This is why we love Wayne Barnes.

First topic message reminder :

Review of Wayne Barnes v Ireland 2015:

https://youtu.be/IEuXfewLcuY

Ireland lose again with Barnes as ref. Its getting ridiculous now. 3 wins in the last 13 games v Barnes. Really hope we don't get him for any WC games.

Joe Schmidt also has issues with Barnes:

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/joe-schmidt-has-issues-with-wayne-barnes-over-scrum-calls-1.2145742

Graham Henry also suspects something isnt quite right about Barnes' lopsided officiating too

http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/07/31/graham-henrys-final-word-on-suspected-match-fixing-in-rwc-2007/

ME-109 wrote:Or he should have left you score another try against France....

Do you mean let you score?

Pete330v2 wrote:"At the end of the day, refs are neutral, fans aren't."

Nail head firmly hit

I disagree. It is human nature to be biased. Everyone is.

maybe barnes isnt biased he just thinks that ireland cheat at the breakdown so goes looking for their misdemeanours, and indeed looking for their latest "invention" at the breakdown in an attempt to gain advantage.

vs wales, 4 times i saw an irish tackler roll away, towards the welsh goal area in a quasi deliberate attempt to make it hard for the welsh scrum half to get to the breakdown. very clever. and most refs might not have done anything. but Barnes penalised it and explicity referenced it to POC. think it was healy who did it twice within the space of 5 mins. so well done barnes at identifying and neutralising deliberate cheating.

quinsforever wrote:maybe barnes isnt biased he just thinks that ireland cheat at the breakdown so goes looking for their misdemeanours, and indeed looking for their latest "invention" at the breakdown in an attempt to gain advantage.

vs wales, 4 times i saw an irish tackler roll away, towards the welsh goal area in a quasi deliberate attempt to make it hard for the welsh scrum half to get to the breakdown. very clever. and most refs might not have done anything. but Barnes penalised it and explicity referenced it to POC. think it was healy who did it twice within the space of 5 mins. so well done barnes at identifying and neutralising deliberate cheating.

Yet in the 2nd half when Wales did the exact same thing he dismissed it saying they ball was available.The ball was available when he penalised Ireland in the first half but he's inconsistent and becoming close to incompetent.

He ignored a dangerous choke on a Leinster player yesterday and later gave a ridiculous yellow card,although that is partly down to the farcical way all refs are instructed to deal with challenges in the air.

barnes is the best ref at the breakdown. bar none. prevents illegal slowing down of play by any means. thats why the wales-ireland game was such a cracker in the second half, and also why ireland lost. they couldnt slow the ball down at will, and hope to win enough scrum pens to win the match.

strangely reminiscent of Wales's tactics pre the scrum "hit" abolition.

ireland are always "choke" tackling players around the neck. yet now when other teams do it all of a sudden its dangerous. gimme a break. about 1/3 of all choke tackles i have watched, an arm slips up under the jaw. if leinster and ireland players didnt try to milk penalties so much it wouldnt even be noticed.

mcfadden's first collision with habana was probably a red if ali williams's was a yellow.

refs, tjs and tmos all seem to make a horlix of the challenge in the air rules i agree. zero consistency.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

quinsforever wrote:maybe barnes isnt biased he just thinks that ireland cheat at the breakdown so goes looking for their misdemeanours, and indeed looking for their latest "invention" at the breakdown in an attempt to gain advantage.

vs wales, 4 times i saw an irish tackler roll away, towards the welsh goal area in a quasi deliberate attempt to make it hard for the welsh scrum half to get to the breakdown. very clever. and most refs might not have done anything. but Barnes penalised it and explicity referenced it to POC. think it was healy who did it twice within the space of 5 mins. so well done barnes at identifying and neutralising deliberate cheating.

Yet in the 2nd half when Wales did the exact same thing he dismissed it saying they ball was available.The ball was available when he penalised Ireland in the first half but he's inconsistent and becoming close to incompetent.

He ignored a dangerous choke on a Leinster player yesterday and later gave a ridiculous yellow card,although that is partly down to the farcical way all refs are instructed to deal with challenges in the air.

