Ryder Cup predictions.............

First topic message reminder :

USA 15 - Europe 13

European top points scorer - Rory Mcilroy.............

European Lowest Points scorer - Lee Westwood....

USA Top points scorer - Jim Furyk.............

USA Lowest points scorer - Webb Simpson........

USA 8 - 8 Europe going into the singles......

kwinigolfer wrote:Horschel wasn't "in form" when the picks were made - so that's presumably another change you'd suggest?

Should have been after the Fed..

Maybe go back to Kiawah tactics..............Phoning European players up at 3am and wearing Desert storm hats......

Insist Langer plays and goes out last..

Whatever works..

JAS wrote:Got to take your hat off to Donaldson, balls of steel from the rookie coming down the stretch.

He is a Ponty boy so I never doubted him for a minute

The USA were missing DJ, Tiger and Dufner. Those three on form would have vastly improved team USA.


I am of the opinion that the captains don't really matter, but using Faldo and Watson as examples I could be persuaded that the captain can ruin team spirit. I would never except the captain could have a meaningful positive effect, they can just avoid making stupendously bad decisions.

I suppose those goes to show.....that people suggesting Tiger was one of the reasons they have lost so many Ryder Cups.....have been shown up over the last 3 days!

McLaren wrote:The USA were missing DJ, Tiger and Dufner.  Those three on form would have vastly improved team USA.


I am of the opinion that the captains don't really matter, but using Faldo and Watson as examples I could be persuaded that the captain can ruin team spirit.  I would never except the captain could have a meaningful positive effect, they can just avoid making stupendously bad decisions.

It's all about form Mac................They'd have benefitted from those guys...If they were playing well.....

Was James a bad Captain 10 -6 up going into the singles...........

Watson beat a quality Euro team last time he was here....Good Captain then..

Was Davis Love a bad Captain 10-6 up ??

At the end of the day Euro seized the moment in big games...........The margin sounds big but it was attained by nicking close games at vital times......

The players win Ryder cups.......USA didn't play well enough.

super_realist wrote:Why wouldn't Donaldson make the team again? He's way younger than Westwood or Bjorn who both played.

No real reason why.....just think the peak of his career has come - if he can stay Top 50 and play the big events then why not, I just see him a bit like Paul Lawrie - he will probably not reach the heights required to make the team again............

Thought Tom Watson got his selections all wrong. I don't mean his 'captain picks' but his pairings yesterday were bizarre. Fowler + Walker look knackered. Leaving Phil + Keegan out all day Saturday was ridiculous.

Steffan wrote:

JAS wrote:Got to take your hat off to Donaldson, balls of steel from the rookie coming down the stretch.

He is a Ponty boy so I never doubted him for a minute

Born there but spent his youth in Macclesfield (same year as me at school)

McLaren wrote:The USA were missing DJ, Tiger and Dufner.  Those three on form would have vastly improved team USA.


I am of the opinion that the captains don't really matter, but using Faldo and Watson as examples I could be persuaded that the captain can ruin team spirit.  I would never except the captain could have a meaningful positive effect, they can just avoid making stupendously bad decisions.

Woods has been one of the worst American Ryder Cup players in history. He's absolutely terrible in Fourballs and Foursomes and his overall record only looks average because of a half decent singles record and it is highly questionable whether he would improve the team at all.
In fact, his absence could be argued that strengthens the American team.

McLaren wrote:The USA were missing DJ, Tiger and Dufner.  Those three on form would have vastly improved team USA.


I am of the opinion that the captains don't really matter, but using Faldo and Watson as examples I could be persuaded that the captain can ruin team spirit.  I would never except the captain could have a meaningful positive effect, they can just avoid making stupendously bad decisions.

I think the Captains do matter, it doesn't have to be direct through... All the European success dates back to the Jacklin Captaincy era. The big thing that Jacklin introduced was making the players feel special... it's a soft touchy feely thing but such are the fine margins at the top of the sport that it can be the slightest little bit extra comfort factor that will make a player rise an extra half percent (a bit like Brailsford's philosophy to Team Sky cycling) and the Tesco mantra...Every little helps. McGinley you have to say left no stone unturned in his preparation and recognising what the players needed. Faldo, as meticulous as he was personally with his own game, totally missed that aspect of the Captaincy...with obvious results.

super_realist wrote:Did anyone else think Alex Ferguson had a touch of the Alzheimers about him today?

For sure Watson didn't have a touch of Azinger about him...

