Pro12 value - the facts

by Chunky Norwich Thu 09 Apr 2015, 6:37 pm

First topic message reminder :

Broadcasting revenue. As revealed today by the CEO of PRW:

The French Top14 = £50m
Aviva Prem = £40m
Pro12 = £11.5m.

That is quite simply unsustainable if you want to be a professional rugby team in domestic Northern Hem rugby. Somethign has to change for the celtic teams, and quickly.

by SecretFly Mon 13 Apr 2015, 12:07 pm

Two or three players missing: 'You see, proves my point, you Irish chaps never put out a FULL strength team.'

Splitting hairs is an absolute art form on this site.

by **Notch** Mon 13 Apr 2015, 12:09 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Notch wrote: I'm looking at the way Josh Navidi is shining for the Blues now, wouldn't have had so many chances if it wasn't for Warburtons international duty and injuries. .

Navidi and Warburton play different positions though.

Navidi started as a seven and now he plays eight because you have yet another young promising seven.

by **Notch** Mon 13 Apr 2015, 12:11 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:I seen a full strength Irish province other than Connacht bring a full strength side to Wales in the league

Brian O'Driscoll didn't play a league game in Wales during the last 6 years of his career.

That's why he lasted the six years

Nailed it.

by Sin é Mon 13 Apr 2015, 12:11 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Sin é wrote:

In France they just send their 2nd team to away games and mostly lose them (except for the Toulons of this world who have a high quality squad of aging imports).

Wow, Oyonnaux must have some depth then, they just beat Clermont in Clermont.

Yep, its made the headlines in France its so unusual. Oyonax have won 12 and lost 10 games this season so far.

Toulon have won 14, lost 8 (14 teams)
Clermont have won 13, lost 8, 1 draw

Munster have won 13, lost 5, 1 draw (12 teams)
Ulster have won 13, lost 5, 1 draw

by LordDowlais Mon 13 Apr 2015, 12:12 pm

SecretFly wrote:

Two or three players missing: 'You see, proves my point, you Irish chaps never put out a FULL strength team.'

Splitting hairs is an absolute art form on this site.

And so is deflecting any fault on your own behalf by the looks of it. There seems to be a theme developing on this forum, we do not boo the kickers, our players never cheat, we always respect the ref, our players are never dirty, and all the failings of the Pro12 are nothing to do with us, I wonder what nation I am speaking about ? Whistle

by Chunky Norwich Mon 13 Apr 2015, 12:14 pm

LordDowlais wrote:

And so is deflecting any fault on your own behalf by the looks of it. There seems to be a theme developing on this forum, we do not boo the kickers, our players never cheat, we always respect the ref, our players are never dirty, and all the failings of the Pro12 are nothing to do with us, I wonder what nation I am speaking about ?

It's called grand delusion.

by marty2086 Mon 13 Apr 2015, 12:15 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
SecretFly wrote:

Two or three players missing: 'You see, proves my point, you Irish chaps never put out a FULL strength team.'

Splitting hairs is an absolute art form on this site.

And so is deflecting any fault on your own behalf by the looks of it. There seems to be a theme developing on this forum, we do not boo the kickers, our players never cheat, we always respect the ref, our players are never dirty, and all the failings of the Pro12 are nothing to do with us, I wonder what nation I am speaking about ?

Coming from the guy who expects players to play injured picard

by SecretFly Mon 13 Apr 2015, 12:16 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
SecretFly wrote:

Two or three players missing: 'You see, proves my point, you Irish chaps never put out a FULL strength team.'

Splitting hairs is an absolute art form on this site.

And so is deflecting any fault on your own behalf by the looks of it. There seems to be a theme developing on this forum, we do not boo the kickers, our players never cheat, we always respect the ref, our players are never dirty, and all the failings of the Pro12 are nothing to do with us, I wonder what nation I am speaking about ?

Wales?

