World Tour Finals Thread - Match & Prediction Thread

[Guest]

First topic message reminder :

So the ATPs premier showpiece event hits the O2 on Sunday. The sixth showing at the O2 and yielded only 3 different winners. Very interesting this year. 3 virgin qualifiers in Cillic, Raonic and Nishikori. Can we see a new winner? Can Nishikori and Raonic win the biggest title of their careers to date? Federer will have an eye on the DC like his compatriot Wawrinka, though he is woefully out of form of late. Has Murray much left in the tank to win his first title here at the O2? Can Berdych do a Davydenko and strike out of nowhere? Will it be a routine Djokovic victory?

For me the 2 that qualify from each group will be:

Group A

1) Djokovic
2) Raonic

Group B

1) Murray
2) Federer

Djokovic/Murray final

Winner: Djokovic

[Jahu]

Thats it, good break.

Keep your serve now.

[Jahu]

Serve is back!

3:0 up, go Fed go.

[Jahu]

Fed stop it!

[Jahu]

Bagel approaching...

[Jahu]

Come on Andy, give us a match for ffs.

[CaledonianCraig]

I think now people will understand why I posted the epitaph thread a few weeks ago. These crunch matches this year Andy has capitulated like I've never seen him capitulate before - very worrying. Sure Roger is playing well but Jeez Andy is in a mess right now.

[Danny_1982]

Well this is going well...

[Henman Bill]

Wow, turned the TV on and it hadn't started, so went away just to write down my list of things to do in town tomorrow, came back thinking it might be 1-0 or 1-1, and the match is half done! No real surprise that Federer takes to the front, he has always been better than the surface, and his form this year and in this tournament has just been better.

[Jahu]

Fed give him a stick, dont bagel him, dont be nasty.

[CaledonianCraig]

Rafa V Andy RG Semi - Capitulation with Andy's heaviest slam match defeat ever.

Dimi V Andy Wimbledon Semi - Meek surrender.

Roger V Andy WTF crunch match - Basically thus far a massacre.

[Haddie-nuff]

I think now people will understand why I posted the epitaph thread a few weeks ago. These crunch matches this year Andy has capitulated like I've never seen him capitulate before - very worrying. Sure Roger is playing well but Jeez Andy is in a mess right now.

CC I couldn't agree with you more.. whatever it is he cannot seem to shake it off. He seems to have no self belief whatsoever.. he is playing like a talented qualifier that finds himself facing Fed across the net.. and is scared !!
Come on Andy give it some wellie

[Henman Bill]

Bizarre game from Federer, a couple of drops off the serve which I can only assume was a focus on saving energy at this stage in the set. Despite throwing those 2 points away as a gift, still wins the game!

Tried to help Murray save face there!

Any question of an injury?

[Jahu]

Holy scotch, this ain't good.

[CaledonianCraig]

You see we are getting extremes this year - heaviest slam match defeat of his career and now his first bagelled set V Federer as well. Master class or not from Federer it emphasises how far Andy has fallen sadly.

[Jahu]

Jose giving some good advice to Andy there.

[laverfan]

Absolutely horrible from Murray (and somewhere I stated he could beat Federer in two, on me).

[Danny_1982]

A shadow of his former self... Everything is a few percent worse than it was. I don't know where he goes from here.

[CaledonianCraig]

I think now people will understand why I posted the epitaph thread a few weeks ago. These crunch matches this year Andy has capitulated like I've never seen him capitulate before - very worrying. Sure Roger is playing well but Jeez Andy is in a mess right now.

CC I couldn't agree with you more.. whatever it is he cannot seem to shake it off. He seems to have no self belief whatsoever.. he is playing like a talented qualifier that finds himself facing Fed across the net.. and is scared !!
Come on Andy give it some wellie

I hope I am wrong but that epitaph thread may prove to be the most inciteful insightful and accurate I have posted on here.

[Henman Bill]

This is not a crunch match though, I am not having that, it was always a challenge to win in straights, it's not a slam, and in any case his form vs Djokovic's suggests Murray was only playing for 200 ranking points anyway. This was always a fairly minor match.

Anyway, now it's a dead rubber. Federer has won the group and Nishikori is second.

[Haddie-nuff]

You see we are getting extremes this year - heaviest slam match defeat of his career and now his first bagelled set V Federer as well. Master class or not from Federer it emphasises how far Andy has fallen sadly.

But his final in Valencia ? he was so fired up. Yes playing Robredo but then Tommy was playing out of his skin in that match he gave nothing to Andy whatsoever... Andy had to fight.. he now seems to have lost the will to do so

[Jahu]

CC, please relax, next year will be much better

[CaledonianCraig]

CC, please relax, next year will be much better

Don't get me wrong I am relaxed (may not sound it from my posts) as he already has two slams now and an Olympic Gold in his career but it is very worrying to see what direction Andy's career is heading.

[CaledonianCraig]

You see we are getting extremes this year - heaviest slam match defeat of his career and now his first bagelled set V Federer as well. Master class or not from Federer it emphasises how far Andy has fallen sadly.

But his final in Valencia ? he was so fired up. Yes playing Robredo but then Tommy was playing out of his skin in that match he gave nothing to Andy whatsoever... Andy had to fight.. he now seems to have lost the will to do so

It is the inconsistency though and the fragility against the best players. Robredo is not one of the best (very good) but not amongst the very best.

[Haddie-nuff]

CC dont give up on him.. something is troubling him Im sure. Who knows
What is going on in his personal life...could be something that is affecting him mentally ???

