Ulster 2014/2015, Part 2

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Part 1; https://www.606v2.com/t53882p950-ulster-2014-2015

We've been rocked with the seismic revelation David Humphreys is leaving the province- indeed has already left- for Gloucester. Anscombe was slated to be seeing out the last year of his contract before being quietly let go but the Humphreys bombshell left him as the odd man out, and he's been pushed out the door. The decision was partly because he was hired to work under a Director of Rugby and Ulster are looking for someone with more experience in the market to take on Humphreys role in addition to the coaching responsibilities. As usual, the rumour mill is on overdrive and opinions are polarised- but this is Ulster Rugby after all. Les Kiss is our interim Director of Rugby and it seems Allen Clarke is filling the role of forwards coach in the short term. More changes or appointments could be forthcoming.

If all that wasn't enough we've been dealt a real group of death in the new Champions Cup- double-winners Toulon will brave the Ravenhill roar along with old friends Leicester Tigers and old foes the Scarlets. All in all, this team should be capable of securing a Top 4 finish at the very least in the Pro12 and we need to target the top two, our prospects in Europe look more occluded- it might come down to best runners-up and our pool promises to be tight and competitive.

Our pre-season concludes when we take on Exeter Chiefs at Ravenhill on Friday the 22nd August and then travel to Donnybrook to face Leinster on Friday the 29th August. It'll be a big relief to see the action at Ravenhill moving from the headlines to the pitch

Players Out
Johann Muller (retired), Paddy Wallace (retired), Stephen Ferris (retired), Chris Cochrane (retired), Chris Farrell (Grenoble), Niall Annett (Worcester), John Afoa (Gloucester), Tom Court (London Irish), James McKinney (Rotherham), David McIlwaine (Rotherham), Paddy McAllister (Aurillac), Sean Doyle (ACT Brumbies), Adam Macklin (Rotherham), Ian Porter (Connacht)

Players In
Franco van der Merwe (Golden Lions), Louis Ludik (Agen), Wiehahn Herbst (Natal Sharks), Ruaidhrí Murphy (ACT Brumbies), Dave Ryan (Zebre), Ian Humphreys (London Irish), Charlie Butterworth (Lansdowne), Sean Reidy (Counties Manukau)

Hookers
Rory Best, Rob Herring (Jonny Murphy, John Andrew*)
Props
Callum Black, Ruaidhrí Murphy, Andrew Warwick, Declan Fitzpatrick, Wiehahn Herbst, Dave Ryan, Ricky Lutton, Bronson Ross, Kyle McCall(?)
Locks
Iain Henderson, Dan Tuohy, Franco van der Merwe, Lewis Stevenson, Neil McComb
Backrow
Robbie Diack, Conor Joyce, Chris Henry, Mike McComish, Sean Reidy, Charlie Butterworth, Nick Williams, Roger Wilson (Clive Ross**)
Scrum-half
Ruan Pienaar, Paul Marshall, Michael Heaney
Outhalf
Paddy Jackson, Ian Humphreys
Centres
Luke Marshall, Stuart Olding, Darren Cave, Stuart McCloskey
Wings
Michael Allen, Andrew Trimble, Tommy Bowe, Craig Gilroy
Fullback
Louis Ludik, Ricky Andrew, Jared Payne, Peter Nelson

*Academy hookers training with first team squad
**Clive Ross, cousin of Mike, is on trial

Opening fixtures

F; Exeter Chiefs (H)
F; Leinster (A)

Pro12; Scarlets (A)
Pro12; Zebre (H)
Pro12; Cardiff Blues (A)
Pro12; Zebre (A)
Pro12; Edinburgh (H)

ECC; Leicester Tigers (A)
ECC; RC Toulon (H)

Officiating comedy here, utterly shambolic, award a try twice only to disallow.
Full time can't come soon enough.
Ulster are tom kite today anyway.

