Ulster 2014/2015, Part 4

First topic message reminder :

God we love the sound of our own voices.

Here's the reality of the modern game - sad as it is...

It has been decided that to spot every niggle is impossible. And the ones that are spotted are ignored. 
Why?
Because it will disrupt the game too much.

So, players now know they are unlikely to get penalised for holding legs, shirt pulling, blocking, slow chasing etc...

So they do it all day long?

What is the motivation? To gain an advantage? Quite often, this has nothing to do with it.

The tactic is plain and simple to wind players up.

'If I'm lucky, Herring will lose it, lash out and be gone for the semi-final'.


It's quite disgusting, but unfortunately true.

Its a modern day tactic to try and get the opposition to lash out.

It is that 54th minute incident: Herring Cited

Maybe they have better camera footage?

So Herring's citing wasn't upheld, and Minto the citing commissioner has wasted staff and player time, as well as disrupting game preparation. What a farce!

When did this happen? I've been googling it all afternoon filtering to 'past hour', and nothing.

Are they trying to hide away the fact it was a load of nonsense???

Notch posted on the Glasgow v Ulster thread, and it's on facebook:

Rob Herring cleared to play against Glasgow
"The Disciplinary Committee concluded that the player had been held in a ruck by two opponents after the ball had left the ruck, that his actions were the result of him trying to release himself from their grip and that he had not committed an act of foul play."

How much did we all enjoy this hit from Diack?  

https://youtu.be/mwP7s3NfT2c?t=39m57s

Ricky Andrew away to Nottingham. Good luck, Ricky.

http://www.nottinghampost.com/Nottingham-Rugby-sign-Ricky-Andrew-Ulster/story-26553744-detail/story.html

And Heaney returning to Doncaster.

On my way out of Scotstoun. Sickened by this result. Had game in the bag but yet again on the big stage the so-called experienced players that you expect to help us cross the line are the one's that choke.

Rory Best - no doubt he will say all the right things when interviewed, but he had no influence whatsoever when the game was on the line. He is simply not a "winner" - Ok, he'll give lots of effort, but he is just not a player who will find a way to win.

And Ulster have too many guys who are happy to come second. Roger Wilson and Darren Cave are loved on this forum but there is a reason why Joe Schmidt doesn't rate them.

As for Neil Doak, why wait until 72mins are gone before making your first change? Why wasn't McCloskey on earlier? Payne was out on his feet after 55mins. Why no changes in the front row? A better tactician on the sideline could have won this game for Ulster.

Sickened at yet another failure.

Rory Best is a proven winner, actually. He has won 3 six nations titles in his career. He also put his body on the line tonight and was one of the best players on the field, as he usually is. I am absolutely gutted for him, probably more than anyone.

It's a game we should have won, and I think with impact subs we would have probably won. I think it was so close that not replacing Lutton and Stevenson, who were both out on their feet, cost us the game in part and McCloskey could have made an impact too. Doakie got it wrong.

When the game was on the line and the intensity was upped in the second half, Best had zero influence in the game. In fact, he gave away a penalty under the posts.

As for being a 6 Nations 'winner', that probably had an awful lot to do with the other players on that team. O'Driscoll and O'Connell are winners. Leaders of winning teams. Lions captains. Rory Best is not even in the same class, only selected by winning coaches like Gatland and Schmidt due to a lack of options.

Maybe that's harsh, but it's true. What has Rory Best done in big games with Ulster? Against Leinster in the European Cup Final? In two QFs against Saracens? Tonight in Glasgow?

To quote Sean Connery in The Rock: "Your best? Losers always whine about their best, winners go home a f#€K the prom queen"...

If Glasgow had been the much superior side tonight I'd not be nearly as gutted but we seemed to have the game very well managed right up until Doak forgot to use the bench which for me is what lost the game. Empty the bench after 60 -65 mins and we'd be looking forward to another Ulster match and a home final.
I'll remain polite and simply refer to Doak as a twit

Did he sh1t in your cornflakes or something?

UlsterinKildare wrote:On my way out of Scotstoun. Sickened by this result. Had game in the bag but yet again on the big stage the so-called experienced players that you expect to help us cross the line are the one's that choke.

Rory Best - no doubt he will say all the right things when interviewed, but he had no influence whatsoever when the game was on the line. He is simply not a "winner" - Ok, he'll give lots of effort, but he is just not a player who will find a way to win.

