Ireland's Rugby World Cup 2015 Thread - "You're wrong on several counts..."

[Don Alfonso]

First topic message reminder :

Alright.

The time for whinging at the Welsh, sniping at the Scots and educating the English is done. Playtime is over. The bitterness is dialled up to ten, the eye-patches producing metaphorical one-eyedness are donned, chips are placed on shoulders – it’s time for some proper, down n’ dirty, internecine bickering.

Who will go to the 2015 Rugby World Cup to play for Ireland?

Who should go?



The players have the following opportunities to shine like a diamond for Joe:


Emerging Ireland Tbilisi Cup

Emerging Italy v Emerging Ireland
Saturday 13th June 14:00 BST

Uruguay v Emerging Ireland
Wednesday 17th June 14:00 BST

Georgia v Emerging Ireland
Sunday 21st June 16:00 BST


Ireland Matches

Wales v Ireland
Millennium Stadium
Saturday 8th August

Ireland v Scotland
Aviva Stadium
Saturday 15th August

Ireland v Wales
Aviva Stadium
Saturday 29th August

England v Ireland
Twickenham Stadium
Saturday 5th September


31 players.

A 17/14 split? Has Madigan played himself off the plane? Do Ruddock or Trimble have enough time to make it back? Can Rory’s darts be trusted? Does POM spend too much time on the wing? Are Payne and Strauss “Irish” enough? Why is Reddan there? Has Zebo been by-passed? Is Cave too slow? Why Felix Jones?

HAVE AT THEE!

[Submachine]

Theres talk of White starting at 3 with Furlong on the bench. I think if thats the case then we will bring 6 props to the world cup. Bent needs to show he can shore up a scrum at TH against a first choice international front row.
If Bent isn't in the squad for this game then I don't think he travels.

Disagree with that, he played tight head off the bench in the first game, loose head in the second, and then its probably more important he play loose head again since we're looking at bringing Healy who is still a doubt.

I think he will travel as the third choice LH if Healy is fit or not. However if Moore is ruled out and with White unproven at international level I don't see him as a fifth, cover both sides option. If Furlong has a good scrummaging performance I think he travels as a third specialist TH even though he is very inexperienced. In my view...

All pops fit:
Healy, McGrath, Bent, Ross, Moore

Healy ruled out
McGrath, Kilcoyne, Bent, Ross, Moore

Moore ruled out
Healy, McGrath, Kilcoyne, Ross, White, Furlong. Bent looses out as Kilcoyne is higher up the pecking order of specialist LH's

Both Healy and Moore ruled out
McGrath, Kilcoyne, Bent, Ross, White, Furlong

I think Bent is ahead of Furlong at tight head- he's probably getting more than 40 minutes at tight head for Leinster on Friday whereas he'd not be getting more than a cameo if on the bench.

What is the rationale in putting Furlong squad against wales? I think it's to provide cover as a third choice tight head if Moore does not make the cut. In that scenario I don't think Bent will be taken as an ambiprop and there will be 6 specists instead. We know Joe doesn't give away cheap caps. So what is your thinking?

[Notch]

I just explained the rationale in the post you are responding to. I think they want Bent to get more game time than he would be getting off the bench and Furlong is who's left in camp. Bent will get to play almost a whole game at tight head, and not just get a late cameo in the position.

[theslosty]

I appreciate I'm going against the grain here but I don't understand what Trimble has done to be so far ahead of Bowe?

Trimble has undoubtedly improved his game but his kicking would still be a major concern for me and Bowe is a far more rounded player.
More importantly, Trimble has barely played a game in the last 18 months (correct me if I'm wrong). He had a strong tournament in the 2014 6N but so did Dave Kearney who hasn't thrown off his "Daverage" tag. At the time Trimble wasn't seen as a 1st choice starter - I'm a bit confused as to why perceptions have changed since then.

Bowe had an average tournament in the 2015 6N (so did Zebo) but was crucial in the wins over SA and Australia a few months prior. Contrary to popular opinion I thought his form was strong for Ulster at the end of the season. Granted, he has lost a touch of pace but still looked very dangerous against Munster.

