Ireland V France

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IRELAND v FRANCE
14 February 2015
KO: 17:00
Aviva Stadium, Dublin

Referee: Wayne Barnes (RFU)
AR1: Nigel Owens (WRU)
AR2: Stuart Berry (SARU)
TMO: Graham Hughes (RFU)

IRELAND

15 Rob Kearney
14 Tommy Bowe
13 Jared Payne
12 Robbie Henshaw
11 Simon Zebo
10 Johnny Sexton
9 Conor Murray

1 Jack McGrath
2 Rory Best
3 Mike Ross
4 Devin Toner
5 Paul O'Connell (c)
6 Peter O'Mahony
7 Sean O'Brien
8 Jamie Heaslip

16 Sean Cronin, 17 Cian Healy, 18 Martin Moore, 19 Iain Henderson, 20 Jordi Murphy, 21 Isaac Boss, 22 Ian Madigan, 23 Felix Jones

FRANCE

15 Scott Spedding
14 Yoann Huget
13 Mathieu Bastareaud
12 Wesley Fofana
11 Teddy Thomas
10 Camille Lopez
9 Rory Kockott

1 Eddy Ben Arous
2 Guilhem Guirado
3 Rabah Slimani
4 Pascal Papé
5 Yoann Maestri
6 Thierry Dusautoir (c)
7 Bernard Le Roux
8 Damien Chouly

16 Benjamin Kayser, 17 Uini Atonio, 18 Vincent Debaty, 19 Romain Taofifenua, 20 Loann Goujon, 21 Morgan Parra, 22 Rémi Talès, 23 Rémi Lamerat

*****
This is an interesting battle, and very much a case of brains v brawn.
French flair is long gone, they now rely on the likes of Bastareaud and their pack of overweight lumps to get over the line.
Ireland are very much a team of robots, Joe gives instructions on how to dismantle a team like IKEA gives instructions on how to make a cupboard. With the right personnel in Sexton, SOB and the likes of Heaslip at the helm, they should be able to devour the French fatties like they're the last square of a Kinder Bueno.
All logic points to an Irish victory, but as so often happens the French defy logic.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:because I don't look a gift horse in the mouth. He consistently disappoints or completely implodes when given a chance at international level.

Again your criticisms are over 3 years outdated,he hasn't had a chance at international level in years due to injury,the last game I can remember him playing for Ireland was against NZ where he was very solid after replacing BoD around the 55 minute mark.

Why would you place any stock in someone that is constantly injured? He had a chance v the Saxons and he cried off again with a flu. If you were out sick in your job all the time would you expect to get promoted?

GunsGerms wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:because I don't look a gift horse in the mouth. He consistently disappoints or completely implodes when given a chance at international level.

Again your criticisms are over 3 years outdated,he hasn't had a chance at international level in years due to injury,the last game I can remember him playing for Ireland was against NZ where he was very solid after replacing BoD around the 55 minute mark.

Why would you place any stock in someone that is constantly injured? He had a chance v the Saxons and he cried off again with a flu. If you were out sick in your job all the time would you expect to get promoted?

That's avoiding my point completely but I'll answer your question.No of course I wouldn't expect to get promoted if I was constantly out sick,however my job is not a high performance one where I place my body at risk every time I go to work.I can (and do) phone it if I don't feel like working particularly hard on a given day and being the very best I could be at my job would get me very minimal reward for the effort it would involve.

Sportsmen don't operate in the same employment system as us,they push themselves to the absolute limit and their job is a lifestyle,they don't get to switch off at 5 o'clock and go on the lash for the weekend.If the coach thinks Fitz is the job then he'll get a chance and his injury record won't come into it.Schmidt obviously rates him or he wouldn't have him staying with the squad as injury cover.

If he rated him why isnt he on the bench at least?

GunsGerms wrote:If he rated him why isnt he on the bench at least?

#

Again avoid addressing my point ,are you honestly suggesting that Schmidt only rates the players who are in the squad.Two players he picked to start last week aren't in the squad yet going by that logic Schmidt must have picked players he doesn't rate to play against Italy.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:If he rated him why isnt he on the bench at least?

#

Again avoid addressing my point ,are you honestly suggesting that Schmidt only rates the players who are in the squad.Two players he picked to start last week aren't in the squad yet going by that logic Schmidt must have picked players he doesn't rate to play against Italy.

No Im not but he doesnt rate him highly enough to pick him for 6 nations match day squads. I would be in agreement with him on that.

Well I'm sure he rates TOD.

We're getting away from ourselves here a little.  There are three more games after the French, and then the end of the club season, and then a good few more Internationals (more than I'd like and more than most 6N are having) and then there is the WC.