It was shambolic but in the end the correct decision - a double knock on no try.
It seemed to me Owens was mentoring Patterson and telling him what to do.
At one point Patterson was going to go upstairs to the TMO and Owens said 'you cant go upstairs for that' and he didn't

I see that Rory and Tommy are being rested on Boxing/St Stephens Day

No doubt they will play in the pointless match in Toulon.
Bad decision and Ulster take Connacht for granted at their peril

Is that a bad decision by Ulster... or an IRFU decision regarding front line players and tying into the Irish training camp happening that week. Beause my money is on the latter and if the other frontline Ireland players are the same for Munster and Leinster... well, what can you do?

IRFU do not dictate specific games this time in the year.
We do get a requirement to rest them for a proscribed number of games.

If they were not selected for the away again in Toulon there would not be a problem but Doak still thinks we can qualify.

Also Pienaer looking doubtful - direct cause of being brought back too early in a lost cause.

Sorry but that is 2 absolutely awful managerial decisions

Can I say we are in 'crisis' yet? It genuinely feels like it and I'm not convinced we will see the champions cup next year. The team is a absolute shamble through various factors and some are no ones fault, but our injury list is hideous. Some factors are/were very controllable though and we have failed.

From Geoffs post last week and indeed the general musings on Anscombes unpopularity it does seem he had to go and yet we are so worse off now. Was Doak really the best we could do? Clarke also? Our tactics look like a throwback to Deccie when he took charge of Ireland, kicking the leather off the ball and hoping to tackle our way to victory.

There just seems to be a malaise setting in and even our defence, which was top notch early on is leaking yards and scores. The worst thing is there is no quick fix and no change in sight until kiss comes in after the RWC. The whole set up needs a clear out and fresh eyes and ideas.

Standulstermen wrote:Can I say we are in 'crisis' yet? It genuinely feels like it and I'm not convinced we will see the champions cup next year. The team is a absolute shamble through various factors and some are no ones fault, but our injury list is hideous. Some factors are/were very controllable though and we have failed.

From Geoffs post last week and indeed the general musings on Anscombes unpopularity it does seem he had to go and yet we are so worse off now. Was Doak really the best we could do? Clarke also? Our tactics look like a throwback to Deccie when he took charge of Ireland, kicking the leather off the ball and hoping to tackle our way to victory.

There just seems to be a malaise setting in and even our defence, which was top notch early on is leaking yards and scores. The worst thing is there is no quick fix and no change in sight until kiss comes in after the RWC. The whole set up needs a clear out and fresh eyes and ideas.

Oh...you're talking about Ulster!!!?? Oh sorry, thought it was us...

Standulstermen wrote:Can I say we are in 'crisis' yet?

Yes.

Bah humbug.

Standulstermen wrote:
Our tactics look like a throwback to Deccie when he took charge of Ireland, kicking the leather off the ball and hoping to tackle our way to victory.

And you've just selected the architect of that plan as your head coach

Sin é wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:
Our tactics look like a throwback to Deccie when he took charge of Ireland, kicking the leather off the ball and hoping to tackle our way to victory.

And you've just selected the architect of that plan as your head coach

Yeah, gotta say, that's a point Ulster might regret if they find out Decco wasn't the architect.

geoff998rugby wrote:IRFU do not dictate specific games this time in the year.
We do get a requirement to rest them for a proscribed number of games.

Yeah, I would wait and see what Munster and Leinsters teams look like before you jump to any conclusions about that.

Sin é wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:
Our tactics look like a throwback to Deccie when he took charge of Ireland, kicking the leather off the ball and hoping to tackle our way to victory.

And you've just selected the architect of that plan as your head coach

Neil Doak?

Here when Deccie came on board it made sense and he had great players at implementing it. When the laws changed it grew outdated but we didn't really move on. Sad to see ulster picking it up now

Pienaar just a twisted knee. Should be training this week. Lucky lucky

I completely and totally disagree our tactics are anything like Kidneys with Ireland. Thats a very superficial way of looking at it.

