This is why we love Wayne Barnes.

First topic message reminder :

Review of Wayne Barnes v Ireland 2015:

https://youtu.be/IEuXfewLcuY

Ireland lose again with Barnes as ref. Its getting ridiculous now. 3 wins in the last 13 games v Barnes. Really hope we don't get him for any WC games.

Joe Schmidt also has issues with Barnes:

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/joe-schmidt-has-issues-with-wayne-barnes-over-scrum-calls-1.2145742

Graham Henry also suspects something isnt quite right about Barnes' lopsided officiating too

http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/07/31/graham-henrys-final-word-on-suspected-match-fixing-in-rwc-2007/

If any of us with a passing knowledge of the laws watched ANY match again we could almost certainly find offences at every contest for the ball. From both sides. The skill of a referee is in knowing what's materially influencing the game unfairly and penalising that.

Poorfour wrote:If any of us with a passing knowledge of the laws watched ANY match again we could almost certainly find offences at every contest for the ball. From both sides. The skill of a referee is in knowing what's materially influencing the game unfairly and penalising that.

Yes but that's where it sets a dangerous precedent because you are saying referees shouldn't necessarily applies all the laws of the game, just the ones that matter to fit some outcome. referees shouldn't be put in that position because ones view of fairness is surely different from another's. "I didn't penalise that one because that wasn't unfairly influencing the game but I will penalise this one because it is".

That is too much to place on an individual with the stakes so high for some of these matches. Applying discretion should be removed as much as possible from the referees role, not be a central part of it.

Christ, Barnes has been confirmed for Toulon v Leinster. Is there no god?

Well at least Leinster have an excuse when they lose to Toulon!

tigertattie wrote:Well at least Leinster have an excuse when they lose to Toulon!

We are not the favorites thats fine I dont mind. However, if you have to lose to one of the most horrible teams in world rugby then a decent ref isnt much to ask. The game is already ruined.

GunsGerms wrote:

tigertattie wrote:Well at least Leinster have an excuse when they lose to Toulon!

We are not the favorites thats fine I dont mind. However, if you have to lose to one of the most horrible teams in world rugby then a decent ref isnt much to ask. The game is already ruined.

the game was ruined for the neutral when the most horrible team in world rugby squeaked past Bath without scoring or even looking like scoring, without the assistance of the referees whistle.

Toulon are excellent at the breakdown without cheating. Leinster are excellent at the breakdown with cheating. Barnes forces teams to not cheat. I look forward to a try-fest, especially now that giteau is back from injury. wouldnt even begrudge Leinster a score though it does look unlikely.

out of interest, why does everyone think Barnes got given the Leinster game?

answer - every other country involved in Champs Cup rugby agreed with his interpretation of the Irish at the breakdown vs Wales. Hence he gets given the Leinster match in a knockout semi.

?

F**k the Irish in other words?



Ok, f**k the Irish. I'm okay with that.

Barnes is an experienced and trusted referee and him being frequently appointed to high-profile games is testament to that.

Luckily the noise generated by a vocal minority (who happen to take issue with him refereeing when their side has lost) is not enough to drive him from the game.

Sometimes I think we don't deserve referees and I often wonder why they bother.

Looking forward to a good, close game and, hopefully some tries. Over to you Leinster...

Well it's an English man who restarted the Barnes thread after it went dead from lack of interest about 9 hours ago.  Good lad for keeping the Ref fun going for the vocal minority who are obviously having their late evening tea.

That vocal minority shouldn't speak with their mouths full. They're going to get crumbs in their whine

Tea's over for me Cyril. You know I always whine on an empty stomach - hunger keeps me sharp

quinsforever wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

tigertattie wrote:Well at least Leinster have an excuse when they lose to Toulon!

We are not the favorites thats fine I dont mind. However, if you have to lose to one of the most horrible teams in world rugby then a decent ref isnt much to ask. The game is already ruined.

the game was ruined for the neutral when the most horrible team in world rugby squeaked past Bath without scoring or even looking like scoring, without the assistance of the referees whistle.