They're usually responsible for everyone else getting the blame for the bad stuff. So if Ireland are to blame for all of that hogwash above then .... it must be Wales' fault Wink

Try that for hair-splitting.

by LordDowlais Mon 13 Apr 2015, 12:19 pm

marty2086 wrote:Coming from the guy who expects players to play injured

And I have said this when ? I'll tell you what, you can just keep making things up to suit your argument if it makes you feel better. thumbsup

by **Notch** Mon 13 Apr 2015, 12:19 pm

We know exactly what we're worth to the Pro12. No more, no less.

by Guest Mon 13 Apr 2015, 12:22 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Griff wrote:I agree Sin, but be careful as TJ has stated that the Welsh whingeing about this is tarnishing the league. Wouldn't want you tarred with the same brush as us.

Yeah, you have got to laugh haven't you ? It's all the fault of the Welsh that the league has no credibility because of our in fighting, but at least we have always tried to put out our strongest sides in the league, I do not think I have EVER seen a full strength Irish side rock up at the regions for a league game.

Ulster XV and replacements to face Scarlets, Guinness PRO12, Parc Y Scarlets, Saturday 6th September (kick off 14:40): (15-9) L Ludik, M Allen, J Payne, S Olding, C Gilroy, I Humphreys, P Marshall; (1-9); C Black, R Herring, W Herbst, D Tuohy, F van der Merwe, R Diack, C Henry, R Wilson (C); Replacements: J Andrew, A Warwick, D Fitzpatrick, L Stevenson, N Williams, M Heaney, L Marshall, A Trimble.

Pienaar, Bowe and Jackson missing through injury and Trimble was rested

Ulster starting XV & replacements to play Cardiff Blues, Guinness PRO12, BT Sport Cardiff Arms Park, Friday 19th September, 7.35pm: (15-9): L Ludik A Trimble, D Cave, S Olding, T Bowe; P Jackson, P Marshall; (1-8): A Warwick, R Best (c), W Herbst, D Tuohy, F van der Merwe, R Diack, C Henry, N Williams; Replacements (16-23): R Herring, C Black, B Ross, N McComb, R Wilson, M Heaney, I Humphreys, C Gilroy.

Pienaar was out injured so missed this game

Ulster: L Ludik; T Bowe, D Cave, L Marshall, M Allen; I Humphreys, R Pienaar; A Warwick, R Best (capt), D Fitzpatrick; D Tuohy, F vd Merwe; R Diack, C Ross, R Wilson

Jackson and Trimble the only ones missing from a full strength side

So from 4 games in Wales, Ulster played as strong a team as they could in two and had one player from their strongest possible team on the bench and the forth game was during the international window when players were on international duty

Not to mention that all but one Irish international plays in Ireland, meaning that many of them miss games through international commitments which isn't the same for the Welsh

Still not full strength though, so what I am saying is right.

No, what you're saying is wrong. Full available strength. Ulster have been hit hard with injuries this season, and so couldn't field what would have been our strongest possible starting 15. Ospreys have also been hammered with injuries, as has Scarlets. Disgraceful behaviour. They should demand their injured to play for the entertainment of the never satisfied.
Players are sometimes rested on orders from IRFU, and rightly so. Or should we flog the life out of them to keep the grumblers happy?

by marty2086 Mon 13 Apr 2015, 12:25 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Coming from the guy who expects players to play injured

And I have said this when ? I'll tell you what, you can just keep making things up to suit your argument if it makes you feel better.

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Griff wrote:I agree Sin, but be careful as TJ has stated that the Welsh whingeing about this is tarnishing the league. Wouldn't want you tarred with the same brush as us.

Yeah, you have got to laugh haven't you ? It's all the fault of the Welsh that the league has no credibility because of our in fighting, but at least we have always tried to put out our strongest sides in the league, I do not think I have EVER seen a full strength Irish side rock up at the regions for a league game.

Ulster XV and replacements to face Scarlets, Guinness PRO12, Parc Y Scarlets, Saturday 6th September (kick off 14:40): (15-9) L Ludik, M Allen, J Payne, S Olding, C Gilroy, I Humphreys, P Marshall; (1-9); C Black, R Herring, W Herbst, D Tuohy, F van der Merwe, R Diack, C Henry, R Wilson (C); Replacements: J Andrew, A Warwick, D Fitzpatrick, L Stevenson, N Williams, M Heaney, L Marshall, A Trimble.