Essentially, Trimble's reputation has sky rocketed in a period where he did extremely little.

[Notch]

Trimble has been better than Bowe at pretty much everything- including kicking- since Bowe came back from the Ospreys. Its not some sudden revelation thats happened while he was away injured. Your talking about one player outshining the other at provincial level and at international level going back about three years. Bowe hasn't been at the level Trimble has been able to consistently display when fit for a long time.

When you say Bowe is a far more rounded player, I don't think thats true any more. I think every area Bowe was better than him, he's caught up. Handling, passing, fielding the high ball, contesting the high ball, kicking- he's closed the gap.

[Submachine]

I just explained the rationale in the post you are responding to. I think they want Bent to get more game time than he would be getting off the bench and Furlong is who's left in camp. Bent will get to play almost a whole game at tight head, and not just get a late cameo in the position.

OK. Then why not start with Bent for Ireland with White on the bench? Like I said, I don't think Joe gives cheap caps. If he is to travel as a TH and White and Furlong stay at home he surely should start a game at TH ahead of White?
Anyway only a few days until we know for sure.

[Notch]

I just explained the rationale in the post you are responding to. I think they want Bent to get more game time than he would be getting off the bench and Furlong is who's left in camp. Bent will get to play almost a whole game at tight head, and not just get a late cameo in the position.

OK. Then why not start with Bent for Ireland with White on the bench? Like I said, I don't think Joe gives cheap caps. If he is to travel as a TH and White and Furlong stay at home he surely should start a game at TH ahead of White?
Anyway only a few days until we know for sure.

Well, I don't think Bent is ever going to be second choice tight head. White is second choice if Moore doesn't make it- maybe even if he has a good game he takes that spot whatever happens with Moore. If Moore goes and a tight head has to pull out more than 48 hours before a game I see White coming straight into the squad and leapfrogging Bent. If it's within 48 hours of the game or of the player is rated as likely to recover and play some part later on then that's when Bent will cover tight head.

You say there's no cheap caps, but this is a World Cup warm-up series. The entire point of having four games is so players who aren't even going to be ranked as being amongst our 31 best players get a chance to stake a claim. I wouldn't say those are cheap caps but I do think there are players in the squad on Saturday that won't be making the cut, and guys who would not be considered for Six Nations or Autumn Tests have been picked already.

[theslosty]

In my eyes Bowe is undisputably the more "rounded" player - I couldn't name one weakness in his game whereas I don't think Trimble has the same standard of kicking, handling or intelligence.

I don't often endorse him but Warren Gatland didn't see Trimble outshining Bowe - Gats was extremely keen to get Bowe into his Test side meanwhile Trimble was left at home behind the likes of Christian Wade and Shane Williams.

Prior to the 2014 6N Trimble had had a dreadful international career - I couldn't believe he had 50 caps. I've heard him say that he always felt nervous in the green shirt. I don't deny he had a good tournament but some of the praise was going way over the top - many saw him as Player of the 6N over the likes of Sexton. Apart from a well taken try against France you couldn't separate him between D Kearney. Added to that you're judging Trimble on a stretch of 5 games against the consistently excellent career Bowe has had.

In the time since Bowe returned from the Ospreys Trimble has been injured more often than not.

[Notch]

No, I disagree with that. I think there is no evidence at all Bowe is better at any of those things. For many years he was, definitely. But in the last few years I can't see where you can get that from. Also, no he's not been injured most of the time. He's been injured since November. Not for 2 and a half years before that. Bowe has been injured in that time more than Trimble and maybe that is part of the reason for his indifferent form. When you say the praise was over the top, do you include him being voted as the Players Player of the Year by his fellow professionals in that? Also you're saying I'm judging him on five games when I've actually seen nearly every game he's ever played for Ulster and Ireland. I can say the same thing about Bowe in fact. That seems like an unfair comment. I've been watching both players since they made their breakthroughs. For years one was better than the other and I said it then; now the shoe is on the other foot.

