Regional A teams

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It looks like the superclubs have now hijacked the B&I Cup for themselves now that the LV is over.

Richard Holland is about as slimy as you get. Look at the email he sent. What a tool.

Rev whats your thoughts on a "Dragons Regional Select?"

I stopped reading at Ponty.net

There's no difference between what Cross Keys have had anyway Gav. Be nice if they played at EXP though.

Chunky Norwich wrote:The A Teams might not be called A Teams no. They might be called regional select XVs

They could decide to call a spade, a spade I spose, but history tells me that I can't see that happening.

You and your bloody spades...

Griff wrote:You and your bloody spades...

I cringed when Ponty born Nugget on ChumV urged Ponty fans to support their region.

How they feel now chief been a while and didn't he say he now a Blue through and through

Apologies if posted already but the Dragons have announced that the team representing Dragons A in the B&I will be a Gwent Select XV playing under the Dragons A banner

So are they calling them Dragons A?

I haven't seen it announced by the Dragons? They're being called Dragons Premiership XV, was what I read via the Argus

http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/13309755.Select_XV_rather_than_club_to_represent_Dragons_region_in_British_and_Irish_Cup/?ref=twtrec

That's a mouthful... Why not just call them Dragons A...

Or maybe just Gwent.

Yes it's an ideal team. But are they going to be that much of a step-up from semi-pro level? Not unless more players get a pro contract.

Every thread seems to be turning into a everyone vs Pontypridd. There are some other aspects being mentioned that no one on here has touched regarding this:

Aberavon and Carmarthen Quins have both had played imposed on them by regions this season which resulted in disjointed teams losing by 70 odd points. Basically the club players play pre season qualifiers against other teams in their region to determine which teams qualify, then the region takes over that club after it has qualified and uses whatever players it chooses to play in those games under the name of the club. There was a massive problem this season with regards to Gareth Jenkins and Carmarthern Quins which resulted in resignations in the Carmarthern Quins club.

Secondly only 4 clubs qualify, while these games are going on all the other Premiership clubs are doing nothing, meaning some clubs are inactive for over a month. The suggestion is the regional A teams take part while the Premiership is expanded to possibly 14 or 16 teams so there isnt such a large inactive period for the teams and their players, including the qualifing teams whos players are often dropped in favor of regional academy players. Most of the Premiership clubs have been calling for expansion of their league to get more fixtures to generate more revenue, only Pontypridd seem to be against this.

I thought we were moving towards less teams in the Prem in an attempt to increase the skill level. Does more teams not equal more players that are not regional quality?

Very few players in the premiership are regional quality anyway, the very best Premiership players tend to be players that were not good enough for regional level and were not deemed good enough to be hired by lower league English teams.

Shifty wrote:Every thread seems to be turning into a everyone vs Pontypridd.

Steff's fault. He managed to have a bash at all 4 pro sides in one thread very recently. Left the Terks till last, surprisingly.

The Saint wrote:That's a mouthful... Why not just call them Dragons A...

Aye and it'll fit on the scoreboard too.

Risca Rev wrote:http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/13309755.Select_XV_rather_than_club_to_represent_Dragons_region_in_British_and_Irish_Cup/?ref=twtrec

Blues A then, I guess. Opposition supporters will ask "Who?" of course, but there we are.

Shifty wrote:Very few players in the premiership are regional quality anyway, the very best Premiership players tend to be players that were not good enough for regional level and were not deemed good enough to be hired by lower league English teams.

Aye and i'm wondering how many prem players will actually feature in the A teams. Shewerly the prem sides will want their players playing for them and not dragged away to play for the A teams. Also wondering if Cardiff will still feature in the WP.

Shifty wrote:Every thread seems to be turning into a everyone vs Pontypridd.

Or maybe Pontypridd vs Everyone...

Shifty wrote:only Pontypridd seem to be against this.

Probably has something to do with it.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/13309755.Select_XV_rather_than_club_to_represent_Dragons_region_in_British_and_Irish_Cup/?ref=twtrec

Blues A then, I guess. Opposition supporters will ask "Who?" of course, but there we are.

Really?! 12 years is no insignificant timeframe in the life of these Welsh sides. I know you don't like the regional concept, and hate your spade being called a shovel, but I think you do oppositon fans a disservice here. If you asked a Leinster fan who 'Blues A' are I'm sure most would have a decent stab at it being Cardiff Blues A team. What makes you think there would be lots of confusion? As always, perhpas I'm missing your point.

Griff wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/13309755.Select_XV_rather_than_club_to_represent_Dragons_region_in_British_and_Irish_Cup/?ref=twtrec

Blues A then, I guess. Opposition supporters will ask "Who?" of course, but there we are.

Really?! 12 years is no insignificant timeframe in the life of these Welsh sides. I know you don't like the regional concept, and hate your spade being called a shovel, but I think you do oppositon fans a disservice here. If you asked a Leinster fan who 'Blues A' are I'm sure most would have a decent stab at it being Cardiff Blues A team. What makes you think there would be lots of confusion? As always, perhpas I'm missing your point.

