Ireland V France

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IRELAND v FRANCE
14 February 2015
KO: 17:00
Aviva Stadium, Dublin

Referee: Wayne Barnes (RFU)
AR1: Nigel Owens (WRU)
AR2: Stuart Berry (SARU)
TMO: Graham Hughes (RFU)

IRELAND

15 Rob Kearney
14 Tommy Bowe
13 Jared Payne
12 Robbie Henshaw
11 Simon Zebo
10 Johnny Sexton
9 Conor Murray

1 Jack McGrath
2 Rory Best
3 Mike Ross
4 Devin Toner
5 Paul O'Connell (c)
6 Peter O'Mahony
7 Sean O'Brien
8 Jamie Heaslip

16 Sean Cronin, 17 Cian Healy, 18 Martin Moore, 19 Iain Henderson, 20 Jordi Murphy, 21 Isaac Boss, 22 Ian Madigan, 23 Felix Jones

FRANCE

15 Scott Spedding
14 Yoann Huget
13 Mathieu Bastareaud
12 Wesley Fofana
11 Teddy Thomas
10 Camille Lopez
9 Rory Kockott

1 Eddy Ben Arous
2 Guilhem Guirado
3 Rabah Slimani
4 Pascal Papé
5 Yoann Maestri
6 Thierry Dusautoir (c)
7 Bernard Le Roux
8 Damien Chouly

16 Benjamin Kayser, 17 Uini Atonio, 18 Vincent Debaty, 19 Romain Taofifenua, 20 Loann Goujon, 21 Morgan Parra, 22 Rémi Talès, 23 Rémi Lamerat

*****
This is an interesting battle, and very much a case of brains v brawn.
French flair is long gone, they now rely on the likes of Bastareaud and their pack of overweight lumps to get over the line.
Ireland are very much a team of robots, Joe gives instructions on how to dismantle a team like IKEA gives instructions on how to make a cupboard. With the right personnel in Sexton, SOB and the likes of Heaslip at the helm, they should be able to devour the French fatties like they're the last square of a Kinder Bueno.
All logic points to an Irish victory, but as so often happens the French defy logic.

Let's have winning rugby first, everything else will follow!

He's had a pretty successful year to be fair. Most successful coaches will work off the basis of a strong and stable team and then add the flourishes later. You can't produce fire works all the time.

Remember reading an article recently that explained Joe's success with Irish teams well. Irish people, as a sporting nation are not confident enough, get jittery when favourites and generally bottle things. Schmidt doesn't allow them to think of anything other than their own jobs on the pitch, and the shift in focus seems to work - players have no time to doubt.

Obviously, the NZ loss proved we can still bottle it during the last few moments of a game, when even the best plans will unravel with tired heads, but holding out for the French & Australian wins was nice to see.

Sin stop going on about Schmidt not being able to deal with talent - he has had a massive part in developing Sexton, currently the best 10 in the world, Murray also credits him with a lot. He doesn't suffer fools, and has no time for eejits, that is all.

kunu wrote:Remember reading an article recently that explained Joe's success with Irish teams well. Irish people, as a sporting nation are not confident enough, get jittery when favourites and generally bottle things. Schmidt doesn't allow them to think of anything other than their own jobs on the pitch, and the shift in focus seems to work - players have no time to doubt.

Obviously, the NZ loss proved we can still bottle it during the last few moments of a game, when even the best plans will unravel with tired heads, but holding out for the French & Australian wins was nice to see.

Sin stop going on about Schmidt not being able to deal with talent - he has had a massive part in developing Sexton, currently the best 10 in the world, Murray also credits him with a lot. He doesn't suffer fools, and has no time for eejits, that is all.

Sexton has only become world class since he moved to Racing.

Murray was doing very well with his club coaches. Murray credits Rob Howley a lot more than he credits Schmidt, but if you want to keep getting picked, you better say nice things about your coach.

If you need to know more about other approaches, ask Darren Cave.

