Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread VII

[George Carlin]

First topic message reminder :

Ye Olde Banter:

https://www.606v2.com/t48240-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread
https://www.606v2.com/t51313-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-ii
https://www.606v2.com/t53119-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-iii
https://www.606v2.com/t54519-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-iv
https://www.606v2.com/t55409-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-v-the-fun-continues
https://www.606v2.com/t56913p950-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-vi-banter-boogaloo

A. Edinburgh
   

1. League Results

Fri 5 Sep: Munster Rugby 13 - 14 Edinburgh Rugby

Fri 12 Sep: Edinburgh Rugby 13 - 14 Connacht Rugby

Sun 21 Sep: Ospreys 62 - 13 Edinburgh Rugby

Fri 26 Sep: Edinburgh Rugby 20 - 20 Scarlets

Fri 3 Oct: Ulster Rugby 30 - 0 Edinburgh Rugby

Sat 11 Oct: Edinburgh Rugby 24 - 10 Newport Gwent Dragons

Fri 31 Oct: Leinster Rugby 33 - 8 Edinburgh Rugby

Sun 23 Nov: Edinburgh Rugby 28 - 13 Cardiff Blues

Sat 29 Nov: Zebre 18 - 10 Edinburgh Rugby

Fri 19 Dec: Edinburgh Rugby 48 - 0 Benetton Treviso

Sat 27 Dec: Glasgow Warriors 16 - 6 Edinburgh Rugby

Fri 2 Jan: Edinburgh Rugby - 20 - 8 Glasgow Warriors

Fri 9 Jan: Connacht Rugby 13 - 16 Edinburgh Rugby

Fri 13 Feb: Edinburgh Rugby 24 - 16 Ospreys

Fri 20 Feb: Edinburgh Rugby 17 - 20 Ulster Rugby

Sun 1 Mar: Cardiff Blues 21 - 15 Edinburgh Rugby

2. European Results

17/10/14: Bordeaux-Begles 13 - 15 Edinburgh Rugby

24/10/14: Edinburgh Rugby 25 - 17 Lyon

7/12/14: Edinburgh Rugby 25 - 13 London Welsh

14/12/14: London Welsh 6 - 24 Edinburgh Rugby

17/01/2015: Lyon 21 - 19 Edinburgh Rugby

23/01/2015: Edinburgh Rugby 38 - 20 Bordeaux-Begles

B. Glasgow


1. League Results

Sat 6 Sep: Glasgow Warriors 22 - 20 Leinster Rugby

Sun 14 Sep: Cardiff Blues 12 - 33 Glasgow Warriors

Sat 20 Sep: Newport Gwent Dragons 13 - 33 Glasgow Warriors

Fri 26 Sep: Glasgow Warriors 39 - 21 Connacht Rugby

Sun 5 Oct: Benetton Treviso 23 - 40 Glasgow Warriors

Sat 11 Oct: Ulster Rugby 29 - 9 Glasgow Warriors

Fri 31 Oct: Glasgow Warriors 17 - 9 Benetton Treviso

Fri 21 Nov: Scarlets 19 - 9 Glasgow Warriors

Sun 30 Nov: Glasgow Warriors 19 - 15 Newport Gwent Dragons

Sat 20 Dec: Glasgow Warriors 21 - 18 Munster Rugby

Sat 27 Dec: Glasgow Warriors 16 - 6 Edinburgh Rugby

Fri 2 Jan: Edinburgh Rugby 20 - 8 Glasgow Warriors

Fri 9 Jan: Glasgow Warriors 22 - 7 Scarlets

Sun 15 Feb: Zebre 10 - 54 Glasgow Warriors

Sat 21 Feb: Glasgow Warriors 19 - 16 Ospreys

Sat 28 Feb: Munster Rugby 22 - 10 Glasgow Warriors

2. European Results

18/10/14: Glasgow Warriors 37 - 10 Bath Rugby

25/10/14: Montpellier 13 - 15 Glasgow Warriors

7/12/14: Toulouse 19 - 11 Glasgow Warriors

13/12/14: Glasgow Warriors 9 - 12 Toulouse

18/01/2015: Glasgow Warriors 21 - 10 Montpellier

25/01/2015: Bath Rugby 20 - 15 Glasgow Warriors

[George Carlin]

I'd rather keep Welsh and lose the Revered to be honest.