For a long time we were remarking upon Trimble being left out for Ireland in favour of Bowe and Gilroy when every week he was outshining them in Ulster colours. It was extremely telling that he was consistently picked in his favoured 14 shirt, pushing Bowe to the left wing. People used to point to his test performances as evidence he couldn't step up and disregarded the fact he was the form winger in Ulster, because it was just provincial form. Well, that provincial form was eventually recognised by Schmidt and he it was replicated at international level. He's moved on from a period where he didn't look comfortable in the green shirt to being extremely comfortable.

I don't deny Bowe has been excellent for most of his career, but also I can't in all honesty say he has been performing to the same level for Ireland or Ulster since even before that Lions tour. He's not been able to keep the same work rate up as Trimble, popping up less in phase play, his handling has gone way downhill with a much higher error rate when taking the ball on the burst or contesting in the air. Too often passes that should be taken into the bread basket are knocked on, 50/50 balls in the air are palmed back and not authoritatively claimed. He's looked like a player who hasn't been able to muster the same level of confidence as he could when he was genuinely grabbing games by the scruff of the neck from 14. He was one of the best wingers in the world. Now, he's in with a good chance of missing out on this World Cup squad. He doesn't offer the defensive impact or work rate of Trimble, the pace of Earls or Zebo, the solidity under the high ball of Jones, the Kearneys or Trimble again. There is a brilliant footballing brain there and he is still a quality player; it's just very competitive and its hard to make the squad when you're not playing your best rugby. He's not turned into a bad player overnight; not one bit. But he's not approached the form he's had earlier in his career in that time either.

For me, its a tale of two players who came through the Ulster Academy at the same time and peaked at different points of their career. Bowe peaked several years ago; Trimble is at his peak now. I think form matters in selection and if we were to pick Bowe ahead of Trimble it would significantly weaken us as a team.

[Marshes]

In my eyes Bowe is undisputably the more "rounded" player - I couldn't name one weakness in his game whereas I don't think Trimble has the same standard of kicking, handling or intelligence.

I don't often endorse him but Warren Gatland didn't see Trimble outshining Bowe - Gats was extremely keen to get Bowe into his Test side meanwhile Trimble was left at home behind the likes of Christian Wade and Shane Williams.

Prior to the 2014 6N Trimble had had a dreadful international career - I couldn't believe he had 50 caps. I've heard him say that he always felt nervous in the green shirt. I don't deny he had a good tournament but some of the praise was going way over the top - many saw him as Player of the 6N over the likes of Sexton. Apart from a well taken try against France you couldn't separate him between D Kearney. Added to that you're judging Trimble on a stretch of 5 games against the consistently excellent career Bowe has had.

In the time since Bowe returned from the Ospreys Trimble has been injured more often than not.

He took his try well but he also made the critical break from Sexton's try against France. He also had good games against Wales, Italy, and Scotland, scoring against the last two. I feel Ireland lacked a real spark on the wings without him this year, only really saw any of it when Fitzgerald played against Scotland in the 6N. Like I have said before Trimble has been the only winger under Schmidt to consistently combine solid defence with a significant linebreaking threat, the others have been mostly solid in defence but haven't really sparkled in attack. The concern with Trimble being out wass whether he would come back with the form he was in prior to his injury, and his cameo against Wales was very positive. Fully fit for me he is the first winger on the plane, if he has a good showing for Ulster he should go.

Bowe had this year's 6N to really nail down his place and while he didn't do himself any harm, he was visibly not the same threat he has been in previous years. I think he has actually lost a significant yard of pace in the last two years. But he is still one of the best finishers Ireland have when given the chance, so I'd have him in the team. Between him and Trimble though, for me it is the latter.

[thebandwagonsociety]

Fitz was lucky getting that game against Scotland. I think any of our wingers would have had a field day lining up against that part of the Scottish defensive line on that particular day.

I'm a huge fan of Fitz. though he seems to get unmitigated praise for that game above and beyond what I think he should be getting.

