Ireland v England - Match Thread

[GunsGerms]

First topic message reminder :

I know I am two weeks early but Ireland v England on Sunday 1st March will possibly be the 6 nations decider as both teams are the only two teams still undefeated in the 6 nations so far this year.

There are many different angles, plots and sub plots to this game. Here are some of the many things at stake:

Reaburn Shield:

Ireland have held it for 4 consecutive games having defeated previous holders SA in November.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raeburn_Shield

3rd place in rankings:



Triple Crown:

Only Ireland and England can still win this trophy and with due respect to Scotland and Wales who Ireland have yet to play to win it would be some achievement this year.

Grand Slam:

Only Ireland and England and win the slam.

6 nations title:
Obviously France and Wales are still in the running with only one loss but the bookies have Ireland and England as favorites at this point.

Millennium Trophy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Trophy

Eye on the WC:
The earliest Ireland and England could possibly meet at the WC is the Semi finals if they both win their pools and their quarter finals or both come runner up and win their quarters. Either way I think other fixtures such England v Wales and Ireland v France were more important for each nations WC preparations.

Ireland need one more win to tie their record of 10 sucessive wins.

Head to head record:
Overall: England 74 wins Ireland 46 wins
6Nations: England 7 wins Ireland 8 wins

Who is going to win and why?
http://www.espn.co.uk/six-nations-2015/rugby/story/256583.html
Phil Vickery predicts an England win.

Teams:

England:

Ireland:

[yappysnap]

Does POM still run around the field, looking like he's suffering from roid rage and about to pull someone's arms off and beat them to death with them?

I don't watch Munster as I can't stand Sky covering them, but every time I've watched him for Ireland he looks like a loose cannon.

[doctor_grey]

doctor grey can't argue with that.

Still can't understand how the pundits could give Ford man of the match against Wales. I would have given him 7/10, there were others like Watson,Robshaw and Haskell who I thought had better games.

secretfly Italy have suffered because they've taken on the two strongest sides first - we'll see what they do against the others. I think Italy would fancy their chances against Scotland in particular at the moment.

Agree with Ford receiving the Man of the Match award against Wales. Haskell and Robshaw were dominant, Georgie was decent. Big difference. Georgie did keep things moving behind a pack which was moving. And he did have a few runs. Anything extraordinary in the match at all? No. Good? Oh yes.

In the back of my mind, I was afraid the Cippy-lovers would be out in force afterwards. Good thing they stayed indoors.

[SecretFly]

Does POM still run around the field, looking like he's suffering from roid rage and about to pull someone's arms off and beat them to death with them?

I don't watch Munster as I can't stand Sky covering them, but every time I've watched him for Ireland he looks like a loose cannon.

That's the way we like 'im. Don't feed him for a week, show him videos of puppies being mistreated by their owners (he loves puppies) - intersperse that footage with some subliminal clips of English (Welsh, SA etc) players... and he's primed to go to war.

[LondonTiger]

Does POM still run around the field, looking like he's suffering from roid rage and about to pull someone's arms off and beat them to death with them?

I don't watch Munster as I can't stand Sky covering them, but every time I've watched him for Ireland he looks like a loose cannon.

That's the way we like 'im.  Don't feed him for a week, show him videos of puppies being mistreated by their owners (he loves puppies) - intersperse that footage with some subliminal clips of English (Welsh, SA etc) players... and he's primed to go to war.

Deep fried, barbecued or motorboating?

[SecretFly]

fresh uncooked roadkill flavour.

[Cyril]

fresh uncooked roadkill flavour.

Careful, Fly. You've just revealed the new Tayto range

[GunsGerms]

Does POM still run around the field, looking like he's suffering from roid rage and about to pull someone's arms off and beat them to death with them?

I don't watch Munster as I can't stand Sky covering them, but every time I've watched him for Ireland he looks like a loose cannon.

He motors around red-faced for the whole game with a perminantly peed off look on his face.



Very good player though.

[SecretFly]

fresh uncooked roadkill flavour.