And the honest truth is also that either Cusack is fit and able to play or he isn't.

I love Big Mike but you cannot have a squad player who plays one game and then needs 2 months off.

[BigGee]

Bit of a risk going to the Falcons though - they're always likely to be duking it out at the bottom of the table.

If he's got real international aspirations he needs to be aiming higher!

A decent coach now, making some better signings and playing some decent rugby. Not quite the gamble it once was. Newcastle always used to be Scotland's 3rd team. hopefully that might continue.

[VinceWLB]

I actually think Welsh hasn't developed as well as hoped at tighthead, a destructive loosehead he could have been though but as a tighthead he wouldn't be that big of a loss if everything get sorted out with Cusack and the young props coming through well.

Wasn't Murray on a one year deal too? so could be leaving as well.

[BigGee]

It is hard to imagine that Murray will go much past the WC.I am sure that will certainly end his international career. Bearing in mind how inexperienced the two youngsters are at Glasgow you could see him finishing the season, but that is likely to be it.

Welsh has been largely hamstrung by injuries. Given a clear run and plenty game time, something he has not really had, he could still turn out to be the best TH around. He is still relatively young in prop terms!

[George Carlin]

I have to disagree with my boy Vince about Welsh. I think that with one full season without injuries and not being messed about at 1, he will be the best that Scotland has on the tighthead side (even allowing for Willem Nel coming into the mix) and I really think that it's a mistake letting him go. He'll be coming into his pomp as a prop right now.

If we let him go and keep Cusack (who has played about 5 games in 2 years), then that really is madder than a box of hair.

Welsh to Falcons was confirmed this morning, incidentally.

[RDW]

Hall to retire as well, Shade Munro to leave.


Al Kellock player/coach?

[jimbopip]

Yes, big changes at Scotstoun. Welsh to Falcons, Dougie Hall retiring at the end of the season and Shade Munro moving on.
Angela will be a big loss. But perhaps he was frustrated at not getting enough game time? From a Scotland perspective he could use this move to step up and show us what he can do. Or he could do a Moray Low and just fade away.
Dougie Hall has been a great servant to the club, as the cliché has it. He should be proud of his contribution to Glasgow's success and can retire with his head held high.
Is there any truth in the rumour that Shade Munro felt he had to leave because selection meetings with Toonie were just too boring and predictable?

[George Carlin]

Says a lot (some of it worryingly) that in my view Hall is still the best hooker at the club - we are going to really miss his bulk, experience and accurate arrows.

Fraser Brown really needs to make the position his own now, because the future at 2 is not Pat McArthur and at 26, it may well not be Kevin Bryce either.

[Anglobraveheart]

It's just occurred to me.
Toonie's strategy in selection is varied, unpredictable and successful.
Which is pretty much what he was like as a player.
I bet there's never a dull day in the Toonie household!!

[Majestic83]

See I was going to say the opposite. I think with the other hookers glasgow have hall in my view is only fourth choice. With more starts and game time brown will get better and better and become Scotland's first choice. Kev Bryce is a big unit but mobile and does the basics well and just needs more game time too. Fergus scott will is on a full contract now and will look to challenge for game time and has looked pretty good as well.

With shade leaving is there a possibility for him going to become scotland forwards coach?

[RDW]

https://www.606v2.com/t58274-scarlets-v-edinburgh#2974083

[Anglobraveheart]

There could also be a natural progression here with Toonie destined for National duties in 2 to 5 years time, and possibly a Kellock/Lamont or Kellock/Cusiter forwards/backs coaching team developing?

