Munster v Saracens

First topic message reminder :

This place really is going to the dogs...1:00pm the day before a huge European night with the teams named for over 2 hours and no tread up yet?!?!

Munster
Jones, Conway, Smith, Hurley, Zebo; Keats, Murray; Cronin, Casey, BJ; Foley, PO’C; P O’M (capt), TO’D, CJ Stander

Replacements: Guinazu, Kilcoyne, Archer, B Holland, Copeland, Williams, JJ, GvdH

Saracens
15. Alex Goode, 14. Chris Ashton, 13. Marlcelo Bosch, 12. Brad Barritt ©, 11. David Strettle; 10. Owen Farrell, 9. Neil de Kock; 1. Richard Barrington, 2. Jamie George, 3. Petrus Du Plessis, 4.George Kruis, 5. Jim Hamilton, 6. Kelly Brown, 7. Will Fraser, 8. Billy Vunipola.

Replacements; 16. Scott Spurling, 17. Rhys Gill, 18. James Johnston, 19. Mouritz Botha, 20. Jackson Wray, 21. Richard Wigglesworth, 22. Charlie Hodgson, 23. Duncan Taylor.

Where is the knock on there?

Artful_Dodger wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Looks as though the dubious yellow changed the course of the game.

You don't think tipping men beyond the horizontal and dropping them is a yellow card offense?  Fortunate that other players in the ruck broke his fall so he didn't land on the ground, otherwise probably red.

He didn't drop. He rolled him (using his head/neck/upper back as a pivot). Stupid, lifting legs up like that should always be a yellow (these days at least) but he didn't drop him...that I saw.

Premature Ash Splash

malky1963 wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

malky1963 wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Looks as though the dubious yellow changed the course of the game.

It was not dubious in the slightest

It was a home decision -

Would O'Connoll have been tolerated to back chat to the ref like he did at any other ground?

There is no referee home or away that would not have given yellow for that - their instructions are clear.
With this ref's track record he's lucky he didn't see red (which would have been the wrong call)

Agree to disagree on that - any comment on O'Connoll?

Bloody hell this is turgid stuff, well done Munster, some slightly more dynamic turgid play and some wonderful play acting got you the win

should have been a penalty to sarries not a yellow against. the munsterman was competing for the ball (hands all over it) while he was off his feet

crowd determined which way the ref saw it

I think 4-0 would be a pretty fair result from the game.

Good win should have been much greater gap on the score board.

I may be in a minority but I am loving this game... Wouldn't want that sort of rugby every week, but for pure physicality, it was amazing.

yappysnap wrote:Bloody hell this is turgid stuff, well done Munster, some slightly more dynamic turgid play and some wonderful play acting got you the win

You don't think it was a yellow card regardless of Standers reaction?

wolfball wrote:I may be in a minority but I am loving this game... Wouldn't want that sort of rugby every week, but for pure physicality, it was amazing.

Too many unforced errors for my liking for other than that it was good.

Shame that it was all the players not picked by England that played well in the backs for Sarries!

Farrell, Goode and Barrett were all pretty anonymous except for their mistakes

well played munster. ruthlessly punished sarries allowing the fans to become the ref after some sloppy play.

but munster. seriously. is that it? is there an attacking threat in the locker?

awful rugby to watch, even if it was physically competitive. so are bar brawls, but the difference is bar brawls are entertaining

Great game, I love a physical slugfest like that. Well done Munster.

HammerofThunor wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Looks as though the dubious yellow changed the course of the game.

You don't think tipping men beyond the horizontal and dropping them is a yellow card offense?  Fortunate that other players in the ruck broke his fall so he didn't land on the ground, otherwise probably red.

He didn't drop. He rolled him (using his head/neck/upper back as a pivot). Stupid, lifting legs up like that should always be a yellow (these days at least) but he didn't drop him...that I saw.

There was at least 6 inches of daylight between his head and the players in the ruck.Stander went up like that cos another Sarries player lifted as well,I'm sure the guy who got the yellow didn't intend to dump him like that but this ref sent off Payne last year for simply trying to catch a high ball.Sarries were very lucky to only lose a player for 10 mins to that ref (I wouldn't agree with either case being a red card but if the ref was consistent it would be).

should have been pen to sarries for playing the ball while off his feet. that is why his legs went up, because he was hanging onto something on the floor. pen sarries.

