Ryder Cup predictions.............

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 22 Sep 2014, 12:18 pm

First topic message reminder :

USA 15 - Europe 13

European top points scorer - Rory Mcilroy.............

European Lowest Points scorer - Lee Westwood....

USA Top points scorer - Jim Furyk.............

USA Lowest points scorer - Webb Simpson........

USA 8 - 8 Europe going into the singles......

by GPB Wed 24 Sep 2014, 3:47 am

I am not bothered by the individual scoring. I am bothered that apparently it is the only metric to determine contribution to the team.

I know womens golf is not discussed here much, but last years Solheim Cup illustrates a phenomena that is rarely considered.

Catriona Matthew from Scotland lost two matches on Friday, one each with two very young players from England. With Jody Ewart-Shadoff they lost 3&2 and with Charley Hull, they lost 2&1.

Saturday afternoon, Hull and Ewart-Shadoff teamed up for a big 2&1 win.

Charley Hull and Jody Ewart-Shadoff won their singles matches on Sunday.

Catriona Matthew ended the week with a 0-2-2 record, but IMO, she was one of the big reasons why Europe won the Solheim Cup last year.

IMO, individual records are over-valued in the Ryder Cup, or Prez Cup or Solheim Cup. Who wins the Ryder Cup is the only thing counts.

Ten years from now, some blogger might look at Catriona Matthew's 2013 Solheim Cup and say, "Wow she really stunk it up that week and the Euros won in spite of her." Nothing could be further from the truth.

Its match play!! Players can play great and lose. Players can play badly and win.

by super_realist Wed 24 Sep 2014, 7:01 am

Not sure I really get this GPB.

What is true is that virtually no Americans in recent years have a good record, probably why they've only won 2 out of the last 9. Still, as long as they are all good for morale in the dressing room eh?

Think I'd rather have a player who was 4-0-0 than someone who could gee up the troops, that's the captains and VC jobs.

by Bob_the_Job Wed 24 Sep 2014, 8:42 am

super_realist wrote:Not sure I really get this GPB.

What is true is that virtually no Americans in recent years have a good record, probably why they've only won 2 out of the last 9. Still, as long as they are all good for morale in the dressing room eh?

Think I'd rather have a player who was 4-0-0 than someone who could gee up the troops, that's the captains and VC jobs.

Or even 5-0-0

However, there is a team dynamic at play in the Ryder Cup and it can't be ignored, easily measured or accurately predicted - although I suspect a good captain is also an instinctive judge of people and develops a gut feel for it.

In the absence of being able to absolutely predict that dynamic, I think the best a captain can do is hope that players with good match play records qualify for the team and then that he doesn't screw that up by pairing them badly.

by super_realist Wed 24 Sep 2014, 8:52 am

I think the days of people playing 5 matches are over Bob.

by beninho Wed 24 Sep 2014, 8:57 am

Is the qualifying system flawed?

Should the captain just pick the 12 he thinks will perform best, so that he does not miss out on any matchplay specialists.

Should an automatic pick be given to top european at the world matchplay and the other one which was held in Bulgaria last time. An incentive to play them aswell.

by Sand Wed 24 Sep 2014, 9:03 am

Why is it flawed? I'd say we have one of the best teams we have ever had. Granted id prefer Donald to be in the team for what he brings in a Ryder Cup but he hasn't played good enough and it was a 50/50 for me with him and Westwood.

by George1507 Wed 24 Sep 2014, 10:39 am

Why were the Europeans playing in threes in practice? That seems strange to me.

by pedro Wed 24 Sep 2014, 11:06 am

Practice pairing different today:
Pretty obvious what the Americans are doing.
For the Europeans it looks like McD/Dubie and McIlroy/Kaymer, Poulter/Rose Garcia/Stenson foursomes(?). Don't know what to make of the last group though, probably Westy/Donaldson, Bjorn/Gallacher.

TEAM PRACTICE -
USA –
JOHNSON, MAHAN, SIMPSON, WATSON will start at 0900 from TEE 9.
BRADLEY, FOWLER, MICKELSON, WALKER will start at 0915 from TEE 9.
FURYK, KUCHAR, REED, SPIETH will start at 1000 from TEE 1

EUROPE –
McILROY, KAYMER, DUBUISSON, McDOWELL will start at 1030 from TEE 9.
POULTER, ROSE, GARCIA, STENSON will start at 1045 from TEE 9.
BJØRN, WESTWOOD, GALLACHER, DONALDSON will start at 1100 from TEE 9.

by **navyblueshorts** Wed 24 Sep 2014, 12:37 pm

Shotrock wrote:Super - Certainly don't want to hijack this thread, but as we await for balls in the air later this week, here's a rankings list I suspect you'll enjoy (never seen the old course down so low ...)

http://www.golfjournal.de/travel/plaetze/die-100-besten-golfplaetze-europas/?no_cache=1&cid=5429&did=2942&sechash=55e4b229

Portmarnock @ #4? Seriously??? Someone's having a laugh somewhere.

by pedro Wed 24 Sep 2014, 12:49 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Shotrock wrote:Super - Certainly don't want to hijack this thread, but as we await for balls in the air later this week, here's a rankings list I suspect you'll enjoy (never seen the old course down so low ...)

http://www.golfjournal.de/travel/plaetze/die-100-besten-golfplaetze-europas/?no_cache=1&cid=5429&did=2942&sechash=55e4b229
Portmarnock @ #4? Seriously??? Someone's having a laugh somewhere.