He asked players to move away and penalised them when they didn't or were rolling in the way of the opposition. He penalised Ireland and Wales consistently including a warning to both teams for it. Open your eyes.

quinsforever wrote:barnes is the best ref at the breakdown. bar none. prevents illegal slowing down of play by any means. thats why the wales-ireland game was such a cracker in the second half, and also why ireland lost. they couldnt slow the ball down at will, and hope to win enough scrum pens to win the match.

strangely reminiscent of Wales's tactics pre the scrum "hit" abolition.

ireland are always "choke" tackling players around the neck. yet now when other teams do it all of a sudden its dangerous. gimme a break. about 1/3 of all choke tackles i have watched, an arm slips up under the jaw. if leinster and ireland players didnt try to milk penalties so much it wouldnt even be noticed.

mcfadden's first collision with habana was probably a red if ali williams's was a yellow.

refs, tjs and tmos all seem to make a horlix of the challenge in the air rules i agree. zero consistency.

Are you just wumming? There's a difference between choke tackling and choking them and rightly you would complain and you're a big fan of S Armitage who pushes the breakdown rules to the limit, and beyond!

quinsforever wrote:barnes is the best ref at the breakdown. bar none. prevents illegal slowing down of play by any means. thats why the wales-ireland game was such a cracker in the second half, and also why ireland lost. they couldnt slow the ball down at will, and hope to win enough scrum pens to win the match.

strangely reminiscent of Wales's tactics pre the scrum "hit" abolition.

ireland are always "choke" tackling players around the neck. yet now when other teams do it all of a sudden its dangerous. gimme a break. about 1/3 of all choke tackles i have watched, an arm slips up under the jaw. if leinster and ireland players didnt try to milk penalties so much it wouldnt even be noticed.

mcfadden's first collision with habana was probably a red if ali williams's was a yellow.

refs, tjs and tmos all seem to make a horlix of the challenge in the air rules i agree. zero consistency.

Nope ,we had all the ball in the 2nd half,why would we want to have slow breakdowns.Barnes changed his interpretation from the 1st half where if you weren't out of the way immediately even if you didn't interfere with the SH it was a penalty.In the 2nd half he allowed Wales and Ireland get away with it a lot more.It just affected us more because we had so much more ball.

http://www.the42.ie/sean-obrien-steffon-armitage-analysis-2061981-Apr2015/

Some excellent analysis by an excellent analyst. For the record, I thought Barnes had a pretty good game at the weekend, though O'Brien is right about his communication skills.

Engine#4 wrote:http://www.the42.ie/sean-obrien-steffon-armitage-analysis-2061981-Apr2015/

Some excellent analysis by an excellent analyst.  For the record, I thought Barnes had a pretty good game at the weekend, though O'Brien is right about his communication skills.

good article.

just shows how much grey area there is and how hard it is for anyone to ref it.

we all want to see quick flowing rugby. apart from those fans of teams who cant cant cope with that, who want attritional, slowed down, niggly rugby. which is fine too.

but its clear which will help grow the game and entertain the neutrals. good job barnes, and keep blowing that whistle when teams invent new ways to cheat.

and for the record, if SOB kept his gob shut, both during and after the match, he might find referees a bit more inclined to be sympathetic methinks...

Someone's pony is very very slow.

havent been on for a while

Is this stupid thread still going?

Quins, you necrophiliac! It was dead and it deserved to stay that way!

GunsGerms wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:"At the end of the day, refs are neutral, fans aren't."

Nail head firmly hit

I disagree. It is human nature to be biased. Everyone is.

I shall remember this next time we debate Irish refs and Irish TMO's in the Pro12.

LD, take the hint and let this thread die.

I don't mean to be funny, but I don't really rate Wayne Barnes as a referee. I think it's because he's one of those kind of people that likes being patted on the head.

???

Irish boys have been trying to pat him on the head, use tons of "Yes Sirs" and "No Sirs", kiss him, cuddle him, stroke him, buy him teddy bears........................ they've tried everything to make him see them differently - they go through 'Please Barnes' drills every month just to be prepared for him.............