Notch wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:IRFU do not dictate specific games this time in the year.
We do get a requirement to rest them for a proscribed number of games.

Yeah, I would wait and see what Munster and Leinsters teams look like before you jump to any conclusions about that.

I am not jumping to a conclusion - its what I have been told is the case.

The IRFU sometimes state specific games that players cannot play in - usually the 1 before and the 1 after International windows.
It is often more than 1 game at the start of the season.

At other times they may insist on individual players not playing more than a set number of games in a given period - they do not specify individual games.
Munster and Leinster can put out 'A' team XV's against each other - doesn't alter the fact they dont have to.

Also unlike us it makes sense for them to rest players as they still have a chance in qualifying in thne HC we dont.
In fact given they are still in the HC I expect a few to be rested but not because IRFU insist upon it.

Notch wrote:I completely and totally disagree our tactics are anything like Kidneys with Ireland. Thats a very superficial way of looking at it.

Kicking the leather of the ball at every farts turn. Looks pretty similar.

Tactics?

Somebody saw that there was tactics?

'Get rid of the ball lads, they have a fantastic attacking style so give 'em the ball.'

Which is exactly what Tyrone Howe was alluding to.

There were no tactics it was just a complete shambles

Standulstermen wrote:

Notch wrote:I completely and totally disagree our tactics are anything like Kidneys with Ireland. Thats a very superficial way of looking at it.

Kicking the leather of the ball at every farts turn. Looks pretty similar.

Like I said, superficial- and incorrect. We were kicking from 10 predominately and not box-kicking off 9 much at all, which was a massive feature of Ireland under Kidney. We were much more willing to offload the ball out of contact when in there right areas. We deploy more decoy runners. We do not put as much emphasis on chasing and contending for the ball.

None of this is to say that we were right tactically or the execution of the tactics was good or any of it. But just because tactics are poor, ill-judged or don't work doesn't make them the same as other different tactics which were poor, ill-judged or didn't work. Kicking the ball covers such a massive spectrum of tactics of all different kinds... you could just as easily compare us to Australia because we offloaded a few times.

I think what you meant is 'it was like watching Kidneys Ireland because I was disappointed and I wanted us to be playing better'. Because actually we were trying to play a very different game plan. And to say there were no tactics is equally stupid. To say the wheels came off and the players maybe had no faith in their teammates or panicked and started playing as individuals is accurate.

How hard is it to think before you post? Everyone is just getting so carried away because we're playing badly and all sense of proportion and balance has gone out the window.

To be honest I would have been happier if we were playing like Kidneys Ireland as given the way Humphreys played I would have had a lot more faith in us running the game from 9 and not from 10, at least until Pienaar went off.

Notch wrote: How hard is it to think before you post? Everyone is just getting so carried away because we're playing badly and all sense of proportion and balance has gone out the window.

That is your opinion. You think this just a temporary blip in form exaggerated by a number of players missing some of us believe there are some deeper underlying problems which could have a worrying outcome.

No need to critise others because their analysis differs from yours

Notch wrote:I completely and totally disagree our tactics are anything like Kidneys with Ireland. Thats a very superficial way of looking at it.

Well I think the similarity is that under Deccie Ireland had no tactics and under Doak we he have no tactics....

I'd be most concerned with the defence, than the attack to be honest.  

It's fairly well known that Doak and Clark especially are poor coaches so there's nothing surprising about the mess Ulster are in. Throw in guys like Bell, Longwell and Cunningham you just have a total jobs for the boys culture there, with next to no experience of managing/coaching at this level.

Maybe not allowing Cheika to bring in his own team wasn't the best decision in hindsight...

geoff998rugby wrote:

Notch wrote: How hard is it to think before you post? Everyone is just getting so carried away because we're playing badly and all sense of proportion and balance has gone out the window.

That is your opinion. You think this just a temporary blip in form exaggerated by a number of players missing some of us believe there are some deeper underlying problems which could have a worrying outcome.