I wonder how these lists are compiled? is the same guy traveling and playing all courses in Europe?? Seems a pretty political correct list having courses from most countries and ET events there.

What is the index?

by kwinigolfer Wed 24 Sep 2014, 12:57 pm

Predictions?
Looks like the weather prognostication is for mainly dry, mild weather but with definite blustrousness in the Friday forecast at least.
You'd think this would favour Europe, but I'm not so sure.

by incontinentia Wed 24 Sep 2014, 1:52 pm

The WAG lineup for Team USA has been announced. PURR@ Mrs Mahan Drool

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/golf/rydercup/11115282/Ryder-Cup-2014-Team-USA-Wags.html?frame=3047818

by super_realist Wed 24 Sep 2014, 1:59 pm

DOn't think much of much of them. Pretty brassy looking bunch.

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 24 Sep 2014, 2:04 pm

Still think they could sex the event up a bit...Maybe Watson could shove Mcginley at a press conference.....and maybe Bubba could take a shot at Poulter at the Opening ceremony...

Make it more of a Show...

by GPB Wed 24 Sep 2014, 2:05 pm

super_realist wrote:Not sure I really get this GPB.

What is true is that virtually no Americans in recent years have a good record, probably why they've only won 2 out of the last 9. Still, as long as they are all good for morale in the dressing room eh?

Think I'd rather have a player who was 4-0-0 than someone who could gee up the troops, that's the captains and VC jobs.

Where in my post was I defending any American record? I wasn't. I am just saying that there is more to it than INDIVIDUAL Won/Loss records. Whats good for the individual may not be good for the team

If a foursome team goes out and shoots 65 and loses because the other team shoots 63, it goes down as a loss. And they are heavily criticized as a goat.

If a fourball team goes out and shoots 70 and loses because the other team cannot get the ball in the hole they are canonized.

Woods has a good singles record but a poor team record in the RC. He is intimidating, and maybe he is more intimidating towards his teammates. Tiger fanboys hate it when I bring this up, but IMO, I think Tiger's absence in 2008 is a significant reason why the US team won in Kentucky.

Sometimes the Whole is greater than the Sum of the parts and sometimes it is less.

Europe has a knack for making the Whole greater than Sum of the Parts.

Won/Loss records is a too simplistic metric for evaluating an individual performance.

by super_realist Wed 24 Sep 2014, 2:05 pm

Gerry Watson is a blubbing ninny. He'd get his head kicked in.

by pedro Wed 24 Sep 2014, 2:13 pm

GPB wrote:Woods has a good singles record but a poor team record in the RC. He is intimidating, and maybe he is more intimidating towards his teammates. Tiger fanboys hate it when I bring this up, but IMO, I think Tiger's absence in 2008 is a significant reason why the US team won in Kentucky.

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 24 Sep 2014, 2:19 pm

Tiger always had a lot of pressure on him in fairness...He knew he would always be the goat...

What was Love doing putting him out last anyway last time...

Big game players where it counts..

by GPB Wed 24 Sep 2014, 2:26 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Tiger always had a lot of pressure on him in fairness...He knew he would always be the goat...

What was Love doing putting him out last anyway last time...

Big game players where it counts..

Gallacher put Faldo out last in 1993.
Seve put Monte out last in 1997. Monte was probably Euro's best in 1997.
Monte put out the US Open Champion in the #12 spot in 2010

by super_realist Wed 24 Sep 2014, 2:27 pm

Great points GPB.

by pedro Wed 24 Sep 2014, 2:36 pm

Putting out your best last is a big mistake IMO. At that time it may not matter. It's like putting your best penalty shooter out last in football. Often it's over by then.

Put the best out first (to get momentum going) and in the middle (to keep it going).*

* of course it depends on the standings going into the singles - but this should be the default tactics.

by super_realist Wed 24 Sep 2014, 2:38 pm

If you put your best out first and they get beaten, then what happens to morale and momentum?

I'd put my best somewhere like 3-4 in the list.

by pedro Wed 24 Sep 2014, 2:45 pm

It depends how many "best" you have. I assume you have 5-6 "best".