Careful, Fly. You've just revealed the new Tayto range

.... I know. I've tasted them. And to be honest, I'm not gone on the salty blood taste. Maybe it's an acquired taste but I think they'll need heavy marketing to sell these mammas.

Mexican drug-cartel-run shanty towns might be their best shot.

[SecretFly]

Does POM still run around the field, looking like he's suffering from roid rage and about to pull someone's arms off and beat them to death with them?

I don't watch Munster as I can't stand Sky covering them, but every time I've watched him for Ireland he looks like a loose cannon.

He motors around red-faced for the whole game with a perminantly peed off look on his face.

But you would go to war with him.


.......................behind him.

.................about a half a mile behind him...........

................ he would attract a bunch of snipers with all his tank eating and loud'n' raw Munster cursing.

[Nachos Jones]

Wow, you guys are brilliant. A Munsterfan makes a general comment on the Irish side and is accused of provincial bias and yet a comment about Robshaw can develop into POM getting some stick...

For the record, POM is not a grumpy man, just very competitive. Off the field he is a great lad and a cracking laugh.

[Nachos Jones]

But you would go to war with him.


.......................behind him.

.................about a half a mile behind him...........

................ he would attract a bunch of snipers with all his tank eating and loud'n' raw Munster cursing.

Snipers don't bother him, he is a proper culchie with an armoury of bog surrounding his skin that stops bullets

[beshocked]

Doctor grey you mention Cippers.

Did anyone else notice that Cipriani didn't seem to want be on the field vs Italy? - he looked annoyed in my opinion when he scored his try.

If Cipriani could ever back to the form he was in when he demolished Ireland at Twickenham..... his one good game for England which showed so much promise.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaN7zB8ktu8

[lostinwales]

Well Cips seems to have got ever so humble in his old age. All the stuff he says now is very positive.

[funnyExiledScot]

Doctor grey you mention Cippers.

Did anyone else notice that Cipriani didn't seem to want be on the field vs Italy? - he looked annoyed in my opinion when he scored his try.

If Cipriani could ever back to the form he was in when he demolished Ireland at Twickenham..... his one good game for England which showed so much promise.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaN7zB8ktu8

My take was that he's trying to show Lancaster and the world that he's grown up a bit. If it's angry about anything it should probably be that he's failed to maximise his huge talent - he should/could have had a bucket more Twickenham appearances.

Still, England are now in a good place at 10. I think Ford is fixed as first choice for the 6 Nations/World Cup, and you have a maverick alternative like Cipriani (if you're looking for an impact sub to ready shake things up) and solid options like Farrell and Myler (if you're looking to close things out). Between those four England have a handy set to choose from.

Regarding Cipriani again, it's pleasing that he's extended his stay at Sale. Good for him to have some stability to enable him to just focus on his rugby.

[Nachos Jones]

I have always rated Cipriani, I think that he is a brilliant player with an excellent understanding of whats happening around him. I am really happy to see him back.

His supporting line for his try against Italy was perfect.

I feel a fit Farrell still wont be good enough to oust Ford if he keeps his form up but until Farrell Snr is removed from the coaching set up, he will always be number 1 when fit and its sad because he really limits Englands style.

[funnyExiledScot]

I have always rated Cipriani, I think that he is a brilliant player with an excellent understanding of whats happening around him. I am really happy to see him back.

His supporting line for his try against Italy was perfect.

I feel a fit Farrell still wont be good enough to oust Ford if he keeps his form up but until Farrell Snr is removed from the coaching set up, he will always be number 1 when fit and its sad because he really limits Englands style.

I don't agree with that, and I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that England will omit Ford for Farrell when he's back and fully fit. Ford is a newer kid on the block and what we've yet to see is how he reacts to a poor run of form. Farrell has gone through that dip this season but let's not forget some of his more combative performances for England where his goal kicking and tackling have saved the day.