Bedford Blues could add to the confusion too I guess. Like Gleision already does over yur. Could do what Northampton did a couple of years ago and put the oppos club identity on the scoreboard ie Llanelli instead of Scarlets. That was amusing.
What's the "regional concept" btw?

Griff wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/13309755.Select_XV_rather_than_club_to_represent_Dragons_region_in_British_and_Irish_Cup/?ref=twtrec

Blues A then, I guess. Opposition supporters will ask "Who?" of course, but there we are.

Really?! 12 years is no insignificant timeframe in the life of these Welsh sides. I know you don't like the regional concept, and hate your spade being called a shovel, but I think you do oppositon fans a disservice here. If you asked a Leinster fan who 'Blues A' are I'm sure most would have a decent stab at it being Cardiff Blues A team. What makes you think there would be lots of confusion? As always, perhpas I'm missing your point.

Here's one for you Griff...
When is a spade not a spade?
When it's a club of course.
Your deal.

"Obviously, 10th in the league is not where the Cardiff Blues want to be," said Wilson.
"It's a club which is steeped in history and tradition and it's something that I'm really looking forward to getting started."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/33107645

“In the long term, climbing the league and, ultimately, getting back into European rugby has to be a goal for the region.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/new-cardiff-blues-head-coach-9441312

See anyone can pick random quotes to support their own view ;-)

GavinDragon wrote:“In the long term, climbing the league and, ultimately, getting back into European rugby has to be a goal for the region.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/new-cardiff-blues-head-coach-9441312

See anyone can pick random quotes to support their own view ;-)

Agreed.
Are you mischief making or is it me?

no not really. Although I think the two quotes sum up the confused state of welsh domestic rugby at present.

Problem is there is no solution that will please all

GavinDragon wrote:no not really. Although I think the two quotes sum up the confused state of welsh domestic rugby at present.

Problem is there is no solution that will please all

Aye, but a large dose of honesty could help. Pretending hasn't really worked.

pretending, pretence, ownership and finance doesnt really matter.

When you have people who believe in the concept and view the pro teams as regions and support on thart basis you are risking that support by moving away from it

GavinDragon wrote:pretending, pretence, ownership and finance doesnt really matter.

When you have people who believe in the concept and view the pro teams as regions and support on thart basis you are risking that support by moving away from it

Keep fibbing with "the concept" then (an abstract idea btw)?
You risk losing support the other way around too though by pretending.

I've not got a huge problem with the Blues being called Cardiff RFC if they want to be really stubborn, but as long as they agree to take part in 'the regional concept'. In other words, they are in partnership with every other club within the pre-defined Blues region. They work together as partners and the other clubs in that 'region' buy into the concept of developing players ultimately for the Blues/Cardiff pro team at the head of the region. THAT'S the regional concept. The opposite, which I suspect you want David, is where Cardiff RFC are completely on their own and ultimately in competition with the other teams in their area and do not want to engage with the clubs that underpin them. As we had under the old model. If that is really what the Blues want (or any other current regional team for that matter) then I personally think they should step aside and f*** off, perhaps to the English league, as that does not work in the pyramid structure the WRU have been trying to create.

So for me I agree that what we have is hard to describe as regional rugby. Maybe they should call it Geographical Rugby. But the concept is simple. All teams in an area feed up to a pro team and the pro team in turn does it's bit in this geographical area. Call it Cardiff if you have to (bless) but if you absolutely can't sign up to a partnership with others then you should do the right thing and say so. Be brave, be honest, but don't take the 'regional' cash for sweet FA like some benefit scrounger.

Wow.

You're welcome.

While I wont be quite so vociferous as Grif, what I will say is that I can see and understand that you probably were invested as a fan in Cardiff RFC way before regionalism, further more Cardiff paid their way to be a standalone entity and so feel that they should exist as a club only,

but not every fan of the regions feels the same way as you do. I doubt I will ever convince you to change your mind and vice versa

Sorry Dave, I realise I was a bit brusque there. But all of this spade stuff is a bit tiresome. What spade do you a actually want? Actually, what spades do you want (plural) as we need more than 1 team? I know you're not much of a talker but some dialogue would be fab. Cheers.

As I have said many times, you can't and won't please everyone no matter what format you decide on.

Some of us have accepted Regionalism and enjoy it, that's our choice likewise those that have decided not to support it then that's their choice.

No one should be forced to accept or refuse something they don't want to.