[BigGee]

Shade leaving, particularly without an obvious destination is probably the only real surprise here. He has been a one club man and maybe that counts against him when looking at the possibility of stepping up to a head coach position. Maybe taking over Scotland's forwards after the WC is a possibility as well. We have all been speculating about Big Al moving into a coaching position, well suddenly an opportunity has arisen. What about Kenny Murray though, is coaching forwards his area of expertise. There are a few bits of the puzzle here still to fall into place.

Dougie Hall was always going at the end of this season. That will still leave us with 3 hookers and an EDP, which should be plenty. I am sure he has been planning this move for a while, joining a few of the others in the financial industries sector.

Jon Welsh as well has made a good move, he probably needed a change and a new challenge and was probably not getting enough game time at Glasgow. This move will allow the kids to come through, which will be a good thing for the club and Scottish rugby as well.

[RDW]

Kenny Murray is attack / backs coach is he not? I'm sure I read that somewhere...

[demosthenes]

Shade leaving, particularly without an obvious destination is probably the only real surprise here. He has been a one club man and maybe that counts against him when looking at the possibility of stepping up to a head coach position. Maybe taking over Scotland's forwards after the WC is a possibility as well. We have all been speculating about Big Al moving into a coaching position, well suddenly an opportunity has arisen. What about Kenny Murray though, is coaching forwards his area of expertise. There are a few bits of the puzzle here still to fall into place.

Dougie Hall was always going at the end of this season. That will still leave us with 3 hookers and an EDP, which should be plenty. I am sure he has been planning this move for a while, joining a few of the others in the financial industries sector.

Jon Welsh as well has made a good move, he probably needed a change and a new challenge and was probably not getting enough game time at Glasgow. This move will allow the kids to come through, which will be a good thing for the club and Scottish rugby as well.

I really do hope that Shade is, or has, been offered something else. I don't think that Al Kellock, who makes much of loyalty and Glasgow being a club rather than just a team, would be too happy to be given the chance on the back of a P45 for someone who he has worked with over the last number of years.

[jimbopip]

Yes the fact that Shade Munro does not seem to be moving to another post is enigmatic to say the least.Hopefully the Numpties at HQ have decided he will be the forwards coach with Cotter for the World Cup. Things could only improve.

[George Carlin]

He won't leave his current cushy set up in Brizzle, but I would love Andy Robinson to come back as Glasgow forwards coach.

[VinceWLB]

I have to disagree with my boy Vince about Welsh. I think that with one full season without injuries and not being messed about at 1, he will be the best that Scotland has on the tighthead side (even allowing for Willem Nel coming into the mix) and I really think that it's a mistake letting him go. He'll be coming into his pomp as a prop right now.

If we let him go and keep Cusack (who has played about 5 games in 2 years), then that really is madder than a box of hair.

Welsh to Falcons was confirmed this morning, incidentally.

George, i was trying to stay positive about the prospect of Welsh leaving, after all he has been the best tighthead at the club this season. Now he is gone i'm actually extremely peed about it. The exodus continue.

As for a new forward coach i don't think this is a bad idea as the last couple of season i had always got the feeling the Glasgow's pack doesn't perform as well as the sum of its part and lets be honest front 5 is what has been holding Glasgow back in Europe.

[tigertattie]

All joking aside, things are not looking too good for Glasgow for next season!

It could be a couple of years of "re-building" coming to Scotstoun!

Glasgow have been fortuante with a crop of youngsters who have all come on at the same time! Hopefully the next batch of home grown promising youngsters can be identied pronto!

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Hope the moves at The Warriors are nothing to do with keeping these total incompetent git coaches in a job at Murrayfield

[jimbopip]

Hope the moves at The Warriors are nothing to do with keeping these total incompetent git coaches in a job at Murrayfield

You're too conspiracy theory for me there Schiz. You're not suggesting Munro was sacked so some numpty at Murrayfield can come across and do his job, are you?
Reading Toonie's statement it would seem he has decided that for the next stage in the Warriors evolution they need someone else. For all our joking about the Magic Tombola the Toonster does have a ruthless streak to him. This appointment will be crucial and will go a long way to telling us just how ambitious the Warriors are.
p.s. I'm not applying (yet)

[BigGee]

Yes Toonie does have the air of the baby faced assassin about him when he needs it. Not the first time that he has taken a difficult and controversial decision. All good coaches need that at the end of the day, professional sport is an unforgiving business.