No need to critise others because their analysis differs from yours

No thats not true, I accept there are deeper underlying problems but I also think that there are a lot of positives that will see us maintain our status as a top 4 side this season. Worst case scenario is fifth. It's worrying times but the reaction is ludicrous and OTT. I remember when Ulster were genuinely much, much worse than they are now and I think people are a bit spoilt- even in defeat in the last two there were three extremely well constructed tries that demonstrate what we are capable with with the ball and that we remain a dangerous side. The biggest problem we have is our defence (and hoping Humphreys does not have another game like that, ever).

We have been poor but this is the first game in the season we genuinely weren't in with a realistic shot at winning in the last 20 minutes despite our performance. We have played the two best sides in the league this season- Glasgow and Ospreys- at home and dominated them up front. We can clearly compete with the top sides in this league and there is still only five points between us and top spot. So there is everything to play for in the back half of the season and no reason to think we can't be in the mix come the playoffs.

I'm frustrated as well because we should be better, but I don't think things are any worse on the coaching front than under McLaughlin or Anscombe- of course those set-ups were also not good enough. The only difference between this year and previous years is the personnel involved on the playing side.

Notch wrote:
I'm frustrated as well because we should be better, but I don't think things are any worse on the coaching front than under McLaughlin or Anscombe- of course those set-ups were also not good enough. The only difference between this year and previous years is the personnel involved on the playing side.

The performances and results were infinitely better under both Anscombe and McLaughlin, irrespective of personel involved and whatever the shortcomings of those set ups.

We're on about a 50% win:loss ratio this season, which is as bad or worse than anything we've seen in the pro era. All the basic aspects of the game are not functioning - the set piece, breakdown, defence and discipline.

Apart from the performance against Glasgow in October we've been pretty dire in all competitions, stretching back to the pro 12 SF last year.

Well I think we will finish in the top 5 as well but there are real problems on the horizon.

The coaching set up with McLoughlin and Mueller as his side kick was a country mile better than what we have now.

What reaction is OTT? - Doak is not good enough, Clarke is not good enough, Anscombe wasn't good enough. We are going nowhere with sub standard coaching.

The big worries are No new NIQ players till 2016-17, a lack of players coming through the ranks combined with the fact that in next 2/3 years as the side ages (we have alot of old hands 29 or over) we need replacements

We have to find, primarily locally, at least 1 prop, 1 hooker, 2 second rows, 4 backrowers, 1 scrum half, 1 fly half, 1 full back at least by my reckoning - 11 decent players.

A couple can be NIQ but of the rest I can think of maybe 4 who may come through the ranks. That leave a awful lot of Irish grannies required.
Basically I think we are facing a significant decline unless a couple of Henderson quality players appear soon and or we persuade a handful of southerner to come north.

Pienaer apart we no longer have the NIQ players to cover the lack of local talent.
Combine that with inadequate coaching and we are looking over the edge of a cliff.

Kiss will need to be the messiah not only as top coach but as a Director of Rugby. Humphreys was Logans crutch and the crutch has gone and I think he is struggling

rodders wrote:We're on about a 50% win:loss ratio this season, which is as bad or worse than anything we've seen in the pro era. All the basic aspects of the game are not functioning - the set piece, breakdown, defence and discipline.

No- it isn't. The first year I was a season ticket holder we beat Ospreys by one point in the first game and then didn't win another home game until January. That was much worse. And no, the second part is also partly untrue. Our driven lineout has been a weapon and there's really only been one game where our scrum misfired, other than that our scrum and maul are actually very good and as I said earlier amongst the best in the league if not the best. I accept that the win/loss ratio is not good enough and that the breakdown, defence and discipline is not good enough. But frankly we've still got a lot to be happy about compared to the likes of Treviso or Edinburgh. There's still a lot of teams who would love to have our problems. Being better than Treviso and Edinburgh isn't the standard we should be aiming for at all- we should aspire to much greater things- but reading this you'd think we were in the bottom five not the top five.

