreed; the damage was done when Wales didn't put more points on the board with the man advantage. I still think SA would have scored at the end without the penalty try (North has missed soft tackles in both games leading to tries).

Trademark Wales unfortunately, build a healthy lead only to concede two scores in the last 10 mins. SA hadn't been able to score against 15 before that crucial period.

Commiserations to Wales, tough loss to take. Springboks fortunate to win this one, but they showed immense guts to come back against a charged up Wales.

Cuthbert and Roberts were immense, Wales played the rught game when they got ahead, slowed everything down and frustrated the Boks who couldn't get momentum going.

A weird game and a few 50/50 decisions.

Great and tense game of rugby.

Morne Steyn looks lost on attack, slow, pedantic and no vision

Great performance. No composure in the end. Kinda like Ireland against the All Blacks. The dumb thing about that foul was that he was in a position to make a legal tackle but fouled him instead. Doh!

to be honest I thought north had already dragged Hendricks foot into touch? and liam Williams would have still got him into touch if he had tackled legally.

I am absolutely gutted, firstly thought it was a 3pm kick off so missed the first half and to see us lose like that

Cracking game, gotta say the welsh played some great stuff and deserved better from it. Heartbreaking way to lose, but as an Englishman who has no love for Steve Walsh... something of an understatement... It was the right call.

Gutting as it is, you have to take some solace from the performance.

biggar had a very good game. only 24 caps. this has shown he is the 10 for the future. could have kept it in the last minutes, but overall HE WAS THE 10 who had the better game. well done dan

welshy824 (new) wrote:to be honest I thought north had already dragged Hendricks foot into touch? and liam Williams would have still got him into touch if he had tackled legally.

I am absolutely gutted, firstly thought it was a 3pm kick off so missed the first half and to see us lose like that

First half was just as gutting, throwing away a 17 point lead

Hardly a surprise, but very classy from Quinnell complementing Walsh on how he handled the penalty try at the end.   

Congrats Biltong. Your guys dug in there and pulled it off. Well done.

welshy824 (new) wrote:to be honest I thought north had already dragged Hendricks foot into touch?

Looked like it was going into touch to me.

Controversial

Really do not agree with that penalty try at the end. Well played Wales, horrible to lose a game in that way.

Surprised vermuelen got motm, thought there were half a dozen players who were more deserving.

Jenkins and matfield were both superb!

gutted for wales. but unfortunately nothing controversial about the second penalty try. his foot didnt go into touch and the only thing that matters is whether the tmo and ref agree that a try would have been scored had liam williams not been present.

wales606 wrote:

welshy824 (new) wrote:to be honest I thought north had already dragged Hendricks foot into touch?

Looked like it was going into touch to me.

Controversial

I guess walsh was concentrating on the illegal tackle, but wish he would have looked at that first.
I do sometimes question why I love this sport so much? we seem to have no luck

quinsforever wrote:gutted for wales. but unfortunately nothing controversial about the second penalty try. his foot didnt go into touch and the only thing that matters is whether the tmo and ref agree that a try would have been scored had liam williams not been present.

Exactly, his foot was going into touch before Williams laid a hand on him from the look of it

To all the Welsh guys on here I am gutted for you, sickening loss.

Boks did not deserve that to me and thank you for the HUGE wake up call. Your team was seriously good today.

Regarding SA, I have too much to put down for now and need to gather my thoughts. But one thing is that I think SA should keep tests against tier 1 nations for Pretoria, JHB, Cape Town and Durban.

Anyone else feel physically sick

Jhamer25 wrote:Anyone else feel physically sick

Yes, it just happens far too often now, is it just me or do Wales hardly ever seem to have comfortable wins over teams, instead things going down to the last 5 minutes :/

As gutted as I am for Wales the last decision was correct, it was a shoulder charge, of which George north had slipped off him and he was in the process of scoring.

As a Wales supporter I would be more aggrieved about the double yellow and penalty try first half, or the two phases before SA scored in the second.

Done and done though, SA took it throu sheer guts and the confidence in their ability to score. Wales have to work on every aspect of their line out, it's poor

The England game in 2012 was the only Welsh game i've enjoyed for ages,

I hate close finishes...

HammerofThunor wrote:Congrats Biltong. Your guys dug in there and pulled it off. Well done.

Thanks mate, nailbiting stuff this. I have nothing but respect for this Welsh performance.

There were some odd decisions, the one was when Walsh wanted the replay sped up because he decided a slow motion looks worse than it is, so
I suspect there will be a law change now that says TMO decisions must be done at normal speed

Biltong wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:Congrats Biltong. Your guys dug in there and pulled it off. Well done.

Thanks mate, nailbiting stuff this. I have nothing but respect for this Welsh performance.

There were some odd decisions, the one was when Walsh wanted the replay sped up because he decided a slow motion looks worse than it is, so
I suspect there will be a law change now that says TMO decisions must be done at normal speed

That was odd, but definitely knocked on

To all the Welsh guys on here I am gutted for you, sickening loss.

Boks did not deserve that to me and thank you for the HUGE wake up call. Your team was seriously good today.

Regarding SA, I have too much to put down for now and need to gather my thoughts. But one thing is that I think SA should keep tests against tier 1 nations for Pretoria, JHB, Cape Town and Durban.

This was one of those games when you say, it is a shame, that one team has too lose.

Even though i am not one of Wales biggest fans, they should not have lost that game.

Im sad but i guess its progress . unfortunatly we can't hold onto a lead against the top sides. we gave south Africa a game today and fair play to them they never give up

wales606 wrote:

quinsforever wrote:gutted for wales. but unfortunately nothing controversial about the second penalty try. his foot didnt go into touch and the only thing that matters is whether the tmo and ref agree that a try would have been scored had liam williams not been present.