...but still if he sees Green his eyes go Red .....  

I think Wayne Barnes is one of the best refs in the world.

The Wales vs Ireland game was an absorbing contest and Barnes contributed to it positively.

Barnes was not at fault for Sexton falling apart. Barnes was not at fault for the ferocious tackling and heroic effort from the Welsh. Barnes was not at fault for some of the Irish players being greedy and not going wide.


http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-v-ireland-six-nations-8844325


Wayne Barnes even YCed two Welshman! Awarded Ireland a penalty try. What more did you Irish want?

Did you want Barnes to RC at least two Welshman?

beshocked wrote: Barnes was not at fault for some of the Irish players being greedy and not going wide.

No that was all their own work. And fully intended. Sticking to the plans of 'showing nothing'. No greed there. Subterfuge

So it's part of the master plan in the lead up to the world cup?

Too often fans blame the ref (myself included of course) when ultimately it's opportunities wasted that cost the match.

Ireland forced Wales into making tackle after tackle but didn't take the chances that came from exerting that amount of pressure.

I remember a similar situation for Ireland when they lost to Scotland 2 years ago.

beshocked wrote:So it's part of the master plan in the lead up to the world cup?

Winning a Six Nations playing least 'rugby' and settling for mostly grim reaper defending to get there.  Yeah, shocked, I say that's a strategy that was thinking of hard edged later World Cup games when attrition becomes the biggest weapon rather than the fleet footed loose play.

It mightn't work!!!! Nobody is saying we'll get anywhere in the WC - but yeah, for now, Ireland has shown least and yet came away with their oh-so-close title against some Extremely tasty hot-running offloading sides.

Really secretfly? I thought Ireland were being talked up as RWC finalists...

Defence can be a very effective weapon! Ireland showed that in the 6 nations as a whole. Wales showed that in the Ireland-Wales game.

If England's defence was slightly better then the 6 nations would be heading to England.

Getting the right balance between attack and defence can be tough though I think it's pretty clear that the best time to attack is turnover ball.

Far too often you see teams squandering turnovers.

Also England's attack failed to score a try vs Ireland so obviously still a lot of work to do.

Ireland kept the points difference tally against them low.

I realise I am stating the bleeding obvious but Ireland could afford to score less tries because their points conceded tally was lower.

England's tactic of playing an attacking style works if you can score against every side but of course we know that England could only manage 9 points and no tries vs Ireland.

Ireland may make RWC finals because they have an easy draw.

If they do make a RWC final it's because their provincial teams have won Heineken cups in the past...

Yup, and if Ireland make the RWC final it'll be because they have a NZ coach and Wayne Barnes didn't ref the semi-final. It's true right?

ebop wrote:Yup, and if Ireland make the RWC final it'll be because they have a NZ coach and Wayne Barnes didn't ref the semi-final. It's true right?

Ireland do have a statictically better chance of making of making the final if Barnes doesnt ref us. We have lost something like 11 of the last 14 games he has reffed us in. That is way below our average.

I am fairly confident that if Ireland win their group Barnes will ref Irelands quarter final game though which will probably be against Argentina. Alternatively I wouldnt be surprised if he refs our group game v France.

Either would make progression much more difficult.

Gwlad wrote:Ireland may make RWC finals because they have an easy draw.

I wouldn't call it easy, but the opportunity is there. No-one would be talking us up if we swapped places with Wales.

I would say that it's easy to underestimate the difficulty of the draw we face as Argentina and France are teams which have traditionally looked better in World Cups by dint of having more time together. And if we do slip up in the group against France or Italy it's the All Blacks in the QF, assuming we still make it out. But still- win all our group games and the opportunity for as good a path to the semi-final as we could have hoped for is there.

Notch let's be honest France are still like a headless chicken. With a half decent coach they would be dangerous but Phillipe Saint Andre has got worse and worse since helping Sale win the AP.

IMO it would be better to bring Bernard Laporte as a stop gap for the RWC.

Italy are the 2nd weakest team in the 6 nations and were beaten easily by everyone bar Scotland.

England,Wales and Australia - all more dangerous opposition.