[Marshes]

I agree most wingers would have had a handier time of it in that particular game, and we were set up to attack more, but you can only beat whats put out in front of you, and Fitz had a good game that day. I was more using it as example of how I think Trimble has been the most impressive of the wingers under Schmidt, in that I cant think of anyone specifically aside from Trimble and Fitzgerald who looked dangerous

[theslosty]

No, I disagree with that. I think there is no evidence at all Bowe is better at any of those things. For many years he was, definitely. But in the last few years I can't see where you can get that from. Also, no he's not been injured most of the time. He's been injured since November. Not for 2 and a half years before that. Bowe has been injured in that time more than Trimble and maybe that is part of the reason for his indifferent form. When you say the praise was over the top, do you include him being voted as the Players Player of the Year by his fellow professionals in that? Also you're saying I'm judging him on five games when I've actually seen nearly every game he's ever played for Ulster and Ireland. I can say the same thing about Bowe in fact. That seems like an unfair comment. I've been watching both players since they made their breakthroughs. For years one was better than the other and I said it then; now the shoe is on the other foot.

I most certainly include the IRUPA award - I can see I'm fighting the consensus view. The other remark about judging Trimble over 5 games was in response to your own comment saying Trimble had been "outshining Bowe at International level" for a number of years - those are the only 5 games you could possibly be looking at, given his lack of chances and poor form under Kidney.

For a long time we were remarking upon Trimble being left out for Ireland in favour of Bowe and Gilroy when every week he was outshining them in Ulster colours. It was extremely telling that he was consistently picked in his favoured 14 shirt, pushing Bowe to the left wing. People used to point to his test performances as evidence he couldn't step up and disregarded the fact he was the form winger in Ulster, because it was just provincial form. Well, that provincial form was eventually recognised by Schmidt and he it was replicated at international level. He's moved on from a period where he didn't look comfortable in the green shirt to being extremely comfortable.

The first comment doesn't make any sense to me - in Bowe's first return season at Ulster he was injured for the main chunk of the season but gave a big lift to the team when he was fit again. I can qualify that as he was picked by Gatland on the basis of his Ulster form. I'm not sure if Trimble was also injured for the 2013 6N but Gilroy was given his chance and took it pretty well given the circumstances. Gilroy has struggled since then so you can remove him from this equation.

Trimble and D Kearney were only picked as they were the last men standing for the 2014 6N - Bowe, Zebo, Earls, Fitz, McFadden and Gilroy were all injured. Trimble wasn't picked by Schmidt as a genuine first choice - for the previous Autumn series it was Bowe and McFadden/Kearney.

I don't deny Bowe has been excellent for most of his career, but also I can't in all honesty say he has been performing to the same level for Ireland or Ulster since even before that Lions tour. He's not been able to keep the same work rate up as Trimble, popping up less in phase play, his handling has gone way downhill with a much higher error rate when taking the ball on the burst or contesting in the air. Too often passes that should be taken into the bread basket are knocked on, 50/50 balls in the air are palmed back and not authoritatively claimed. He's looked like a player who hasn't been able to muster the same level of confidence as he could when he was genuinely grabbing games by the scruff of the neck from 14. He was one of the best wingers in the world. Now, he's in with a good chance of missing out on this World Cup squad. He doesn't offer the defensive impact or work rate of Trimble, the pace of Earls or Zebo, the solidity under the high ball of Jones, the Kearneys or Trimble again. There is a brilliant footballing brain there and he is still a quality player; it's just very competitive and its hard to make the squad when you're not playing your best rugby. He's not turned into a bad player overnight; not one bit. But he's not approached the form he's had earlier in his career in that time either.

For me, its a tale of two players who came through the Ulster Academy at the same time and peaked at different points of their career. Bowe peaked several years ago; Trimble is at his peak now. I think form matters in selection and if we were to pick Bowe ahead of Trimble it would significantly weaken us as a team.

I can accept Bowe no longer possesses the outright pace he once had but he is still a quality finisher and picks good good lines - I would say he is equal to Trimble in this regard. His form was actually pretty spectacular at the end of Kidney's tenure so to judge his form against that is harsh. Nevertheless, he had strong performances against SA and Australia in particular. The way we played this year clearly wasn't designed for exciting wing play.
It's a minor point but I'm a fan of the knock downs. He's turning 50/50 contests into favourable ones. It worked extremely well against France this year when coupled with Sexton's accurate kicking. If Schmidt was against them I've no doubt we wouldn't be seeing them.
The third bolded comment I don't necessarily disagree with but Bowe doesn't have an obvious weakness like the other wingers do.

