Regional A teams

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It looks like the superclubs have now hijacked the B&I Cup for themselves now that the LV is over.

Richard Holland is about as slimy as you get. Look at the email he sent. What a tool.

LordDowlais wrote:

Coleman wrote:Where are you standing/sitting. None of that nonsense in the North Terrace

I usually sit in the main stand if I do not have a hospitality ticket.

But as far as I am aware, myself, my brother and the old man are the only people who come down from Merthyr to watch the Blues.

Start a supporters club? Ask around the area and maybe if you have a few of you the Blues will subsidise a bus/coach down? We need people like you to make things like this happen for the region to grow and with Merthyr RFC now on board maybe there will be more interest.

It would be good if there could be a really objective bit of research into fans perceptions to give us an idea of how many fans want the regions to revert to club name/brands, how many wish to stay as we are and how many think a further re-brand is necessary...

Don't think it would ever happen but i would be interested in seeing the figures

LordDowlais wrote:

Griff wrote:I've not got a huge problem with the Blues being called Cardiff RFC if they want to be really stubborn

And therein lies the problem, like I have said before, it is a two way street, Ponty do not want anything to do with Cardiff and Cardiff want nothing to do with Ponty either, that is why they paid for stand alone status, why would Pontypridd fans suddenly want to change clubs and start supporting Cardiff ?

They paid to stand alone, but that does not mean that they (or the Scarlets) paid not to be part of regional rugby. They just didn't have to merge with another club. So while the Blues can be called Cardiff or Blues or Capital Cowboys or whatever they want, they are still signed up to regional rugby and as such they need to embrace the regional concept. This involves them as the top/pro club placing players with other teams in their region for experience, trying to build relationships with the clubs at all levels in their geographical area, marketing themselves wider than just Cardiff, and in return other clubs (who've also signed up to this as part of the WRU charter, or whatever it's called) will feed upwards and should have development pathways in place between the two. It's just made that bit more difficult if you insist on your old club name rather than a regional name. But that's just my opinion. It shouldn't be competition, it should be partnerships and relationship building. They get millions in funding to do this. If Cardiff want to be completely isolated and not play their part then I don't understand why the WRU continues to fund them. But my feeling is that they DO make an effort with most clubs, that the relationship has just broken down with one club (Ponty), but on all other fronts they are doing their bit as a 'region', even iof it's not in name. Perhaps they could do more, but I'm sure we all could.

But my main argument was with Cardiff Dave who, I think, feels that Cardiff should be completely stand alone and not part of regional rugby, the pyramid structure that we've got, etc. For me, if we're not going down the regional/geographical route then we need to bring in promotion and relegation of our sides in the Pro12. Otherwise you've got a ring fenced team sitting pretty, doing nothing to develop the game outside of Cardiff, getting money to do that, and any opportunities for players in the wider region are stunted as the relationships between clubs will be poor.

Griff wrote: Otherwise you've got a ring fenced team sitting pretty, doing nothing to develop the game outside of Cardiff, getting money to do that, and any opportunities for players in the wider region are stunted as the relationships between clubs will be poor.

That is exactly what we have got, what have Cardiff, the city and the teams in it done for Welsh rugby lately ? Sam Warburton and Jamie Roberts, that's it. The valleys do a lot more for Cardiff and Wales than what Cardiff do. The clubs in and around Cardiff need to start upping their games.

Griff wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Griff wrote:I've not got a huge problem with the Blues being called Cardiff RFC if they want to be really stubborn

And therein lies the problem, like I have said before, it is a two way street, Ponty do not want anything to do with Cardiff and Cardiff want nothing to do with Ponty either, that is why they paid for stand alone status, why would Pontypridd fans suddenly want to change clubs and start supporting Cardiff ?

