Scotland Summer Tour, Game 4: South Africa v Scotland, 28 June

NeilyBroon wrote:I still don't understand why everyone's clamouring to have heathcote in the starting 15, we've barely seen him play for club all season! As for weir, I think he's lost a bit of form but is nowhere near as bad as people are making out. Injury ruled him out of Glasgow selection, then Russell took his place, its therefore not surprising the lad is rusty. I think our playmaker roles very much depend on Glasgow next season, injuries etc. Its worrying enough that we only have 2 club teams and depend on one for all the key positions. If heathcote does well at Edinburgh great, hopefully hart and him can help each other develop as players. All I'll say is thank god Laidlaw won't be there, he could ruin the performance of Aaron cruden!

Biltong wrote:RDW, the best teams in the world has 4-5 top professional teams, if you look at the AB's in 2011, they had to go down to their fourth best flyhalf to complete the RWC.

Look at SA at the moment, Morne back to Europe, Goosen injured, Lambie injured, we had to put two rookie fly Halves on the pitch yesterday.

BigGee wrote:

Biltong wrote:RDW, the best teams in the world has 4-5 top professional teams, if you look at the AB's in 2011, they had to go down to their fourth best flyhalf to complete the RWC.

Look at SA at the moment, Morne back to Europe, Goosen injured, Lambie injured, we had to put two rookie fly Halves on the pitch yesterday.

I think at the moment we are not comparing ourselves with the best in the world. That is why we ended up playing an out of window test against you guys. At the moment it is not realistic for us to expect to compete against the big 3 SH teams over a series at the end of a long season, even the better NH teams struggle with that. We can still be competitive, particularly at home and in one off games though and i would hope that in the future we will get back to the same level as the other Nh teams.

At the moment our short term goals should be to be competitive in the 6N, hopefully be able to win some of our AI games against better teams and to get out of our group in the world cup. Those are realistic goals and won't be acheived by spreading ourselves to thin. Two reasonably well funded, competitive teams at home and being realistic that some of our better players will inevitably move on to earn more money in other leagues is where we are at just now. In ten years time that may be different, I hope it is. Believe it or not, in so many ways Scottish rugby is in its healthiest state probably since the advent of professionalism. We may finally be getting to grips with it but we are never realistically going to have the resources of other countries.

RDW_Scotland wrote:But given our problem is our best 23, how would a 3rd pro team fix that? Bear in mind we're not just limited to Edinburgh and Glasgow players - there's probably as many Scotland players playing out of Scotland than in it.


Playing numbers in Scotland are significantly less that every 6N team - even Italy - so we're never going to be at a level standing for strength in depth.

I'll maintain it - Scotland's problem is the best 23, not squad depth.

Scottish Rugby Academy plans to be advanced
11/04/14 Posted in
Scottish Rugby (http://www.scottishrugby.org/news/14/04/11/scottish-rugby-academy-plans-be-advanced-0)

Scottish Rugby is hastening the development of its new Academy structure as part of its desire to raise the standard of play in Scotland.

The implementation of a new Academy structure was announced in December as part of a wide-ranging review of Scottish Rugby that saw the creation of five new rugby development plans for the game in Scotland. More information on these plans can we found on this website.

The Scottish Rugby Board has recently committed to funding for all four academies – which are to be based regionally in Caledonia in the North, the Borders; Glasgow and the west; and Edinburgh – with a view to the first regional academy centres being identified and going live during the 2014-15 season.

Scottish Rugby’s Chief Executive Mark Dodson said: “I am delighted to be able to announce that we have committed funding for the establishment of four new Academies spread across Scotland to improve the development of our players.

“We anticipate that the academies will be located in our four regions of Caledonia and the North; the Borders; Glasgow and the West; and Edinburgh and the east. We also intend to enhance our links with London Scottish and are currently engaged in dialogue with them around their academy plans.

“We are currently looking at various locations around Scotland which offer strong support for our plans to provide an environment in which a robust and reliable flow of the best young talent, boys and girls, can be developed,” Dodson added.

“The plans for our academies are being crafted with the full support of our rugby performance staff and those within our professional teams who are responsible for nurturing our Elite Development Players at present. We have established an implementation working group comprising Scottish Rugby staff and members of our Council and clubs.