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Since Schmidt was apointed Sin has been desperate to try to expose chinks in his armour. It is a Munster thing.

Schmidt can't deal with talent. He couldn't cope with Carlos Spencer - he just wants boring robots.

Look at Leinster - they can't function now without him. The Irish team are afraid to pass or offload now because Joe thinks its too adventurous. I'm sicking of watching players going to ground the whole time. Horrible rugby.

Your problem is you really struggle to come to terms with having to support anyone that isnt from whatever backward little parish you are from. That is what it boils down to Sin. It has little to do with Schmidts strengths and weaknesses.

na…. just horrible, boring rugby.

Strange, we scored more points in 2014 than we have since 2007. Maybe I missed your critisim of the boring rugby played during those years..

Sin é wrote:
na…. just horrible, boring rugby.

When Munster won both their Heineken cups they played horrible 10 man rugby quite often. I assume you didnt support them then?

Last 6 nations Ireland scored more tries than anyone else. Fail to see how scoring lots of tries is boring.

Cave was never THAT promising- and you know it. Average. With Murray it's impossible to tell who he credits more, so we'll leave it there - he credits Joe for part of his development, and he has continued to improve massively following the Lions tour, and played very well for Ireland. As much as he could be trying to flatter Joe, he could equally just be being nice to Rob Howley & Others because he's sound - no point in speculating.

As for Sexton, it's clear Joe has had a hand in his development, its undeniable.

And the team is.....

Sin é wrote:
Sexton has only become world class since he moved to Racing.

Murray was doing very well with his club coaches. Murray credits Rob Howley a lot more than he credits Schmidt, but if you want to keep getting picked, you better say nice things about your coach.

If you need to know more about other approaches, ask Darren Cave.

A few A grade jokes there Sin - keep it up, you might get that stint on Saturday Night Live or take over from Jon Stewart on The Daily Show

Sin é wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:
He is turning the players into robots who are afraid to think for themselves. Eventually, it will all fall apart. Just look at Leinster.

..as did the experiment in Players being allowed to run from anywhere (on instinct), doing their own thing.

With no support chasing after them (because the other players had their own individual ideas about how to play)

http://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/rugby-union/rob-kearney-feeling-liberated-under-3090927

Keraney says this about Schmidt in comparison to Kidney

Explaining his approach to working under the former boss, Kearney added: “I would always back myself a little bit to fall over and never pass or offload.

“I think you always have to go with your instincts on it and if you think it is on to go and have a crack, then do.

“I suppose it is probably a little bit more comforting knowing you have a coach who wants you to [fall over] do that."

fixed that.

Never concede defeat huh,just dodge and deflect cos you can't actually make a coherent argument.

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:
na…. just horrible, boring rugby.

When Munster won both their Heineken cups they played horrible 10 man rugby quite often. I assume you didnt support them then?

Last 6 nations Ireland scored more tries than anyone else. Fail to see how scoring lots of tries is boring.

I'm not fickle with my support. I support Ireland and Munster regardless of how they play or who coaches them.

Munster & Ireland were heavily criticised for the way they played. I'm just surprised that everyone seems to now enjoy the Munster way

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:
na…. just horrible, boring rugby.

When Munster won both their Heineken cups they played horrible 10 man rugby quite often. I assume you didnt support them then?

Last 6 nations Ireland scored more tries than anyone else. Fail to see how scoring lots of tries is boring.

I'm not fickle with my support. I support Ireland and Munster regardless of how they play or who coaches them.

Munster & Ireland were heavily criticised for the way they played. I'm just surprised that everyone seems to now enjoy the Munster way

You keep saying Munster lads don't take naturally to it, and don't pretty much like it but have to keep praising it to get on the team??  You keep telling us it's a gameplan for brainless idiots who can't think for themselves?

PS- and you're the only Munster fan who admits they don't like the Munster way....

The way this thread has decented into the usual tripe is why people don't come on to this site and participate in discussion as much any more. Sad times.

Any sign of the team announcement?