And Ulster have too many guys who are happy to come second. Roger Wilson and Darren Cave are loved on this forum but there is a reason why Joe Schmidt doesn't rate them.

As for Neil Doak, why wait until 72mins are gone before making your first change? Why wasn't McCloskey on earlier? Payne was out on his feet after 55mins. Why no changes in the front row? A better tactician on the sideline could have won this game for Ulster.

Sickened at yet another failure.

Agree with pretty much all of that UIK. Rory is a lovely guy, but in truth he is not the basteraud that Ulster need to cross the line. I can see him leaving and don't think that would be a disaster.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Did he sh1t in your cornflakes or something?

He's not fit for purpose and tonight showed that. The players had nothing else to give in the end and any half-wit could have seen that and subbed en-masse.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Did he sh1t in your cornflakes or something?

Haha, no - but I spent a lot of money flying up from London this morning and I was so confident that we would finally have a home final and some silverware to show for all the "almost years" under McLaughlin and Anscombe.... and now I'm gutted. And I expected our big name players with all the experience to carry us over the line when we were in a winning position with 5 mins to go.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Rory Best is a proven winner, actually. He has won 3 six nations titles in his career. He also put his body on the line tonight and was one of the best players on the field, as he usually is. I am absolutely gutted for him, probably more than anyone.

+1  

He was sick in that interview.  He's fed up being second best.  The team dynamic let him down.  You just can't be letting an out and out attacking side like Glasgow back in the game by Trusting to bloody defensive systems.  You have to keep blasted attacking - not necessarily to score but to defend, to keep the momentum away from the opposition.  Glasgow were picking up oxygen and belief and strength by the minute as they watched Ulster stand off and trust themselves defensively.

Pete330v2 wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Did he sh1t in your cornflakes or something?

He's not fit for purpose and tonight showed that. The players had nothing else to give in the end and any half-wit could have seen that and subbed en-masse.

I'm talking about UlsterinKildare's posts on Rory Best.

Flip me, fans can be so, so fickle. It wouldn't be so bad if Rory Best left?! Catch yourselves on. The man puts his heart and soul into our rugby team, and has taken this team through the wars. Of all people to take blame tonight (and there are not many), he should be the very last.

In fact I find it extremely disrespectful, to say the man is not a winner. I really do. Thankfully I doubt he cares what any of us think.

The Great Aukster wrote:

UlsterinKildare wrote:On my way out of Scotstoun. Sickened by this result. Had game in the bag but yet again on the big stage the so-called experienced players that you expect to help us cross the line are the one's that choke.

Rory Best - no doubt he will say all the right things when interviewed, but he had no influence whatsoever when the game was on the line. He is simply not a "winner" - Ok, he'll give lots of effort, but he is just not a player who will find a way to win.

And Ulster have too many guys who are happy to come second. Roger Wilson and Darren Cave are loved on this forum but there is a reason why Joe Schmidt doesn't rate them.

As for Neil Doak, why wait until 72mins are gone before making your first change? Why wasn't McCloskey on earlier? Payne was out on his feet after 55mins. Why no changes in the front row? A better tactician on the sideline could have won this game for Ulster.

Sickened at yet another failure.

Agree with pretty much all of that UIK. Rory is a lovely guy, but in truth he is not the basteraud that Ulster need to cross the line. I can see him leaving and don't think that would be a disaster.

We have lost our last two semi-finals because we are content to control the game, we don't grab it by the scruff of the neck and ram our advantage home when we are in the ascendancy. We're just too nice. I felt Glasgow were there for the taking a bit tonight. Turned down easy points, set piece malfunctioned, some poor positional and defensive play by Matawalu on the wing. Still a good performance from them on the night, but they showed enough chinks in their armour that we should have capitalised on it enough to get us home. Not that we needed to play better, or even be coached better. Just a mindset issue.

We did the same thing last year against Leinster. That game was remarkably similar- except we dominated them for even longer. Dominated possession, territory- but where was the aggression and intensity to land that killer blow?

But lets not go crazy! Best is more lieutenant than Captain but he still adds a significant amount to the team. We'd be mad not to fight tooth and nail to keep him. Could we use Muller Mk2? Of course we could. Is letting go of other senior players going to help us improve? No. We need to add more leaders to the ones we have already if possible. Not relinquish the ones we've got.