“The key is that our structures must accelerate the opportunities for our best young talent to thrive and be ready to compete for Scotland on the world stage.

“This significant step change has received positive support from both our clubs and our wider stakeholders as we seek to enhance our game and widen the base.”

The Scottish Rugby Academy initiative is the first paper to be implemented from a wide-ranging review undertaken into the game in Scotland. Other rugby development initiatives to be implemented are in the following areas:

• Club rugby development
• Schools rugby development
• Women's rugby development and
• Rugby coach development.

Further information on these documents can be found on this website and further details on their implementation  will be conveyed in due course.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Agreed - at the moment, for this tour, I thought the duties would be shared between Cross and Welsh at tighthead, and Reid and Dickinson at loosehead.

Moray Low will always be a tighthead in my book, and I don't think he's as good as Cross, Welsh or Murray.

I think with Murray at Glasgow next season Welsh may not find himself first choice, but it will be an interesting battle, particularly if Cusack returns to fitness.

Captain_Sensible wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Agreed - at the moment, for this tour, I thought the duties would be shared between Cross and Welsh at tighthead, and Reid and Dickinson at loosehead.

Moray Low will always be a tighthead in my book, and I don't think he's as good as Cross, Welsh or Murray.

I think with Murray at Glasgow next season Welsh may not find himself first choice, but it will be an interesting battle, particularly if Cusack returns to fitness.

I was also surprised at the selector's attitude to Welsh. He had a huge season for Glasgow - really strong on the tight and excellent in the loose. Moray Low increasingly looks like a bit of a puddin', and Murray isn't exactly a spring chicken. With Cusack's fitness in perennial doubt, and the loosehead side well served by Grant, Reid and Dickinson, Cross and Welsh should be regarded as our first choice THs.

TJ wrote:I was awaqy and saw only the USA game - can anyone sum up for me a bit? ( other than a large pile of mince?)  Seems like Cotter did get to see most contenders and now should have an idea of his preferred team.  Who did their reputations some good and who contributed to the large steaming pile?  Do we yet know our best half back combo?

Scotland tour ends in heaviest loss for 17 years
by LEWIS STUART AT NELSON MANDELA BAY STADIUM

South Africa 55-6 Scotland

FROM months out, this looked like a disaster in the making but nobody could have predicted just how awful it would be.

Eight tries to nil was the reflection of a gulf in class between the sides when it came to power, strength and clinical finishing, and the only solace Scotland could find was that they had managed to stem the flow for about half an hour in the middle of the game before a sin bin opened the floodgates again.

On a statistical level, it was about as bad as it gets. Only the 68-10 1997 defeat by South Africa at Murrayfield stands worse in the annals of Scottish rugby history and at least Scotland did manage one try that day, which they never looked like doing in Port Elizabeth. Slightly more worryingly, when you add in the 51-3 defeat by Wales in March and not only have Scotland conceded 50 points in two of their last five games but both of them stand in the top four of the all-time list of Test defeats.

Which is not to say that there is a great deal in common between the matches. While the Cardiff defeat was supposed to be the best team Scotland could muster at the time — selection aberrations excepted — this side was anything but.

They had been run ragged on a round-the-world trip, and then had a dozen experienced players removed by the decision to play the match outside the official Test window, leaving Vern Cotter, the head coach, with no option other than to throw a bunch of novices to the lions. The result was almost as gruesome as that metaphor makes it sound.

Look at the side, from four to 12 — Tim Swinson at lock, to Peter Horne at centre — you had nine players with a total of 63 caps between them before the match started, ranging from Duncan Weir, the most experienced with 14, to Adam Ashe with none.

It may have been an experimental South African side but when your newcomer trying to force his way into the team is Schalk Burger, the 70-cap veteran on the comeback from a serious illness, and the team also includes Victor Matfield on 112 caps and Fourie Du Preez on 69, it was not particularly adventurous nor short on experience.

Scotland started nervously and were 19 points down before they had really seen the ball apart from restarting after the tries. Having been penalised at the first ruck, that set the pattern for the opening quarter and they were always chasing the game from there.