In the long-term, we are where we always were with regards to our Academy not producing enough talent. Steps being taken to address that will probably take a long time to pay off if they do at all. There's nothing there that we didn't know we'd be facing. Such is the reality for those who are not French super clubs. The good news is that pretty much everyone else in the Pro12 is in the same boat as us with regards to struggling to attract top coaches and relying on a sporadic production line of local talent. This cliff we may be facing doesn't seem likely to see us fall into the bottom handful of teams in the league. We should still be pushing for the playoffs year on year. It will make us much less competitive in Europe but I'm not sure that isn't inevitable for sides without the resources of the richest teams anyway.

I do think there are problems which you articulate well, but its not going to be the end of the world. We are in better financial health than most teams in the Pro12, we have a bigger fan base than most- we are well placed to maintain our status as one of the leagues better teams over the next five years in my view.

Our scrum to my mind is contingent on Herbst being fit. Deccie Fitz looks jaded to me. Without Herbst we struggle and even then against the bigger packs we aren't holding up. Our maul to my eyes is hit and miss. It can be excellent or it can misfire particularly so when we aren't getting the % of clean ball needed.

Henrys loss is a massive factor at the breakdown as we are struggling to slow down ball. Lineout has been hit and miss. I believe after the first two rounds of the Heineken we had the worst lineout in the comp (we may still do im not sure).

In truth at this point if you guaranteed Ulster champions cup next season I would take it. Kiss should come in with a remit to wipe the coaching slate clean. We are crying out for new ideas. In fairness to Jonny Bell before recent weeks we did have the best defence in the Pro12. I think the malaise has just reached the defence last of all. Its time (next season) for significant change in coaching and hopefully Nucifora can facilitate some inter-provincial player movement that will shore up our weaknesses

Standulstermen wrote:Our scrum to my mind is contingent on Herbst being fit. Deccie Fitz looks jaded to me. Without Herbst we struggle and even then against the bigger packs we aren't holding up. Our maul to my eyes is hit and miss. It can be excellent or it can misfire particularly so when we aren't getting the % of clean ball needed.

Henrys loss is a massive factor at the breakdown as we are struggling to slow down ball. Lineout has been hit and miss. I believe after the first two rounds of the Heineken we had the worst lineout in the comp (we may still do im not sure).

Yup.

Vermulan looks to be heading north - he'd be handy old signing for us - Etzebeth thrown in would be a grand job too.

Stringer might be available on the cheap as cover for Pienaar - if we could get him and Ford on a buy one get one free we'd be well sorted.

Team

(15-9): L Ludik; C Gilroy, D Cave, L Marshall, P Nelson, P Jackson, P Marshall; (1-8): C Black, R Herring, W Herbst, D Tuohy, F vd Merwe, R Diack, C Ross, R Wilson; Replacements (16-23): J Andrew, A Warwick, D Fitzpatrick, A O’Connor, S Reidy, M Heaney, I Humphreys, S Olding.

Expected Jackson back but Herbst is a surprise - I heard 2 months must have been 2 weeks - nice Christmas present.
Nelson getting a run is good to see - now Anscombes has gone we might see this lads potential

Long term i.e. after January Henry is the only one I don't expect to see return - maybe Williams as well - no idea what his situation is

Not a bad team considering injuries, and players rested, but if they play with the pathetic weak spirit they did v Ospreys, and Scarlets, then Connacht beating us at home is likely

A Merry Christmas to all

Nelson may well only ever be potential Geoff sorry. Doesn't look up to it for me. Whatever Anscombe said to him, merited or not hasn't worked

Disagree on Nelson. He has already shown he's better than guys like Andrew and Allen and just needs time in the team to catch up on Olding and Gilroy. Anscombe told him skill wasn't enough but that he needed power - he has now bulked up as much as Olding during his layoff.