Pienaar, Bowe and Jackson missing through injury and Trimble was rested

Ulster starting XV & replacements to play Cardiff Blues, Guinness PRO12, BT Sport Cardiff Arms Park, Friday 19th September, 7.35pm: (15-9): L Ludik A Trimble, D Cave, S Olding, T Bowe; P Jackson, P Marshall; (1-8): A Warwick, R Best (c), W Herbst, D Tuohy, F van der Merwe, R Diack, C Henry, N Williams; Replacements (16-23): R Herring, C Black, B Ross, N McComb, R Wilson, M Heaney, I Humphreys, C Gilroy.

Pienaar was out injured so missed this game

Ulster: L Ludik; T Bowe, D Cave, L Marshall, M Allen; I Humphreys, R Pienaar; A Warwick, R Best (capt), D Fitzpatrick; D Tuohy, F vd Merwe; R Diack, C Ross, R Wilson

Jackson and Trimble the only ones missing from a full strength side

So from 4 games in Wales, Ulster played as strong a team as they could in two and had one player from their strongest possible team on the bench and the forth game was during the international window when players were on international duty

Not to mention that all but one Irish international plays in Ireland, meaning that many of them miss games through international commitments which isn't the same for the Welsh

Still not full strength though, so what I am saying is right.

You want full strength teams to play, the only way to do that is to play injured players, with the exception of Trimble against Scarlets on the opening weekend Ulster have fielded the strongest team available to them

When was the last time a Welsh region played their full strength team or do they all have miracle recovery powers?

by SecretFly Mon 13 Apr 2015, 12:25 pm

Munchkin wrote:the entertainment of the never satisfied.

My God........................ now there is the Line God was waiting for on the Seventh Day as he rested and waited for humans to take to the field!!!

That's the most perfect line this site has ever seen.

Entertainment for the Never Satisfied.

by LordDowlais Mon 13 Apr 2015, 12:27 pm

SecretFly wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
SecretFly wrote:

Two or three players missing: 'You see, proves my point, you Irish chaps never put out a FULL strength team.'

Splitting hairs is an absolute art form on this site.

And so is deflecting any fault on your own behalf by the looks of it. There seems to be a theme developing on this forum, we do not boo the kickers, our players never cheat, we always respect the ref, our players are never dirty, and all the failings of the Pro12 are nothing to do with us, I wonder what nation I am speaking about ?

Wales?

They're usually responsible for everyone else getting the blame for the bad stuff. So if Ireland are to blame for all of that hogwash above then .... it must be Wales' fault

Try that for hair-splitting.

Nice hair splitting, but by the way this place is going I will have no hairs left to split. Look, what I am saying is, that every country involved in the Pro12 are as guilty as the next for suiting themselves BEFORE the league, weather it be by us squabbling with each other, the Irish provinces resting players, Scottish sides buying in time serving players, or the Italians not upping their game, we could ALL do better.

For people to say that the league is not taken seriously BECAUSE of the Welsh in-fighting, then that is unfair, we are all as much to blame as each other, we are all just suiting ourselves before upping the credibility of OUR league, if people want to abolish any blame onto themselves then I will point out where they are to be held responsible, but for the love of god you cannot just blame the Welsh. Hug

by Guest Mon 13 Apr 2015, 12:35 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Munchkin wrote:the entertainment of the never satisfied.

My God........................ now there is the Line God was waiting for on the Seventh Day as he rested and waited for humans to take to the field!!!

That's the most perfect line this site has ever seen.

Entertainment for the Never Satisfied.

Glad you liked it. I'm king

for a day

by SecretFly Mon 13 Apr 2015, 12:39 pm

Lord, I think we fight amongst ourselves and each other more than either of the other two leagues............... there must be a degree of passion there that when tapped properly will give much more than either of the other Leagues?

So I guess all some of us are saying is why don't we try a new trick sometime and actually start talking about the good parts of Pro12 - the more red blooded passionate bits that makes the laboriously business centric guff coming from the other two leagues seem positively grey.