“If we take away our mistakes and the things we offered them, some of the easy ball we gave them, then we can quickly cut down the difference. If we improve physically and technically then we cut down their dominance at the breakdown, there are a lot of things we can develop and work on,” said Cotter afterwards.

“We gave away too many penalties. We were penalised early in the game which gave them access to our end of the paddock and they scored from those opportunities. We came back and applied pressure on them in the latter part of the first half and their early penalty in the second half demonstrated that we had them thinking a bit more about the game and position, and the inroads they were making.

“Then a yellow card tipped it their way again. Once we got that it became difficult and then we ran out of steam. Physically they dominated the greater part of the contact zone, especially in the latter part of the game.”

He was right. Penalties gave South Africa an early line-out five yards out; an old-fashioned peel round the back and the big forwards were pounding the Scots line until Marcell Coetzee, the flanker, forced his way over with only a little more than three minutes on the clock.

The pressure continued with the Springbok physical dominance in the backs even more pronounced than it was in the forwards, leading to quick-fire tries by Willie Le Roux, the full back, after Jan Serfontein, the centre, had set up the position and for Lwazi Mvovo, the wing, who outpaced the defence onto a chip through from JP Pietersen, the other centre.

That was the point where Scotland had a choice…they could crumble or they could fight back. To their credit, they managed to make it the latter, though they were making too many mistakes to be able to maintain the pressure for long enough to turn it into serious scoring chances. The error rate has been an issue all tour, regardless of the experience of the side on display, and has to be one of Cotter’s main concerns.

Still, they did stop the flow of tries and their attacking build-up looked promising if only they could learn to get the key pressure passes to stick, and they made sure they would not be “nilled” with Duncan Weir getting two penalties, both from long range into such wind as there was.

By the second half, as Cotter pointed out, the Springboks were taking things a bit more seriously and even took a penalty shot at goal, landed by Handre Pollard, their debutant stand-off, who was to finish the game with five successful conversions as well as that kick for a personal contribution of 13 points.

If there was going to be a comeback, however, they had to keep 15 men on the pitch, so when Swinson was harshly sin binned for what was judged to be a no-arms tackle, it inevitably petered out. South Africa scored from the line-out that followed the penalty kick to touch — Coetzee again on the back of the rolling maul — and added another when Scotland’s short-handed defence was caught on the outside and Pietersen was judged by the TMO to have grounded the ball successfully.

By now they were trying too hard to try to claw their way back into the game, while exhaustion was also starting to take its toll as even more mistakes crept in. When Mvovo intercepted Henry Pyrgos’s pass to head for the try line, there was no way back and the Springboks added a late gloss to the scoreline when Lood De Jager, the huge lock making his first start, twice capitalised on Scotland blunders to force his way over for a couple of scores.

And so, not quite a record defeat, but humiliation nevertheless. The lesson is as much about officialdom as rugby, though. Scotland were never given a chance by the people who made sure that every possible barrier was put in their way from missing players to an idiotic tour schedule.

“It is obviously disappointing to lose, and by that amount, but there were some encouraging performances by several players,” said Cotter. “I still don’t like losing but I was encouraged by the spirit and determination of the players. We will go forward with a plan to improve physically, improve technically and to apply tactics that suit us and the profile of the team. I go away with plenty of things to think about, which is good.”

Scorers: South Africa: Tries: Coetzee 2, Le Roux, Mvovo 2, Pietersen, De Jager 2. Cons: Pollard 5. Pen: Pollard (43). Scotland: Pens: Weir 2.

South Africa: W le Roux; C Hendricks, J Pietersen, J Serfontein, L Mvovo; H Pollard, F du Preez; C Oosthuizen, B du Plessis, J du Plessis, L de Jager, V Matfield (c), M Coetzee, S Burger, D Vermeulen. Subs: Z Kirchner for Le Roud, 22-27 and 74. M Boshoff, for Pietersen 71. F Hougaard for Du Preez 29. T Nyakane for Oosthuizen 67. A Strauss for B du Plessis 61. M van der Merwe for J du Plessis 49. S Lewies for Matfield 71. T Mohoje for Coetzee 67

Scotland: S Hogg; S Maitland, N De Luca, P Horne, T Seymour; D Weir, H Pyrgos; A Dickinson, R Ford , G Cross, T Swinson, G Gilchrist, R Harley, C Fusaro, A Ashe. Subs: P Murchie for Hogg 66. D Fife for Maitland 53. G Hart for Pyrgos 75. M Low for Dickinson 78. K Bryce for Ford 60. E Murray for Cross 50. J Gray for Swinson 60. T Holmes for Fusaro 49.