They paid to stand alone, but that does not mean that they (or the Scarlets) paid not to be part of regional rugby.  They just didn't have to merge with another club.  So while the Blues can be called Cardiff or Blues or Capital Cowboys or whatever they want, they are still signed up to regional rugby and as such they need to embrace the regional concept.  This involves them as the top/pro club placing players with other teams in their region for experience, trying to build relationships with the clubs at all levels in their geographical area, marketing themselves wider than just Cardiff, and in return other clubs (who've also signed up to this as part of the WRU charter, or whatever it's called) will feed upwards and should have development pathways in place between the two.  It's just made that bit more difficult if you insist on your old club name rather than a regional name.  But that's just my opinion.  It shouldn't be competition, it should be partnerships and relationship building.  They get millions in funding to do this.  If Cardiff want to be completely isolated and not play their part then I don't understand why the WRU continues to fund them.  But my feeling is that they DO make an effort with most clubs, that the relationship has just broken down with one club (Ponty), but on all other fronts they are doing their bit as a 'region', even iof it's not in name.  Perhaps they could do more, but I'm sure we all could.  

But my main argument was with Cardiff Dave who, I think, feels that Cardiff should be completely stand alone and not part of regional rugby, the pyramid structure that we've got, etc.  For me, if we're not going down the regional/geographical route then we need to bring in promotion and relegation of our sides in the Pro12.  Otherwise you've got a ring fenced team sitting pretty, doing nothing to develop the game outside of Cardiff, getting money to do that, and any opportunities for players in the wider region are stunted as the relationships between clubs will be poor.

Could you not let the Blues be purely Cardiff, if that is what they are after, and then allow Ponty and the Valleys to head to Dave Parade/Library instead? Officially making them part of the Dragons or Ospreys?

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Could you not let the Blues be purely Cardiff, if that is what they are after, and then allow Ponty and the Valleys to head to Dave Parade/Library instead? Officially making them part of the Dragons or Ospreys?

If that happened the Blues would not have any players.

Griff wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Griff wrote:I've not got a huge problem with the Blues being called Cardiff RFC if they want to be really stubborn

And therein lies the problem, like I have said before, it is a two way street, Ponty do not want anything to do with Cardiff and Cardiff want nothing to do with Ponty either, that is why they paid for stand alone status, why would Pontypridd fans suddenly want to change clubs and start supporting Cardiff ?

They paid to stand alone, but that does not mean that they (or the Scarlets) paid not to be part of regional rugby.  They just didn't have to merge with another club.  So while the Blues can be called Cardiff or Blues or Capital Cowboys or whatever they want, they are still signed up to regional rugby and as such they need to embrace the regional concept.  This involves them as the top/pro club placing players with other teams in their region for experience, trying to build relationships with the clubs at all levels in their geographical area, marketing themselves wider than just Cardiff, and in return other clubs (who've also signed up to this as part of the WRU charter, or whatever it's called) will feed upwards and should have development pathways in place between the two.  It's just made that bit more difficult if you insist on your old club name rather than a regional name.  But that's just my opinion.  It shouldn't be competition, it should be partnerships and relationship building.  They get millions in funding to do this.  If Cardiff want to be completely isolated and not play their part then I don't understand why the WRU continues to fund them.  But my feeling is that they DO make an effort with most clubs, that the relationship has just broken down with one club (Ponty), but on all other fronts they are doing their bit as a 'region', even iof it's not in name.  Perhaps they could do more, but I'm sure we all could.  

But my main argument was with Cardiff Dave who, I think, feels that Cardiff should be completely stand alone and not part of regional rugby, the pyramid structure that we've got, etc.  For me, if we're not going down the regional/geographical route then we need to bring in promotion and relegation of our sides in the Pro12.  Otherwise you've got a ring fenced team sitting pretty, doing nothing to develop the game outside of Cardiff, getting money to do that, and any opportunities for players in the wider region are stunted as the relationships between clubs will be poor.

Cannot agree with this point more. And if those who advocate the dropping of the regional pretence prevail I hope that this does happen. WRU to offer 5 year rolling franchises or whatever...then I shall be putting my hard earned cash behind whatever valleys entity put their hands up in the hope that they ursurp the arrogant t"*&ts who think that rugby stops at the m4

LordDowlais wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Could you not let the Blues be purely Cardiff, if that is what they are after, and then allow Ponty and the Valleys to head to Dave Parade/Library instead? Officially making them part of the Dragons or Ospreys?

If that happened the Blues would not have any players.

That is far from true. If they were to be purely Cardiff, they have got a cheque book, and can also offer first team rugby to players, they will always have a team. And the same would most likely happen with their development pathway sides too. Kids who failed to make the Dragons/Ospreys academies would end up in the Cardiff academy etc.