Let's do a switch and try to see what happens when positive thoughts are used to gain positive opinions of ourselves..... Hug

by SecretFly Mon 13 Apr 2015, 12:41 pm

Munchkin wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Munchkin wrote:the entertainment of the never satisfied.

My God........................ now there is the Line God was waiting for on the Seventh Day as he rested and waited for humans to take to the field!!!

That's the most perfect line this site has ever seen.

Entertainment for the Never Satisfied.

Glad you liked it. I'm for a day

I didn't like it - I loved it, Munch. It travels so deep when considering what 606 has always been about and the nature of the threads over the years. It's so true - Rugby; Entertainment for the Never Satisfied.

by LordDowlais Mon 13 Apr 2015, 12:48 pm

SecretFly wrote:Let's do a switch and try to see what happens when positive thoughts are used to gain positive opinions of ourselves.....

Ok fine I will go with that, but before we move on, we must take a look at ourselves and take into account where each of us have gone wrong and admit it. Like I recognise that the Welsh squabbling has not helped our league and we we need to move on from it, which it does look like we are starting to do now, thankfully.

by The Saint Mon 13 Apr 2015, 12:51 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Nachos Jones_1 wrote:I don't consider myself part of any wolf pack LD, mine was a response to your claim that Irish sides don't put out full strength sides, something I believe to be factually wrong.

Then would you care to evaluate the Leinster side at RP yesterday ?

Leinster: Zane Kirchner; Dave Kearney, Ben Te'o, Gordon D'Arcy ,Darragh Fanning; Jimmy Gopperth, Eoin Reddan; Jack McGrath, Richard Strauss, Martin Moore, Ben Marshall, Mike McCarthy, Dominic Ryan, Shane Jennings (capt), Jack Conan.

Replacements: Aaron Dundon, Michael Bent, Tadhg Furlong, Ross Molony, Jordi Murphy, Luke McGrath, Noel Reid, Luke Fitzgerald.

I've counted 10 internationals in that team and I may have missed one or two (I've also guessed that Te'o was an international in RL so have counted him). The players who are not internationals happen to be very good club players. So LD, that's just good strength in depth and it's something 3 of the 4 Irish provincial teams have. Like it's been mentioned to you, all teams ROTATE. Stop giving the English more artillery with your crap, misinformed comments.

by **Notch** Mon 13 Apr 2015, 12:52 pm

SecretFly wrote:Let's do a switch and try to see what happens when positive thoughts are used to gain positive opinions of ourselves.....

I love Welsh rugby fans in spite of everything. I love the way they all flock together, I love the way they incessantly bleat on, I love their woolly faces and I love eating their young children with chickpeas and roast potatoes.

Wait, no. I'm thinking of sheep. I love sheep.

by LordDowlais Mon 13 Apr 2015, 12:59 pm

The Saint wrote:Like it's been mentioned to you, all teams ROTATE. Stop giving the English more artillery with your crap, misinformed comments.

Saint, I am fed up of you and your insults on here and I am quickley losing patience with you, do me a favour and talk to people properly, who are you to talk about misinformed comments when you did not even know Steve Walsh was retired, now do me a favour and stop trolling me on this site.

by The Saint Mon 13 Apr 2015, 1:06 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
The Saint wrote:Like it's been mentioned to you, all teams ROTATE. Stop giving the English more artillery with your crap, misinformed comments.

Saint, I am fed up of you and your insults on here and I am quickley losing patience with you, do me a favour and talk to people properly, who are you to talk about misinformed comments when you did not even know Steve Walsh was retired, now do me a favour and stop trolling me on this site.

Well try engaging your brain if you want to be taken seriously. All teams rotate, none more than the French, so I've no idea why you would try and criticize Pro12 teams for doing so. That seems very anglo-centric.

Oh dear really? You're not very good at detecting sarcasm are you and I even followed it up with a Phil Vickery comment yet you still didn't catch on. I mean, before all this I had even contributed to the Steve Walsh retires thread. See the dates.

https://www.606v2.com/t58216-steve-walsh-retires-with-immediate-effect?highlight=steve+walsh

The Saint wrote:An outstanding man, a great ref, and a very handsome looking guy. This is truly a very dark day in rugby.