The thoughts you have on Bowe would resonate more strongly with me on Kearney. I should make it clear I think Trimble is a perfectly valid choice for the squad and indeed the XV. What I am wary of is the free ride Trimble is receiving on the back of extremely little. Seriously, even the absolute stalwarts in the Ireland team have their flaws cut open on here - there is a barely a word said against Trimble.

Marshes
As far as I remember Trimble was put through for that break against France and gave the final pass to BOD too early nearly blowing the chance. The tries against Italy and Scotland could have been finished by any International back, let's be honest.
The cameo vs Wales was positive but I'm just struggling with the lack of scrutiny on a player has been out for over a year. No other player seems so exempt from criticism, even POC.

[FecklessRogue]

Last time we saw Trimble get a run in the team he was excellent. Last time Bowe got a run the team he was not great at all. That's what people are basing it on. Bowe at his peak would be our best 14 of the pro era. But I think he's in decline. He'll be 32 in February and has a lot of miles on the clock.

You could still justify bringing Bowe over Trimble because of his experience, intelligence, versatility and pedigree though, but not on his recent form.

[Rory_Gallagher]

To describe Andrew Trimble as receiving praise on the back of doing little is insane. That is honestly one of the most bizarre comments I have read on here. The guy has been the most consistent, solid in defence and dangerous winger Ireland have had over the past number of years.

If he is fully fit he is one of the first names on the team sheet. He is the exact type of player that fits the Schmidt game plan.

[Notch]

Intelligence and versatility, he has. Experience too; but I feel experience and pedigree might just be going by reputation. I just feel if Dave Kearney plays well on Saturday, he could be shaded out. Kearney replaced him against Scotland and improved the team.

It's a hyper-competitive area. Someone very good is going to miss out, and unlike most others I rate Dave Kearney quite highly.

[theslosty]

I find the last two comments equally bizarre. Trimble is as much a form pick as Cian Healy is. Even Healy had an outing in the 6N and played against Bath and Toulon.

I don't know if we've been watching different players but Trimble was a total liability for Ireland before Schmidt arrived. So yes, I do think he is receiving a lot of praise for very little. He has essentially only had 5 good games in green. I'm at a complete loss as to how a player who has played less than 40 minutes in the past 12/18 months is "one of the first names on the team sheet."

[FecklessRogue]

I'd have no problem with Kearney in the squad, he rarely puts a foot wrong. We don't have any Julian Savea's but we have plenty of guys who are very good. It's not really an area of concern for me.

Healy not making it is my biggest worry. Why aren't people not fretting more about it? He's one of only a handful of real X-factor players we have. Massive loss if he doesn't make it. Moore would be a big loss too because Ross can't play 80 minutes of every game.

[Notch]

That's nonsense. To say he had 50 poor games; absolute nonsense. He was inconsistent, not consistently bad, and if he was consistently bad he wouldn't at this stage of his career have 50 caps in the first place. I can point to at least 10 good games he had in green before Schmidt off the top of my head. I can point to poor games as well and plenty of games that just passed him by but let's not rewrite history for the sake of an argument.

Its also factually wrong to state he has had less than 40 minutes in 12/18 months given he was injured in November (10 months ago) and had played more than 40 minutes for Ulster at the start of last season, just as it was factually incorrect to say he's spent most of the time since Bowe came back from Ospreys injured. I mean, the rest is differing opinions but these are facts and if you can't even be bothered to get those right...

He was a player with the potential to be a top class international and now that he has achieved that and has a coach that has confidence in him, you can see he has confidence in himself. As for Healy; there is a reason that he is being allowed so long to prove his fitness and the same is true for Trimble. And that reason is that these coaches have had them play to a world class standard under them and trust them to be able to do the same if fit.