We could use more leaders both in the player group and in the coaching staff to get us over the line. Les Kiss has a lot to live up to. He couldn't be better placed to make his mark. In the big games we're literally 0.5% off winning them.

Oh sorry Rory I should have done a bit of back reading.

Besty couldn't have given more and is very much the spine of this side but even he must have been wondering where the cavalry had gone. If he could have radioed for backup he would have. I am simply livid with the lack of a braincell in the coaching crew.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Flip me, fans can be so, so fickle. It wouldn't be so bad if Rory Best left?! Catch yourselves on. The man puts his heart and soul into our rugby team, and has taken this team through the wars. Of all people to take blame tonight (and there are not many), he should be the very last.

In fact I find it extremely disrespectful, to say the man is not a winner. I really do. Thankfully I doubt he cares what any of us think.

+1 Rory
Besty has had huge offers from the bankrollers in France and denied them to stick with us. The man is pure grit and determination but one man can't do it all.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Flip me, fans can be so, so fickle. It wouldn't be so bad if Rory Best left?! Catch yourselves on. The man puts his heart and soul into our rugby team, and has taken this team through the wars. Of all people to take blame tonight (and there are not many), he should be the very last.

In fact I find it extremely disrespectful, to say the man is not a winner. I really do. Thankfully I doubt he cares what any of us think.

Said it better than I could

UlsterinKildare wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Did he sh1t in your cornflakes or something?

Haha, no - but I spent a lot of money flying up from London this morning and I was so confident that we would finally have a home final and some silverware to show for all the "almost years" under McLaughlin and Anscombe.... and now I'm gutted. And I expected our big name players with all the experience to carry us over the line when we were in a winning position with 5 mins to go.

He's one man, Ulster.  Rory is one man.  I don't think he'd regard himself as the guy out front leading the troops.  He's the guy with his head buried in a scrum for lots of the time.  But he gives everything he's got.  
Ulster needs others to step up from the ranks of Others and become an O'Driscoll or an O'Connell.  It's other guys that have to ask themselves are they sitting under and behind the influence of allegedly influential players like Peinaar.  Forget Peinaar.  Forget Best.  Stop hiding.  
Where are the new guys that should be born on nights like this.  There didn't even seem to be any sense that what they were doing wasn't enough in those final 20 minutes.  There didn't seem to be a collective knowledge that it wasn't going to be good enough, they weren't going to hold out and Leaders were required to push Glasgow off them aggressively and emotionally - not simply doing their obligatory defensive drills like good children doing what the coach told them to do in such situations.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Flip me, fans can be so, so fickle. It wouldn't be so bad if Rory Best left?! Catch yourselves on. The man puts his heart and soul into our rugby team, and has taken this team through the wars. Of all people to take blame tonight (and there are not many), he should be the very last.

In fact I find it extremely disrespectful, to say the man is not a winner. I really do. Thankfully I doubt he cares what any of us think.

Spot on

Of the past five years, this is the year we would have thought least likely to succeed, yet here we are spitting fire after losing out in a semi-final.

There are many things we could blame.

But here's something - a little out of left field...

We should have honoured Anscombe's contract.   


We will have pretty much the same squad next year (bar Sam Windsor and Falloon joining) - so we will see - just how good is Les Kiss after all the waiting?


Oh how I would have loved to have had Trimble instead of Bowe tonight...

Our injuries have not helped us this season - but one thing is for sure - I don't reckon Pienaar enjoys the pedestal he's up on. Flogging him weaek in week out only tells him "its all about you big lad, do your thing for us!"

Truth is, there is far worse backup 9s than Marshall, and Pienaar was asked to do too much for us this season. 

I could go on, but ultimately we are all just clutching straws to try and make ourselves feel better. 

Probably would be more therapeutic to just go scream into a pillow. 

Notch wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:

UlsterinKildare wrote:On my way out of Scotstoun. Sickened by this result. Had game in the bag but yet again on the big stage the so-called experienced players that you expect to help us cross the line are the one's that choke.

Rory Best - no doubt he will say all the right things when interviewed, but he had no influence whatsoever when the game was on the line. He is simply not a "winner" - Ok, he'll give lots of effort, but he is just not a player who will find a way to win.

And Ulster have too many guys who are happy to come second. Roger Wilson and Darren Cave are loved on this forum but there is a reason why Joe Schmidt doesn't rate them.