Nice try at changing the subject though....well, not really. Shame as you had a point but then you started whining about squad rotation.

by LordDowlais Mon 13 Apr 2015, 1:12 pm

Saint, I saw what you wrote afterwards and you were backtracking and trying to make it look as though you were being sarcastic. Also, I am not anglo-centric, people on here were accusing the failings of the Pro12 on us Welsh, when I pointed out that the Irish do not help by resting players all the time. Perhaps if you spoke to people on here without being arrogant then more people would take you seriously as well. I bet you do not speak to people in real life like you do on here.

by The Saint Mon 13 Apr 2015, 1:17 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Saint, I saw what you wrote afterwards and you were backtracking and trying to make it look as though you were being sarcastic. Also, I am not anglo-centric, people on here were accusing the failings of the Pro12 on us Welsh, when I pointed out that the Irish do not help by resting players all the time. Perhaps if you spoke to people on here without being arrogant then more people would take you seriously as well. I bet you do not speak to people in real life like you do on here.

Are you just trying to wind me up? I ALWAYS KNEW Walsh had retired - I just posted the thread for you where you can quite clearly see I commented weeks before the RWC referee thread. Am I writing in another language or something? We know what you said. What we are trying to make clear is that all teams rotate - Welsh, Scottish, Irish, French, English... So why would you accuse the Irish of bringing the league down by rotating when we're all doing it? I agree us Welsh are not the only culprits, but that seems to have been highlighted by other posters. Keep telling yourself that.

by LeinsterFan4life Mon 13 Apr 2015, 1:18 pm

It's funny how often the rotation debate comes up. Most, if not everyone on here sees that the players play too many games as it is and yet STILL we have people complain about players being rotated? Put yourself in their boots for a minute. If your an Irish international your still playing over 30 games a season even if they don't travel over to RP.

The one thing the Pro12 could do however is change the structure of the season so we don't have games on the 6n weekends.

by LordDowlais Mon 13 Apr 2015, 1:20 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
The one thing the Pro12 could do however is change the structure of the season so we don't have games on the 6n weekends.

I agree.

by Pot Hale Mon 13 Apr 2015, 1:23 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:This thread has been a very interesting read. Some genuine debate. Shame I'm just a troll /WUM.

See what you did there?

by Sin é Mon 13 Apr 2015, 1:24 pm

LD -

35 year old Paul O'Connell has made 6 starts in the Pro12 this season.
35 year old Donnacha O'Callaghan has had 11 starts.
29 year old AW Jones has made only 8 starts for the Ospreys.

People in glasshouses should not be throwing stones.

by marty2086 Mon 13 Apr 2015, 1:26 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:It's funny how often the rotation debate comes up. Most, if not everyone on here sees that the players play too many games as it is and yet STILL we have people complain about players being rotated? Put yourself in their boots for a minute. If your an Irish international your still playing over 30 games a season even if they don't travel over to RP.

The one thing the Pro12 could do however is change the structure of the season so we don't have games on the 6n weekends.

The AP plays during the 6N too

by SecretFly Mon 13 Apr 2015, 1:28 pm

Ban over-34s?????

It's an idea!!!

Wink

by The Saint Mon 13 Apr 2015, 1:28 pm

Sin é wrote:LD -

35 year old Paul O'Connell has made 6 starts in the Pro12 this season.
35 year old Donnacha O'Callaghan has had 11 starts.
29 year old AW Jones has made only 8 starts for the Ospreys.

People in glasshouses should not be throwing stones.

Injury permitting? How often was AWJ not in the match-day squad? He isn't the best example to use to be honest. Ospreys and the WRU have a job to keep him from playing for his regional team. You could maybe look at Warburton and his ratio. I know he has been a walking injury at times, but this season he has spent a lot less time injured, probably in part due to getting a better rest.

by SecretFly Mon 13 Apr 2015, 1:31 pm

marty2086 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:It's funny how often the rotation debate comes up. Most, if not everyone on here sees that the players play too many games as it is and yet STILL we have people complain about players being rotated? Put yourself in their boots for a minute. If your an Irish international your still playing over 30 games a season even if they don't travel over to RP.