2pm

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:
na…. just horrible, boring rugby.

When Munster won both their Heineken cups they played horrible 10 man rugby quite often. I assume you didnt support them then?

Last 6 nations Ireland scored more tries than anyone else. Fail to see how scoring lots of tries is boring.

I'm not fickle with my support. I support Ireland and Munster regardless of how they play or who coaches them.

Munster & Ireland were heavily criticised for the way they played. I'm just surprised that everyone seems to now enjoy the Munster way

You keep saying Munster lads don't take naturally to it, and don't pretty much like it but have to keep praising it to get on the team??  You keep telling us it's a gameplan for brainless idiots who can't think for themselves?

PS- and you're the only Munster fan who admits they don't like the Munster way....

Munster games were never as boring as the Italian game.

My point is that everyone seemed to think that Ireland would become 'the best passing team in the Universe'. Thats not going to happen because it looks like they have been commanded not to pass the ball under any circumstances.

And you know I never said that I don't like the Munster Way. Ya just can't beat a good maul as far as I'm concerned! I'm more worried for those who have been brought up the "Leinster Way'. Must be very hard viewing.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:The way this thread has decented into the usual tripe is why people don't come on to this site and participate in discussion as much any more. Sad times.

Any sign of the team announcement?

bandwagon, I honestly think they've all gone for many more reasons than simply Sin and us boys trying to fill the cavernous black spaces of 606 with at least some chat.

Indeed, I think they might have all gone because the place was moderated to death in the first place - with pretty harmless jokes being classed as vile, sectarianist, racist, sexist, homophobic, anti-anti fur campaigning, shoot the whale, dangerous sordid drivel!

I think the place became too much like a strict and boring Christian Brothers school actually.  But of course, opinions will differ on that one.

Sin é wrote: I'm more worried for those who have been brought up the "Leinster Way'. Must be very hard viewing.

It can be, Sin. It has its moments of 'hard viewing' - yes - but then again, you share that opinion with some of us Leinster lads who wished the Munster lads would hurry up and get tuned into the 'Leinster way' more quickly so that we can have some 'Leinster Way' Irish rugby.

You've already admitted you can't wait for that day.

kunu wrote:Cave was never THAT promising- and you know it. Average. With Murray it's impossible to tell who he credits more, so we'll leave it there - he credits Joe for part of his development, and he has continued to improve massively following the Lions tour, and played very well for Ireland. As much as he could be trying to flatter Joe, he could equally just be being nice to Rob Howley & Others because he's sound - no point in speculating.

As for Sexton, it's clear Joe has had a hand in his development, its undeniable.

Cave was very promising as a youngster. Think he had a bad injury that affected his pace/accelleration which is what he is lacking.

I mentioned Cave because he was the one who said to the media 'that his face didn't fit.'

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote: I'm more worried for those who have been brought up the "Leinster Way'. Must be very hard viewing.

It can be, Sin.  It has its moments of 'hard viewing' - yes - but then again, you share that opinion with some of us Leinster lads who wished the Munster lads would hurry up and get tuned into the 'Leinster way' more quickly so that we can have some 'Leinster Way' Irish rugby.

You've already admitted you can't wait for that day.

Its mainly Leinster with POC, Murray, POM & Zebo - POC would be the only one who would not be considered to be a good passer of the ball. In fact POM is very good for a forward. He'd make a better job at centre with regard to passing than the present encumbents.

Best is fit!

Boss is on the bench

15 Rob Kearney
14 Tommy Bowe
13 Jared Payne
12 Robbie Henshaw
11 Simon Zebo
10 Johnny Sexton
9 Conor Murray

1 Jack McGrath
2 Rory Best
3 Mike Ross
4 Devin Toner
5 Paul O'Connell (c)
6 Peter O'Mahony
7 Sean O'Brien
8 Jamie Heaslip

16 Sean Cronin, 17 Cian Healy, 18 Martin Moore, 19 Iain Henderson, 20 Jordi Murphy, 21 Isaac Boss, 22 Ian Madigan, 23 Felix Jones

Boss - hmm.
And Jones?