As for Neil Doak, why wait until 72mins are gone before making your first change? Why wasn't McCloskey on earlier? Payne was out on his feet after 55mins. Why no changes in the front row? A better tactician on the sideline could have won this game for Ulster.

Sickened at yet another failure.

Agree with pretty much all of that UIK. Rory is a lovely guy, but in truth he is not the basteraud that Ulster need to cross the line. I can see him leaving and don't think that would be a disaster.

We have lost our last two semi-finals because we are content to control the game, we don't grab it by the scruff of the neck and ram our advantage home when we are in the ascendancy. We're just too nice. I felt Glasgow were there for the taking a bit tonight. Turned down easy points, set piece malfunctioned, some poor positional and defensive play by Matawalu on the wing. Still a good performance from them on the night, but they showed enough chinks in their armour that we should have capitalised on it enough to get us home. Not that we needed to play better, or even be coached better. Just a mindset issue.

We did the same thing last year against Leinster. That game was remarkably similar- except we dominated them for even longer. Dominated possession, territory- but where was the aggression and intensity to land that killer blow?

But lets not go crazy! Best is more lieutenant than Captain but he still adds a significant amount to the team. We'd be mad not to fight tooth and nail to keep him. Could we use Muller Mk2? Of course we could. Is letting go of other senior players going to help us improve? No. We need to add more leaders to the ones we have already if possible. Not relinquish the ones we've got.

We could use more leaders both in the player group and in the coaching staff to get us over the line. Les Kiss has a lot to live up to. He couldn't be better placed to make his mark. In the big games we're literally 0.5% off winning them.

I agree with this Notch. I'm not saying get rid of Rory as some seem to read, but he is the captain, who has to react to what's happening on the pitch. As you say he is a lieutenant rather than a captain and is as good as any hooker in the NH. He has had offers from France and is a winner and I for one wouldn't deny him the opportunity of club success, because right now it's looking as he won't achieve it at Ulster. I want him to achieve that at Ulster, so does he, but given he is coming to the end of his career doubling his earnings in France isn't the disaster for Ulster that some would say.

I can't believe anyone is blaming Rory for this loss. I know the loss hurts and it's natural to search for the reasons why, but surely we really don't have to look much further than extremely poor results against teams we should walk over this season, and the fact that Doak doesn't know how to use a bench.

Rory is one of the greats. An Ulster legend. To lay the blame of this loss at his feet is nuts.

....and to be fair, if you can't be a little bit nuts after such a loss then when, eh?

clivemcl wrote:Of the past five years, this is the year we would have thought least likely to succeed, yet here we are spitting fire after losing out in a semi-final.

There are many things we could blame.

But here's something - a little out of left field...

We should have honoured Anscombe's contract.   


We will have pretty much the same squad next year (bar Sam Windsor and Falloon joining) - so we will see - just how good is Les Kiss after all the waiting?


Oh how I would have loved to have had Trimble instead of Bowe tonight...

Our injuries have not helped us this season - but one thing is for sure - I don't reckon Pienaar enjoys the pedestal he's up on. Floging him weak in weak out only tells him "its all about you big lad, do your thing for us!"

Truth is, there is far worse backup 9s than Marshall, and Pienaar was asked to do too much for us this season. 

I could go on, but ultimately we are all just clutching straws to try and make ourselves feel better. 

Probably would be more therapeutic to just go scream into a pillow. 

All I know is that the person on the opposite side of the mats training with me tomorrow is going to wish they hadn't turned up, although a pillow would probably do the same job

Munchkin wrote:I can't believe anyone is blaming Rory for this loss. I know the loss hurts and it's natural to search for the reasons why, but surely we really don't have to look much further than extremely poor results against teams we should walk over this season, and the fact that Doak doesn't know how to use a bench.

Rory is one of the greats. An Ulster legend. To lay the blame of this loss at his feet is nuts.

....and to be fair, if you can't be a little bit nuts after such a loss then when, eh?

Here's the thing, for all those who point the finger of blame at Doak. He didn't throw his CV in, he didn't say "I believe you are looking for someone to lead a team to SIlverware??"

We had a man who made that claim - Mark Anscombe. Somebody whose contract we refused to honour, and instead decided that we could waste a whole season being coached by somebody who isn't of the required calibre.

Plentry of whispers about Anscombe, but you know what, as an Ulster fan, I only care about what happens on the field. And it was better with Anscombe. 