The players Schmidt 'trusts' now to play against France won't necessarily be always the ones chosen, and therefore I'm sure all of the players in the squad are deemed able to follow orders and do a job if required.

This French game is a job for the players chosen.  

In our arguments we seem to kick and scream to return to the assigned TOP Team of FIRST CHOICERS when we all spent years claiming we were really looking for a Real Squad.  How hard it is to change the habits of a lifetime

Surely it is obvious why Boss and Jones are in the squad - they must be already penciled in for the 30-man RWC gig.
Boss - very much third choice, but knows Sexton and Madigan. Offers experience and a bit of utility elsewhere and Joe knows exactly what he can get from him.
Jones - First reserve to Kearney, and Joe rates his leadership.

The same reasoning might work against O'Donnell because he isn't a first choice starter when everyone is fit. Therefore to make the 30 man squad he has to offer utility. Murphy does that, arguably so do Ruddock and Henry - so it is likely that Joe will pick two from that three and this is his opportunity to test the theory.
It doesn't matter that POM or SOB can play across the backrow, because they are the starters in their best positions. Joe wouldn't want to be forced into two changes for one injury if he could avoid it.

Keatley is probably in a similar circumstance to TOD. He isn't a starter and doesn't offer utility whereas Madigan (supposedly) does. Joe needs a utility 10/12/15 bench man in the Autumn - and it was really only between Madigan and Olding (who has probably now been ruled out).
OTOH if Sexton were to be injured before or during the RWC, it would probably be either Keatley or Jackson called up to start ahead of Madigan.

GunsGerms wrote:

PredictorofTeams wrote:Gotta feel for Fitz with Jones covering the bench. Schmidt doesn't rate him as anything other then a winger.

Lets face it, Fitz is very over rated by the fans. He is well down the pecking order.

Thats not true guns...I'm a fan and don't rate him at all.

Decent team - 50 nil to Ireland.

#injoewetrust

Right enough of the hogswaggle and my guy shoulda, woulda, coulda jibber jabber. What do the changes actually mean for the gameplan?
With the extra bulk and power of O'Brien and Heaslip in the pack and the retention of Boss over Reddan on the bench it suggests that we will look to contain France on their own ball rather than try to stretch them on ours. This seems to be the Joe blueprint. Absorb all that the opposition can throw at us and look to force mistakes and penalty opportunities by making them go through countless phases. Have Sexton kick for position and look to use the maul close in or get Bowe contesting high balls down Teddy Thomas' throat.
if we do that, I would expect us to win another fairly dour arm wrestle. With the return of sexton I I would expect a little more creativity at 10, 12, 13. Possibly a wrap around looking to isolate Bastereau who doesn't change direction too smartly. Maybe a chip or two over the top of him when he lines up on the left with Thomas outside.
In the pack but I think we will see a bit more offloading with possibly Best/Cronin feinting a short hit up from a ruck, acting as the pivot and finding Kearney and Zebo coming in from the left against the grain.
I know it's France and it feels strange being confident of a win but I am. Only worry is how all the returning injured players bodies/brains stand up to a test match intensity. I expect an injury or two. Especially with the monsters France have to bring off the bench.

Submachine wrote:Right enough of the hogswaggle and my guy shoulda, woulda, coulda jibber jabber. What do the changes actually mean for the gameplan?

Well two things stick in my mind here. One is that Joe had the home and away approach at Leinster - at home try and keep the ball in hand and score tries, away pick a more physical team to defend.

The other is the assertion that teams kick a lot more in international rugby,because of the flat defences and the fact we've gone with a specialist 15 on the bench, and the approach under Joe so far had been to kick a lot.

I think we'll use a similar game plan to last year and against Italy - aim to tire the big French pack out by kicking in behind in the first half, then up the pace in the 3rd quarter and use our superior (perceived) fitness and bench.

Everyone is saying we'll win for a lot of good reasons, so I'm reasonably confident. But we have players lacking game time out there and the French are very big and very powerful. If momentum swings their way for a decent period or some of our untried lads pull up injured or run out of steam, I hope we all know it could all go jubblies up despite the form. The French used to have habit blasting out of the blocks against us and the game being effectively over at half time. Hopefully those days are gone.

I have no doubt Schmidt will have pinpointed all their weaknesses and the Irish will at least be in the positions to exploit them. It's down to whether they execute better than against the Italians. And if they defend well when the French get momentum.

But we will have to weather a storm early on going on past experience. And the French bench looks pretty strong. Hopefully we can inflict the damage in the middle two quarters before the French cavalry arrives in the fourth. Really looking forward to it. They're nearly always great games. And if we lose, there's no gloating French people on 606v2 to put up with.