Griff, that is my sentiments exactly and Bedford agree with that too, in a way I think I'm the perfect Regional fan, I was about to become a Celtic Warrior ST holder when they folded, there were a number of reasons for their demise, too many to go into here, but I didn't want Welsh Rugby stumbling on as they did in the 90s, I can remember what we were like in the 70s and felt this was the best chance of this happening, the 2 nearest Regions to me was the Blues and the Ospreys, because of the Blues antics at the onset of Regional Rugby it had to be the Os, and then because of the Dodger and Prickerings antics, my allegiance went from the WRU totally to the Ospreys in particular and all the other teams in general, hopefully with them 2 gone or about to, I will actually start to support the Welsh team with more enthusiasm soon.

Going back to the original topic I am still torn on this decision.

While I acknowledge the regional select xv's are intended to improve standards, i question whether this will happen, while I accept the quality of the squad should in theory be better than a club side, if the team do not gel and play poorly how is this developing the players within it, and it is not easy to get a side to gel in such a short space of time.

I also think there is something to be said for giving the WP clubs something to aim for beyond the Welsh Prem. Cross Keys and Ponty's success has only been a good thing for Welsh rugby

I tend to agreed Gavin. However, from a regional rugby point of view (and therefore a WRU pro-game development point of view) the B&I cup limits the exposure of the regional fringe players a bit. Currently, regional fringe and academy players are shared out amongst the prem teams (e.g. In Gwent Cross Keys, Newport, Bedwas and I expect soon Ebbw Vale get players 'placed' with them) but if Gwent is represented by only Cross Keys in the B&I cup then only a 1/4 of the 'A' type players are getting exposed to this level. With an A team you can round up these players sent out on loan or on dual contracts and put them together to form a Gwent Premiership XV thus making sure all or most are involved. I'm not sure I agree with it. I do quite like the clubs being involved, but I can see (from a reginal development stand point) why the WRU are keen to do this.

You're right though, I doubt a scratch team will do better than, say, a Cross Keys or Pontyridd who have been playing together all season, know the set plays and calls, etc. Scratch teams rarely ever do well.

A lot would depend on how much time the coaches had with players. I think the idea in general is a good one but if they just threw players together from Ebbw, Keys, Bedwas and Newport the week before the game then it won't work.

If they were given a bit of time though it could guess we won't know until we try it and again let's be honest we haven't really got a good record in it as we stand with Keys the only Welsh side to ever make the final so far.

English sides have won it 3 times and Irish Provinces the other 3.

Griff wrote:I've not got a huge problem with the Blues being called Cardiff RFC if they want to be really stubborn

And therein lies the problem, like I have said before, it is a two way street, Ponty do not want anything to do with Cardiff and Cardiff want nothing to do with Ponty either, that is why they paid for stand alone status, why would Pontypridd fans suddenly want to change clubs and start supporting Cardiff ?

LordDowlais wrote:

Griff wrote:I've not got a huge problem with the Blues being called Cardiff RFC if they want to be really stubborn

And therein lies the problem, like I have said before, it is a two way street, Ponty do not want anything to do with Cardiff and Cardiff want nothing to do with Ponty either, that is why they paid for stand alone status, why would Pontypridd fans suddenly want to change clubs and start supporting Cardiff ?

One of those teams has tried to build bridges with the other. The other one hasn't. Time to concentrate efforts elsewhere.

Chunky Norwich wrote:One of those teams has tried to build bridges with the other

As long as you still have fans who still see the Blues as Cardiff RFC then NO bridges will ever be built.

LordDowlais wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:One of those teams has tried to build bridges with the other

As long as you still have fans who still see the Blues as Cardiff RFC then NO bridges will ever be built.

No, once the majority see it as the Blues then the bridges will be built.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:One of those teams has tried to build bridges with the other

As long as you still have fans who still see the Blues as Cardiff RFC then NO bridges will ever be built.

No, once the majority see it as the Blues then the bridges will be built.

I go down there most weekends when Cardiff Blues play at home and trust me, the locals still see the side as Cardiff RFC. Most of them do not, and have not wanted anything to do with any other clubs within their region.

While it's true that many Blues fans see themselves as Cardiff, nothing would ever change the Pontypridd mentality. They will never support whatever team plays at Cardiff Arms Park. They want a professional side playing from Sardis Road. Which is laughable in itself.

Well you will all be having quite the shock if the news I have heard about the Welsh Prem next year is true.

LordDowlais wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:One of those teams has tried to build bridges with the other

As long as you still have fans who still see the Blues as Cardiff RFC then NO bridges will ever be built.

No, once the majority see it as the Blues then the bridges will be built.

I go down there most weekends when Cardiff Blues play at home and trust me, the locals still see the side as Cardiff RFC. Most of them do not, and have not wanted anything to do with any other clubs within their region.

Where are you standing/sitting. None of that nonsense in the North Terrace. Quite a few valley's boys and girls stand the Taff side of the halfway line. Don't waste your time with people who can't move on.

Coleman wrote:Where are you standing/sitting. None of that nonsense in the North Terrace

I usually sit in the main stand if I do not have a hospitality ticket.

But as far as I am aware, myself, my brother and the old man are the only people who come down from Merthyr to watch the Blues.