Absolute shambles from UR. Doak did the best he is capable of. He wasn't making big claims, nor was he the product of a global head hunt.

Shane Logan, for whatever reason decided to write this season off for Ulster and it's fans. Shameful. 

I'm not blaming Doak for being thrown into the deep end, Clive, but that doesn't excuse his use of the bench this evening, or our away form this season. He's new to the top job, and he will learn from it.
I was one of those who wasn't all that unhappy to see Anscombe go, but then I also thought we would have a top coach in his place this season. Not next!

What's done is done, and hopefully Kiss is the solution to finally getting our hands on some silverware.

Shane Logan, for whatever reason decided to write this season off for Ulster and it's fans. Shameful. vomit

True Clive and I also agree re: Anscombe. Despite his faults he was a better man at the helm than Doak.

Still, on a positive note we'll surely see a few Ulster lads playing on thursday against the Baa Baas. McCloskey for one could do with touching a ball seeing as he only got to watch tonight.

clivemcl wrote:

Munchkin wrote:I can't believe anyone is blaming Rory for this loss. I know the loss hurts and it's natural to search for the reasons why, but surely we really don't have to look much further than extremely poor results against teams we should walk over this season, and the fact that Doak doesn't know how to use a bench.

Rory is one of the greats. An Ulster legend. To lay the blame of this loss at his feet is nuts.

....and to be fair, if you can't be a little bit nuts after such a loss then when, eh?

Here's the thing, for all those who point the finger of blame at Doak. He didn't throw his CV in, he didn't say "I believe you are looking for someone to lead a team to SIlverware??"

We had a man who made that claim - Mark Anscombe. Somebody whose contract we refused to honour, and instead decided that we could waste a whole season being coached by somebody who isn't of the required calibre.

Plentry of whispers about Anscombe, but you know what, as an Ulster fan, I only care about what happens on the field. And it was better with Anscombe. 

Absolute shambles from UR. Doak did the best he is capable of. He wasn't making big claims, nor was he the product of a global head hunt.

Shane Logan, for whatever reason decided to write this season off for Ulster and it's fans. Shameful. 

This is frankly nonsense Clive. Anscombe wanted away and had applied to Gloucester before Humphreys. He was out of his depth and yes it was better with Muller, Court, Afoa, Wallace, Ferris etc. but when they went... do you not find it surprising that clubs aren't queuing up at Mark's door?

I would suggest you contact Shane Logan direct. He is very approachable and I can categorically state that he did NOT write this season off for Ulster and it's fans - why would he have put forward such a convincing case to the NI tourist board to have the final at the Kingspan?

Ulster fans, you are top notch rugby people. I hope you find the right answers going forwards, and look forward to the Weegies greeting you in the final next season. You are great fans.

Wouldn't be too hard on Rory. Doe she stack up when compared with the POCs and BODs of the world. HELL NO. that doesn't mean he is dodgy though. There is a mindset issue though with ulster though and it needs addressed. He needs an arrogant, bloody brilliantly c nut to come in and grab these guys by the scruff and tell them that semis and finals ain't good enough. Preferably he is an ulsterman too but by Frak I think we are too polite and too respectful but I wouldn't narrow it down to one guy

Was it really better with Anscombe? Last year we finished 4th and played a good game against the 1st team in the semi-final, dominating possession and territory but failing to land a killer blow until a late try swung the game away from us. This year...

This year, we did a lot worse in the Champions Cup it's true. But at the end of the season, when we had most of our injured players back, we saw performances of the same standard with the same strengths and weaknesses.

Seems to suggest that Doak's systems were basically what the team was running on under Anscombe the entire time anyway. We have exactly the same style of play and tactics now as we did under Anscombe in his second year! I mean, if you look at today and our game against Leinster in the RDS last year they were literally carbon copies. Same tactics, same failings. We never expected Doak to change much since he's been in the set-up, but it's telling we were already playing with his preferred tactics before he stepped in as the official Head Coach.

I've been critical of doak but in fairness our play down the stretch was light years ahead of the first 2/3rds of the season. He did ok in the end yet he didn't have the distraction of Europe after October (despite claiming we were still in it). 

Our first year under anscombe was a peak for me in terms of consistency. Our squad is still lacking in depth though and as I say we don't have the arrogance (or bloody mindedness) needed yet imo