Edinburgh V Ulster

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Edinburgh V Ulster

Friday 20th February 2015
KO 19:35
BT Murrayfield
Live on BBC Sport Scotland & BBC Northern Ireland

Referee: Leighton Hodges (WRU, 48th competition game)
Assistant Referees: Sam Grove-White, Mike Adamson (both SRU)
Citing Commissioner: Paul Minto (SRU)
TMO: David Changleng (SRU)

24 Played 24
8 Wins 16
16 Losses 8
0 Draws 0
37 Tries 61
27 Conversions 40
47 Penalties 69
5 Drop Goals 3
395 Points 601
25 Avg. Age 26

Teams

Edinburgh

15 Jack Cuthbert
14 Dougie Fife
13 Sam Beard
12 Phil Burleigh
11 Tim Visser
10 Tom Heathcote
9 Grayson Hart

1 Rory Sutherland
2 Neil Cochrane
3 W P Nel
4 Anton Bresler
5 Ben Toolis
6 Roddy Grant
7 Hamish Watson
8 Mike Coman (captain)

16 Stuart McInally
17 Grant Shiells
18 John Andress
19 Ollie Atkins
20 Hugh Blake
21 A N Other
22 Jade Te Rure
23 Andries Strauss

Ulster

1. Callum Black
2. Rob Herring
3. Wiehahn Herbst
4. Franco van der Merwe
5. Iain Henderson
6. Roger Wilson (c)
7. Mike McComish
8. Nick Williams

9. Ruan Pienaar
10. Ian Humphreys
11. Michael Allen
12. Stuart McCloskey
13. Darren Cave
14. Craig Gilroy
15. Louis Ludik

16. John Andrew
17. Andrew Warwick
18. Bronson Ross
19. Lewis Stevenson
20. Clive Ross
21. Paul Marshall
22. Luke Marshall
23. Peter Nelson

Are heathcote and hilterband still out there doing shuttle runs? If not, they should be! With Sydney Devine being blasted through the PA system at them!

I'm not surprised it was a red to be fair, the game is becoming really soft.

tigertattie wrote:Are heathcote and hilterband still out there doing shuttle runs? If not, they should be! With Sydney Devine being blasted through the PA system at them!

These guys are deservedly getting a lot of flak but Hart was as poor if not worse than them.

VinceWLB wrote:I'm not surprised it was a red to be fair, the game is becoming really soft.

Slightly different take on it - yes unfortunately a red, but the reason the situations occurred was down to slow/inconsistent refereeing. When sevens clamp themselves on the ball like that there is pretty much no way to remove them other than by grabbing them by the neck and twisting them, coming in from the side and lifting which was seen in this case (both of which dangerous). One way to avoid might be a quicker decision from the ref, either he has got into the position legally or he hasn't. I don't want things over reffed, but the main reason for sticking in my two pence was that on a number of occasions during the match (not particularly in favour of one team or the other) I felt frustrated that Hodges wasn't consistent, clear or fast with his decisions around competition at the breakdown - a good few instances where there was legal competition for the ball by guys on their feet and a penalty for holding on should have been given, but he just let it run on until the team in possession managed to eventually clear the man out.

Lifting the player off the ground is not the only way that could be dangerous, his head was not clear off the ground, but he was still totally vertical the weight of a mans body coming down on his neck regardless of whether he is dropped from a height or not is more than enough to break someones neck and leave him paralyzed or worse. All the people claiming that was fairy or whatever maybe you need to have it happen to you where you are lying on a pitch not entirely sure whats going on as people strap you to a backboard and take you to hospital because there could be neck injuries, I can tell you it's not pleasant and it's downright scary. Now that didn't happen in this case because McCloskey ended up putting him beyond the vertical and they guy landed on his back but if Stuart had of lost his grip at vertical the entire weight of the player would come down his neck so it is dangerous and while I don't agree with some of the reffing I think Hodges got that right.