[Heuer27]

Heard from a previously reliable source that Dobson, Johnstone and Cotter are leaving after the WC. Possibly before in some cases. Cotter most likely back to France with Bordeaux the favourites at the moment. Oh and the big Fijian is coming to Glasgow definitely.

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Hurrah !!!!!

[funnyExiledScot]

Heard from a previously reliable source that Dobson, Johnstone and Cotter are leaving after the WC. Possibly before in some cases. Cotter most likely back to France with Bordeaux the favourites at the moment. Oh and the big Fijian is coming to Glasgow definitely.

You are quite the one for scoops this evening. Leaving Scotland after the World Cup would finish Cotter as an international coach. He's achieved zip and should stay and prove himself.

[RDW]

He also reacted pretty angrily when a journalist asked him about it, and reiterated that he was here until the end of his contract (after next 6N)

[Scottish White Line Fever]

Heard from a previously reliable source that Dobson, Johnstone and Cotter are leaving after the WC. Possibly before in some cases. Cotter most likely back to France with Bordeaux the favourites at the moment. Oh and the big Fijian is coming to Glasgow definitely.

You are quite the one for scoops this evening. Leaving Scotland after the World Cup would finish Cotter as an international coach. He's achieved zip and should stay and prove himself.

+1. Can't see VC leaving for another club job, but if he did I imagine he would go for a Super Rugby job to put him in contention for the NZ job when that comes up next, but I can't see why he would leave after 16 months or so when he won't have proven himself at this level. No issues with Johnson leaving. Personally, I think Dobson has done well in the job considering the creation of the academies, the continuing development of Edinburgh and Glasgow, and the BT deal.

[RDW]

Dan MacFarland of Connacht has been lined up as a replacement for Munroe apparently.

[tigertattie]

Heard from a previously reliable source that Dobson, Johnstone and Cotter are leaving after the WC. Possibly before in some cases. Cotter most likely back to France with Bordeaux the favourites at the moment. Oh and the big Fijian is coming to Glasgow definitely.

You are quite the one for scoops this evening. Leaving Scotland after the World Cup would finish Cotter as an international coach. He's achieved zip and should stay and prove himself.

+1. Can't see VC leaving for another club job, but if he did I imagine he would go for a Super Rugby job to put him in contention for the NZ job when that comes up next, but I can't see why he would leave after 16 months or so when he won't have proven himself at this level.  No issues with Johnson leaving. Personally, I think Dobson has done well in the job considering the creation of the academies, the continuing development of Edinburgh and Glasgow, and the BT deal.

where do folk get these rumours from?

Dodson's wife's dog's best pal's cousin?

If Cotter was to leave after the WC, unless Scotland got to the final or something, then his chances of becoming the coach of the blackness would go up in smoke!

Dodson I have no quams with!


If Johnson was away, I'd arrange a street party to celebrate!

But so far these are rumours!

[EWT Spoons]

Heard from a previously reliable source that Dobson, Johnstone and Cotter are leaving after the WC. Possibly before in some cases. Cotter most likely back to France with Bordeaux the favourites at the moment. Oh and the big Fijian is coming to Glasgow definitely.

You are quite the one for scoops this evening. Leaving Scotland after the World Cup would finish Cotter as an international coach. He's achieved zip and should stay and prove himself.

+1. Can't see VC leaving for another club job, but if he did I imagine he would go for a Super Rugby job to put him in contention for the NZ job when that comes up next, but I can't see why he would leave after 16 months or so when he won't have proven himself at this level.  No issues with Johnson leaving. Personally, I think Dobson has done well in the job considering the creation of the academies, the continuing development of Edinburgh and Glasgow, and the BT deal.

where do folk get these rumours from?