GavinDragon wrote:

Griff wrote:But my main argument was with Cardiff Dave who, I think, feels that Cardiff should be completely stand alone and not part of regional rugby, the pyramid structure that we've got, etc.  For me, if we're not going down the regional/geographical route then we need to bring in promotion and relegation of our sides in the Pro12.  Otherwise you've got a ring fenced team sitting pretty, doing nothing to develop the game outside of Cardiff, getting money to do that, and any opportunities for players in the wider region are stunted as the relationships between clubs will be poor.

Cannot agree with this point more. And if those who advocate the dropping of the regional pretence prevail I hope that this does happen. WRU to offer 5 year rolling franchises or whatever...then I shall be putting my hard earned cash behind whatever valleys entity put their hands up in the hope that they ursurp the arrogant t"*&ts who think that rugby stops at the m4

It would be interesting to see what would happen if we were to go down that route, and to see what 'new' sides are put forward. Would you be looking at just more arrogant tools who are in the Prem now, or would you be looking at county type teams?

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Could you not let the Blues be purely Cardiff, if that is what they are after, and then allow Ponty and the Valleys to head to Dave Parade/Library instead? Officially making them part of the Dragons or Ospreys?

If that happened the Blues would not have any players.

That is far from true.  If they were to be purely Cardiff, they have got a cheque book, and can also offer first team rugby to players, they will always have a team.  And the same would most likely happen with their development pathway sides too.  Kids who failed to make the Dragons/Ospreys academies would end up in the Cardiff  academy etc.

The clubs in and around Cardiff are not producing any players for the Blues though, to be a successful "region" that is one fundamental issue that you need in place before you start, not just take the cast offs other regions do not see as good enough, Cardiff Blues would not have any players to fill their academy's, A sides, and first teams squads without the numbers the valleys supply them, and that is a FACT.

LordDowlais wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Could you not let the Blues be purely Cardiff, if that is what they are after, and then allow Ponty and the Valleys to head to Dave Parade/Library instead? Officially making them part of the Dragons or Ospreys?

If that happened the Blues would not have any players.

That is far from true.  If they were to be purely Cardiff, they have got a cheque book, and can also offer first team rugby to players, they will always have a team.  And the same would most likely happen with their development pathway sides too.  Kids who failed to make the Dragons/Ospreys academies would end up in the Cardiff  academy etc.

The clubs in and around Cardiff are not producing any players for the Blues though, to be a successful "region" that is one fundamental issue that you need in place before you start, not just take the cast offs other regions do not see as good enough, Cardiff Blues would not have any players to fill their academy's, A sides, and first teams squads without the numbers the valleys supply them, and that is a FACT.

So where would the kids that are filling their academies go? Would all the others suddenly find extra room to fit these lads in? No they won't. So then they will go to the only academy that has free space, which would be Cardiff. Truth is there are X amount of players up to Pro12 standards, and academy kids, and there are X amount of regional places and academy slots. So you would have to believe that Cardiff would have a players coming through.

SS, seriously, take a look at the players in the Cardiff squad, and the academy's. They are jam packed full to the rafters with players from the valleys, if the valleys were not in Cardiff's catchment area, then the teams in Cardiff would not be sufficient to keep the "region" going. That is why they should not be a stand alone region. Cardiff do not have sufficient clubs to sustain a region, the valleys do.

LordDowlais wrote:

Griff wrote: Otherwise you've got a ring fenced team sitting pretty, doing nothing to develop the game outside of Cardiff, getting money to do that, and any opportunities for players in the wider region are stunted as the relationships between clubs will be poor.

That is exactly what we have got, what have Cardiff, the city and the teams in it done for Welsh rugby lately ? Sam Warburton and Jamie Roberts, that's it. The valleys do a lot more for Cardiff and Wales than what Cardiff do. The clubs in and around Cardiff need to start upping their games.

I'm not usually in the business of defending the Blues or fighting their corner, but they've developed more than just those two. Rhys Patchell, Cory Allen, Lloyd Williams too off the top of my head. Josh Navidi is Cardiff/Bridgend too isn't he?

sam warburton, rhys patchell, cory allen, jamie roberts, dan fish, ellis jenkins from Cardiff
josh navidi, lloyd williams from bridgend
owain williams ( sadly retired ) harry robinson, sam hobbs, tom james, bradley davies from the valleys
kristian dacey ? alex cuthbert ? leigh halfpenny ? scott andrews ?

cardiff local clubs could do more to develop players. 1 in 10 of wales' population live in cardiff. thats not representative of wales or the blues teams. Or perhaps people in cardiff just aren't any good at rugby ? ( might explain the Blues current form ! ) Or perhaps the pollution stunts their growth ???