And it doesn't matter if it'll be the "best" or the rest that'll get beaten first. You'll end up losing anyway if that's the case.

by super_realist Wed 24 Sep 2014, 2:55 pm

I thought we were talking about THE best player and where you put HIM, not how long the tail is.

by raycastleunited Wed 24 Sep 2014, 3:04 pm

beninho wrote:Is the qualifying system flawed?

Should the captain just pick the 12 he thinks will perform best, so that he does not miss out on any matchplay specialists.

Should an automatic pick be given to top european at the world matchplay and the other one which was held in Bulgaria last time. An incentive to play them aswell.

I don't understand why there is a qualification system at all. Captain should just pick the side.

Can you imagine a national coach in any other sport picking the team/squad for the world cup based on a ranking list over the previous year?

by GPB Wed 24 Sep 2014, 3:19 pm

DLIII is being criticized for putting Woods last in 2012.

Pavin was criticized putting an unproven Mahan last in 2010.

Its easy to Monday Morning quarterback, but IMO, a Point is a point is a point.

Europe had a great Sunday in 2012 and USA had a great Sunday in 1999.

I compared 1999 to 2012. USA won convincingly in 1999. Won 8 matches, halved one that day. Each of the 8 wins was won before the 18th hole and only one of the 8 wins went as far as the 17th hole.

Europe won 8 matches (halved one). Lawrie won easily (5&3) and Westwood won on the 16th green. The other 6 wins went at least to the 17th hole and 4 of them went to the 18th hole.

The stars aligned for Europe in 2012. Europes players played just a little better than the US player, just enough to win. If Mickelson had played against any other player that day other than Rose, he probably would have won.

USA destroyed Europe in 1999 on Sunday. Just about any lineup that James put in on Sunday, they would have got beat, just as badly.

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 24 Sep 2014, 3:20 pm

GPB wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Tiger always had a lot of pressure on him in fairness...He knew he would always be the goat...

What was Love doing putting him out last anyway last time...

Big game players where it counts..

Gallacher put Faldo out last in 1993.
Seve put Monte out last in 1997. Monte was probably Euro's best in 1997.
Monte put out the US Open Champion in the #12 spot in 2010

Monty has never been out last...Garrido got trashed at 12 and I think someone else was 11..

by Davie Wed 24 Sep 2014, 3:23 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_Ryder_Cup#Sunday.27s_singles_matches

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 24 Sep 2014, 3:29 pm

Its wrong Lehman won the last match 7-6 over Garrido..

by super_realist Wed 24 Sep 2014, 3:30 pm

raycastleunited wrote:
beninho wrote:Is the qualifying system flawed?

Should the captain just pick the 12 he thinks will perform best, so that he does not miss out on any matchplay specialists.

Should an automatic pick be given to top european at the world matchplay and the other one which was held in Bulgaria last time. An incentive to play them aswell.

I don't understand why there is a qualification system at all. Captain should just pick the side.

Can you imagine a national coach in any other sport picking the team/squad for the world cup based on a ranking list over the previous year?

Yeah, England wouldn't have a team Laugh

by super_realist Wed 24 Sep 2014, 3:31 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Its wrong Lehman won the last match 7-6 over Garrido..

Sorry Truss, even the official Ryder Cup webpage has it as MOnty out last. Hard luck

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 24 Sep 2014, 3:36 pm

You're wrong Lehman-Garrido was match 12....

He asked Seve to go out last..

by Davie Wed 24 Sep 2014, 3:37 pm

C'mon then big guy .. we've come up with two references so far that suggest YOU are wrong - find something to back up your claim?

by super_realist Wed 24 Sep 2014, 3:39 pm

Wrong Truss, MOnty won the half point that WON the trophy outright. I remember watching it.

http://www.rydercup.com/2008/europe/history/results/1997.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/golf/3913439.stm

Do you just try to get everything wrong with Golf Truss?

"The U.S. won the final-day singles, 8-4, but came a point short of winning back the Ryder Cup for the first time since 1993. The final drama to determine either a tie or an outright European victory came down to the final two players left on soggy Valderrama: Scotland's Colin Montgomerie halved with Scott Hoch, conceding a 15-foot par putt for Hoch and sealing the Victory."

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 24 Sep 2014, 3:54 pm

1. I watched it the other night on Sky Ryder channel

2. Ballesteros praised Garrido's guts in asking for the responsibility

3. Lehman always joked he was either first or last in his Ryder cups..

4. Monty was the last game out on the course..

He was match 10

by super_realist Wed 24 Sep 2014, 3:59 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:1. I watched it the other night on Sky Ryder channel

2. Ballesteros praised Garrido's guts in asking for the responsibility

3. Lehman always joked he was either first or last in his Ryder cups..

4. Monty was the last game out on the course..

He was match 10

Sorry Truss, you're just plain wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFe9kKMMFAU

Please look at 3.04 onwards.