Dodson's wife's dog's best pal's cousin?

If Cotter was to leave after the WC, unless Scotland got to the final or something, then his chances of becoming the coach of the blackness would go up in smoke!

Dodson I have no quams with!


If Johnson was away, I'd arrange a street party to celebrate!

But so far these are rumours!

It's true his chances would be massively reduced, but if we have a shocking WC and then another 6 nations spoon, his chances at international level would be pretty much gone for any side. He might be thinking that if there is no improvement at the WC then we're beyond hope and he's jumping ship before we ruin any future career for him.

I hope that's not the case and we're just getting rid of Johnson, and maybe Cuttia and Humphreys

[MacKnocked-on]

Nothing more than rumours I'm sure, can't really believe Cotter wants out so soon. Also the one about him not rating Strauss sounds made up as well, even if that was his view, I can't honestly believe he has said that to anyone in Murrayfield who would then leak that info.

[sensisball]

Bear in mind that Dot Cotton thinks that an unproven new Zealand boy who couldn't secure a contract at the Highlanders was worthy of a spot in a national training camp ahead of John Barclay who has been a pro since 2007, has over 40 caps to his name and has been in fine form for his club.
He is also the man who believes that ickle Greg Laidlaw is the best 9 to stick with a quick Scottish back line and is the best option he has available as captain!
Anything is possible.

[EWT Spoons]

Given Munro is leaving Glasgow, and Edinburgh aren't blessed with a lot of coaches. Wonder if he could end up with us?

[RDW]

Stevie Scott is forwards coach - what we're missing is a backs / attack coach.

[EWT Spoons]

Fair point.

[funnyExiledScot]

Given Munro is leaving Glasgow, and Edinburgh aren't blessed with a lot of coaches.  Wonder if he could end up with us?

He'd have to wash his hands first.

[Weegie Wizard]

Townsend deserves quite a bit of credit here if he brings in someone who helps us make the step up.

Shade was part of the set-up with Lineen who worked for years making us very tough to beat then recently with Toonie made us a real threat but it is important to accept that the area where we have fallen short, particularly in Europe, is in the tight forward play.

It must have been a tough decision to let him go but Toonie obviously thinks Shade has taken the pack as far as he can.

I'm not all that familiar with the coaches at club level in Scotland outside of the Hawks. Does anyone who is reckon that there are options there who could make the step up? Peter Wright was mentioned and he seems like a good option to me although not sure he is that popular with the SRU. Can't think why

[RDW]

Worth pointing out that Stevie Scott seems to be doing a good job at Edinburgh, which almost seems to fly under the radar.

Our scrum has generally been dominant in most games since around November and our lineout is strong.  We are able to retain possession, our problems have been doing something useful with it!

Our defence also used to be rubbish but that has improved recently too.

So basically we're doing well in the areas we have a coach for, bad in those that we don't!

[EWT Spoons]

So basically we're doing well in the areas we have a coach for, bad in those that we don't!

The solution seems so obvious but I just can't put my finger on it.

[TheMildlyFranticLlama]

So basically we're doing well in the areas we have a coach for, bad in those that we don't!

The solution seems so obvious but I just can't put my finger on it.

Play SHC on the wing?

[tigertattie]

So basically we're doing well in the areas we have a coach for, bad in those that we don't!

The solution seems so obvious but I just can't put my finger on it.

Play SHC on the wing?

And visser at 9?

[George Carlin]

So basically we're doing well in the areas we have a coach for, bad in those that we don't!

The solution seems so obvious but I just can't put my finger on it.

Play SHC on the wing?

And visser at 9?

The answer is clearly to put Nel in the centre. It's where he clearly wants to be anyway.

Then we could buy Sean Cronin and have the most heavyweight centre partnership in the league.

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

We need Cronin at 13 outside O'Brien......