I am a cardiffian and a Blues fan. Not a biased and bitter ex Celtic warriors fan. just sayin.

LordDowlais wrote:SS, seriously, take a look at the players in the Cardiff squad, and the academy's. They are jam packed full to the rafters with players from the valleys, if the valleys were not in Cardiff's catchment area, then the teams in Cardiff would not be sufficient to keep the "region" going. That is why they should not be a stand alone region. Cardiff do not have sufficient clubs to sustain a region, the valleys do.

None of the clubs do, including the valleys. That was the whole point of regionalism...

LordDowlais wrote:SS, seriously, take a look at the players in the Cardiff squad, and the academy's. They are jam packed full to the rafters with players from the valleys, if the valleys were not in Cardiff's catchment area, then the teams in Cardiff would not be sufficient to keep the "region" going. That is why they should not be a stand alone region. Cardiff do not have sufficient clubs to sustain a region, the valleys do.

Lord, let me word it another way. Where will these valley boys who are feeding the Blues academy go then? Will the Ospreys and Dragons suddenly manage to have bigger academies, with all the additional cost? No. So then these kids will be faced with either go to the Cardiff Academy or jack in rugby full stop.

Anyway, to be honest I personally don't give a flying fig whether they are the Blues or Cardiff Superclub. The truth is that if they are a region then they are right to be utilising the talent from around the region, and to be honest people whinging about it really don't grasp the whole concept of regions. And if they are not a region but a super club, then why would anything change from how it is now? As per my last handful of replies to you.

There is money in Cardiff, and they will attract players with first team rugby, and wages. Also there are only so many first team/academy places in Wales, and if people want to be on the big stages/academies, then they will go to teams that can provide that, rather than languishing in the Prem, waiting for their region to pick them. Look at the likes of Morgan Stoddart, Leigh Halfpenny, Nick Cudd etc, all ignored by their region and really came good else where because they wanted to.

The players may well be coming from the Valleys, but that is probably true with a fair % of people employed in Cardiff in every profession too. Does that mean we should all be saying that businesses should pull out of Cardiff and relocate to Ponty, Merthyr, etc?

Bluedragon wrote:I am a cardiffian and a Blues fan. Not a biased and bitter ex Celtic warriors fan. just sayin.

That is untrue, I bet I go to watch more Blues games than you do.

Bluedragon wrote:kristian dacey ? alex cuthbert ? leigh halfpenny ? scott andrews ?

Kristian Dacey - Merthyr Tydfil or valleys
Alex Cuthbert - England
Leigh Halfpenny - Gorseinon
Scott Andrews - Church Village or valleys

So Cardiff had nothing to do with these people until they signed them, also Ellis Jenkins is from Church Village, which is just North of the Pontypridd area, so he is from the valleys as well.

As I have said the amount of players that come from the valleys is astonishing, Cardiff Blues might want to be a stand alone team, but without the valleys they would be a lot worst than they are now. I would love for the Mid Glamorgan valleys to be incorporated into another region, just to see how the mighty Cardiff RFC would then manage.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Does that mean we should all be saying that businesses should pull out of Cardiff and relocate to Ponty, Merthyr, etc?

Yes please.

At least Merthyr seems to have some sort of business plan and sustainability, Ponty very publicly bites the hand that feeds them and seem very self entitled.

Cardiff Valleys

Like London Welsh.

A Valleys 'Region' based in Cardiff.

That's it settled.

My consultancy fee to be left in my usual Swiss bank account.....

LordDowlais wrote:I would love for the Mid Glamorgan valleys to be incorporated into another region, just to see how the mighty Cardiff RFC would then manage.

If they are producing that many welsh stars then it would be good for them to go to the Ospreys. After all the Ospreys are supposedly the only region that are a region (not my belief but the well quoted stuff on here), so they should find that they are accepted and embraced. And also with the Ospreys being the strongest region in Wales, the inclusion of even more quality players, should see them in a position to compete in Europe too.