Exactly, his foot was going into touch before Williams laid a hand on him from the look of it

Not sure what game you were watching but he wasn't in touch and he wasn't going into touch - take the offending player out and it's a certain try. Very very lucky there wasn't a yellow card. Can't believe he didn't try to tackle him legally or just let him score in the corner - sideline conversion would have been interesting.

Jhamer25 wrote:Anyone else feel physically sick

feel? try been.

How can it be a penalty try when the ball was dropping before Liam hit?

Ball wasn't dropped before the "thug tackle" it was dislodged by Liam's knee.

Ps. I'm sure SA would've scored and won from the resultant penalty.

Wales mucked up 20 mins earlier by changing tactic. trying to get penalties and not catching their own lineout.

Otagolad wrote:

wales606 wrote:

quinsforever wrote:gutted for wales. but unfortunately nothing controversial about the second penalty try. his foot didnt go into touch and the only thing that matters is whether the tmo and ref agree that a try would have been scored had liam williams not been present.

Exactly, his foot was going into touch before Williams laid a hand on him from the look of it

Not sure what game you were watching but he wasn't in touch and he wasn't going into touch - take the offending player out and it's a certain try. Very very lucky there wasn't a yellow card. Can't believe he didn't try to tackle him legally or just let him score in the corner - sideline conversion would have been interesting.

If he had tried to lay a hand on him (and he had chance) it could have been a try saving tackle.

But no, he had to go with the shoulder....

Why do we always throw these games away... I'm sick to death of it, I really am

Oh, and congrats SA....

Ireland, England and now SA have a shown Wales simply can't defend.

I absolutely agree with the decision - if LW is taken out of the equation it's a certain try imo. Although the team will no doubt stick by their mate they will be livid when they get a proper look at it. Just any attempt at a legal tackle and the try is surely prevented.

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:I absolutely agree with the decision - if LW is taken out of the equation it's a certain try imo. Although the team will no doubt stick by their mate they will be livid when they get a proper look at it. Just any attempt at a legal tackle and the try is surely prevented.

and even if not prevented, Steyn would shave had to take his chances with a touchline conversion and atlhgouh he has history against red shirted teams with the se pressure kicks we don't even test him and prefer the gift-the-game option

Otagolad wrote:

wales606 wrote:

quinsforever wrote:gutted for wales. but unfortunately nothing controversial about the second penalty try. his foot didnt go into touch and the only thing that matters is whether the tmo and ref agree that a try would have been scored had liam williams not been present.

Exactly, his foot was going into touch before Williams laid a hand on him from the look of it

Not sure what game you were watching but he wasn't in touch and he wasn't going into touch - take the offending player out and it's a certain try. Very very lucky there wasn't a yellow card. Can't believe he didn't try to tackle him legally or just let him score in the corner - sideline conversion would have been interesting.

you obviously aren't familiar with Liam Williams. every match i have watched him play he tries a nasty cheap shot that is borderline card-able. any other 15 would have made an effort to make the tackle legally. Liam Williams's first instincts are to put the shoulder or elbow in to the head.

vs ireland (after try scored)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-XGWHmIVeo

vs blues

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-full-back-liam-williams-7016325

vs ulster

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC6tVwWvYnY#t=32

have to say whoever is writing the bbc sport live coverage is a D!ck, so many snide comments

Well that was an eye opener. SA extremely lucky with that turn of events. How often does a wingers try turn into a penalty try that desperately needed to avoid a sideline conversion.

very lucky indeed. Hansen will probably be taking a good note of that one. When Wales turned the pace on the ball once again the boks werent making their one on one tackles.

Bigars decision at the end to attempt a snap drop goal from 50 was amateurish. Pressure decision making at its wordt. Wales should have backed themselves to persevere with taking the ball up, though they werent doing that well either.

Bit lucky on the Welsh finger try as well. Thought Welsh controlled the match well- a difficult one but generally correct in the tough decisions.

Just watched the final try - Hendricks didn't touch the line, and he wasn't going to... Also the Welsh player had a brain fade... How do you even?

kingraf wrote:Just watched the final try -  Hendricks didn't touch the line, and he wasn't going to... Also the Welsh player had a brain fade... How do you even?

yeah dont get that one, never looked like going out. Wishful thinking perhaps...

I disagree with "taking the player out of the equation because of an illegal tackle", he was still there, if he had actually wrapped his arms around Hendricks would have been bundled into touch. How can you completely ignore the position of a defender because of an act of foul play?

Netherless, good performance by Wales, discipline costed us.

I agree with the rule - it's obviously made to prevent bone-headed play. That was idiotic to the nth degree and deserves the result.

kingraf wrote:Just watched the final try -  Hendricks didn't touch the line, and he wasn't going to... Also the Welsh player had a brain fade... How do you even?

Nothing surprises me with Liam Williams. Anyway, the issue isn't if he's in touch if Williams attempts a legitimate tackle, he would have been but thats beside the point- Williams didn't attempt a lawful tackle so that doesn't enter into it. The issue is then whether he would have scored if Williams wasn't there at all and he would have. You can't say he wouldn't have scored if the player had done something differently because, well, he didn't.

I agree with the result because it is quite thuggery of Williams, just disagree with the justification of ignoring the position of him because of a bad tackle - it doesn't make sense.

Well it was a penalty offence that prevented a try. The logic can't be; if the player does a different action, would that also prevent a try? Because he didn't do that- he didn't have the presence of minder the ability to do the right thing so that logic doesn't make sense for me. It has to be judged by what he did do, not on hypotheticals.