There was a time when USA were pretty much by far the better golfers, that time is now long gone. So now its about fine margins (as Jas has also said). The captains role is hugely important. Sure, ultimately they don't hit any shots but they sure can go a long way towards setting the stage to get the very best out of their respective players. Team dynamic being a big one Europe always seem to get right.
I think Watson got it very wrong bring in wounded veterans for the team talk. It seems to imply "look at the sacrifices these guys have made for their country, now don't let them down". That just adds pressure, too much.

pedro wrote:Why play a guy who has 1 point from 3 matches (=Rory).

Is McGinley making the "Tiger Woods" mistake?

err no.

The wounded vets thing was sick. Even more anachronistic than Watson himself. More like the idea of a team sports legend like Ferguson.

Phil also mentioned that nobody on the US team was involved in anything; picks, pairings, nothing. The European approach has always been different - involving your key players/stallwarts in key decisions.

Surprised that Darren Clarke wasn't VC. Guess he would be the obvious choice for Captain next time.

The Americans can't go back to Azinger. Don't think he's in touch with the Tour anymore. Couples is a joker, otherwise Stricker or even Phil.

hogie wrote:

pedro wrote:Why play a guy who has 1 point from 3 matches (=Rory).

Is McGinley making the "Tiger Woods" mistake?

err no.

Rory wasn't great in the doubles. But he sure redeemed himself today.

2 points out of 4 is pretty decent.

Indeed Pedro, Ferguson for the team talk was perfect. I know Monty sought his advice during his captaincy. Phil I think will make a good captain some day, next one might be a bit soon for him though. Clarke certainly a good shout for 2016 in the US.

super_realist wrote:2 points out of 4 is pretty decent.

Would you ever play a guy a fourth time, if he only had 1 point after three matches and didn't play particularly well? Unless you're American captain and Woods is on the team? Even Poulter was benched.

McIlroy hadn't played well Friday, but Saturday morning he was good, just had zero support from Poulter until 15. I think it was fairly obvious why he got played again in the afternoon; Stenson had a bad back, Bjorn was not really playing well, Poulter was definitely not playing well nor was Gallacher.

John Cregan wrote:I just see him a bit like Paul Lawrie - he will probably not reach the heights required to make the team again............

Except Paul Lawrie did reach the heights to make the team a second time

McLaren wrote:The USA were missing DJ, Tiger and Dufner.  Those three on form would have vastly improved team USA.


I am of the opinion that the captains don't really matter, but using Faldo and Watson as examples I could be persuaded that the captain can ruin team spirit.  I would never except the captain could have a meaningful positive effect, they can just avoid making stupendously bad decisions.

9C? Seriously?

pedro wrote:The wounded vets thing was sick. Even more anachronistic than Watson himself. More like the idea of a team sports legend like Ferguson.

Except no-one on the U.S. side said it was anything except "inspirational" etc etc etc. Now they lose and it's a joke? That's a pathetic attitude.

pedro wrote:Phil also mentioned that nobody on the US team was involved in anything; picks, pairings, nothing. The European approach has always been different - involving your key players/stallwarts in key decisions....

Who gives a damn what that tax-avoiding, gurning twit thinks? If I was anywhere near the U.S. setup, I wouldn't let him near the team again. Ever. Real classy Phil, traducing your captain like that, in public. What a contemptible prat.

Phil has a dreadful record in Ryder Cup, he should probably look at himself before blaming the Captain.

Well I just refer his comments. In fact, applying the 'pod' strategy (as Phil indirectly advocates for) would imply breaking up the Spieth/Reed and Walker/Fowler pairing!!! Hmmm Phil.

Watson has not really covered himself in glory, but neither has Phil with his comments. This POD system sounds crazy anyway, but it is the only thing that has worked in years and years! Hunter looked pretty uncomfortable next to Phil in the press conference. My wife who puts up with golf and pays attention to majors and the Ryder Cup, declared she really did not like Fat Pat Reed. Though we both seem to think Thomas Bjorn is a decent guy. Especially reading he went in to the press conference with Jamie Donaldson riding on his back.

My 2p...

Europe were better than I expected and the US not as good - I predicted a close competition and in reality Europe had the upper hand for 80% of the time and it always felt like they would see it through.

I did get somethings right -

Poulter did not perform and the odd good shot and fist pumping/eye bulging looked a bit forced and more like desperation than inspiration.

McIlroy didn't come in playing well but improved and grew as the competition went on - his front 9 in the singles was almost perfect.

A lot of credit has to go to GMac in playing/supporting so well with Vic D and then turning his match around against Speith - no doubt Speith helped him a bit but it would have been easy to get dragged down into a scrappy battle and come out with a half rather than the win.