Serious team.

France have a huge team. Presumably that is why Boss is in. Id rather him tackling DeBatty in the last 10 minutes that Reddan or Marmion.

Munster, Leinster, Connacht, Ulster side by side in a backline - wonder how often that has happened under previous coaches?

Breaking News:

Joe just said "the players have a licence to play....."

Thank God for that.

Pot Hale wrote:Munster, Leinster, Connacht, Ulster side by side in a backline - wonder how often that has happened under previous coaches?

Don't you start!

SecretFly wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:Munster, Leinster, Connacht, Ulster side by side in a backline - wonder how often that has happened under previous coaches?

Don't you start!

Err, was that a contentious thing to ask?

Gotta feel for Fitz with Jones covering the bench. Schmidt doesn't rate him as anything other then a winger.

Pot Hale wrote:Boss - hmm.
And Jones?  

Keatley & TOD shafted

Fair play to Schmidt for getting two kiwi players into an Ireland 23.

PredictorofTeams wrote:Gotta feel for Fitz with Jones covering the bench. Schmidt doesn't rate him as anything other then a winger.

That is not true. Luke Fitz is on record as saying that the reason why he didn't move to Munster at the time was because Joe Schmidt promised to help him to convert to 13.

PredictorofTeams wrote:Gotta feel for Fitz with Jones covering the bench. Schmidt doesn't rate him as anything other then a winger.

Lets face it, Fitz is very over rated by the fans. He is well down the pecking order.

Sin é wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:Boss - hmm.
And Jones?  

Keatley & TOD shafted  

Fair play to Schmidt for getting two kiwi players into an Ireland 23.

What's the difference through -between two Kiwis versus one Kiwi and an Aussie (Court). They both still go into the one bush I'd have thought?

Sin é wrote:

PredictorofTeams wrote:Gotta feel for Fitz with Jones covering the bench. Schmidt doesn't rate him as anything other then a winger.

That is not true. Luke Fitz is on record as saying that the reason why he didn't move to Munster at the time was because Joe Schmidt promised to help him to convert to 13.

So Fitz stayed at Leinster for Schmidt even though Schmidt was leaving for Ireland.

How many players is that that felt they were nodded and winked for the 13 shirt? Are we sure all these players weren't looking into a Magic Mirror?

Pot Hale wrote:Munster, Leinster, Connacht, Ulster side by side in a backline - wonder how often that has happened under previous coaches?

It was always Munster, Leinster, Ulster, Connacht and Exiles from the old days- well we have a homegrown player from each province and, er, an 'exile' in the outside backs. Or at least someone who was born overseas.

It takes a lot of imagination to see Keatley as having been shafted- he had a pretty poor game, especially in the first half. He's still in with a shot at the World Cup and he would never have been picked to start a 6N game by the vast majority of fans even with Sexton and Jackson injured so he must be happy enough, albeit disappointed he didn't do more to keep the jersey.

O'Donnell is unlucky but the bench is about utility. Henderson and Murphy between them have the experience of starting from 4-8.

PredictorofTeams wrote:

Sin é wrote:

PredictorofTeams wrote:Gotta feel for Fitz with Jones covering the bench. Schmidt doesn't rate him as anything other then a winger.

That is not true. Luke Fitz is on record as saying that the reason why he didn't move to Munster at the time was because Joe Schmidt promised to help him to convert to 13.

So Fitz stayed at Leinster for Schmidt even though Schmidt was leaving for Ireland.

In his own words:

thescore.ie wrote:“There would have been a big opportunity for me [Luke] in second centre which was another incentive, but ultimately it was Joe that influenced me. The turning point was Joe giving me time and we decided that my future lay here (Leinster) and how he would coach me into that change of position. Joe is a great coach and communicator and has had a big influence on me."