[Henman Bill]

Andy had a great run with some good matches e.g. againnst Robredo but I don't recall too many wins against other big players this year.

[Guest]

I have to say Andy this is plain sh!t. Pure and utter sh!t.

I think he needs another back op. Maybe this time he will gain a backbone!

[Jahu]

CC, exectly, and more will come.

[CaledonianCraig]

CC dont give up on him.. something is troubling him Im sure. Who knows
What is going on in his personal life...could be something that is affecting him mentally ???

No it isn't about giving up on him but more a stark realisation that he seems to be in an irreversible downward spiral in his career.

[Henman Bill]

This is awkward viewing. It's like watching Federer play some 500 ranked young player that's been given a wildcard. Federer has not even bothered to switch into top gear.

[Jahu]

LK, dont get all medical now

[HM Murdock]

Andy insists he is now pain free, so the drop-off must be largely a mental rather than physical issue.

The good news in this, Murray fans, is that he'll probably snap himself out of it at some point. I'd be surprised if this remains his normal level.

Is Mauresmo there? That's a pairing that hasn't really got off the ground yet.

[Josiah Maiestas]

I've always felt if Murray tried to play an attacking game with Federer on HC he would get embarrassed. No coach can teach him how to serve at this stage of his career, realistically.

[Jahu]

Fed should of played Djoko tonight, not Andy.

[CaledonianCraig]

I have to say Andy this is plain sh!t. Pure and utter sh!t.

I think he needs another back op. Maybe this time he will gain a backbone!

Agree on the first point but the second point is off the mark. He just looks like a punch drunk boxer who has taken too many blows to the head this year.

[Jahu]

Josiah, where you been hiding?

[Guest]

I have to say Andy this is plain sh!t. Pure and utter sh!t.

I think he needs another back op. Maybe this time he will gain a backbone!

Agree on the first point but the second point is off the mark. He just looks like a punch drunk boxer who has taken too many blows to the head this year.

CC I have rarely been angry with a Murray performance, but this outstinks the lot of them.

A punch drunk would put up a much better fight on a late Saturday night.

[Jahu]

Fed, giving him a game you git. Come on.

[Henman Bill]

Back on the head to head, which was referenced on another thread, you wouldn't believe it from watching today, but the last time Federer was ahead in the head to head was after he lead 1-0 after winning in Bangkok, in 2005. Since then Murray has always been level or ahead.

I have to say, I couldn't have been more wrong, when I thought after the Australian Open 2013, that Murray was now on top on the rivlary, almost irrespective of surface. His Olympics win has been comprehensive, and he was much the better player at AO'13, even though it went to 5 sets.

Since then 2 wins for Federer, probably about to be 3. If Federer wins this set, that will be 5 in a row against Murray without even the need for a tiebreak.

[CaledonianCraig]

I have to say Andy this is plain sh!t. Pure and utter sh!t.

I think he needs another back op. Maybe this time he will gain a backbone!

Agree on the first point but the second point is off the mark. He just looks like a punch drunk boxer who has taken too many blows to the head this year.

CC I have rarely been angry with a Murray performance, but this outstinks the lot of them.

A punch drunk would put up a much better fight on a late Saturday night.

Believe me I share your bemusement but I don't think this is anything to do with lack of a backbone but more of confidence completely shot on the big occasions.

[Josiah Maiestas]

Josiah, where you been hiding?

Nursing a broken arm Jahu

[Jahu]

Best angles on the week.

[Guest]

I have to say Andy this is plain sh!t. Pure and utter sh!t.

I think he needs another back op. Maybe this time he will gain a backbone!

Agree on the first point but the second point is off the mark. He just looks like a punch drunk boxer who has taken too many blows to the head this year.

CC I have rarely been angry with a Murray performance, but this outstinks the lot of them.

A punch drunk would put up a much better fight on a late Saturday night.

Believe me I share your bemusement but I don't think this is anything to do with lack of a backbone but more of confidence completely shot on the big occasions.

I don't buy the mental side of it. You don't win titles being mentally shot.

It's like watching a truffle shuffle!

[Henman Bill]

Fed should of played Djoko tonight, not Andy.

With big apologies for Murray fans but the truth is the way Djokovic is playing Federer will need to play a little better than this.

[Jahu]

Josiah, where you been hiding?

Nursing a broken arm Jahu

Oh man, sorry to hear that, hope all good and get better soon.

Will send you some grapes with DHL

[Henman Bill]

The crowd are not exactly getting behind Murray are they. For sure he will get a big cheer is he wins a game but they are not exactly trying to motivate.

[Josiah Maiestas]

2 more games for a Double Juicy Bagel, now i'm hungry

[Jahu]

Fed should of played Djoko tonight, not Andy.

With big apologies for Murray fans but the truth is the way Djokovic is playing Federer will need to play a little better than this.

HB, since when this is a truth forum? Dont ruin the party

P.S: agree

[Henman Bill]

I once played a Japanese guy. it was a close set with a lot of deuces but he went into a 5-0 lead before eventually winning 6-2. I did wonder if he had given me a couple of games there. It will be interesting to watch Federer on this next game. Do we think he will ruthlessly go for the double bagel or chuck it away?

[Jahu]

The crowd are not exactly getting behind Murray are they. For sure he will get a big cheer is he wins a game but they are not exactly trying to motivate.

This is what happens when he gets Political a few months ago.

[It Must Be Love]

Fed should of played Djoko tonight, not Andy.

With big apologies for Murray fans but the truth is the way Djokovic is playing Federer will need to play a little better than this.

Federer has made no mistakes, he's been so good.

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