Personally I would rather Ponty strike up a relationship with an English club like Bath or Gloucester and Ponty youth players go into that academy and in return the English club helps out with Ponty. Kind of like what South Wales Scorpions have with Wigan rugby league as I even know a lad who has gone up to the Wigan academy from the Scorpions youth

But surely financially and politically you have to have a top level side playing out of the capital regardless of anything else.

Irish Londoner wrote:But surely financially and politically you have to have a top level side playing out of the capital regardless of anything else.

There's nothing wrong with them playing in the capital, they just should not be a stand alone club, they do not have enough clubs producing qlty players to sustain a region of their own.

Steffan, but what would the benefit be for the English clubs in this -why would English clubs want to develop Welsh talent for Welsh benefit, at best they could take on some academy level players if they declared for England to keep within RFU funding rules, but then the Welsh rugby press would be full of stories of "English clubs stealing Welsh starlets"....

Cardiff is a footballing city anyway. The joke attendances at the Cardiff City Stadium compared to Cardiff City football team says it all

Irish Londoner wrote:Steffan, but what would the benefit be for the English clubs in this -why would English clubs want to develop Welsh talent for Welsh benefit, at best they could take on some academy level players if they declared for England to keep within RFU funding rules, but then the Welsh rugby press would be full of stories of "English clubs stealing Welsh starlets"....

Those Welsh players would play for them that would be the benefit

I have no worries about the Welsh rugby press they are a joke as it is. More Welsh players would benefit from playing in the English Premiership as it's the highest level in the UK & IRE if not the best league in Europe

Steffan wrote:Personally I would rather Ponty strike up a relationship with an English club like Bath or Gloucester and Ponty youth players go into that academy and in return the English club helps out with Ponty. Kind of like what South Wales Scorpions have with Wigan rugby league as I even know a lad who has gone up to the Wigan academy from the Scorpions youth

Just doesn't make sense to be honest, but then again, you Ponty fans rarely make sense.

The Saint wrote:

Steffan wrote:Personally I would rather Ponty strike up a relationship with an English club like Bath or Gloucester and Ponty youth players go into that academy and in return the English club helps out with Ponty. Kind of like what South Wales Scorpions have with Wigan rugby league as I even know a lad who has gone up to the Wigan academy from the Scorpions youth

Just doesn't make sense to be honest, but then again, you Ponty fans rarely make sense.

Ah well there we are then

It should work both ways, Pontypridd should embrace regionalism, and Cardiff Blues should not be a stand alone club with the name Cardiff in their title.

Steffan wrote:

The Saint wrote:

Steffan wrote:Personally I would rather Ponty strike up a relationship with an English club like Bath or Gloucester and Ponty youth players go into that academy and in return the English club helps out with Ponty. Kind of like what South Wales Scorpions have with Wigan rugby league as I even know a lad who has gone up to the Wigan academy from the Scorpions youth

Just doesn't make sense to be honest, but then again, you Ponty fans rarely make sense.

Ah well there we are then

What you've highlighted is exactly what happen now, except the Ponty youth, etc go to the Blues academy (where they actually get developed, not the other way around LD).

THe rugby league... That always made me laugh. Crusaders were originally based in Bridgend and all the 'disenfranchised' Bridgend folk jumped on board despite probably never having watched a game of league in their life. Crusaders moved to Rodney Parade (I think for financial reasons or ground requirements at the time) and all the disenfranchised fans came in tow... Kind of blows the disenfranchised thing out of the water if you ask me.

The Saint wrote:What you've highlighted is exactly what happen now, except the Ponty youth, etc go to the Blues academy (where they actually get developed, not the other way around LD).

I am not saying any different, all I am saying is that Cardiff would never survive as a stand alone region, because the clubs in Cardiff do not supply enough quality players, if it were not for the valleys I do not know where Cardiff Blues would get all there players from.