The Great Aukster wrote:
Jones - First reserve to Kearney, and Joe rates his leadership.

Now that makes sense to me. Yes, Henshaw/Payne/Zebo/POM/Madigan can play full back. However, Jones trains and plays there all week for Munster. If Kearney picks up a long term injury then we could do with a specialist slotting in. Simple squad building. For all we know Kearney may have a niggle at the moment..

As for the TOD versus Murphy row...say TOD is on the bench and Heaslip goes down - SOB 6. TOD 7. POM 8. A complete reshuffle versus a straight swap.

rodders wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

PredictorofTeams wrote:Gotta feel for Fitz with Jones covering the bench. Schmidt doesn't rate him as anything other then a winger.

Lets face it, Fitz is very over rated by the fans. He is well down the pecking order.

Thats not true guns...I'm a fan and don't rate him at all.

Decent team - 50 nil to Ireland.

#injoewetrust

Nice to know Im not the only one however, you dont rate many of the Irish players right?

The Great Aukster wrote:Surely it is obvious why Boss and Jones are in the squad - they must be already penciled in for the 30-man RWC gig.
Boss - very much third choice, but knows Sexton and Madigan. Offers experience and a bit of utility elsewhere and Joe knows exactly what he can get from him.
Jones - First reserve to Kearney, and Joe rates his leadership.

The same reasoning might work against O'Donnell because he isn't a first choice starter when everyone is fit. Therefore to make the 30 man squad he has to offer utility. Murphy does that, arguably so do Ruddock and Henry - so it is likely that Joe will pick two from that three and this is his opportunity to test the theory.
It doesn't matter that POM or SOB can play across the backrow, because they are the starters in their best positions. Joe wouldn't want to be forced into two changes for one injury if he could avoid it.

Keatley is probably in a similar circumstance to TOD. He isn't a starter and doesn't offer utility whereas Madigan (supposedly) does. Joe needs a utility 10/12/15 bench man in the Autumn - and it was really only between Madigan and Olding (who has probably now been ruled out).
OTOH if Sexton were to be injured before or during the RWC, it would probably be either Keatley or Jackson called up to start ahead of Madigan.

Boss was selected because he is a big strong guy. Schmidt always selected him when we played away in France because when massive guys like Vincent DeBatty are pounding your line it is better to have Boss than Reddan or Marmion guarding the line. Lets face it, if we win it will probably be because we held on in the last quarter. Thats how it usually goes v France.

I feel that TOD has been harshly done by, he had an excellent game last week when called in late. Having both SOB and Heaslip is a bit of a risk for me that could go wrong.

Still do not see what Boss brings to this Irish side, especially now that Sexton is back. Would have preferred to see Redden or Marmion ahead of him.

To me it looks like its going to be a very robotic and tight Irish performance and against the French, it could be a dangerous tactic to take.

Very happy to see Parra not starting for France as if he was starting, France may have had the edge.

There's a lot for Ireland to be optimistic about.

Their golden child - Sexton is back.

Even though they were quite ponderous in attack vs Italy, Ireland comfortably beat Italy without having to get out of first gear. Okay they only scored against 14 and 13 men respectively but Ireland continued to pour on the pressure and Italy eventually cracked.

As a neutral it looked like Ireland were always in control, just lacking a bit of creativity at times and having Sexton back is significant.

If that backrow is fit and firing it's very good indeed, big if I guess.


The French is contrast failed to score a try vs Scotland. Their big men were kept in check by Scotland. On occasions Scotland tore through the French defence which should give Ireland optimism. Scotland just lacked control at times, the Irish certainly do have control and can put multiple phases together.

I think Ireland will win. This French team didn't look anything special against Scotland.

Scotland are still hurting from not picking their best and most versatile backrower....

Josh Strauss hasn't qualified yet beshocked

Nachos Jones wrote:I feel that TOD has been harshly done by, he had an excellent game last week when called in late. Having both SOB and Heaslip is a bit of a risk for me that could go wrong.

Still do not see what Boss brings to this Irish side, especially now that Sexton is back. Would have preferred to see Redden or Marmion ahead of him.

To me it looks like its going to be a very robotic and tight Irish performance and against the French, it could be a dangerous tactic to take.

Very happy to see Parra not starting for France as if he was starting, France may have had the edge.

SOB and Heaslip are surely two guys that Schmidt will want in his WC squad. If it was a normal year TOD may have been retained as he played well. Id rather SOB and Heaslip had a 6N behind them going into the WC. Id also prefer Chris Henry as back up at the WC if he is fit.

Would expect Ireland should win this by 10 points plus.