[quote="beshocked"]If both teams play like they did last week then I think Saracens will win.
I guess they didn't then
Golden opportunity to pick up an away win.
oh dear

Munster at home is still Munster at home but they had a lucky escape last weekend - Saracens are a stronger side than Sale by some distance.
not strong enough, clearly
ye were outplayed. Saracens = overrated

What a dire game. Saracens got their tactics and selection completely wrong.

Charlie should have come on at half time. Gill shouldn't have come on - he's a penalty machine and again he proved why! Barrington was doing fine. Just those two selection errors might have helped.

You know what you are going to get with Munster and to be fair they executed their gameplan well but Saracens should have done much better IMO.

Oh and that was a try in the corner - at least they got the try soon afterwards.

Utter rubbish, picking a player up and inverting him before dropping, whether it's on a prone player or the ground is a carding offence every time.

tatterd

take away your home crowd advantage and munster are far more overrated.

I don't particularly like the way the game is going but they've been yellows at least for a couple of years now. Stupid by Gill to lift like that, no one to blame but himself.

Although I'd reverse the penalty for the simulation. Belongs on the pitch of another sport.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

There was at least 6 inches of daylight between his head and the players in the ruck.Stander went up like that cos another Sarries player lifted as well,I'm sure the guy who got the yellow didn't intend to dump him like that but this ref sent off Payne last year for simply trying to catch a high ball.Sarries were very lucky to only lose a player for 10 mins to that ref (I wouldn't agree with either case being a red card but if the ref was consistent it would be).

Not really as they're different things. Therefore consistency doesn't come into it. And as I said, I felt he was rolled rather than dumped. If he was dumped I would say it should have been a red.

No they didn't tattered but no need to be a graceless winner.

- you had a howling banshee trying to put Bosch off his kick - not what I would expect from supposedly sporting fans....

Great win for Munster, Keatley needs to find his kicking boots though, was a lot closer on the scoreboard than it should have been.

tatterd wrote:

beshocked wrote:If both teams play like they did last week then I think Saracens will win.
I guess they didn't then
Golden opportunity to pick up an away win.
oh dear

Munster at home is still Munster at home but they had a lucky escape last weekend - Saracens are a stronger side than Sale by some distance.
not strong enough, clearly
ye were outplayed. Saracens = overrated

So smug about an achievement that has nothing at all to do with you.

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:

tatterd wrote:

beshocked wrote:If both teams play like they did last week then I think Saracens will win.
I guess they didn't then
Golden opportunity to pick up an away win.
oh dear

Munster at home is still Munster at home but they had a lucky escape last weekend - Saracens are a stronger side than Sale by some distance.
not strong enough, clearly
ye were outplayed. Saracens = overrated

So smug about an achievement that has nothing at all to do with you.

Maybe he was the sniper who shot Ashton with a plastic bullet?

Of course it was a deserved YC for Gill. Poor discipline from him was unsurprising.

The better side on the day won. Well done.

Congrats Munster

Good win and well deserved, and to deny Sarries the LBP was the cherry on top.

Never mind the begrudgers, and enjoy your win

quinsforever wrote:tatterd

take away your home crowd advantage and munster are far more overrated.

Quins I agree the home crowd at Thomond is a massive factor. but then it has always been so, and Saracens knew what to expect. I'm afraid Munster brought an intensity to the game that this top two Aviva team just could not match. Saracens were mullered in the second half, they didn't know what had hit them

Some bad losers on here, the better team won Sarries offered very little, if Munster defend as in this game they will win in London or take a point to see off Sarries.