My hunch is, taking all things into account, that Ford is the pick of the bunch. His coolness in putting players into space sets him apart, and whilst his running ball in hand suffers in comparison to Cipriani, and his goal kicking/physicality suffers in comparison to Farrell, I think with the players around him Ford is the best. But, and it's an important point, form should prevail and it's perfectly possible that either of Cipriani or Farrell, with a decent run of form, could win the jersey back.

[GunsGerms]

Does POM still run around the field, looking like he's suffering from roid rage and about to pull someone's arms off and beat them to death with them?

I don't watch Munster as I can't stand Sky covering them, but every time I've watched him for Ireland he looks like a loose cannon.

He motors around red-faced for the whole game with a perminantly peed off look on his face.

But you would go to war with him.


.......................behind him.

.................about a half a mile behind him...........

................ he would attract a bunch of snipers with all his tank eating and loud'n' raw Munster cursing.

Ah you definitely would alright. Id say most of his enemies would probably just want to make him a cup of tea or something rather than urine him off even more.

[Nachos Jones]

I have always rated Cipriani, I think that he is a brilliant player with an excellent understanding of whats happening around him. I am really happy to see him back.

His supporting line for his try against Italy was perfect.

I feel a fit Farrell still wont be good enough to oust Ford if he keeps his form up but until Farrell Snr is removed from the coaching set up, he will always be number 1 when fit and its sad because he really limits Englands style.

I don't agree with that, and I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that England will omit Ford for Farrell when he's back and fully fit. Ford is a newer kid on the block and what we've yet to see is how he reacts to a poor run of form. Farrell has gone through that dip this season but let's not forget some of his more combative performances for England where his goal kicking and tackling have saved the day.

My hunch is, taking all things into account, that Ford is the pick of the bunch. His coolness in putting players into space sets him apart, and whilst his running ball in hand suffers in comparison to Cipriani, and his goal kicking/physicality suffers in comparison to Farrell, I think with the players around him Ford is the best. But, and it's an important point, form should prevail and it's perfectly possible that either of Cipriani or Farrell, with a decent run of form, could win the jersey back.

That's why I said if Ford keeps his form I cant see Farrell ousting him but that the influence of his father has seems to keep Farrell as the incumbent when fit, not matter what form he is in. Ford (and Cipriani) are the perfect fit for Bombers direction of attractive back play behind a very strong and dominant England pack. They simply look so much better playing without Farrell than with him. Ford and Cips, have the ability to capitalise behind a strong forward pack than Farrell does. Farrell is way too slow and 1 dimensional in my opinion.

[SecretFly]

Wow, you guys are brilliant. A Munsterfan makes a general comment on the Irish side and is accused of provincial bias and yet a comment about Robshaw can develop into POM getting some stick...

For the record, POM is not a grumpy man, just very competitive. Off the field he is a great lad and a cracking laugh.

I wouldn't say alluding to POM as a mad war animal is stick, Nachos.  We need more of them, not less of him.  Yes, the robotic 'detail' is required too - but sometimes the extra ingredient often needed and perhaps a little missing in the modern 'systems' game is a smidgin of raw passion and firey emotional steel.

[lostinwales]

Ford has always been a possibility for no.1. But he is much smaller than Farrell and its a question of developing the physicality for international rugby. Farrell was there from day one, and was very durable, where as Ford was also getting injured at the wrong time.

Farrell has been pants for a while but overall he gets more abuse than he deserves

[Nachos Jones]

Wow, you guys are brilliant. A Munsterfan makes a general comment on the Irish side and is accused of provincial bias and yet a comment about Robshaw can develop into POM getting some stick...

For the record, POM is not a grumpy man, just very competitive. Off the field he is a great lad and a cracking laugh.

I wouldn't say alluding to POM as a mad war animal is stick, Nachos.  We need more of them, not less of him.  Yes, the robotic 'detail' is required too - but sometimes the extra ingredient often needed and perhaps a little missing in the modern 'systems' game is a smidgin of raw passion and firey emotional steel.