In the same vein, Westwood played well with Donaldson who for me was Rookie of the Week - very cool and collected.

Most of the US team were a bit anonymous, Speith and Reed being the only exceptions, whereas lots of the Euros played a memorable part - (setting aside those above), Rose & Stenson x 2 and McIlroy & Garcia. In the end that was the difference.

I couldn't believe Mahan at the 18th - schoolboy error.

beninho wrote:Watson has not really covered himself in glory, but neither has Phil with his comments. This POD system sounds crazy anyway, but it is the only thing that has worked in years and years! Hunter looked pretty uncomfortable next to Phil in the press conference. My wife who puts up with golf and pays attention to majors and the Ryder Cup, declared she really did not like Fat Pat Reed. Though we both seem to think Thomas Bjorn is a decent guy. Especially reading he went in to the press conference with Jamie Donaldson riding on his back.

The pod thing is just a chance success - he was up against Faldo and I don't think anyone has said he did an inspirational job. Pods might inspire some. I, for example, would hate it. Azinger only did it because he's a military-obsessive and has an Admiral(?) for a dad.

Mahan on 18: ironically I think he was afraid of duffing it.

pedro wrote:Mahan on 18: ironically I think he was afraid of duffing it.

I feel a bit sorry for him. That chunk at Celtic Manor. Charging his putt on Saturday (Zach then missing the return to lose their match) and that wonderful feel he put into the flop shot yesterday. He seems like he has a big problem with nerves - nothing wrong with that but it's shown up mercilessly in that environment.

Mahan's a very good golfer. Like so many of the American Team.
Europe has half a dozen great golfers, and they mostly came to play.
There's the difference right there.

I will be amazed if Donaldson is not back for the next one. He looked so comfortable in this environment. If Poulter is not in great form for the next one, then I don't think the captain will be criticised for leaving him out. Maybe there should be no captain's picks. Just play the 12 who qualified.

navyblueshorts wrote:

beninho wrote:Watson has not really covered himself in glory, but neither has Phil with his comments. This POD system sounds crazy anyway, but it is the only thing that has worked in years and years! Hunter looked pretty uncomfortable next to Phil in the press conference. My wife who puts up with golf and pays attention to majors and the Ryder Cup, declared she really did not like Fat Pat Reed. Though we both seem to think Thomas Bjorn is a decent guy. Especially reading he went in to the press conference with Jamie Donaldson riding on his back.

The pod thing is just a chance success - he was up against Faldo and I don't think anyone has said he did an inspirational job. Pods might inspire some. I, for example, would hate it. Azinger only did it because he's a military-obsessive and has an Admiral(?) for a dad.

Mickelson is out of order and should shut up..............Pods make you miss from 6 feet do they ??..............

Didn't play well enough end of.

WTF is the pod system?

When Zinger was the American captain (in 2008) he broke the team up into 3 groups (or Pods) of 4 players. 3 teams within a team and each “Pod” had a lot more say on who was playing with who etc. …. Of course as it was the only time this century that the Americans won, Mickelson thinks it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. We all know that the reason we lost in 2008 was that Faldo tried to the worst captain in Ryder Cup history. Sorry Nick you didn’t even come close to Hal Sutton.

SmithersJones wrote:WTF is the pod system?

Some military principle that has been brought forward as one of the reasons the US won in 2008 (despite Faldo, Garcia and Harrington singlehandedly won it for them).

Small groups of 4 with a leader, led by an experienced player nursing the rookies/youngsters.

Well it was hardly the rookies/youngsters who were the problem this time around Phil. In fact, if that tactics should have been applied this year, it would have meant that the Fowler/Walker and Spieth/Reed groups would never have happened. (!)

Still I’m sure that whoever is US captain next time he will bring in some depraved Navy Seal as motivational speaker, telling how he survived naked in the jungle for 3 months with only his mate and a Stanley knife.

And while Phil and Furyk may be history next time, their torch will be carried on by Mahan, Zacher, Dustin, Simpson and even Bubba.

I doubt Simpson will be near a Ryder cup team again, increasingly looking like one of the worst players to win a major in the last decade or so.


The more I hear about the pod system the easier it is to believe that Watson rightly had no patience for phil's incoherent self entitled clap trap. Maybe we should give watson credit for at least making the americans look sane given the ideas he seems to have had to contend with.

Gerry Watson seems to be getting off scot free. He has a truly abysmal record in the Ryder Cup.