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:

tatterd wrote:

beshocked wrote:If both teams play like they did last week then I think Saracens will win.
I guess they didn't then
Golden opportunity to pick up an away win.
oh dear

Munster at home is still Munster at home but they had a lucky escape last weekend - Saracens are a stronger side than Sale by some distance.
not strong enough, clearly
ye were outplayed. Saracens = overrated

So smug about an achievement that has nothing at all to do with you.

and it has something to do with you does it? Coached the Munster team did you?

tatterd

so lets see how the away fixture goes before we declare the 2013 HC finalist and 2012 semi finalists and 2013 and 2012 regualr season AP league winners overrated shall we

cause thats a hell of a lot better record than munster have had in the last few years in absolute and relative terms.

overrated. what a graceless comment, as pointed out above.

glamorganalun wrote:Some bad losers on here, the better team won Sarries offered very little, if Munster defend as in this game they will win in London or take a point to see off Sarries.

no-one is claiming sarries were the better team. but several are bemoaning the turgid style of rugby played, which only works with 26,000 home fans behind you. kick, kick, kick, hope for knock on or pen from scrum or infringement, kick again for lineout and rolling maul. and have several people chirping in the referees ear the entire match asking for professional fouls, yellows, etc, etc. If Nigel Owens were refereeing there would have been some amusing stfu comments towards POC and POM. just saying.

Congrats to Munster but I really hope the rest of the games this weekend aren't as dull ...

tatterd wrote:

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:

tatterd wrote:

beshocked wrote:If both teams play like they did last week then I think Saracens will win.
I guess they didn't then
Golden opportunity to pick up an away win.
oh dear

Munster at home is still Munster at home but they had a lucky escape last weekend - Saracens are a stronger side than Sale by some distance.
not strong enough, clearly
ye were outplayed. Saracens = overrated

So smug about an achievement that has nothing at all to do with you.

and it has something to do with you does it? Coached the Munster team did you?

No, but that's rather my point. The way you replied to a perfectly reasonable post in such a smug way would suggest you had something to do with it. Odd that the people who actually win are much less inclined to gloat than random blokes on the internet.

tatterd wrote:

quinsforever wrote:tatterd

take away your home crowd advantage and munster are far more overrated.

Quins I agree the home crowd at Thomond is a massive factor. but then it has always been so, and Saracens knew what to expect. I'm afraid Munster brought an intensity to the game that this top two Aviva team just could not match. Saracens were mullered in the second half, they didn't know what had hit them

True there, but then Sarries have repeatedly struggled against the more physical sides in Europe. Let's hope the home game is more interesting at least.

and actually, as far as attacking rugby goes, sarries offered far more. their discipline killed them. soft yellow (as in needless), soft pen for high tackle after try, poor decision of goode that gave lineout to Munster thereafter.

but attacking wise. munster were pants. and sarries were a bit better, but obviously not good enough.

quinsforever wrote:awful rugby to watch, even if it was physically competitive. so are bar brawls, but the difference is bar brawls are entertaining

LOVED IT. Of course I love that an Irish team won, but that tense power driven rugby is what makes our game great, the completely varied way it can by played.

In the past quins I suggested you didn't really understand the ethos of rugby (during the debate over stopping rugby become like football with galactico teams etc), and its comments like the above which remind me of that.

Tattered that is what is so disappointing. Munsters intensity was predictable yet Saracens didn't try to combat it!

Oh and I think everything I said before the game was spot on - the problem was that Saracens' performance was nowhere near as good as the Clermont game. Not playing the man of the match from last week in any of the 80 minutes was just idiotic.

Pretty sure I mentioned in earlier post about Saracens before the game needing to tighten up their discipline - another thing they failed at.

quinsforever wrote:tatterd

so lets see how the away fixture goes before we declare the 2013 HC finalist and 2012 semi finalists  and 2013 and 2012 regualr season AP league winners overrated shall we

cause thats a hell of a lot better record than munster have had in the last few years in absolute and relative terms.

overrated. what a graceless comment, as pointed out above.

Graceless - I'll take that - I've been called a lot worse than that by a lot better than you!
Lighten up Quins and go and have a
Me, I'm delighted that a pro 12 team sent the Saffacens packing. Just sayin'.............

wolfball wrote:

quinsforever wrote:awful rugby to watch, even if it was physically competitive. so are bar brawls, but the difference is bar brawls are entertaining

LOVED IT. Of course I love that an Irish team won, but that tense power driven rugby is what makes our game great, the completely varied way it can by played.