[sensisball]

I think its only fair to mention that Cussack, who turned out to be the best forward signed by the club, who gave Glasgow scrum dominance in almost every game he played has been unavailable for the last two seasons. Also  Tom Ryder,  the best ball carrying second row at the club, was out injured and has now released to Northampton.
its very hard to have the same front 5 dominance without these boys available. Also Batman's off-field antics and injuries have meant that another consistently good forward  hasn't been available much.

If Munro is being given his papers because of a supposed under performing pack, I for one think it is very, very harsh.
I will be very interested to see if a new forward coach can make any noticeable difference.
Also by the same logic does that mean if Glasgow don't make the playoffs in the absence of Alex Dunbar that means it's Toonie's fault and he should be sacked at the end of the season?

[George Carlin]

I think its only fair to mention that Cussack, who turned out to be the best forward signed by the club, who gave Glasgow scrum dominance in almost every game he played has been unavailable for the last two seasons. Also  Tom Ryder,  the best ball carrying second row at the club, was out injured and has now released to Northampton.
its very hard to have the same front 5 dominance without these boys available. Also Batman's off-field antics and injuries have meant that another consistently good forward  hasn't been available much.

If Munro is being given his papers because of a supposed under performing pack, I for one think it is very, very harsh.
I will be very interested to see if a new forward coach can make any noticeable difference.
Also by the same logic does that mean if Glasgow don't make the playoffs in the absence of Alex Dunbar that means it's Toonie's fault and he should be sacked at the end of the season?

Agreed - not Shade's fault:
- the club captain is at best their 4th choice lock
- Wilson is a caped crusader
- Grant is Bane
- Naka cannot stop sticking the heed in people
- our best tighthead plays one game then needs 6 months off

Munro has been doing this for quite a long time.

I don't think we can just dismiss the possibility that he wanted to do something else.

A lot of Glasgow fans here fear that with the loss of big name players this year, the club may actually regress in future seasons and that the happy days are now. Who is to say that the big feller does not share the same opinion?

[BigGee]

I don't think there is any question of blame here. Injuries and non availability are what they are and I don't think there is any question of the coach being held to account for poorer pack performances this year. We are still top of the league at the end of the day, so it is not going so badly.

Successful teams always evolve and change things when they are still on top and Toonie seems to be of the opinion that both the squad and the coaching staff needed a bit of a freshen up for next year. Who is to say that he is wrong. SM probably understands that very well and it does not make him a bad coach, it is just the end of a cycle.

[VinceWLB]

Worth pointing out that Stevie Scott seems to be doing a good job at Edinburgh, which almost seems to fly under the radar.

Our scrum has generally been dominant in most games since around November and our lineout is strong.  We are able to retain possession, our problems have been doing something useful with it!

Our defence also used to be rubbish but that has improved recently too.

So basically we're doing well in the areas we have a coach for, bad in those that we don't!

Solomons has been getting a lot of plaudits for the improvements but the main man behind it has been Stevie Scott.

As you said Edinburgh have been rubbish in some facet of the game, guess who is supposed to coach them in those areas.

[VinceWLB]

In other news D'arcy Rae is back to Glasgow till the end of the season, pretty much suggests Cusack can't get out of the sideline to me. Seriously is he really worth keeping in the squad?

[BigGee]

In other news D'arcy Rae is back to Glasgow till the end of the season, pretty much suggests Cusack can't get out of the sideline to me. Seriously is he really worth keeping in the squad?

Its not just Cussack, who I agree looks more and more like a luxury we can't afford any more, Murray had his nose flattened and was concussed and I would be surprised if he is back this week. Looks like it may well be De Klerk with the two youngsters backing him up. I wonder when Jon Welsh will be back? Things are not a lot better on the other side with Reid and Grant both out now for a bit. I guess we are going to see what Allen is made of with Jerry backing him up.

Glasgow are only one more injury away from a prop crisis though and not the time of year to have this.

[RDW]

If you Glasgow fans think you've had a tough week, spare a thought for us Edinburgh fans:


Zayn Malik has left One Direction.

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