Fowler's record surprised me. 8 matches; no wins.

Watson did happen to play a sh!t hot Justin Rose on Saturday. There's plenty on the US team that didn't have a great Ryder Cup and only Patrick Reed went unbeaten on their team.

Stenson/Rose were out of this world Saturday and Kaymer hot Sunday. Still I think the US team would be better off without him.

As an aside: From a European pov I'd be pretty p!ssed if I was Whobuisson's PR agent. Undefeated, yet we hardly saw him.

pedro wrote:Stenson/Rose were out of this world Saturday and Kaymer hot Sunday. Still I think the US team would be better off without him.

As an aside: From a European pov I'd be pretty p!ssed if I was Whobuisson's PR agent. Undefeated, yet we hardly saw him.

Do you mean in terms of only playing 3 matches or on TV? He increased his reputation no end with his performances in the Foresomes.
I was a bit surprised you didn't see more of his game on TV when I seen it round the course but then found out him and Zack Johnson halved the first 10 holes in pars. With 11 other matches on the course, out last and scoring like that, think its more understandable.

I was very disappointed that we didn't see more than about 4-5 of the players tee off from the first.
Sky TV are pretty woeful, I was sick to death of the betting adverts every 10 minutes. Andrew Coltart is dreadful too.

I refer to the TV coverage. But would probably also have played him twice Saturday.

Super - yes the adverts are annoying but they still do a better job that BBC would have done had they been the prime broadcaster. Surprised at you singling out Colthart.. in my opinion the Sky "B" team are far preferable to the "A" team. Give me Rob Lee, Colthart, Howeller, Clark (Howard), Boxall and Radar any day over Murray, Livingstone, Monty, Roe and Critchley. Yes, perhaps their standards slipped a little for this past weekend's coverage but they are generally very good

Stream it super, you may have to live with Dutch commentary but no ads.

I was there on Thursday. Sarah Stirk was walking the course. She is a lot hotter and thinner in the flesh.

Phil's attack on Tom at the press conference was shocking. No class.

Almost throw something at the TV when Poulter was being interviewed after the win, "we did" this and that, when the truth was he played sh!t. Garcia then got interviewed next and he started off apologising for his poor play when he played much, much better than Poulter. Poulter reminded me of John Terry putting on his kit after sitting out of the champions league final. Self promoting.............

People on this board have been very modest in their celebrations this time around...

Of course it never got real close but there was a time during Sunday where it looked very red, so I got a bit nervous at some point. Especially when Reed won on 18...

But Ryder Cup is always great and I already look forward to Hazeltine. Hopefully against a revitalised American team. To be honest it was not fun watching Phil, Furyk etc. at that post cup presser.

Just registered for ticket info for Hazeltine - no idea what the chances will eventually be to get lucky.

Given the age of so many of last week's protagonists, I imagine there'll be wholesale team changes by then.

Davie wrote:Super - yes the adverts are annoying but they still do a better job that BBC would have done had they been the prime broadcaster. Surprised at you singling out Colthart.. in my opinion the Sky "B" team are far preferable to the "A" team. Give me Rob Lee, Colthart, Howeller, Clark (Howard), Boxall and Radar any day over Murray, Livingstone, Monty, Roe and Critchley. Yes, perhaps their standards slipped a little for this past weekend's coverage but they are generally very good

I like Howell, Clark and even Boxall is ok, Stirk is sneakily attractive I think too.
I don't know if Coltart is part of the regualr line up, but he's simply "too" Scottish, whilst he sounds like he's run the 100m between every comment. He can't say more than 4 words without drawing breath. Wayne Riley is simply too annoying as well.

Harmon is quite decent, impartial value despite his freakish eyes.

I'd much rather have Allis, Brown and Cotter though.

Don't know what Nick Dougherty did in that studio (well maybe I do...) and although he seems a nice guy, he's not quite the right person to talk about what it is to perform and to play under pressure....

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:USA  15 - Europe 13

European top points scorer - Rory Mcilroy.............

European Lowest Points scorer - Lee Westwood....

USA Top points scorer  -  Jim Furyk.............

USA Lowest points scorer  -  Webb Simpson........

USA 8 - 8 Europe going into the singles......

Bit late, but this is how these predictions panned out...

USA 11 1/2 - Europe 16 1/2

European top points scorer - Justin Rose

European Lowest Points scorer - Stephen Gallacher

USA Top points scorer - Patrick Reed

USA Lowest points scorer - Gerry Watson

USA 6 - 10 Europe going into the singles......


Anyone close?