At the time I though definite yellow, and not red because McCloskey did attempt to put him down without dropping him, but can see how it could be interpreted as a red by the ref. I am an advocate of the 'orange' card where the player leaves the game not to return but a sub can come on after 10 minutes. I can see such a system being used a lot by refs as it penalises the offending team more than a yellow but doesn't necessarily ruin the spectacle for everyone who's paid to see a contest with a borderline decision.

The Great Aukster wrote:At the time I though definite yellow, and not red because McCloskey did attempt to put him down without dropping him, but can see how it could be interpreted as a red by the ref. I am an advocate of the 'orange' card where the player leaves the game not to return but a sub can come on after 10 minutes. I can see such a system being used a lot by refs as it penalises the offending team more than a yellow but doesn't necessarily ruin the spectacle for everyone who's paid to see a contest with a borderline decision.

I like the idea and think it would be good but is there a chance it then becomes a kop out for a referee to award it when something really should be a red?

I think that we should have the concept of a brown card.

This should be used where the referee actually thinks that a simple telling-off and a kick on the shins will do, but that they feel under intense pressure from a p!ssed off home crowd to be macho, emotive and reactionary - whereupon they then crumble like a Hob Nob in a wind tunnel and regret it intensely later.

Nematode wrote:Erm, no Pete. 

I thought he had a good game and was consistent to both sides. I'm not normally a huge fan of his reffing, but he was not bad last night.

Yup - I thought he was OK as well.

I have just calmed down enough to think about the game. I don't remember ever seeing that before - 7 mins to go against 13 men with an attacking penalty and not score anything. ARRRGGHHH£$&^* !!! Talk about blowing a game. Who was making the calls?

*Whimpers*

Bad weekend for Edinburgh with Scarlets managing a draw against Munster and connacht winning away to Dragons.

Current standings

Connacht 37
Scarlets 35
Edinburgh 33

Not looking great.

It isn't, but I prefer our run in to Connacht. We need to beat Scarlets away, that is now massive for us.

Looking at the next few match I would say if Scarlets lose to Edinburgh they could be out of it
Connacht next 2 games are Treviso and Cardiff - Both winnable
Edinburgh next 2 games are the same - Both winnable
Scarlets by contrast have Ulster and Leinster - will do well to win 1

Scarlets could be 10 points adrift of one of the other two maybe both
with 4 games to go not sure that is bridgeable - although to be fair they will fancy their last 4 games

I think Edinburgh are going to miss out, and I think it will only be by a couple of wins at most - making us look back at this weekend, the loss away to Zebre and at home to Connacht and ruing our missed opportunity.

RDW_Scotland wrote:I think Edinburgh are going to miss out, and I think it will only be by a couple of wins at most - making us look back at this weekend, the loss away to Zebre and at home to Connacht and ruing our missed opportunity.

In the context of the season that's 5 points gone a begging, although the Connacht defeat at home will probably prove the most costly. Proverbial 8 pointer.

The reverse of my analysis is that if Scarlets are only a few points behind Edinburgh and Connacht, after the next 3 games 6th place is probably in the bag.

Connacht and Edinburgh need to open up a significant gap

Totally agree - the Scarlets have the best run of games at the end of the season and the drier spring conditions usually play to the Scarlets' game plan.

I think Edinburgh will have enough to overhaul Connacht, but my tip is for the Scarlets to take the 6th slot.

Either way the new rules certainly have shaken things up, and although it is likely to be at Edinburgh's expense, it has definitely made games at this time of the year more exciting!

It will be remarkable if Connacht qualify - every Irish team in the top comp, and only one Welsh and Scottish team.

I think Scarlets will get the 6th spot, they don't have the challenge cup as a diversion too. 7th place is important though as it means a playoff versus the 7th in the premiership. Connacht don't impress me much, they should have lost to the Dragons yesterday if the men of Gwent had kept 15 players on the field.