[Artful_Dodger]

I'd have no problem with Kearney in the squad, he rarely puts a foot wrong. We don't have any Julian Savea's but we have plenty of guys who are very good. It's not really an area of concern for me.

Healy not making it is my biggest worry. Why aren't people not fretting more about it? He's one of only a handful of real X-factor players we have. Massive loss if he doesn't make it. Moore would be a big loss too because Ross can't play 80 minutes of every game.

Ross has nearly done just that, but I take your point. I think in McGrath we have someone who is actually not far off Healy in the scrum, but perhaps without the same dynamism around the pitch. Healy not making it would be a loss alright, but McGrath is really coming of age.

[Don Alfonso]

I think there's little serious, detailed discussion of Trimble's game. Go on any internet forum that discusses Irish rugby and you'll see endless analysis of others. Some have become hoary old cliches - Earls is our best finisher, Zebo has an X-factor and a big boot, Fitz has a great step and could easily play centre etc etc. A load of truisms, good and bad, about each of them. McFadden - strong, direct, no step, great goal-kicker etc. If someone is talking about Trimble, and they don't talk about his ability to intercept and pick off passes, or make a hit on man and ball to close down an attack, you know they haven't actually been watching him play. He is a superb reader of an opposition's attack, with a great sense of timing. Analysis of his game, in a bad or a good context, rarely goes beyond "he fits in well under Schmidt - he's prepared to hit rucks". Four years ago, he would have been dismissed as a gauche, lumbering journeyman next to the razzle-dazzle of Fitz etc.

Can you imagine the eating of his own words Gibbo from the original 606 would be doing?

That would make an interesting topic actually -who had we written off or had misplaced faith in?

[Guest]

I find the last two comments equally bizarre. Trimble is as much a form pick as Cian Healy is. Even Healy had an outing in the 6N and played against Bath and Toulon.

I don't know if we've been watching different players but Trimble was a total liability for Ireland before Schmidt arrived. So yes, I do think he is receiving a lot of praise for very little. He has essentially only had 5 good games in green. I'm at a complete loss as to how a player who has played less than 40 minutes in the past 12/18 months is "one of the first names on the team sheet."

thelosty, just about everyone disagrees with you for a reason. Trimble is a better player than Bowe now, full stop. He has been for at least the last couple of seasons. I honestly don't know how you can say some of the things you're saying. It's as if you're judging both Trimble and Bowe on form about 4 years ago. There have been games since then

[theslosty]

That's nonsense. To say he had 50 poor games; absolute nonsense. He was inconsistent, not consistently bad, and if he was consistently bad he wouldn't at this stage of his career have 50 caps in the first place. I can point to at least 10 good games he had in green before Schmidt off the top of my head. I can point to poor games as well and plenty of games that just passed him by but let's not rewrite history for the sake of an argument.

Its also factually wrong to state he has had less than 40 minutes in 12/18 months given he was injured in November (10 months ago) and had played more than 40 minutes for Ulster at the start of last season, just as it was factually incorrect to say he's spent most of the time since Bowe came back from Ospreys injured. I mean, the rest is differing opinions but these are facts and if you can't even be bothered to get those right...

He was a player with the potential to be a top class international and now that he has achieved that and has a coach that has confidence in him, you can see he has confidence in himself. As for Healy; there is a reason that he is being allowed so long to prove his fitness and the same is true for Trimble. And that reason is that these coaches have had them play to a world class standard under them and trust them to be able to do the same if fit.

Look, I don't think it's unfair to say Trimble was distinctly unimpressive for Ireland for a long time. He's admitted himself he underperformed. As for the injuries he has had a couple in each of the past few seasons - and of course I exaggerated but he didn't play any real competitive games last season, you'd have to go back to the defeats to Saracens and Leinster at the end of the prior season.

To be honest I don't have huge concerns over Trimble, I'm merely bemused how an injury hit player with only a handful of strong performances in the past is seen as a certain starter. If he can prove that 2014 stretch of games was not a blip then he has every right to challenge the first XV. That's where we differ - I think he has to do more than merely prove his fitness. The difference with someone like Healy is he has far more pedigree (3 HC trophies and Lions call up) and the competition in the back 3 is fiercer than it is at prop.