The Saint wrote:Crusaders moved to Rodney Parade (I think for financial reasons or ground requirements at the time) and all the disenfranchised fans came in tow... Kind of blows the disenfranchised thing out of the water if you ask me

Celtic Crusaders never played at Rodney Parade. Where the hell you got that from I'll never know

Just shows how little you know about them (and other stuff for that matter)

Steffan wrote:

The Saint wrote:Crusaders moved to Rodney Parade (I think for financial reasons or ground requirements at the time) and all the disenfranchised fans came in tow... Kind of blows the disenfranchised thing out of the water if you ask me

Celtic Crusaders never played at Rodney Parade. Where the hell you got that from I'll never know

Just shows how little you know about them (and other stuff for that matter)

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/rugby-league-celtic-crusaders-move-2089626

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Steffan wrote:

The Saint wrote:Crusaders moved to Rodney Parade (I think for financial reasons or ground requirements at the time) and all the disenfranchised fans came in tow... Kind of blows the disenfranchised thing out of the water if you ask me

Celtic Crusaders never played at Rodney Parade. Where the hell you got that from I'll never know

Just shows how little you know about them (and other stuff for that matter)

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/rugby-league-celtic-crusaders-move-2089626

Did this actually happen though ? I am sure I remember that this all fell through and they kept playing at the Brewery Field.

Steffan wrote:

Irish Londoner wrote:Steffan, but what would the benefit be for the English clubs in this -why would English clubs want to develop Welsh talent for Welsh benefit, at best they could take on some academy level players if they declared for England to keep within RFU funding rules, but then the Welsh rugby press would be full of stories of "English clubs stealing Welsh starlets"....

Those Welsh players would play for them that would be the benefit

I have no worries about the Welsh rugby press they are a joke as it is. More Welsh players would benefit from playing in the English Premiership as it's the highest level in the UK & IRE if not the best league in Europe

The issue with that is the English clubs have non-English qualified limits. So every Welsh lad that plays for them, who is not English Qualified (birth, parents or grandparents) will count as against the English club. Also from a Welsh point of view, say a lad does get into the Glaws first XV, then there is a chance that they will turn down playing for Wales or the Welsh U20s (see the Bristol lads that did it this year), as it would make them NEQ and put their chances of playing there at risk.

LordDowlais wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Steffan wrote:

The Saint wrote:Crusaders moved to Rodney Parade (I think for financial reasons or ground requirements at the time) and all the disenfranchised fans came in tow... Kind of blows the disenfranchised thing out of the water if you ask me

Celtic Crusaders never played at Rodney Parade. Where the hell you got that from I'll never know

Just shows how little you know about them (and other stuff for that matter)

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/rugby-league-celtic-crusaders-move-2089626

Did this actually happen though ? I am sure I remember that this all fell through and they kept playing at the Brewery Field.

http://www1.skysports.com/rugby-league/live/match/20670/report

Rhinos run riot in Newport

Full-back Webb helps himself to four tries against depleted opponents

Leeds moved to the top of the engage Super League table on points difference after crushing Celtic Crusaders 68-0 at Rodney Parade..........

I think Mr. Steffan may need to apologise to Mr Saint.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Steffan wrote:

The Saint wrote:Crusaders moved to Rodney Parade (I think for financial reasons or ground requirements at the time) and all the disenfranchised fans came in tow... Kind of blows the disenfranchised thing out of the water if you ask me

Celtic Crusaders never played at Rodney Parade. Where the hell you got that from I'll never know

Just shows how little you know about them (and other stuff for that matter)

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/rugby-league-celtic-crusaders-move-2089626

Did this actually happen though ? I am sure I remember that this all fell through and they kept playing at the Brewery Field.

http://www1.skysports.com/rugby-league/live/match/20670/report

Rhinos run riot in Newport

Full-back Webb helps himself to four tries against depleted opponents

Leeds moved to the top of the engage Super League table on points difference after crushing Celtic Crusaders 68-0 at Rodney Parade..........

I think Mr. Steffan may need to apologise to Mr Saint.

Ok yeah they played one token game there against Leeds. Hardly a "move" is it

Steffan, your words were "Celtic Crusaders never played at Rodney Parade. Where the hell you got that from I'll never know. Just shows how little you know about them (and other stuff for that matter)" and you were wrong. They did play there, and Saint was right.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Steffan, your words were "Celtic Crusaders never played at Rodney Parade. Where the hell you got that from I'll never know.  Just shows how little you know about them (and other stuff for that matter)"  and you were wrong.  They did play there, and Saint was right.