GunsGerms,

SOB coming back from injury and getting injured in the warm up last week but starting this week is to me a big risk to take from Schmidt. Granted, I am not privy as to how he has been performing in training but my instincts tell me this is a risky move. TOD slotted in perfectly last week and performed very well in what I consider to have been a pretty dire performance from Ireland.

I just feel that starting both Heaslip and SOB over an inform TOD is a gamble that has a high potential to go wrong. Sure, get one of them in and give them a run but not both. TOD is a very good player and has the potential to be as good as either SOB or Heaslip but he also needs to have some faith shown in him. Simply by removing him from the match day squad to accommodate the return of these two (after performing very well) is a poor decision from Schmidt in my opinion.

Nachos Jones wrote:GunsGerms,

SOB coming back from injury and getting injured in the warm up last week but starting this week is to me a big risk to take from Schmidt. Granted, I am not privy as to how he has been performing in training but my instincts tell me this is a risky move. TOD slotted in perfectly last week and performed very well in what I consider to have been a pretty dire performance from Ireland.

I just feel that starting both Heaslip and SOB over an inform TOD is a gamble that has a high potential to go wrong. Sure, get one of them in and give them a run but not both. TOD is a very good player and has the potential to be as good as either SOB or Heaslip but he also needs to have some faith shown in him. Simply by removing him from the match day squad to accommodate the return of these two (after performing very well) is a poor decision from Schmidt in my opinion.

I agree that TOD as the man in possession and coming off the back of a good performance should retain the jersey. Heaslip coming in after a shoulder niggle isn't as big an issue for me. He has been playing regularly and is a step up from Murphy on recent form.
The same cannot be said of SOB over O'Donnell with only 50 minutes of game time after 6 months out from major surgery, a deep tissue infection and a suspect hamstring.
On paper, as in if both players strengths were listed side by side on a top trumps card, SOB would have the edge in many but not all areas. TOD is quicker around the park. Makes tackles further from the ruck and puts halfbacks under more pressure. SOB is a more destructive ball carrier, makes more offensive tackles and makes more turnovers.
But that's assuming both are fully match fit and firing on all cylinders when we can only definitely say that about TOD. I think Schmitds remarks in the Autumn are telling in this selection. He'll generally go for a good big'un before a good little'un. TOD just needs to up his daily intake of cake.

I assume that Schmidt wouldn't start them if there was a risk. SOB's hamstring strain prior to the Italy game was a very minor strain and he was only withdrawn as a precaution as far as I know. I don't know what the story with Heaslip is but I wouldn't be worried about him given that he is probably the most indestructible player I can ever recall playing for Ireland.

Maybe it is a risk but you could also argue that starting TOD is a risk given that he has never started such a high profile game in his international career to date. The match v Italy was only his third start for Ireland the other two games Canada and Georgia. France is a massive step up on those sides so it is fair to say he is untested in such big games.

Interestingly TOD has in his 7 caps for Ireland never been on the losing side.

It was harsh that TOD didn't make the bench but Murphy and Henderson cover more positions.

Didn't realise that until the Italy game Murray had only scored two tries for Ireland in 32 games but he had never scored in the 6 nations in 13 matches.

Yet interestingly his two previous tries both came against NZ. Good time to score.

I hope the inclusion of Sexton, SOB & Heislip is not Denis O'Brien looking for some bang for his buck! It gets a bit boring on Newstalk and not good for the image if your three sponsored players can only talk about injury.

That versatility excuse is just that - an excuse.

By the way, did anyone hear BOD saying on Newstalk that Hendeson is very poor on learning his 'detail' (ie, not robotic enough   ) so that is why he isn't starting instead of Toner.

Yes I heard BOD saying he needs to learn the lineout calls a lot better. I would have thought that would be a minimum requirement for someone in his position.

Sin é wrote:I hope the inclusion of Sexton, SOB & Heislip is not Denis O'Brien looking for some bang for his buck! It gets a bit boring on Newstalk and not good for the image if your three sponsored players can only talk about injury.

That versatility excuse is just that - an excuse.

By the way, did anyone hear BOD saying on Newstalk that Hendeson is very poor on learning his 'detail' (ie, not robotic enough   ) so that is why he isn't starting instead of Toner.

I see you are a devotee of the prophets David Icke and Jim Corr. Will you pay your water charges Sin?

Submachine wrote:

Sin é wrote:I hope the inclusion of Sexton, SOB & Heislip is not Denis O'Brien looking for some bang for his buck! It gets a bit boring on Newstalk and not good for the image if your three sponsored players can only talk about injury.

That versatility excuse is just that - an excuse.

By the way, did anyone hear BOD saying on Newstalk that Hendeson is very poor on learning his 'detail' (ie, not robotic enough   ) so that is why he isn't starting instead of Toner.