Doesn't look physically capable to me Aukster. I had very high hopes for him. He was capped by ulster very very early. I look at someone like O'Connor who seems to relish the physical stakes or even Spence who revelled in it. Nelson doesn't look that way to me. At present we have seen more from Allen IMO.

I don't post often but on this occasion , we need have a little faith in our players. I agree with Goeff that the players lastnight were awful and lacked that edge which was needed. We have to be very careful when looking at our younger players and let them mature at a rate they are comfortable with not what we want. Yes it may take a season or two longer but in the long term that would be better for them and the club.

When did Nelson make his debut? 3/4 seasons ago? If Anscombe didn't rate him then that's fair enough and it is bad luck but he would be behind Gilroy, Bowe, Trimble and Scholes on the wing for me and behind Ludik, Payne, Olding and Gilroy at 15 imo

Stand, see what you're saying but its only one game and lets be honest the whole team weren't that great. We scrapped a win and that was for me the only good point of going last night.

I have much more hope in Scholes than Nelson. Hopefully it won't be too long before we see Scholes back in an Ulster shirt. Maybe during the 6Ns?

Standulstermen wrote:Doesn't look physically capable to me Aukster. I had very high hopes for him. He was capped by ulster very very early. I look at someone like O'Connor who seems to relish the physical stakes or even Spence who revelled in it. Nelson doesn't look that way to me. At present we have seen more from Allen IMO.

I really find it depressing that there is an irreversible trend towards bigger and bigger backs who bosh their way through defences rather than play smart rugby. Chris Farrell is in the prime specimen mould who has shown that level of physique is effective in France, and Ian Whitten has been fairly effective for Exeter. Ulster don't have enough prime specimens in the forwards to try to play that game in the backs, so I'd much rather have guys who play with their head up in the backline like Nelson than big but limited players like Whitten and Farrell.

Nelson is coming back from injury, as were Olding and Jackson who are afforded some leeway to get match sharp, so he should be given the same concession.

The thing is when we get a big but skilful guy like McCloskey we have to use them.

Anyone else get the impression that Gilroy has picked up some moves from Bowe?  His last two trys have been from him hitting angles hard and powering through gaps like Bowe.  Where as before what we always saw was him taking the ball in space and using his jinking running style.

It was better from Gilroy but then again he got pinged once (fairly harshly) for the man in the air, got away with another (although it wasn't bad it was a penalty) and nearly sold the farm at the start of the game by haring up after a high ball and being stranded.

Aukster

Nelson may well be coming back but im not talking about how big he is. Olding and Jackson never look like they don't want to tackle. A couple of times in the first half (it was right in front of me) he didn't look like he wanted to tackle. I have yet to see him do anything of note at Pro12 Level but I agree its early days. Worryingly how many chances will he get though? Bowe will be back next week with Scholes and Trimble to come in the new year.

This absolutely baffles me. We had just one clear cut chance to score apart from the Gilroy try. We showed nothing in attack. How can he possibly believe we should have scored more?

http://www.pro12rugby.com/news/16343.php#.VJ8fsJ1AGU

Now to be fair, he didn't say what the headline says he said but its been a very long time since I've seen an Ulster side look so toothless with the ball and create so little. You can't say we didn't get our just rewards on the scoreboard. We did nothing all game in the backs and we had no phase play, we exerted no pressure in their 22 and we had little or no intensity. Barring two missed place kicks and an Olding break that wasn't supported well enough (I would kill for a few top-class back rows at Ulster) we did absolutely nothing with the ball.

My big concern isn't over the coaching and playing staff (though of courses there are well documented issues with both) but over the standards that are being set. I don't want us patting ourselves on the back after a game like that. We did not look like contenders at any point. We were certainly not dominant, we had more possession and territory but we used it poorly. It wasn't a good enough performance at home and I don't want anyone pretending it was- it should be viewed as a point dropped. All of this has me shaking my head.