Quite simply I don't think Bowe's drop off in form has been has been as severe as some would make out. A strong Autumn series and led our much vaunted aerial game in the 6N. Ball in hand he had very limited opportunities but I might add he was the closest to breaking down the Welsh defence.

[theslosty]

I think there's little serious, detailed discussion of Trimble's game. Go on any internet forum that discusses Irish rugby and you'll see endless analysis of others. Some have become hoary old cliches - Earls is our best finisher, Zebo has an X-factor and a big boot, Fitz has a great step and could easily play centre etc etc. A load of truisms, good and bad, about each of them. McFadden - strong, direct, no step, great goal-kicker etc. If someone is talking about Trimble, and they don't talk about his ability to intercept and pick off passes, or make a hit on man and ball to close down an attack, you know they haven't actually been watching him play. He is a superb reader of an opposition's attack, with a great sense of timing. Analysis of his game, in a bad or a good context, rarely goes beyond "he fits in well under Schmidt - he's prepared to hit rucks". Four years ago, he would have been dismissed as a gauche, lumbering journeyman next to the razzle-dazzle of Fitz etc.

100% agreed. This is half the problem.

[Marshes]

I'd have no problem with Kearney in the squad, he rarely puts a foot wrong. We don't have any Julian Savea's but we have plenty of guys who are very good. It's not really an area of concern for me.

Healy not making it is my biggest worry. Why aren't people not fretting more about it? He's one of only a handful of real X-factor players we have. Massive loss if he doesn't make it. Moore would be a big loss too because Ross can't play 80 minutes of every game.

I have concerns about Healy not making it as well, but to be honest if he is going to be the nailed on starter when he is fit, he really needs to up his game from the last time we saw him out in the 6N. I thought his decision making in the loose was poor against England and Wales particularly, and at times it felt like he was trying to hit as hard as he could rather than think about what the best move was. It meant he knocked on, got injured or got isolated and turned over. McGrath is an able deputy but an on form Healy is one of our few "best in their position" players, so I hope he hits the ground running, because when he gets headless he can be a detriment to the team.

[FecklessRogue]

McGrath is a very able deputy. But I'd rather have Healy starting and McGrath off the bench for the last 20 minutes (or vice versa). Just having McGrath on his own is not the same when you're aiming to win 5 games in a row; which is what we need to make a semi final for the 1st time.

[the-goon]

Trimble for me is the best winger in Europe (as in European) nevermind Ulster.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Trimble for me is the best winger in Europe (as in European) nevermind Ulster.

He is the only Irish winger I feel totally confident about facing the likes of George North and coming out on top.

[Sin é]

.....The other remark about judging Trimble over 5 games was in response to your own comment saying Trimble had been "outshining Bowe at International level" for a number of years - those are the only 5 games you could possibly be looking at, given his lack of chances and poor form under Kidney.

Trimble was out of favour for a couple of years (2009-12) when the kicking game was in vogue. He was not able to kick (and it is still the poorest part of his game). He also used be targeted with high balls. He has improved all those aspects of his game. He also had a very poor try scoring record at international level (not Fitz poor though!)

[GunsGerms]

POC, Heaslip and Healy make Bakkies Bothas world cup dream team. No other NH player makes the list.

http://the42.ie/2296871

[Rory_Gallagher]

POC, Heaslip and Healy make Bakkies Bothas world cup dream team. No other NH player makes the list.

http://the42.ie/2296871

He has Cian Healy playing at tighthead prop.. and Morne Steyn at 10. Hard to take seriously.

[GunsGerms]

Morne Steyn has won a Lions series, three times Super rugby champion and a rugby championship and top 14 title. I think he has done ok for himself.

He also has the world record for most points for his team in an international game as the only points scorer for your team with 31 against NZ.

Personally I think he is still SAs best out half. Pollard and Lambie are quite over rated.

[thebandwagonsociety]

Picks 5 SA, 4 NZ players and 0 English players. Seems about right for a recent SA Test player.