While admitting that it was a blow to some degree when Schmidt decided to take the Irish post at a time when he was changing his game and developing certain aspects of his game, he has been more than impressed by Matt O’Connor, who is helping to take his game onto a new level.''

http://www.joe.ie/sport/joe-talks-to-luke-fitzgerald-about-the-all-blacks-how-he-nearly-joined-munster-and-his-future-in-the-13-jersey/389775

Sin é wrote:

thescore.ie wrote: he has been more than impressed by Matt O’Connor, who is helping to take his game onto a new level.''

Something else we can look forward to then, because we can hardly look back for proof of it yet.

If Schmidt had Payne, Henshaw, Cave and Earls in his Leinster squad would he have wanted Fitzgerald to transition though? It tells us nothing about how he sees Fitzgerald now.

GunsGerms wrote:

PredictorofTeams wrote:Gotta feel for Fitz with Jones covering the bench. Schmidt doesn't rate him as anything other then a winger.

Lets face it, Fitz is very over rated by the fans. He is well down the pecking order.

As a centre yes, a winger no. Only winger who was able to beat someone one on one while also having the physically and defence to match.

Notch wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:Munster, Leinster, Connacht, Ulster side by side in a backline - wonder how often that has happened under previous coaches?

It was always Munster, Leinster, Ulster, Connacht and Exiles from the old days- well we have a homegrown player from each province and, er, an 'exile' in the outside backs. Or at least someone who was born overseas.

It takes a lot of imagination to see Keatley as having been shafted- he had a pretty poor game, especially in the first half. He's still in with a shot at the World Cup and he would never have been picked to start a 6N game by the vast majority of fans even with Sexton and Jackson injured so he must be happy enough, albeit disappointed he didn't do more to keep the jersey.

O'Donnell is unlucky but the bench is about utility. Henderson and Murphy between them have the experience of starting from 4-8.

Keatley put in a far better performance against Italy than Madigan did against the Saxons and his cameo against Italy. Italy were all over Ireland for the last 10 minutes. Madigan is very poor at closing out a game.

That utility stuff is nonsense. Between POM & SOB, the back row is well covered.

PredictorofTeams wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

PredictorofTeams wrote:Gotta feel for Fitz with Jones covering the bench. Schmidt doesn't rate him as anything other then a winger.

Lets face it, Fitz is very over rated by the fans. He is well down the pecking order.

As a centre yes, a winger no. Only winger who was able to beat someone one on one while also having the physically and defence to match.  

Only winger? I don't think so.

Fitz would be better in the centre. He is good in tight spaces. His try tally as a winger though is appalling.

edit: why Jones makes the squad. He is good at this:
http://gfycat.com/ScientificEveryIcelandicsheepdog

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:Munster, Leinster, Connacht, Ulster side by side in a backline - wonder how often that has happened under previous coaches?

It was always Munster, Leinster, Ulster, Connacht and Exiles from the old days- well we have a homegrown player from each province and, er, an 'exile' in the outside backs. Or at least someone who was born overseas.

It takes a lot of imagination to see Keatley as having been shafted- he had a pretty poor game, especially in the first half. He's still in with a shot at the World Cup and he would never have been picked to start a 6N game by the vast majority of fans even with Sexton and Jackson injured so he must be happy enough, albeit disappointed he didn't do more to keep the jersey.

O'Donnell is unlucky but the bench is about utility. Henderson and Murphy between them have the experience of starting from 4-8.

Keatley put in a far better performance against Italy than Madigan did against the Saxons and his cameo against Italy. Italy were all over Ireland for the last 10 minutes. Madigan is very poor at closing out a game.

That utility stuff is nonsense. Between POM & SOB, the back row is well covered.

He's not on the bench to close out a game, he's on the bench to open it up and because he covers the centre positions more effectively. And you don't want to have to unnecessarily re-jig the back row during the game if you don't have to. Letting O'Brien and O'Mahony focus exclusively on flanker means less time spent preparing for a positional change in the week before.