I see you are a devotee of the prophets David Icke and Jim Corr. Will you pay your water charges Sin?

the latest and great conspiracy is Denis O'Brien is telling Schmidt what players to pick. Hang on was it actually Denis O'Brien who lead ireland to the six nations last year???

GunsGerms wrote:
Maybe it is a risk but you could also argue that starting TOD is a risk given that he has never started such a high profile game in his international career to date. The match v Italy was only his third start for Ireland the other two games Canada and Georgia. France is a massive step up on those sides so it is fair to say he is untested in such big games.

It is a step up, undoubtedly but one I feel TOD is more than ready for. He played very well against Italy and has deserved a start or at the least, a place on the bench.

Not so concerned about Heaslip but SOB is a major concern. Getting players back into International rugby after so long out and not being able to A: Get through a full wolfhounds match and B: break down before the Italy match just one week ago only to be selected over a player that stepped up and performed well is simply too big a gamble to me.

It sends out the wrong signal to TOD if I may be honest. The guy can play out of his skin, be the more inform player (injury free) and still get cast aside.

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:

Submachine wrote:

Sin é wrote:I hope the inclusion of Sexton, SOB & Heislip is not Denis O'Brien looking for some bang for his buck! It gets a bit boring on Newstalk and not good for the image if your three sponsored players can only talk about injury.

That versatility excuse is just that - an excuse.

By the way, did anyone hear BOD saying on Newstalk that Hendeson is very poor on learning his 'detail' (ie, not robotic enough   ) so that is why he isn't starting instead of Toner.

I see you are a devotee of the prophets David Icke and Jim Corr. Will you pay your water charges Sin?

the latest and great conspiracy is Denis O'Brien is telling Schmidt what players to pick. Hang on was it actually Denis O'Brien who lead ireland to the six nations last year???

So a Munsterman was really responsible for it,that would make sense in Sín é's world.

Submachine wrote:

Sin é wrote:I hope the inclusion of Sexton, SOB & Heislip is not Denis O'Brien looking for some bang for his buck! It gets a bit boring on Newstalk and not good for the image if your three sponsored players can only talk about injury.

That versatility excuse is just that - an excuse.

By the way, did anyone hear BOD saying on Newstalk that Hendeson is very poor on learning his 'detail' (ie, not robotic enough   ) so that is why he isn't starting instead of Toner.

I see you are a devotee of the prophets David Icke and Jim Corr. Will you pay your water charges Sin?

What a bizarre comment.

You really think the IRFU are not conscious of their sponsors and giving them every opportunity to get publicity. I suppose you thought all those posters of BOD's farewell by O2 and the likes were because they just wanted to wish him well?

Edit: I can't remember who the sponsor was, but prior to the last world cup a poster campaign with Luke Fitz, David Wallace & Tomas O'Leary was dropped for some reason or other (maybe you will figure that one out)!

BOD did say he'd speak his mind when he left the circus and when/if he did any punditry.

And I'm all for pundits talking honestly, without the 'yeah, no, in all fairness' noncommittal rubbish you can hear on the networks.

BUT.......... is BOD actually involved in camp work in recent weeks?  How would he know what Henderson might be doing on the 'detail' front of an area of the game BOD wouldn't be all that keyed into?

Because he remembers it from when he was training and the gossip that was circulating?
Because he was in dressing rooms when Henderson was getting a tongue lashing from fellow forwards or coaches?
Or...because current forwards or coaches are feeding him gossip from present day camp - and he's speading some of the 'what gets said in the dressing room stays in the dressing room' secrets?

And didn't he criticise another Ireland player recently?  Em, can't remember the one - was it Madigan?

I don't mind opinions on overall team play, overall team tactics etc... I don't even mind criticising a specific player for specific errors in a given game - but is BOD using his exalted position in Irish Rugby to attempt to influence the choice of players on the team based on genralised over-views of their abilities?

I wouldn't like to think that might be a hidden agenda of his, but it seems he's concentrating on the idea of certain players not being simply 'up to it' rather than keeping it to specific faults in individual games.

Sin é wrote:
Edit: I can't remember who the sponsor was, but prior to the last world cup a poster campaign with Luke Fitz, David Wallace & Tomas O'Leary was dropped for some reason or other (maybe you will figure that one out)!

Too many Munster men in two or not enough Leinster men in one?

Stop this nonsense Sin. Tell us why - now! Stop leaving the punchline hanging, you know I love your conspiracy theories.

Engine#4 wrote:As for the TOD versus Murphy row...say TOD is on the bench and Heaslip goes down - SOB 6. TOD 7. POM 8.  A complete reshuffle versus a straight swap.