I was more referring to rodders comment Fly

POM is not the mad man people portray him to be, he is actually a very clever rugby player. He had that ability to be a loose cannon back in the day but he has an excellent controlled aggression. A natural leader in the pack. POC cant sing his praises enough and that's a huge compliment to him.

[Nachos Jones]

Ford has always been a possibility for no.1. But he is much smaller than Farrell and its a question of developing the physicality for international rugby. Farrell was there from day one, and was very durable, where as Ford was also getting injured at the wrong time.

Farrell has been pants for a while but overall he gets more abuse than he deserves

Don't get me wrong, I am not abusing Farrell, far from it. I feel he is a very very good 10 but just does not seem to fit the England mould of now. 10 years ago, he would have been pushing Wilkinson all the way because I feel his style is more suited to the older England team than the current one.

[SecretFly]

POM is not the mad man people portray him to be, he is actually a very clever rugby player. He had that ability to be a loose cannon back in the day but he has an excellent controlled aggression. A natural leader in the pack. POC cant sing his praises enough and that's a huge compliment to him.

Yeah.  That's what I was saying.  He has both though, when required.  The 'detail', the discipline - but then if a game needs it he can have the inner rage to push through.  Similar to POC himself. POC always says it's trying to get the balance right - the balance between knowing your 'detail' and homework, keeping to the systems but not allowing the emotion to be turned off and using it when required.

[Poorfour]

That's why I said if Ford keeps his form I cant see Farrell ousting him but that the influence of his father has seems to keep Farrell as the incumbent when fit, not matter what form he is in. Ford (and Cipriani) are the perfect fit for Bombers direction of attractive back play behind a very strong and dominant England pack. They simply look so much better playing without Farrell than with him. Ford and Cips, have the ability to capitalise behind a strong forward pack than Farrell does. Farrell is way too slow and 1 dimensional in my opinion.

I think you're reading far too much into that. Lancaster doesn't chop and change lightly, especially in the back line where injury has made it very difficult to keep a consistent squad or build up the required experience. Farrell was one point of consistency in a backline where you didn't know from series to series which centres would be fit and which scrum half would be in form. It made sense to stick with him.

They persisted too long in playing him in the AIs when he really was struggling for form - but it would have been a huge call to give Ford a first start against the ABs.

Assuming Ford continues to play well, I'd be very surprised if he is not the FH who starts at the RWC. I'd expect Youngs/Ford to start and Care/Farrell to bench, because that gives two different styles of play and the option to change the game.

[Nachos Jones]

POM is not the mad man people portray him to be, he is actually a very clever rugby player. He had that ability to be a loose cannon back in the day but he has an excellent controlled aggression. A natural leader in the pack. POC cant sing his praises enough and that's a huge compliment to him.

Yeah.  That's what I was saying.  He has both though, when required.  The 'detail', the discipline - but then if a game needs it he can have the inner rage to push through.  Similar to POC himself. POC always says it's trying to get the balance right - the balance between knowing your 'detail' and homework, keeping to the systems but not allowing the emotion to be turned off and using it when required.

People would be very surprised at just how much 'homework' POM does. He spends large amounts of time studying the opposition and has a very big impact with organising plays within Munster. He will make a hell of a coach when he retires, of that I am sure.

[Nachos Jones]

That's why I said if Ford keeps his form I cant see Farrell ousting him but that the influence of his father has seems to keep Farrell as the incumbent when fit, not matter what form he is in. Ford (and Cipriani) are the perfect fit for Bombers direction of attractive back play behind a very strong and dominant England pack. They simply look so much better playing without Farrell than with him. Ford and Cips, have the ability to capitalise behind a strong forward pack than Farrell does. Farrell is way too slow and 1 dimensional in my opinion.

I think you're reading far too much into that. Lancaster doesn't chop and change lightly, especially in the back line where injury has made it very difficult to keep a consistent squad or build up the required experience. Farrell was one point of consistency in a backline where you didn't know from series to series which centres would be fit and which scrum half would be in form. It made sense to stick with him.

They persisted too long in playing him in the AIs when he really was struggling for form - but it would have been a huge call to give Ford a first start against the ABs.