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 24 Sep 2014, 4:00 pm

Type in Ryder Cup 1997 - Golf today..

Confirms that Garrido - Lehman was match 28...

by super_realist Wed 24 Sep 2014, 4:02 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Type in Ryder Cup 1997 - Golf today..

Confirms that Garrido - Lehman was match 28...

Well, they're wrong and I've just given you video evidence of it, now be a good man and admit it.

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 24 Sep 2014, 4:07 pm

Faldo finished just before Monty against Furyk on the 16th !!!!

Monty match 26
Faldo match 27
Garrido match 28..

Thank you..

by super_realist Wed 24 Sep 2014, 4:14 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Faldo finished just before Monty against Furyk on the 16th !!!!

Monty match 26
Faldo match 27
Garrido match 28..

Thank you..

Still no actual link from you. I think this is my 5th.

http://golf.about.com/od/teamcompetitions/p/rydercup1997.htm

"For Team Europe, Bernhard Langer earned one of its three wins in singles. The other two came from unlikely sources - Rocca and Per-Ulrik Johansson, who beat Davis Love III 3-and-2 in the second singles match. Thomas Bjorn and Colin Montgomerie (playing last in the European singles order) added half-points for Europe in singles."

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 24 Sep 2014, 4:15 pm

EuropeanTour.com has all the results from every Ryder cup..

Monty
Faldo
Garrido.......

by super_realist Wed 24 Sep 2014, 4:17 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:EuropeanTour.com has all the results from every Ryder cup..

Monty
Faldo
Garrido.......

So you've given two references, compared to about 6-7 now that have MOnty as being last, including television commentary at the time?

by GPB Wed 24 Sep 2014, 4:52 pm

I remember Monty being #12 out.

But realistically, there is not much difference in being #10, #11, #12. There is a good chance that any of those matches could be rendered meaningless.

As Truss explains, match #10 could be the last match on the course (and meaningless) if matches 11 and 12 are over early.

The fact remains that a point is a point is a point. whether it is match #1 or Match #7 or Match #12 on Sunday singles.

There are still 14.5 points to win the Cup outright.

(and Faldo was still out #12 in 1993)

by GPB Wed 24 Sep 2014, 5:38 pm

Every source I can find says that Monty-Hoch was the 12th match on Sunday singles day.

And Garrido-Lehman was match #7.

by raycastleunited Wed 24 Sep 2014, 5:53 pm

incontinentia wrote:The WAG lineup for Team USA has been announced. PURR@ Mrs Mahan

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/golf/rydercup/11115282/Ryder-Cup-2014-Team-USA-Wags.html?frame=3047818

Jordan Speith's girlfriend is very easy on the eye as well.

Would have been hilarious if Tiger had made the team and rocked up in his private jet with a hareem of porn stars.

by raycastleunited Wed 24 Sep 2014, 5:55 pm

pedro wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Shotrock wrote:Super - Certainly don't want to hijack this thread, but as we await for balls in the air later this week, here's a rankings list I suspect you'll enjoy (never seen the old course down so low ...)

http://www.golfjournal.de/travel/plaetze/die-100-besten-golfplaetze-europas/?no_cache=1&cid=5429&did=2942&sechash=55e4b229
Portmarnock @ #4? Seriously??? Someone's having a laugh somewhere.
I wonder how these lists are compiled? is the same guy traveling and playing all courses in Europe?? Seems a pretty political correct list having courses from most countries and ET events there.

What is the index?

These things are always very subjective, but this is an amusing list... this is clearly not a consensus view.

(and maybe should be moved to another thread Smile

)

by kwinigolfer Wed 24 Sep 2014, 6:02 pm

Mrs Mahan looked a lot different when she made a cameo at The Barclays . . . . don't think she'll be squeezing in to her cheerleading clobber anytime soon.

Kind of amusing that Phil travelled separately and met the Team at the airport so he could pose with them.

by super_realist Wed 24 Sep 2014, 6:13 pm

Cheerleading must be the single most pointless thing to do. Mahan's wifes cheerleading days were obviously a long time ago, judging by more recent pictures.

by GPB Wed 24 Sep 2014, 6:23 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:Kind of amusing that Phil travelled separately and met the Team at the airport so he could pose with them.

If I was flying from San Diego, I would want to go direct, and not make a stop in Atlanta (or where-ever) either.

I don't think all the Euros flew in together.

by GPB Wed 24 Sep 2014, 6:28 pm

super_realist wrote:Cheerleading must be the single most pointless thing to do.

I don't know, I can think of couple things that are more pointless things to do.

1. Mocking players for superficial appearance (curly hair, multiple chins, being overweight).
2. Making fun of players names and their children's names

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