The one thing the Pro12 could do however is change the structure of the season so we don't have games on the 6n weekends.

The AP plays during the 6N too

Yes, but the AP has 12 bloody teams to pick one International squad from. The rest of us have only four or two. It's tough. And AP and Top14 can crow all they like about 'meritocracy' but they never like to factor in the toughness of trying to compete against these big boys on so many different levels and yet be expected to maintain 'competitiveness'

by LeinsterFan4life Mon 13 Apr 2015, 1:32 pm

marty2086 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:It's funny how often the rotation debate comes up. Most, if not everyone on here sees that the players play too many games as it is and yet STILL we have people complain about players being rotated? Put yourself in their boots for a minute. If your an Irish international your still playing over 30 games a season even if they don't travel over to RP.

The one thing the Pro12 could do however is change the structure of the season so we don't have games on the 6n weekends.

The AP plays during the 6N too

Ye your right, they do but that doesn't mean we should. The Top14 has a much longer season and they manage to work around those weekends. It won't mean that we see more of our top internationals play but it will help attendances as they obviously take a huge hit during the 6n weekends and would allow for stronger teams being fielded.

by Sin é Mon 13 Apr 2015, 1:35 pm

I'm comparing like with like (POC & AWJ played the full 6Ns, autumn internationals etc). POC is 35 years old and is being looked after.

AWJ is much younger and isn't playing a lot more games than POC.

As I say, people in glasshouses shouldn't be throwing stones! Why isn't AWJ not playing more games? The PRO12 demand that we see more of him Wink

by Pot Hale Mon 13 Apr 2015, 1:36 pm

So anyway, in summary:

a) The Pro12 brand needs a makeover so that it looks and sounds less like a playground for squabbling children in a tenement lot, and more like the grown-ups lounge in a middle-class semi-d, sipping their campari and sodas.

b) We need more money from the TV companies, so we can keep our best players and bring in the odd shiny SH playing bauble

c) jam buns for tea!!

by The Saint Mon 13 Apr 2015, 1:40 pm

Sin é wrote:I'm comparing like with like (POC & AWJ played the full 6Ns, autumn internationals etc). POC is 35 years old and is being looked after.

AWJ is much younger and isn't playing a lot more games than POC.

As I say, people in glasshouses shouldn't be throwing stones! Why isn't AWJ not playing more games? The PRO12 demand that we see more of him

But there's other things to consider like I pointed out. Also a centrally contracted turned dual contracted player might have been a more appropriate comparison if we're talking about squad rotation and resting players.

by SecretFly Mon 13 Apr 2015, 1:48 pm

Pot Hale wrote:So anyway, in summary:

a) The Pro12 brand needs a makeover so that it looks and sounds less like a playground for squabbling children in a tenement lot, and more like the grown-ups lounge in a middle-class semi-d, sipping their campari and sodas.

b) We need more money from the TV companies, so we can keep our best players and bring in the odd shiny SH playing bauble

c) jam buns for tea!!

a) Get Iceland to take over as Leading Sponsors. Much more fun, much more pink and orange stuff, much more genuinely working class, much more prospects of seeing genuine Z class stars celebrating the Pro12 product and talking it up on ITV during X Factor breaks.

b) More money from TV companies........................ em......................well, ............................ if those lads with the boiler suits and hard hats can be coaxed out of early retirement maybe we could do an underground shaft underneath the SKY Networks Profit Hoarding Warehouse?

c) jam buns is so AP!!!.............................. breakfast rolls for me and nothing else so that I can remember the Celtic Tiger days of Ordinary Joe Millionaire builders.

by Steffan Mon 13 Apr 2015, 1:49 pm

I never watch the Pro 12 normally as the level of competition is so poor and most games lack any intensity. How people pay £20+ to watch that stuff in half empty stadiums is beyond me. Each to their own though. I love watching the Aviva Premiership

I don't mind who wins the Aviva matches but I usually do lean towards the team with Welsh players in. When on the odd occasion I do watch a Pro 12 match I find that they would be good for people with insomnia

by **rodders** Mon 13 Apr 2015, 1:57 pm

Ulster v Connacht was a far better game than the televised AP and Top 14 games this weekend.