Yes ok Mr Pedantic I was wrong about them never playing there as they did play one whopping game there

They never moved there though

Oh well, SS is right, fair do's. But I still stand by my initial point, Cardiff cannot survive as a stand alone region, they need the valleys, so it is a two way street, embrace regionalism, drop the name Cardiff from the title and play in a kit more akin to ALL the teams in the region, not the colours of Cardiff RFC.

and unfortunately the ones with the money will dictate that there will always be cardiff in the name and always play in cardiff colours

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Steffan, your words were "Celtic Crusaders never played at Rodney Parade. Where the hell you got that from I'll never know.  Just shows how little you know about them (and other stuff for that matter)"  and you were wrong.  They did play there, and Saint was right.

I was wrong about them never playing a game there but both you and Saint suggested that they did a full on move there

The Saint wrote:Crusaders moved to Rodney Parade (I think for financial reasons or ground requirements at the time) and all the disenfranchised fans came in tow...

Unless you are classing one token game as 'a "move" for financial reasons or ground requirements where all the disenfranchised fans came in tow' I fail to see which part of what Saint said is actually right

Steffan wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Steffan, your words were "Celtic Crusaders never played at Rodney Parade. Where the hell you got that from I'll never know.  Just shows how little you know about them (and other stuff for that matter)"  and you were wrong.  They did play there, and Saint was right.

I was wrong about them never playing a game there but both you and Saint suggested that they did a full on move there

The Saint wrote:Crusaders moved to Rodney Parade (I think for financial reasons or ground requirements at the time) and all the disenfranchised fans came in tow...

Unless you are classing one token game as 'a "move" for financial reasons or ground requirements where all the disenfranchised fans came in tow' I fail to see which part of what Saint said is actually right

Dammit. So You were wrong, and so was Saint. But then that means I was wrong for saying Saint was right, well unless someone can rock up with attendance figures and show that the 'disenfranchised' did follow (maybe they even followed up to the Racecourse??). Agghhh, this is why welsh rugby sucks, no matter what you say or do your always going to be wrong

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Steffan wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Steffan, your words were "Celtic Crusaders never played at Rodney Parade. Where the hell you got that from I'll never know.  Just shows how little you know about them (and other stuff for that matter)"  and you were wrong.  They did play there, and Saint was right.

I was wrong about them never playing a game there but both you and Saint suggested that they did a full on move there

The Saint wrote:Crusaders moved to Rodney Parade (I think for financial reasons or ground requirements at the time) and all the disenfranchised fans came in tow...

Unless you are classing one token game as 'a "move" for financial reasons or ground requirements where all the disenfranchised fans came in tow' I fail to see which part of what Saint said is actually right

Dammit.  So You were wrong, and so was Saint.  But then that means I was wrong for saying Saint was right, well unless someone can rock up with attendance figures and show that the 'disenfranchised' did follow (maybe they even followed up to the Racecourse??).  Agghhh, this is why welsh rugby sucks, no matter what you say or do your always going to be wrong

I went to some Crusaders games myself and went to a crucial game up in Wrexham although that was by chance as I was visiting my mate in Shewsbury and we popped over the border for the afternoon to watch them

GavinDragon wrote:and unfortunately the ones with the money will dictate that there will always be cardiff in the name and always play in cardiff colours

Yep, and then you will have people on here telling people from Pontypridd that they should go and support THAT side as it is their region, it sucks @rse.

I honestly think Ponty should try and join the English pyramid, it is the only way they will realise their potential

LordDowlais wrote:

GavinDragon wrote:and unfortunately the ones with the money will dictate that there will always be cardiff in the name and always play in cardiff colours

Yep, and then you will have people on here telling people from Pontypridd that the should go and support THAT side, it sucks @rse

I was thinking that myself LD. It's like...'Welsh rugby is in an unfortunate situation where moneymen are being allowed to dictate how things are run and are keeping a "region" totally limited to being a franchise associated with only one club...but every other club in that region should support this unfortunate dictatorship

Only in Welsh rugby hey...

GavinDragon wrote:I honestly think Ponty should try and join the English pyramid, it is the only way they will realise their potential

I would love that to happen. Now you're talking

surely it is not beyong the realms of possibility. Yes there is some World Rugby regulation that PhillBB bangs on about but surely if the RFU were willing, Ponty paid their way and obviously started at an appropriate level why not?