In the past quins I suggested you didn't really understand the ethos of rugby (during the debate over stopping rugby become like football with galactico teams etc), and its comments like the above which remind me of that.

silly boy. world rugby has moved on. you stick to your powerball. you wont beat a SH team as they will run tries in for fun if you kick to them all day like that. especially where you dont have home advantage. like in a world cup. wonder if thats why ireland are the most overranked side when it comes to world cups? ever considered that its you that doesnt get it?

BOD was a great player. In any other team eschewing "powerball" with decent quality around him, he would have been a legendary player. it's telling that BODs best moments were for Leinster not Ireland.

Has anyone noticed that Irish mods never moderate anti English posters?

Notch do your job for once!

Sounds like a fairly routine win for Munster. They will not care at all about begrudgers if their game plan worked.

Perhaps Notch is busy edit: clearly not ). If you have a problem with a post, report it using the reporting mechanism.

Just for clarification, tatterd is a Welsh fan not Munster...I think.

I don't think anyone is begrudging the win. Some found it boring (lot's of kicks, dropped balls and only one push over try is often classed as this (always if England have done it)). But that's about it. I like games like that personally but there were too many unforced errors for it to be great (as a semi-neutral).

Sarries will rue not picking up the LBP there. A couple of poor tactical mistakes as well. Barrington shouldn't have been taken off at HT with Sarries winning the scrum (especially in the hindsighted light of the Gill yellow), they lost initiative thereafter with it shaping up to be an increasingly powerful weapon. Similarly Bosch came off too early.

What was also obvious against a good lineout side like Munster is what they're missing with Borthwick's retirement.

beshocked wrote:Has anyone noticed that Irish mods never moderate anti English posters?

Notch do your job for once!

I just logged on 10 seconds ago and this is the first and only post on this thread I have read, so I can't comment on anything else. There have been absolutely zero reports to the moderation team on this thread. No-one has reported anything. The forum is reactively moderated, not observed 24/7.

Suggest you go sit in the corner with a wet cloth on your head. And if something actually bothers you, report it instead of sounding off like that.

The mods do a good if thankless job beshocked

Friday night Sarries loss always brings out a few gloaters

Notch wrote:

beshocked wrote:Has anyone noticed that Irish mods never moderate anti English posters?

Notch do your job for once!

I just logged on 10 seconds ago and this is the first and only post on this thread I have read, so I can't comment on anything else. There have been absolutely zero reports to the moderation team on this thread. No-one has reported anything. The forum is reactively moderated, not observed 24/7.

Suggest you go sit in the corner with a wet cloth on your head. And if something actually bothers you, report it instead of sounding off like that.

Having read back...

Nothing to see here, some poor winners and some sore losers- both will sleep it off.

Notch, we're all really just warming up after a summer of limited 606 aggravation.

Is kind of like pre-season training

quinsforever wrote:

wolfball wrote:

quinsforever wrote:awful rugby to watch, even if it was physically competitive. so are bar brawls, but the difference is bar brawls are entertaining

LOVED IT. Of course I love that an Irish team won, but that tense power driven rugby is what makes our game great, the completely varied way it can by played.

In the past quins I suggested you didn't really understand the ethos of rugby (during the debate over stopping rugby become like football with galactico teams etc), and its comments like the above which remind me of that.

silly boy. world rugby has moved on. you stick to your powerball. you wont beat a SH team as they will run tries in for fun if you kick to them all day like that. especially where you dont have home advantage. like in a world cup. wonder if thats why ireland are the most overranked side when it comes to world cups? ever considered that its you that doesnt get it?

BOD was a great player. In any other team eschewing "powerball" with decent quality around him, he would have been a legendary player. it's telling that BODs best moments were for Leinster not Ireland.

More a case of doing what was needed to get the job done. Sometime it is exactly what is needed and had Keatley had his kicking boots on and the scoreline been a little further apart maybe we would have seen something different towards then end, but it wasn't and we didn't, doesn't make it any less of a game. If not enthralling from a running rugby perspective was for the sheer physicallity on both sides.