Assuming Ford continues to play well, I'd be very surprised if he is not the FH who starts at the RWC. I'd expect Youngs/Ford to start and Care/Farrell to bench, because that gives two different styles of play and the option to change the game.

There is a partnership that has work but mainly due to Care playing 9 and 10. Care was the one calling the lines for Burrell to run whilst Farrell just stood deep. Farrell is a very good defender and kicker (although that's dropping off somewhat) but is not really an attacking 10. He is a very safety first 10. With this England backline behind a very strong pack gaining momentum, England need a very dynamic 10 and they have that with Ford and Cips.

[yappysnap]

Care/Farrell puts too much pressure on Care to create everything in attack. He can do that when he knows he's got a quick and dangerous 10 to help him (Nev) or when he's at his very best, but otherwise it's just too difficult.

[beshocked]

Nacho Jones I feel that in this case you are being overly harsh on Farrell Jr.

Farrell Jr had a decent 6 nations last year.


Should have never started in the AIs though.

Ford vs Farrell is currently an unfair comparison - because Farrell is injured and hasn't played well for almost a year, Ford is the man in possession of the 10 shirt and is in form.

We can measure Farrell Jr only when he rediscovers his form.

Ford is deservedly ahead but Farrell Jr hasn't done a bad job for England IMO.

Ford's current stock is sky high, Farrell Jr's is rock bottom but this could all change in a few months.

[SecretFly]

Ford's current stock is sky high, Farrell Jr's is rock bottom but this could all change in a few months.

Tactically, the rest of us would require that change to be rock bottom stock for both of them come the WC

Sorry for the bluntness!  But biz is biz .....

[Nachos Jones]

beshocked,

I don't believe that I am being overly harsh on Farrell. As I said earlier and also said by yappysnap, it was Care playing out of his skin last 6N that made Farrell look better than he actually was/is. Care was playing two roles, 9 and 10 in order to get the England moving.

As I have also previously said, I believe that Farrell is a very good player but simply does not work in this current English set up and game plan. This is not being harsh on him, just what I feel and see.
England simply look better and more threatening without Farrell at 10 right now.

[yappysnap]

Does POM still run around the field, looking like he's suffering from roid rage and about to pull someone's arms off and beat them to death with them?

I don't watch Munster as I can't stand Sky covering them, but every time I've watched him for Ireland he looks like a loose cannon.

He motors around red-faced for the whole game with a perminantly peed off look on his face.



Very good player though.

He reminds me a bit of Water Boy. Like just before the game he's told the opposition team all drink Gatorade...

[yappysnap]

beshocked,

I don't believe that I am being overly harsh on Farrell. As I said earlier and also said by yappysnap, it was Care playing out of his skin last 6N that made Farrell look better than he actually was/is. Care was playing two roles, 9 and 10 in order to get the England moving.

As I have also previously said, I believe that Farrell is a very good player but simply does not work in this current English set up and game plan. This is not being harsh on him, just what I feel and see.
England simply look better and more threatening without Farrell at 10 right now.

Totally right.

This then gave Farrell the time to choose when/if he wanted the ball and the luxury of only making a play when he wanted to.

[beshocked]

Nacho Jones I think it's certainly overly harsh to say Farrell only looked good because of Care.

Rugby is a team sport - Farrell did his bit effectively in a backline. He complimented Care well.

Farrell was involved in the demolition of NZ and Scotland - both without Care.

Where is Care now? Oh that's right he's failing in a floundering Quins side - perhaps if he had an in form Farrell next to him he would be in better form himself.

[Nachos Jones]

beshocked,

I actually said that Care playing out of his skin and two positions, 9 and 10, made Farrell look better. Not look good only because of Care but better than he did because of Care.

As I have said repeatably, Farrell is a good 10 but just does not seem to suit the game plan of this current England team.

I see nothing harsh in that observation?