Toulon are excellent at the breakdown without cheating. Leinster are excellent at the breakdown with cheating. Barnes forces teams to not cheat. I look forward to a try-fest, especially now that giteau is back from injury. wouldnt even begrudge Leinster a score though it does look unlikely.

To be fair, I would probably feel as bitter as you if some of the most exciting players for my country (JJ, Watson, Ford) flattered to deceive yet again when it mattered. Ah well.

SecretFly wrote:Tea's over for me Cyril.  You know I always whine on an empty stomach - hunger keeps me sharp

Good plan Fly. There are certainly some rather indigestible opinions on the table on occasion. Sometimes it's difficult not to tuck in though.

GunsGerms wrote:

tigertattie wrote:Well at least Leinster have an excuse when they lose to Toulon!

We are not the favorites thats fine I dont mind. However, if you have to lose to one of the most horrible teams in world rugby then a decent ref isnt much to ask. The game is already ruined.

I really do hope Toulon win this game.

Steve_rugby wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

tigertattie wrote:Well at least Leinster have an excuse when they lose to Toulon!

We are not the favorites thats fine I dont mind. However, if you have to lose to one of the most horrible teams in world rugby then a decent ref isnt much to ask. The game is already ruined.

I really do hope Toulon win this game.

You're coat-tailing French teams these days then are you?

No. And where did I state I was supporting Toulon ? Oh, I didn't. Not that's it's got anything to do with you, whoever you think you are.

Steve_rugby wrote:No. And where did I state I was supporting Toulon ? Oh, I didn't. Not that's it's got anything to do with you, whoever you think you are.

I never said support, you'd actually have to had been a lifelong follower of the game for that, as opposed to just latching on to the coat-tails of successful teams. Some things never change eh!

I'm not sure who you think you are, probably some self appointed know it all, who actually doesn't. I've been following the game for more years than you've been alive

Not latching on the coat tails of anyone, just hoping this one particular team wins this game.

Steve_rugby wrote:I'm not sure who you think you are, probably some self appointed know it all, who actually doesn't. I've been following the game for more years than you've been alive

Not latching on the coat tails of anyone, just hoping this one particular team wins this game.

Seeing as I was born before 1994 then that's not entirely true is it, Mr Bull. Nice try though. Haven't you got some 'facts' to get wrong like you have been so often lately?

I think we'll all have to declare when we started watching rugby.

That's B&W rugby
Colour rugby
Professional rugby
HD rugby
Crap rugby

Fly, I'm afraid it's futile to engage with nottins - most pointless 606 poster. I'm glad to have had the pleasure of discussing rugby with real rugby fans such as yourself though .

Mr Bull ? What ? If you were born before 1994 then I suggest you act your age rather acting like a 12 year old.

I've been following the game since 1985, how's that for a fact ?

WOW got to love a post like that coming from nottins . Keep talking the talk Mr Bull, I'm not really interested.

Jeez, this thread is meandering across so many of the open, fetid, pustuled, open wounds of the past. Going from Wayne Barnes to Nottins in one day. Not too bad.

Barnes did up my Saints before, but I have no hard feelings. I get over things easily, love one and all. I am that kind of guy.

quinsforever wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

tigertattie wrote:Well at least Leinster have an excuse when they lose to Toulon!

We are not the favorites thats fine I dont mind. However, if you have to lose to one of the most horrible teams in world rugby then a decent ref isnt much to ask. The game is already ruined.

the game was ruined for the neutral when the most horrible team in world rugby squeaked past Bath without scoring or even looking like scoring, without the assistance of the referees whistle.

Toulon are excellent at the breakdown without cheating. Leinster are excellent at the breakdown with cheating. Barnes forces teams to not cheat. I look forward to a try-fest, especially now that giteau is back from injury. wouldnt even begrudge Leinster a score though it does look unlikely.