VinceWLB wrote:7th place is important though as it means a playoff versus the 7th in the premiership.

Not this year it doesn't. The English and French managed to wangle it so that this year the playoff is just between those two!

RDW_Scotland wrote:

VinceWLB wrote:7th place is important though as it means a playoff versus the 7th in the premiership.

Not this year it doesn't. The English and French managed to wangle it so that this year the playoff is just between those two!

Crap!!

Not so......

For subsequent seasons, the play-offs for the 20th qualifier will include the following clubs:

• The seventh-ranked club from the Top 14, or the winner of the 2014/15 Challenge Cup if from the Top 14 and not already qualified for the Champions Cup.

• The seventh-ranked club from the Aviva Premiership, or the winner of the 2014/15 Challenge Cup if from the Aviva Premiership and not already qualified for the Champions Cup.

• The eighth-ranked club from the PRO12, or the winner of the 2014/15 Challenge Cup if from the PRO12 and not already qualified for the Champions Cup.

Match 1: Aviva Premiership (seventh-ranked club or Challenge Cup winner from the Aviva Premiership if not already qualified) v PRO12 (eighth-ranked club or Challenge Cup winner from the PRO12 if not already qualified)
Home advantage to be decided by toss of coin
Match 2: winner of Match 1 v Top 14 (seventh-ranked club or Challenge Cup winner from the Top 14 if not already qualified)
Winner of Match 1 will have home advantage

Pro 12 team are a coin toss away from home advantage in match 1 and should they win it are guaranteed home advantage v the French.

As Gloucester or Exeter are the most likely to win the Challenge Cup I would guess that Embra are favourites for that slot with Connacht the next likely barring a Scarlets collapse. (Scarlets look nailed on for sixth place)

Yeah that's from next season is it not? I'm fairly sure this season is a straight shootout between England and France.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Yeah that's from next season is it not? I'm fairly sure this season is a straight shootout between England and France.

Look again. The straight shootout happened last May between Wasps and Stade Francais

Some time back on this thread there was a debate on the size of World Cup squads - it will be 31 according to Whiff of Cordite

"For the 2014/15 season, the 20th qualifier was determined by a play-off over two legs between the clubs ranked seventh in the Aviva Premiership and the Top 14.

For subsequent seasons......."

geoff998rugby wrote:Some time back on this thread there was a debate on the size of World Cup squads - it will be 31 according to Whiff of Cordite

Correct. Fairly sure that last WC there were only 22 man matchday squads. Despite 23 man being common in the NH

So basically Edinburgh do have something to play for in the challenge cup?

So when are we going to fit these 2 matches in, especially if one team has a challenge cup run??

RDW_Scotland wrote:So basically Edinburgh do have something to play for in the challenge cup?

So when are we going to fit these 2 matches in, especially if one team has a challenge cup run??

This is when having depth like Ben Atiga and Nick McLennan will really pay off!

RDW_Scotland wrote:So basically Edinburgh do have something to play for in the challenge cup?

So when are we going to fit these 2 matches in, especially if one team has a challenge cup run??

Late May. By definition any team capable of making these playoffs will have 2 free weekends in May when their league playoffs are on.

Do the playoffs line up between the leagues though?

I think the Pro 12 semis and final are consecutive weekends this season....

Embra have 2 chances of making the Chumps cup next season............

No, really. 1 via 7th in the league and 1 via winning the Challenge cup.

Problem is, will they focus on both and achieve neither? Sensible thing is focus on the league really as it is a better chance. Not cut and dried though as a good cup run can galvanise support and players.

Not sure what the financial implications are either. Probably not a big deal like the champs cup in soccer

RDW_Scotland wrote:Do the playoffs line up between the leagues though?

I think the Pro 12 semis and final are consecutive weekends this season....

Yes. That was the whole point in finishing the Chumps cup in April. So as the French could spend May and early June focusing exclusively on the Top 14.