[Sin é]

POM is very highly rated in France. Jono Gibbs told some Munsterfan recently that they have tried everything to get him to Clermont (including asking him to name his own price), but he won't leave Munster - so he is loyal as well.

He has moved on from Frankie being his agent as well - Horizon (the crowd that got 20-25million? from Rory McIlroy for breach of contract) are now his agents. Expect some big sponsorships coming up for him there.

edit: he also has only 3 YCs in his career to date (in four seasons).

[beshocked]

Nacho Jones you think Care's form was just down to him?

you say Farrell doesn't suit the gameplan. I disagree. Rugby is all about balance - you can change to make things work. England can adapt their game and use a variety of players which them a more unpredictable team.

Wales just have Gatlandball which is predictable. England can throw numerous players in their team to give a completely different look.

I don't think putting in an in form Farrell at 10 would suddenly lead to a break down in the England attack personally but we would only know if it happened.

Farrell Jr was not in form in the AIs - he should have never been playing.


England have many players that can work but it's all about balance. Also England can adapt - that is something that Ireland will have to be wary of - even if England start slowly they know it's not the end of the world.

[lostinwales]

There was an interview with Ben Youngs the other weekend (think it was the Independent). One of the things that came out of it was that he said that England had worked out on the pitch what to do vs Wales rather than having to work it out at half time.

It is a little thing, but it is a sign that, finally, we are starting to develop a decent leadership team around Robshaw.

[geoff999rugby]

Leadership on the pitch is key

Interesting that Schmidt reckons he has 5 leaders on the pitch - Best, POC, Heaslip, Sexton, Kearney.

[LondonTiger]

There was an interview with Ben Youngs the other weekend (think it was the Independent). One of the things that came out of it was that he said that England had worked out on the pitch what to do vs Wales rather than having to work it out at half time.

It is a little thing, but it is a sign that, finally, we are starting to develop a decent leadership team around Robshaw.

Marler, Hartley, Haskell, Youngs and 36 all club captains.

[GunsGerms]

There was an interview with Ben Youngs the other weekend (think it was the Independent). One of the things that came out of it was that he said that England had worked out on the pitch what to do vs Wales rather than having to work it out at half time.

It is a little thing, but it is a sign that, finally, we are starting to develop a decent leadership team around Robshaw.

Marler, Hartley, Haskell, Youngs and 36 all club captains.

None of them really jump off the page as outstanding leaders.

[GunsGerms]

Leadership on the pitch is key

Interesting that Schmidt reckons he has 5 leaders on the pitch - Best, POC, Heaslip, Sexton, Kearney.

One leader for each unit. Makes sense.

[Marshes]

So excited for this game.

My main concern for Ireland will be the loss of Heaslip to the backrow, I thought against Italy they just didn't have the familiarity needed and against the English pack Ireland would need their most consistent and balanced trio available. Murphy and TOD did OK against Italy, but I'm worried England may be a bridge too far for them. Would love to be proved wrong. IMO Henderson would be the more appropriate option at 6 and switch POM to 8, he brings a fantastic threat as ball-carrier and is really abrasive at the breakdown, which will be a feckin warzone.

I'm also a little worried that the scrum has flattered to deceive in parts and we have never really had the upper hand. England's front row are in good form, and I've not been convinced by Mike Ross. Hoping Healy back makes a difference

Although I think Mike Brown out could also be telling for England but still not sure if he will be missing.

[BamBam]

There was an interview with Ben Youngs the other weekend (think it was the Independent). One of the things that came out of it was that he said that England had worked out on the pitch what to do vs Wales rather than having to work it out at half time.

It is a little thing, but it is a sign that, finally, we are starting to develop a decent leadership team around Robshaw.

Marler, Hartley, Haskell, Youngs and 36 all club captains.

None of them really jump off the page as outstanding leaders.

In what sense? I would agree with you on 36, and jury is still out on Marler as a captain, but the other 3 have all captained at the highest level of the European club game (and yes I know Hartley has brainfarts, Haskell is thick etc), their club teammates seem to be happy enough and quality coaches like Mallinder, Young and Cockerill all seem to think they're best suited for it at their clubs, and there's not a lack of options either.