Ha, I dont think as a Quins fan you should be accusing Leinster of cheating. Most horrible cheats in the history of European rugby. It took a Leinster man to straighten them out and turn them around. Do you see any irony in your silly comments?

Pot kettle.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:To be fair, I would probably feel as bitter as you if some of the most exciting players for my country (JJ, Watson, Ford) flattered to deceive yet again when it mattered. Ah well.

JJ is 23. Ford is 22. Watson is 20. All very young. About 10 caps each is it? What do you expect them to have achieved?

Name me the great players from Ireland who had achieved anything at that age. O'Driscoll had played international rugby for 10 years before he won a Six Nations.

The only reason Ireland had the edge at the Six Nations was experience. POC was playing European Cup finals in 2002. None of those three were in secondary school then. When you factor in B Vunipola, Nowell and May, its a testament to those players they came second.

England/ English teams not winning is because of wasting 2004 - 2010. A 'missing generation'. Nothing to do with the players you mentioned.

GunsGerms wrote:Do you see any irony in your silly comments?

I doubt he does. Mind I also doubt you can see the irony in the person pulling someone else up for a silly comment being, well you.

Boy oh boy this thread descended into a bit of an argumentative shambles a bit like how it began. All things do really go full circle

Count yourselves lucky you never had to face a French team with Alain Rolland as ref. Almost impossible to beat.

Helped Toulon to two HC crowns....

Fortunately for the rest of us Rolland has retired.

Personally I want to see a Saracens-Leinster final.

Good luck Leinster.

I think Wayne Barnes is a very good ref - I thought he did an excellent job in the Wales-Ireland game.

beshocked wrote: Count yourselves lucky you never had to face a French team with Alain Rolland as ref. Almost impossible to beat.

Helped Toulon to two HC crowns....

Fortunately for the rest of us Rolland has retired.

Personally I want to see a Saracens-Leinster final.

Good luck Leinster.  

I think Wayne Barnes is a very good ref - I thought he did an excellent job in the Wales-Ireland game.

There are plenty of threads from Welsh posters that would agree with that.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

beshocked wrote: Count yourselves lucky you never had to face a French team with Alain Rolland as ref. Almost impossible to beat.

There are plenty of threads from Welsh posters that would agree with that.

????  And you come here then to say the Irish are getting it all wrong and a ref can never conceivably exercise an assumed bias????

You got your Rolland - luckily now retired for both your sakes

And we and New Zealand still have Barnes  Not retired.  

We'll look after our own presumptions of bias thanks.

SecretFly wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

beshocked wrote: Count yourselves lucky you never had to face a French team with Alain Rolland as ref. Almost impossible to beat.

There are plenty of threads from Welsh posters that would agree with that.

????  And you come here then to say the Irish are getting it all wrong and a ref can never conceivably exercise an assumed bias????

You got your Rolland - luckily now retired for both your sakes

And we and New Zealand still have Barnes  Not retired.  

We'll look after our own presumptions of bias thanks.

Fly, you can not say that the ref is bias, or that they intentionally made you lose the game. We have heard that so many times over the last, fupp knows (who long has the internet existed?). We have heard it on threads about Rolland, funny enough eh threads I mentioned (tongue in cheek), and we have heard that hear.

I have not said that I personally agree or disagree with Rolland, Barnes, Walsh or any other ref being pulled up by fans for being one-eyed, all I have said is that fans from all teams seem to do it, and fans from all other sides seem to slam them for being into conspiracies, delusional etc.

SecretFly wrote:We'll look after our own presumptions of bias thanks.

What is this ? An Irish man accusing a referee of being biased ? Well, I never thought I would see the day. After all the lectures I am constantly being given by the Irish when I dare mention the words BIASED and REFEREE in the same sentence in the Pro12. Well I cannot help but find myself at a bemusement.

LordDowlais wrote:

SecretFly wrote:We'll look after our own presumptions of bias thanks.

What is this ? An Irish man accusing a referee of being biased ? Well, I never thought I would see the day. After all the lectures I am constantly being given by the Irish when I dare mention the words BIASED and REFEREE in the same sentence in the Pro12. Well I cannot help but find myself at a bemusement.