Pity Leinster let the side down....boooooring...

by SecretFly Mon 13 Apr 2015, 2:04 pm

rodders wrote:Ulster v Connacht was a far better game than the televised AP and Top 14 games this weekend.

Pity Leinster let the side down....boooooring...

Some sides have to rest up for bigger events next week Wink

Someone gotta hold the fort in Europe.

by Steffan Mon 13 Apr 2015, 2:08 pm

rodders wrote:Ulster v Connacht was a far better game than the televised AP and Top 14 games this weekend

The Irish domestic matches are usually the only ones worth watching I find. Haven't seen any of this match but sounds like Connacht are starting to hold their own a bit now

by marty2086 Mon 13 Apr 2015, 2:12 pm

SecretFly wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:It's funny how often the rotation debate comes up. Most, if not everyone on here sees that the players play too many games as it is and yet STILL we have people complain about players being rotated? Put yourself in their boots for a minute. If your an Irish international your still playing over 30 games a season even if they don't travel over to RP.

The one thing the Pro12 could do however is change the structure of the season so we don't have games on the 6n weekends.

The AP plays during the 6N too

Yes, but the AP has 12 bloody teams to pick one International squad from. The rest of us have only four or two. It's tough. And AP and Top14 can crow all they like about 'meritocracy' but they never like to factor in the toughness of trying to compete against these big boys on so many different levels and yet be expected to maintain 'competitiveness'

The AP have players from Wales, Scotland and Italy away during the 6Ns too not to mention players from other nations during the AIs so no its not 12 teams filling one squad they fill a number of squads.

Also Wales have players playing across 3 leagues in their squad, about a third, so the regions aren't as hard hit during the international windows as the Irish

by The Saint Mon 13 Apr 2015, 2:15 pm

marty2086 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:It's funny how often the rotation debate comes up. Most, if not everyone on here sees that the players play too many games as it is and yet STILL we have people complain about players being rotated? Put yourself in their boots for a minute. If your an Irish international your still playing over 30 games a season even if they don't travel over to RP.

The one thing the Pro12 could do however is change the structure of the season so we don't have games on the 6n weekends.

The AP plays during the 6N too

Yes, but the AP has 12 bloody teams to pick one International squad from. The rest of us have only four or two. It's tough. And AP and Top14 can crow all they like about 'meritocracy' but they never like to factor in the toughness of trying to compete against these big boys on so many different levels and yet be expected to maintain 'competitiveness'

The AP have players from Wales, Scotland and Italy away during the 6Ns too not to mention players from other nations during the AIs so no its not 12 teams filling one squad they fill a number of squads.

Also Wales have players playing across 3 leagues in their squad, about a third, so the regions aren't as hard hit during the international windows as the Irish

Ospreys and Scarlets would certainly disagree with you.

by GavinDragon Mon 13 Apr 2015, 2:17 pm

Steffan wrote:I never watch the Pro 12 normally as the level of competition is so poor and most games lack any intensity. How people pay £20+ to watch that stuff in half empty stadiums is beyond me. Each to their own though. I love watching the Aviva Premiership

I don't mind who wins the Aviva matches but I usually do lean towards the team with Welsh players in. When on the odd occasion I do watch a Pro 12 match I find that they would be good for people with insomnia

as much as i think your lack of interest stems from your feeling unrepresented in the pro12 competition. It is undeniable that the Aviva is superior in terms of quality, entertainment and intensity

by Chunky Norwich Mon 13 Apr 2015, 2:23 pm

marty2086 wrote:

Also Wales have players playing across 3 leagues in their squad, about a third, so the regions aren't as hard hit during the international windows as the Irish

That's laughable.

by marty2086 Mon 13 Apr 2015, 2:23 pm

The Saint wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:It's funny how often the rotation debate comes up. Most, if not everyone on here sees that the players play too many games as it is and yet STILL we have people complain about players being rotated? Put yourself in their boots for a minute. If your an Irish international your still playing over 30 games a season even if they don't travel over to RP.