That's not forgetting Tom Wood, who was effectively vice captain when playing

[Poorfour]

Marshes - it's also worth noting that Marler knows Ross very well from their time together at Quins, and has tended to go well against him in the past. He's beginning to emerge from the shadow of Corbs this 6N and be recognised as a serious loosehead in his own right. It's going to be a real battle.

[LondonTiger]

Sure 36 and Marler have questions over their captaincy ability. However that they were entrusted with the job suggests that at least two Irishmen view them as leadership material.

[GunsGerms]

In what sense? I would agree with you on 36, and jury is still out on Marler as a captain, but the other 3 have all captained at the highest level of the European club game (and yes I know Hartley has brainfarts, Haskell is thick etc), their club teammates seem to be happy enough and quality coaches like Mallinder, Young and Cockerill all seem to think they're best suited for it at their clubs, and there's not a lack of options either.

That's not forgetting Tom Wood, who was effectively vice captain when playing

Well Hartley is a loose cannon so its obvious why he isnt a great leader. Marler seems a bit quiet? I might be wrong. Haskell really strikes me a being completely away with the fairies altogether. I wouldnt trust him to make critical decisions.

Ben Youngs might have it in him. He is certainly a scrappy lad.

Brown, Robshaw, Farrell (if playing if not maybe Youngs) and Cole would be my leaders.

[SecretFly]

Sure 36 and Marler have questions over their captaincy ability. However that they were entrusted with the job suggests that at least two Irishmen view them as leadership material.

God, don't talk to me about Conor O'Shea. He does the punditry stint over here in Ireland for the duration of the Six Nations. And the poor guy doesn't know what seat to sit in. He obviously and 'dutifully' says "Us" when speaking about Ireland - but Boy does he gush like a little kid when the topic of England comes up. Ah me, lads................. and the lad I helped pick too doing it all with them (Lancaster). He doesn't say that but that's the flutter in his eyes.
He tries the 'Come On Ireland' soundbytes (obviously in a more analytical sense than in a flag waving fan sense), but I really think he'd prefer England to get the Slam this year.

[No 7&1/2]

What do you mean by leaders in this context Guns.

[majesticimperialman]

He tries the 'Come On Ireland' soundbytes (obviously in a more analytical sense than in a flag waving fan sense), but I really think he'd prefer England to get the Slam this year.


SO Would I.

[yappysnap]

In what sense? I would agree with you on 36, and jury is still out on Marler as a captain, but the other 3 have all captained at the highest level of the European club game (and yes I know Hartley has brainfarts, Haskell is thick etc), their club teammates seem to be happy enough and quality coaches like Mallinder, Young and Cockerill all seem to think they're best suited for it at their clubs, and there's not a lack of options either.

That's not forgetting Tom Wood, who was effectively vice captain when playing

Well Hartley is a loose cannon so its obvious why he isnt a great leader. Marler seems a bit quiet? I might be wrong. Haskell really strikes me a being completely away with the fairies altogether. I wouldnt trust him to make critical decisions.

Ben Youngs might have it in him. He is certainly a scrappy lad.

Brown, Robshaw, Farrell (if playing if not maybe Youngs) and Cole would be my leaders.

You do love your generalisations don't you?!

I take it you haven't bothered to watch most of those England players your talking about.

Marler is one of the best technical props around, he is very humble and not a loud mouth but that doesn't make him a poor captain. Quins certainly perform better with him.

Haskell is probably the best captain in the league at the moment, the energy he generates for Wasps has been key to them climbing the table and you can tell the players respect him. He also runs his own business, owns his own companies and makes a hell of a lot off the pitch, so I'd suggest he's a lot smarter then people want to think, usually I'd guess because they're jealous.

36 is a puzzle, but for Glos he's a leader, yes he tries too hard at times but at others he's the only one holding their backline together.

The captaincy team for England is now very good. Especially with guys like Easter, Myler and Care around too.

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