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/News/LatestNews/TabId/149/ArtMID/793/ArticleID/3152/Doak-and-Gilroy-on-the-win-over-Connacht-.aspx

Notch wrote:This absolutely baffles me. We had just one clear cut chance to score apart from the Gilroy try. We showed nothing in attack. How can he possibly believe we should have scored more?

http://www.pro12rugby.com/news/16343.php#.VJ8fsJ1AGU

Now to be fair, he didn't say what the headline says he said but its been a very long time since I've seen an Ulster side look so toothless with the ball and create so little. You can't say we didn't get our just rewards on the scoreboard. We did nothing all game in the backs and we had no phase play, we exerted no pressure in their 22 and we had little or no intensity. Barring two missed place kicks and an Olding break that wasn't supported well enough (I would kill for a few top-class back rows at Ulster) we did absolutely nothing with the ball.

Been saying this about the backrow all season.  Without Henry and even with Henry who was out of form this season (I think we now know why) our breakdown work is atrocious.  We are also lacking ball carriers because as wonderful as his work ethic is Diack is not a great 6 when it comes to carrying.  Wilson is a decent carrier but really when you look at the backrows we've played this season they are seriously lacking umph.  Henderson and Ferris last season and it was a different story.  We need to bring in a top 6 and preferably a good squad 7.  Options at 8 are ok with Wilson and Williams but its simply not enough when we are so ordinary at 6 and 7.  The rest of the pack is ok, we are solid at loosehead and hooker but heavily reliant on Herbst at 3 as Fitzpatrick has really looked out of sorts, though against the Scarlets I think JP Doyle really did him over.  The second row would be ok but for injuries to Tuohy, and Henderson who can play there....  Flip hasn't set the world alight but hes been good, lineout could be functioning better but I imagine with a new lineout captain these things take a bit of time.

When Foley's email went around the Munster camp it supposedly included a reference questioning why one Munster player was even in the squad.  I think this question has been being asked of the likes of McComish for quite some time now yet hes still there.

I notice a lot of talk on this thread about Doak, my two cents on it is, that the situation with Anscombe being kicked out and replaced with Doak is really poor from .....I assume Logan.  I'm more than prepared to give Doak a chance and am happy to accept that the situation he's inherited is a very poor one.  But I also agree there has to be questions about the decision making going on above coaching level.

Well, theres not really any point in objecting to Doak because we know he's going to be in a secondary role next season anyway. He's basically a glorified caretaker coach.

We finished the game with a back row of Sean Reidy, Clive Ross and Rob Herring out of position. Thats as bad as it gets. No coach is going to be getting much out of that. All this is the legacy of Humphreys- absolutely criminal to have only 4 proven players in the most injury prone position on the pitch, especially when an NIQ spot is spent on a back three player!

I think we need to play Henderson at 6, we really miss him. His physicality adds such an edge to our pack. He's the player we miss the most. Tuohy is basically the only carrier at the moment. Actually with Williams and Henderson in the same team (with Hendo at lock) we would have enough ball carrying for team like Connacht.

I was struck yesterday by just how lazy our players were in working to get back in the defensive line or to get in support of the ball carrier. Nobody is busting a gut to do anything, working hard to clear out past the ruck or get back in position. There's a lot of jogging from ruck to ruck with and without the ball and in many ways I think thats our biggest problem. There's very little in the way of work rate. Especially the front rows, all the props this season are really lazy around the pitch.

This was a disappointing game in that the things we've done especially well this season, we didn't do well. The maul and scrum against a weakish Connacht pack wasn't the standard that has been set in previous games.

Notch wrote:Well, theres not really any point in objecting to Doak because we know he's going to be in a secondary role next season anyway. He's basically a glorified caretaker coach.

We finished the game with a back row of Sean Reidy, Clive Ross and Rob Herring out of position. Thats as bad as it gets. No coach is going to be getting much out of that. All this is the legacy of Humphreys- absolutely criminal to have only 4 proven players in the most injury prone position on the pitch, especially when an NIQ spot is spent on a back three player!