That is the exact truth, but you have to realise that we are operating with a sort of reverse Occams Razor principle- the most logical explanation is just an excuse to mask a cover up for a grander conspiracy against Munster.

If O'Donnell was brilliant, then I could understand it. People are saying he played out of his skin etc. He was alright, but the exaggeration does nobody any favours. He was a solid 6 or 7 out of 10. Okay but nowhere near indispensable.

The one major thing we lacked was gainline success in the forwards. It's nothing against O'Donnell to bring in a player who is a better carrier ahead of him and it's just common sense to have the more versatile replacement on the bench. Storm in a tea cup.

Sin é wrote:

Submachine wrote:

Sin é wrote:I hope the inclusion of Sexton, SOB & Heislip is not Denis O'Brien looking for some bang for his buck! It gets a bit boring on Newstalk and not good for the image if your three sponsored players can only talk about injury.

That versatility excuse is just that - an excuse.

By the way, did anyone hear BOD saying on Newstalk that Hendeson is very poor on learning his 'detail' (ie, not robotic enough   ) so that is why he isn't starting instead of Toner.

I see you are a devotee of the prophets David Icke and Jim Corr. Will you pay your water charges Sin?

What a bizarre comment.

You really think the IRFU are not conscious of their sponsors and giving them every opportunity to get publicity. I suppose you thought all those posters of BOD's farewell by O2 and the likes were because they just wanted to wish him well?

Edit: I can't remember who the sponsor was, but prior to the last world cup a poster campaign with Luke Fitz, David Wallace & Tomas O'Leary was dropped for some reason or other (maybe you will figure that one out)!

Bizarre? OK it was meant to be a humerous response to a humerous post that you made. You even included a smiley face so we'd know it was a joke like. Seems as though you have put a bit o though into this one so perhaps you could enlighten me a little. Are you suggesting that Sexton, O'Brien and Heaslip are all brand ambassadors for Denis O'Brien inc? That their inclusion in matchday squads will somehow generate income/goodwill toward him? I'm assuming he contributes in some way toward central contracts for these players? I honestly have no idea about that.

[quote] You really think the IRFU are not conscious of their sponsors and giving them every opportunity to get publicity. I suppose you thought all those posters of BOD's farewell by O2 and the likes were because they just wanted to wish him well? [quote]

How does this benefit sponsors? Do you not think that any player who was guaranteed his place in the team, was a world record caps holder and had a definite end date to their international careers would be made a bit of a fuss over? If Hayes or ROG had given notice to quit and been guaranteed selection until that date, they would have had a bit of a hooha made about them too.

[quote] Edit: I can't remember who the sponsor was, but prior to the last world cup a poster campaign with Luke Fitz, David Wallace & Tomas O'Leary was dropped for some reason or other (maybe you will figure that one out)![quote]
Possibly it had come to the end of its campaign? Poster advertising is a costly business and usually has a finite shelf life. Would probably have lost it's impact by now being so close to the next world cup.

Nachos Jones wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:
Maybe it is a risk but you could also argue that starting TOD is a risk given that he has never started such a high profile game in his international career to date. The match v Italy was only his third start for Ireland the other two games Canada and Georgia. France is a massive step up on those sides so it is fair to say he is untested in such big games.

It is a step up, undoubtedly but one I feel TOD is more than ready for. He played very well against Italy and has deserved a start or at the least, a place on the bench.

Not so concerned about Heaslip but SOB is a major concern. Getting players back into International rugby after so long out and not being able to A: Get through a full wolfhounds match and B: break down before the Italy match just one week ago only to be selected over a player that stepped up and performed well is simply too big a gamble to me.

It sends out the wrong signal to TOD if I may be honest. The guy can play out of his skin, be the more inform player (injury free) and still get cast aside.

You are right it does send a troublesome message to TOD however, I'm guessing it was discussed with him. The thing is though with a world cup in mind we need a ruthless coach to make tough calls based on what he thinks will get the required results rather than based on whose feelings he might hurt.

TOD looked in really good condition physically and played well. Im sure it wont be too long before he features again.

Notch wrote:

Engine#4 wrote:As for the TOD versus Murphy row...say TOD is on the bench and Heaslip goes down - SOB 6. TOD 7. POM 8.  A complete reshuffle versus a straight swap.

That is the exact truth, but you have to realise that we are operating with a sort of reverse Occams Razor principle- the most logical explanation is just an excuse to mask a cover up for a grander conspiracy against Munster.

If O'Donnell was brilliant, then I could understand it. People are saying he played out of his skin etc. He was alright, but the exaggeration does nobody any favours. He was a solid 6 or 7 out of 10. Okay but nowhere near indispensable.