TJ wrote:I was awaqy and saw only the USA game - can anyone sum up for me a bit? ( other than a large pile of mince?)  Seems like Cotter did get to see most contenders and now should have an idea of his preferred team.  Who did their reputations some good and who contributed to the large steaming pile?  Do we yet know our best half back combo?

funnyExiledScot wrote:My 23 for the AIs:

1.Grant 2.Ford 3.Cross 4.J Gray 5.R Gray 6.Harley 7.Barclay 8.Denton 9.Cusiter(c) 10.Russell 11.Visser 12.Dunbar 13.Bennett 14.Seymour 15.Hogg

16.Reid 17.MacArthur 18.Welsh 19.Gilchrist 20.Brown 21.Laidlaw 22.Jackson 23.Maitland

I have assumed Matt Scott will not be fit enough to participate.

funnyExiledScot wrote:My 23 for the AIs:

1.Grant 2.Ford 3.Cross 4.J Gray 5.R Gray 6.Harley 7.Barclay 8.Denton 9.Cusiter(c) 10.Russell 11.Visser 12.Dunbar 13.Bennett 14.Seymour 15.Hogg

16.Reid 17.MacArthur 18.Welsh 19.Gilchrist 20.Brown 21.Laidlaw 22.Jackson 23.Maitland

I have assumed Matt Scott will not be fit enough to participate.

funnyExiledScot wrote:My 23 for the AIs:

1.Grant 2.Ford 3.Cross 4.J Gray 5.R Gray 6.Harley 7.Barclay 8.Denton 9.Cusiter(c) 10.Russell 11.Visser 12.Dunbar 13.Bennett 14.Seymour 15.Hogg

16.Reid 17.MacArthur 18.Welsh 19.Gilchrist 20.Brown 21.Laidlaw 22.Jackson 23.Maitland

I have assumed Matt Scott will not be fit enough to participate.

BigGee wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:My 23 for the AIs:

1.Grant 2.Ford 3.Cross 4.J Gray 5.R Gray 6.Harley 7.Barclay 8.Denton 9.Cusiter(c) 10.Russell 11.Visser 12.Dunbar 13.Bennett 14.Seymour 15.Hogg

16.Reid 17.MacArthur 18.Welsh 19.Gilchrist 20.Brown 21.Laidlaw 22.Jackson 23.Maitland

I have assumed Matt Scott will not be fit enough to participate.

I don't think Grant will be fit for the AI's either, so I imagine LH will be between Dickinson and Reid. I imagine Murray will still be in the reckoning at TH as well. Hopefully they will all be getting some regular game time and so we can see who has some form.

Otherwise, that would pretty much be my team as well, with maybe a couple of changes on the bench. Maitland needs to show some form, or else Lamont will be breathing down his neck and I am not sure about the back up hooker slot. McArthur nor Lawson has convinced, I wonder if we will see Byrce, Brown or McInally get some regular games and come into the reckoning. I don't think anyone has nailed down the FH place either but happy to stick with Russell for now as he does seem to have the potential. The good thing about the half back player moves this summer, is that they now should all be playing and again hopefully we will get to see who really is in form. I would still really like to see what Heathcote can do if he is given a chance.

funnyExiledScot wrote:The slots for hooker are very much up for grabs, and I wouldn't rule out an indian summer for Dougie Hall, who finished last season the best SQ hooker. I agree that the likes of Brown, Bryce and McInally could very well force themselves into the reckoning.

For example we know already that McInally will be a phenominal asset in the loose, and he really ought to have nailed his lineout throwing by now having worked on it for a year - at least in training. So I guess the question will be whether he can cope with the scrummage and hooking back the ball. He could be an exciting option, but he'll need to be featuring at hooker in the Rabo before Christmas to have a realistic chance of the World Cup, because we'll need to see him in the 6 Nations under proper pressure.