Ah but it is only one ref, as opposed to being a whole load of them. That is ok.

There isn't a ref on the books that's biased. They have one hell of a difficult job and any of them can have bad days at the office. Barnes is one ref with whom you'd be quicker counting the occasions where he had a good day at the office.

Pete330v2 wrote:There isn't a ref on the books that's biased. They have one hell of a difficult job and any of them can have bad days at the office. Barnes is one ref with whom you'd be quicker counting the occasions where he had a good day at the office.

No that really isnt true particularly in relation to Ireland games.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

I have not said that I personally agree or disagree with Rolland, Barnes, Walsh or any other ref being pulled up by fans for being one-eyed, all I have said is that fans from all teams seem to do it, and fans from all other sides seem to slam them for being into conspiracies, delusional etc.

You've seated yourself on a fence in other words  A wise choice, Scarlet.  

But there you go.  It's our time to call a ref as being suspiciously one-eyed when you consider our record with him.  It's our time to shine as moaners  
It's then for other moaners to show up (like Lord) to accuse us of being hypocrites; and showing himself to be a double hypocrite by laughing at our moans about Barnes (some weeks old at this point) whilst he moaned only the last weekend about another Irish ref....................... who yet again effected a nice comfortable win for his boys!!

Go figure.  Even when you're winning with an Irish ref, he's agin ya

SecretFly wrote:and showing himself to be a double hypocrite by laughing at our moans about Barnes

Oh I aint laughing, I am at a bemusement.

SecretFly wrote:But there you go.  It's our time to call a ref as being suspiciously one-eyed when you consider our record with him.  It's our time to shine as moaners  
It's then for other moaners to show up (like Lord) to accuse us of being hypocrites; and showing himself to be a double hypocrite by laughing at our moans about Barnes (some weeks old at this point) whilst he moaned only the last weekend about another Irish ref....................... who yet again effected a nice comfortable win for his boys!!

Nice a good bit of double standards on top of the existing double standards there, and maybe even another set of double standards on top again.

your moaning about someone moaning about how you used to moan about them moaning in the past, even though they moaned about someone who you then go on to moan about.

correct....you add another level of moan as you describe it.

Now you got the gist of her, Scarlet.

Lord is still a strange bucko though - moaning about refs that gave his side all their biggest wins this season.

I'll have to go to Moan classes a lot longer to be able to work out the maths of that one.

SecretFly wrote:Lord is still a strange bucko though - moaning about refs that gave his side all their biggest wins this season. Wink

I just like a good moan SF. It vents all the pent up frustrations of a busy day.

What has put me in a quandary is though, that the people on here who were lecturing me for it, are now doing it themselves, I can feel a lecture coming on.

SecretFly wrote:correct....you add another level of moan as you describe it.

I hadn't considered that

LordDowlais wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Lord is still a strange bucko though - moaning about refs that gave his side all their biggest wins this season. Wink

I just like a good moan SF. It vents all the pent up frustrations of a busy day.

What has put me in a quandary is though, that the people on here who were lecturing me for it, are now doing it themselves, I can feel a lecture coming on.

Here's an experiment about to be performed for the first time.  A pretty dangerous attempt to stop a thread in its logical tracks.

Oh I don't know if I have the scientific brain to pull it off, but here goes the effort.... where's me tube and me yellow bubbly stuff?

Here goes:

Lord.  I state here clearly and distinctly that you never moan, have never moaned in the past and are unlikely ever to moan again.

SecretFly wrote: I state here clearly and distinctly that you never moan, have never moaned in the past and are unlikely ever to moan again.

Do you honestly believe that.

Is that a 'moan'?

Fly, was the correct reply meant to be "Dang straight, and don't you forget it!'

This thread is awful,I feel dumber for having read it and I wish ill fortune and misery on all who have contributed.I am in that group myself and this is proof of the delcine of my intellect (well not really I could have always been that dumb) .