The one major thing we lacked was gainline success in the forwards. It's nothing against O'Donnell to bring in a player who is a better carrier ahead of him and it's just common sense to have the more versatile replacement on the bench. Storm in a tea cup.

What a ridiculous comment to make. Never have I brought up Munster in this, I brought up very sincere concerns over TOD (THE IRISH INTERNATIONAL PLAYER) being dropped from the squad after an very good performance against Italy for a player that has played very little rugby and failed to even make the match day squad last week due to yet another niggle. I am not saying he is indispensable, just that I feel that he is the better option than SOB right now due to the fact that SOB has not played that much rugby.

I am getting really sick of people making accusations against Munster fans in general as I for one thought that I was having an opinion based on the IRISH squad.

If it is coming to this, especially from a MOD (countdown to the 'I may be a MOD but I am a poster first' reaction 5..4..3.....) Is a sad prelude as to where this site is going as it is clearly a comment designed to wind up Munster fans.

GunsGerms wrote:

You are right it does send a troublesome message to TOD however, I'm guessing it was discussed with him. The thing is though with a world cup in mind we need a ruthless coach to make tough calls based on what he thinks will get the required results rather than based on whose feelings he might hurt.

TOD looked in really good condition physically and played well. Im sure it wont be too long before he features again.

I would hope that it was discussed with him but I am also a big believer in building squad strength in depth and I believe that TOD has deserved to get a run in the Irish team, especially if SOB's fitness cannot be guaranteed.

How do you know his fitness cant be guarenteed though? They use fairly sophisticated methods to test players fitness in training. Surely SOB wouldnt be selected if he wasnt hitting the benchmark in training?

I know he hasnt had much game time but he has been back training for a while now.

There is a bench mark in training and there is match fitness. I believe that he is lacking match fitness and feel that he should get 1 or 2 club games before starting for Ireland. TOD is match fit, fully fit and coming off the back of a very good performance against Italy. A fully fit SOB over TOD every day but I just feel that he may struggle with the intensity of France after so long out.

Nachos Jones wrote:

I am getting really sick of people making accusations against Munster fans in general as I for one thought that I was having an opinion based on the IRISH squad.

'Accusations' is a strong word.  I'd prefer to say perhaps toying with the notions of a certain Munster fan and using it as banter ammunition.

You've met Sin of course?  You're not going to tell us that he doesn't like taking an IRELAND chat back to the Provincial barricades whenever he gets an opening? Are you?

No.  Sin knows what side of the bread his butter is on - and plays up to it, and it can be downright entertaining.  But some of us from time to time then like stabbing back...in fun, in banter.

BUT...I think if you go back up the list of comments, you'll find you weren't the first to declare yourself sick of the constant 'accusations'.  I think they first came from one or two 'Leinster' men who are getting rightly sick of Sin's 'Anti-Munster' Schmidtatistic conspiracy theory.

So I guess quite a number of people are taking banter a little too seriously...from both sides perhaps?

Nachos Jones wrote:
What a ridiculous comment to make. Never have I brought up Munster in this, I brought up very sincere concerns over TOD (THE IRISH INTERNATIONAL PLAYER) being dropped from the squad after an very good performance against Italy for a player that has played very little rugby and failed to even make the match day squad last week due to yet another niggle. I am not saying he is indispensable, just that I feel that he is the better option than SOB right now due to the fact that SOB has not played that much rugby.

I am getting really sick of people making accusations against Munster fans in general as I for one thought that I was having an opinion based on the IRISH squad.

If it is coming to this, especially from a MOD (countdown to the 'I may be a MOD but I am a poster first' reaction 5..4..3.....) Is a sad prelude as to where this site is going as it is clearly a comment designed to wind up Munster fans.

I think it was extremely obvious that I was talking about one specific Munster fan and not about you or any other Munster poster in any way, so there's really not anything to say apart from jeez, calm down. I'm not trying to wind anyone up. I'm gently poking fun at one specific persons posts.

Fly, I like the rivalry between the provinces, I really do and I enjoy the banter that goes on with it.

I just feel that Notch has overstepped the mark this time, it was not banter it was an accusation and one specifically designed to get Munster fans wound up and drop this thread when it was actually going well and a reasonable debate was happening.

If you read my comment above you will realise that I was not referring to you or your posts when I said that, but rather to specific posts that were made earlier in the thread. Nor was I fishing for Munster fans.

That comment had nothing to do with you or Munster fans in general.