George Carlin wrote:Whilst we're wringing our hands and getting the hairshirts out of the drawer, can anyone shed any light as to how this whole set up is developing?:

Scottish Rugby Academy plans to be advanced
11/04/14 Posted in
Scottish Rugby (http://www.scottishrugby.org/news/14/04/11/scottish-rugby-academy-plans-be-advanced-0)

Scottish Rugby is hastening the development of its new Academy structure as part of its desire to raise the standard of play in Scotland.

The implementation of a new Academy structure was announced in December as part of a wide-ranging review of Scottish Rugby that saw the creation of five new rugby development plans for the game in Scotland. More information on these plans can we found on this website.

The Scottish Rugby Board has recently committed to funding for all four academies – which are to be based regionally in Caledonia in the North, the Borders; Glasgow and the west; and Edinburgh – with a view to the first regional academy centres being identified and going live during the 2014-15 season.

Scottish Rugby’s Chief Executive Mark Dodson said: “I am delighted to be able to announce that we have committed funding for the establishment of four new Academies spread across Scotland to improve the development of our players.

“We anticipate that the academies will be located in our four regions of Caledonia and the North; the Borders; Glasgow and the West; and Edinburgh and the east. We also intend to enhance our links with London Scottish and are currently engaged in dialogue with them around their academy plans.

“We are currently looking at various locations around Scotland which offer strong support for our plans to provide an environment in which a robust and reliable flow of the best young talent, boys and girls, can be developed,” Dodson added.

“The plans for our academies are being crafted with the full support of our rugby performance staff and those within our professional teams who are responsible for nurturing our Elite Development Players at present. We have established an implementation working group comprising Scottish Rugby staff and members of our Council and clubs.

“The key is that our structures must accelerate the opportunities for our best young talent to thrive and be ready to compete for Scotland on the world stage.

“This significant step change has received positive support from both our clubs and our wider stakeholders as we seek to enhance our game and widen the base.”

The Scottish Rugby Academy initiative is the first paper to be implemented from a wide-ranging review undertaken into the game in Scotland. Other rugby development initiatives to be implemented are in the following areas:

• Club rugby development
• Schools rugby development
• Women's rugby development and
• Rugby coach development.

Further information on these documents can be found on this website and further details on their implementation  will be conveyed in due course.

George Carlin wrote:I would love to agree with what I hope is a dwindling number of people who might maintain that Scotland 'doesn't need Josh Strauss' but if this series showed anything, it's that this couldn't be more wrong and we need him quite badly. Let's hope Denton shows up again in the autumn after a concussion-free break.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

George Carlin wrote:I would love to agree with what I hope is a dwindling number of people who might maintain that Scotland 'doesn't need Josh Strauss' but if this series showed anything, it's that this couldn't be more wrong and we need him quite badly. Let's hope Denton shows up again in the autumn after a concussion-free break.

Let me be quite clear about that. The point I raised previously is that the WC squad should be decided on form. Nothing else matters.

The Glasgow fans at the end of last season were waxing lyrical about Strauss, queuing up to stroke his beard, and proclaiming that he would be part of the World Cup squad on the condition that he was alive and well. My point was that he would have zero chance to stake his claim prior to the World Cup in an international jersey, which would make it difficult for him to be selected provided Denton and Beattie (and two of Harley, Brown and Strokosch) were playing well and had strong 6 Nations/AIs. In that regard I was suggesting that good international form would trump good club form. The list of players excelling in a club jersey and looking bewildered in an international jersey is too long to set out here. No reason to suggest Strauss would add to that list, but equally no reason to suggest that he wouldn't. We just won't know when it comes to selection.

As it happens none of the alternatives played well over the summer (with perhaps the exception of Rob Harley), and were we picking a squad now and were Strauss available, I would have no hesitation selecting him. I think Strokosch, Brown and Beattie would all be vulnerable to being dropped, and could have no complaint (Brown could complain that he was being shafted by being forced to play 7 in a completely exhausted state, but if he's being considered at 7 then Strauss is unlikely to replace him, more likely Cowan, Barclay or Rennie as specialists in that position).

TJ wrote:Captain for me should be Brown (6)