2 tries in 28 tests. Fitz might be able to beat the odd guy but more often then not he beats himself too by doing something stupid and blows the chance.

GunsGerms wrote:2 tries in 28 tests. Fitz might be able to beat the odd guy but more often then not he beats himself too by doing something stupid and blows the chance.

You really should try watching him play sometime,all your criticisms of him are outdated.He's still got a long way to go but he's nowhere near as bad as you make out and he's not that far down the pecking order as he's staying in the training camp as injury cover so he's the next back outside back in line.

Notch wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:Munster, Leinster, Connacht, Ulster side by side in a backline - wonder how often that has happened under previous coaches?

It was always Munster, Leinster, Ulster, Connacht and Exiles from the old days- well we have a homegrown player from each province and, er, an 'exile' in the outside backs. Or at least someone who was born overseas.

It takes a lot of imagination to see Keatley as having been shafted- he had a pretty poor game, especially in the first half. He's still in with a shot at the World Cup and he would never have been picked to start a 6N game by the vast majority of fans even with Sexton and Jackson injured so he must be happy enough, albeit disappointed he didn't do more to keep the jersey.

O'Donnell is unlucky but the bench is about utility. Henderson and Murphy between them have the experience of starting from 4-8.

Keatley put in a far better performance against Italy than Madigan did against the Saxons and his cameo against Italy. Italy were all over Ireland for the last 10 minutes. Madigan is very poor at closing out a game.

That utility stuff is nonsense. Between POM & SOB, the back row is well covered.

He's not on the bench to close out a game, he's on the bench to open it up and because he covers the centre positions more effectively. And you don't want to have to unnecessarily re-jig the back row during the game if you don't have to. Letting O'Brien and O'Mahony focus exclusively on flanker means less time spent preparing for a positional change in the week before.

You seriously think that Madigan will open up a game that Sexton hasn't managed to in a position that Madigan has hardly played in this year? He was Poopie against the Saxons.

POM is very versatile. You can put him anywhere.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:2 tries in 28 tests. Fitz might be able to beat the odd guy but more often then not he beats himself too by doing something stupid and blows the chance.

You really should try watching him play sometime,all your criticisms of his are outdated.He's still got a long way to go but he's nowhere near as bad as you make out and he's not that far down the pecking order as he's staying in the training camp as injury cover so he's the next back outside back in line.

Sure of course I watch him Im a Leinster fan. I have never been a Fitz fan. Sum of all his parts simply dont equal an international class player.

Notch wrote:If Schmidt had Payne, Henshaw, Cave and Earls in his Leinster squad would he have wanted Fitzgerald to transition though? It tells us nothing about how he sees Fitzgerald now.

I doubt any coach would promise something like that to a player if they didn't think they were up to it.

Cave isn't in the picture.

Masterclass of intentionally missing the point going on here.

GunsGerms wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:2 tries in 28 tests. Fitz might be able to beat the odd guy but more often then not he beats himself too by doing something stupid and blows the chance.

You really should try watching him play sometime,all your criticisms of his are outdated.He's still got a long way to go but he's nowhere near as bad as you make out and he's not that far down the pecking order as he's staying in the training camp as injury cover so he's the next back outside back in line.

Sure of course I watch him Im a Leinster fan. I have never been a Fitz fan. Sum of all his parts simply dont equal an international class player.

So why do you still criticise him for faults that haven't been evident in his game since 2011.

because I don't look a gift horse in the mouth. He consistently disappoints or completely implodes when given a chance at international level.

GunsGerms wrote:because I don't look a gift horse in the mouth. He consistently disappoints or completely implodes when given a chance at international level.

Again your criticisms are over 3 years outdated,he hasn't had a chance at international level in years due to injury,the last game I can remember him playing for Ireland was against NZ where he was very solid after replacing BoD around the 55 minute mark.

edit:What is the bolded supposed to mean?If you didn't look a gift horse in the mouth you would just be glad to see Fitz back playing and wouldn't be questioning his value to the team.