Notch wrote:

Nachos Jones wrote:
What a ridiculous comment to make. Never have I brought up Munster in this, I brought up very sincere concerns over TOD (THE IRISH INTERNATIONAL PLAYER) being dropped from the squad after an very good performance against Italy for a player that has played very little rugby and failed to even make the match day squad last week due to yet another niggle. I am not saying he is indispensable, just that I feel that he is the better option than SOB right now due to the fact that SOB has not played that much rugby.

I am getting really sick of people making accusations against Munster fans in general as I for one thought that I was having an opinion based on the IRISH squad.

If it is coming to this, especially from a MOD (countdown to the 'I may be a MOD but I am a poster first' reaction 5..4..3.....) Is a sad prelude as to where this site is going as it is clearly a comment designed to wind up Munster fans.

I think it was extremely obvious that I was talking about one specific Munster fan and not about you or any other Munster poster in any way, so there's really not anything to say apart from jeez, calm down. I'm not trying to wind anyone up. I'm gently poking fun at one specific persons posts.

No you were not. No one could be that humourless!

Sin... come on, enough. - Just tell me why that poster was dropped?  You never got round to it.

I have read a few reasons for Boss' inclusion but the one that alarms me the most is that he is there to contain France in the final 15 - 20 mins.

Surely if Ireland were in a position to win the match with 20mins to go the A: Murray would not be subbed off and B: would it not be better to replace him (if required) with a 9 that could get the ball quicker to the backs than Boss?

Poor selection in my opinion.

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:

Nachos Jones wrote:
What a ridiculous comment to make. Never have I brought up Munster in this, I brought up very sincere concerns over TOD (THE IRISH INTERNATIONAL PLAYER) being dropped from the squad after an very good performance against Italy for a player that has played very little rugby and failed to even make the match day squad last week due to yet another niggle. I am not saying he is indispensable, just that I feel that he is the better option than SOB right now due to the fact that SOB has not played that much rugby.

I am getting really sick of people making accusations against Munster fans in general as I for one thought that I was having an opinion based on the IRISH squad.

If it is coming to this, especially from a MOD (countdown to the 'I may be a MOD but I am a poster first' reaction 5..4..3.....) Is a sad prelude as to where this site is going as it is clearly a comment designed to wind up Munster fans.

I think it was extremely obvious that I was talking about one specific Munster fan and not about you or any other Munster poster in any way, so there's really not anything to say apart from jeez, calm down. I'm not trying to wind anyone up. I'm gently poking fun at one specific persons posts.

No you were not. No one could be that humourless!

You are frequently far more humourless than that.

Interesting that TOD is being argued to be ahead of SOB for the starting spot. When in reality he isn't even in front of Jordi for the bench position.

And that doesn't even touch on Henry and Ruddock probably being between Jordi and SOB in the picking order as well (once fit).

Heaslip was fit to start last week but was given an extra weeks rest to be on the safe side of selection for the remainder of the 6Ns. Doesn't seem like it needs to be a rocket scientist to conclude that is a decent coaching decision.

SOB has been long term injured. Got 50 minutes to test out the repaired shoulder in an international 'A' game and came through with flying colours. Has a tight hamstring in warmup last week and Joe takes the decision put in the alternate who seemlessly fits into the plans for the game instead of risking a tight hamstring in game 1 of a five game competition. Again, seems like a decent coaching decision. And a tight hamstring isn't something that puts a player out for more than a day, let alone a week.

TOD will still be around, and if anything happens in the captains run or warmups on the day then he'll be called upon again and will do his job dutifully.


Healy straight onto the bench however! Totally disagree with that. If you sub McGrath off after 50 minutes (or if he goes down injured after 10 minutes god forbid) then you are hoping a player with zero minutes will step up until the final whistle. He shouldn't be in the squad. He should be starting for Leinster against Dragons on Sunday for 60 minutes and we should have a different LH option on the bench. I don't like that selection by Joe.

Notch wrote:If you read my comment above you will realise that I was not referring to you or your posts when I said that, but rather to specific posts that were made earlier in the thread. Nor was I fishing for Munster fans.

That comment had nothing to do with you or Munster fans in general.

Come on everyone knows Munster fans love a good conspiracy theory.

Nachos Jones wrote:I have read a few reasons for Boss' inclusion but the one that alarms me the most is that he is there to contain France in the final 15 - 20 mins.

Surely if Ireland were in a position to win the match with 20mins to go the A: Murray would not be subbed off and B: would it not be better to replace him (if required) with a 9 that could get the ball quicker to the backs than Boss?

Poor selection in my opinion.

Fully agree. Boss will inject pace for 4 minutes of play once he sprints onto the field.... then he'll revert to type with short pop passes to pods of forwards running round the edge. Marmion, the kid McGrath, Stringer and even Reddan would be better options than Boss.