The one thing the Pro12 could do however is change the structure of the season so we don't have games on the 6n weekends.

The AP plays during the 6N too

Yes, but the AP has 12 bloody teams to pick one International squad from. The rest of us have only four or two. It's tough. And AP and Top14 can crow all they like about 'meritocracy' but they never like to factor in the toughness of trying to compete against these big boys on so many different levels and yet be expected to maintain 'competitiveness'

The AP have players from Wales, Scotland and Italy away during the 6Ns too not to mention players from other nations during the AIs so no its not 12 teams filling one squad they fill a number of squads.

Also Wales have players playing across 3 leagues in their squad, about a third, so the regions aren't as hard hit during the international windows as the Irish

Ospreys and Scarlets would certainly disagree with you.

Both of whom had 8 players each in the Welsh 6N squad which is the same as Ulster in the Ireland squad which is less than Munsters 10 and Leinsters 20

by Chunky Norwich Mon 13 Apr 2015, 2:27 pm

marty2086 wrote:

Both of whom had 8 players each in the Welsh 6N squad which is the same as Ulster in the Ireland squad which is less than Munsters 10 and Leinsters 20

You're forgetting Wales under 20 players, and the facist regime that Warren Gatland runs meaning Wales release very few back to the regions.

by LordDowlais Mon 13 Apr 2015, 2:31 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:You're forgetting Wales under 20 players

Thats the trouble, people on here seem to forget that the regions have very young squads, what people do not realise is the amount of players the regions lose during the 6N, and people are calling for the A side to be re-introduced, that would not work.

by SecretFly Mon 13 Apr 2015, 2:40 pm

GavinDragon wrote:

as much as i think your lack of interest stems from your feeling unrepresented in the pro12 competition. It is undeniable that the Aviva is superior in terms of quality, entertainment and intensity

It appears though that yet again - that's all relative.

It's not the first year that's been said. AP always had an opinion even of itself that it is tops in intensity and quality for a number of years. But perhaps this year again proves that it's a 'relative' intensity and a 'relative' quality. Their top side was blown away by Clermont in Europe.... they didn't even have time to breathe much less compete at quality and intensity levels to match their opponents.
Bath - that should have destroyed a badly misfiring Leinster based on their form versus Leinster form - didn't and lost. Leinster played awful stuff for them and won. Bath, playing all their fleet footed tricks, lost.
So, how many years have we been hearing that AP beats allcomers for the good stuff but they fail to make the trademark attributes tell sufficiently on bigger stages?

by The Saint Mon 13 Apr 2015, 2:40 pm

marty2086 wrote:
The Saint wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:It's funny how often the rotation debate comes up. Most, if not everyone on here sees that the players play too many games as it is and yet STILL we have people complain about players being rotated? Put yourself in their boots for a minute. If your an Irish international your still playing over 30 games a season even if they don't travel over to RP.

The one thing the Pro12 could do however is change the structure of the season so we don't have games on the 6n weekends.

The AP plays during the 6N too

Yes, but the AP has 12 bloody teams to pick one International squad from. The rest of us have only four or two. It's tough. And AP and Top14 can crow all they like about 'meritocracy' but they never like to factor in the toughness of trying to compete against these big boys on so many different levels and yet be expected to maintain 'competitiveness'

The AP have players from Wales, Scotland and Italy away during the 6Ns too not to mention players from other nations during the AIs so no its not 12 teams filling one squad they fill a number of squads.

Also Wales have players playing across 3 leagues in their squad, about a third, so the regions aren't as hard hit during the international windows as the Irish

Ospreys and Scarlets would certainly disagree with you.

Both of whom had 8 players each in the Welsh 6N squad which is the same as Ulster in the Ireland squad which is less than Munsters 10 and Leinsters 20

Ospreys - Smith, Jarvis, Baldwin, AWJ, King, Lydiate, Tipuric, Baker, Webb, Biggar, Walker
Scarlets - RH Jones, Owens, Phillips, Lee, Ball, Davies, Priestland, S. Williams, L. Williams
Those are the players those two teams are set to regularly lose to team Wales as of autumn 2014. Not all were available during the 6 Nations through injury.

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