[Rory_Gallagher]

He has certainly done very well, but he isn't going to be a star of this World Cup for obvious reasons, which is why his selection is ridiculous. Not only is he behind Pollard (who has the potential to finally turn the Springboks into a real attacking threat that rivals the All Blacks) and Lambie, but he also has every other reputable 10 who will be starting for their team to compete with.

It is a very bizarre selection, but maybe not even as bizarre as Healy at tighthead prop.

[Notch]

He has certainly done very well, but he isn't going to be a star of this World Cup for obvious reasons, which is why his selection is ridiculous. Not only is he behind Pollard (who has the potential to finally turn the Springboks into a real attacking threat that rivals the All Blacks) and Lambie, but he also has every other reputable 10 who will be starting for their team to compete with.

Former international in picking player he played with a lot over the last few years of his career shocker

[Rory_Gallagher]

True.

[Notch]

You should see Tommy Bowes World XV, its full of guys he played with- I was half-expecting Clive Ross to slip into the back row somewhere...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR7x1oKVme8

[theslosty]

You should see Tommy Bowes World XV, its full of guys he played with- I was half-expecting Clive Ross to slip into the back row somewhere...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR7x1oKVme8

No room for Trimble however

[Notch]

Well, he had to pick himself didn't he?

[profitius]

Trimble and Bowe scored tries for Ulster tonight. Good timing!

[theslosty]

Trying to predict the 14 backs who will go has become near impossible. Only Marmion, D'arcy, McFadden and Gilroy seem to be out of contention.
I think he would be a good utility option but Fitz may miss out again as you can never be confident he'll last even 60 minutes without injury. Starting Earls and Fitzgerald in the same backline can be and has been hugely problematic for Ireland.

[Notch]

I would go for;

Murray, Reddan, Boss
Sexton, Jackson, Madigan
Henshaw, Payne, Earls, Zebo, Bowe, Trimble, D. Kearney, R. Kearney

Feel bad for Fitzgerald missing out 2 World Cups in a row but just feel he hasn't done enough. Tempting to drop another back three player and take another centre. Bowe, Kearney or Trimble could miss out to Cave!

[eirebilly]

I would go for;

Murray, Reddan, Boss
Sexton, Jackson, Madigan
Henshaw, Payne, Earls, Zebo, Bowe, Trimble, D. Kearney, R. Kearney

Feel bad for Fitzgerald missing out 2 World Cups in a row but just feel he hasn't done enough. Tempting to drop another back three player and take another centre. Bowe, Kearney or Trimble could miss out to Cave!

Pretty much agree with this as i feel it will be JS's selection however, in a perfect world for me i would go for;

Murray, Reddan, Marmion
Sexton, Jackson, Hanrahan
Henshaw, Payne, Earls, Zebo, Jones, Trimble, D. Kearney, R. Kearney

Do not rate Boss at all and feel Marmion would be better.
Hanrahan (i know not even involved) is far better than Madigan in my opinion and i would have loved to see him involved. Will be after the RWC and i am still really disappointed that Munster let him go.
I would have Jones above Bowe as well. I do like a specialist 15 as cover and Bowe has not looked as good as he once was.

[Notch]

I think Jones ahead of Bowe may well actually happen. Hanrahan ahead of Madigan...

[eirebilly]

Its my dream and i am sticking to it Notch

Really think that Hanrahan is a far better impact player than Madigan and Madigan will ony be deployed as an impact sub i feel.

[Rory_Gallagher]

I think Cave has to go, that squad is severely lacking at centre. Well, for 12 at least. You could say there isn't one genuine 12 there, just players who have been moved there over the past year or so.

[Rory_Gallagher]

I wouldn't be surprised to see D'Arcy either.. it is between him and Cave at 12.

[eirebilly]

If Cave was to go, it would be at the cost of either Dave Kearney or Trimble, quite possible.

[Notch]

Or Bowe.

[eirebilly]

I think Bowe is going to be replaced by Jones so i didnt rekon him into the equation.

[maestegmafia]

Just watching Sporting Heros on Sky Sports with Keith Wood interviewing Willie John

Great show

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