I think we need to play Henderson at 6, we really miss him. His physicality adds such an edge to our pack. He's the player we miss the most. Tuohy is basically the only carrier at the moment. Actually with Williams and Henderson in the same team (with Hendo at lock) we would have enough ball carrying for team like Connacht.

I was struck yesterday by just how lazy our players were in working to get back in the defensive line or to get in support of the ball carrier. Nobody is busting a gut to do anything, working hard to clear out past the ruck or get back in position. There's a lot of jogging from ruck to ruck with and without the ball and in many ways I think thats our biggest problem. There's very little in the way of work rate. Especially the front rows, all the props this season are really lazy around the pitch.

Did we have the lack of work rate issue under Anscombe though? I don't think we did.....and the fact that he was so demanding may be why he supposedly lost the dressing room. Henderson was fantastic at 6 for us and I absolutely agree he is who we need there. I hate to have to mention IRFU directives on where we play certain players, but if Payne constantly being put at 13 is anything to go by, it may be the case that Dublin won't facilitate Henderson as a long term first choice 6 option. On that basis I reiterate a top 6 and squad 7 requirement. Geoff has said above that we won't be making any signings for some time, which is worrying.

Well, before he came I read that Anscombe had a past history of falling out with players and losing dressing rooms. I gave him a fair chance as I'm giving Doak but I wasn't altogether surprised to hear rumours of problems behind rthe scenes- disappointed, but not surprised.

The thing is, a balance has to be struck. Bad cop every week quickly just becomes ineffective and/or demoralising. Constant negativity will eventually just annoy players. I think Anscombe was too demanding after initially being delighted at how unwilling he was to accept sub-par performances. There was no nuance there. It's a shame, because I think its a style we need. Some guys set the bar too low for themselves.

But the other extreme is just as damaging. And I think we have lost guys like Tom Court who would drive that culture of not accepting mediocrity. There were no leaders out there on the pitch.

On Henderson, (and im someone that has wanted him left at lock) I agree. If O'Connor, VDM and Tuohy can stay fit then Henderson walks into the 6 shirt. What worries me is the balance though. Henderson and Williams puts a serious amount of pressure on your 7 at the breakdown and in fairness we don't have one capable. Maybe throwing Diack in at 7 helps but its part of the reason Sarries did a number on us a few years back.

I do hope Doak moves on next year. I don't like what he got out of one of the best backlines in the NH and I don't like what I see from the team. I wish, him well. I hope he goes and gets experience but to my mind he is in boots too big for him at present.

With our centres (bar McCloskey I think) all signed up for next year we need to be looking at a swap deal with Leinster in terms of taking a backrow. Its got that desperate

Notch wrote:Well, before he came I read that Anscombe had a past history of falling out with players and losing dressing rooms. I gave him a fair chance as I'm giving Doak but I wasn't altogether surprised to hear rumours of problems behind rthe scenes- disappointed, but not surprised.

The thing is, a balance has to be struck. Bad cop every week quickly just becomes ineffective and/or demoralising. Constant negativity will eventually just annoy players. I think Anscombe was too demanding after initially being delighted at how unwilling he was to accept sub-par performances. There was no nuance there. It's a shame, because I think its a style we need. Some guys set the bar too low for themselves.

But the other extreme is just as damaging. And I think we have lost guys like Tom Court who would drive that culture of not accepting mediocrity. There were no leaders out there on the pitch.

Agree 100% Notch. The lack of leadership on the pitch is what's killing Ulster at the moment. Not just Court but Afoa, and of course Muller were all very vocal as indeed were guys who have been missing for long stretches like Henry and Trimble. Having to resort to the uninspiring and phlegmatic Wilson as captain said everything about Ulster's lack of leadership stock.

BTW I'd prefer to have Henderson develop as an 8 as I'd want him carrying at every opportunity rather than flogging his body in rucks and tackles the way Ferris did.