UEFA Champions and Europa League 2015/16 Thread

[Dolphin Ziggler]

First topic message reminder :

It begins for the English today as West Ham face FC Lusitans in front of a sold out Upton Park this evening. The team will be a bit mixed. Randolph, O'Brien, Tomkins, Burke, Page. Jarvis, Oxford, Poyet, Amalfitano. Zarate, Sakho.

[Hero]

Martial you expensive little beauty

[Jermaine2015]

LvG has a quality CV, but how can he justify Rooney as a striker in place for Martial? Rooney seems to have lost that killer instinct.

[Hero]

LVG makes Wenger seem open to trying new things.

[Ent]

LVG makes Wenger seem open to trying new things.

He's tried 352, 442, 433 and 4231 with players in all sorts of positions. Don't think you can criticise a guy who plays fellaini as a striker of not trying new things.

Same slow build up mind.

[Hero]

The formations and players change, but the philosophy of possession and safety remains, barely is there ever a 'let's go for this' attitude, let's play into space for a player to run onto. It's balls to feet, probe, back to the centre and repeat until opposition is ground to submission/falls asleep through boredom.

[Ent]

Agreed but he's always played like that.

[Hero]

Case in point there. Utd had a throw in on the left wing level with CSKA's penalty area, the ball went through three passes to go back to Valencia in the right back role in his own half.

[Ent]

It's a results based game, Barca and bayern do that but they win all the time so it's ok.

We aren't as good to watch but suffocating teams out of games is a legitimate tactic, as much as it annoys most of us.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

It's a results based game, Barca and bayern do that but they win all the time so it's ok.

Youve kind of made Hero's point for him there

[GSC]

Bayern and Barca have incisiveness, United are more like Rodgers first year at Liverpool, pointless possession.

[Fernando]

Manchester City are facing a UEFA charge, because their fans boo the Champions League anthem.

LOL UEFA

[spencerclarke]

Winning or not a lot of these games are getting very boring with the 70%+ possession. I've been increasingly bored of matches over the last couple of years.

[Ent]

Agreed, clasico aside I haven't watched a barca game in years.

[socal1976]

I like watching Barca, I mean they aren't as bad as used to be with Suarez, Messi, and Neymar they are a bit more direct. Plus can't get enough of watching those three guys play off each other. I personally prefer a team that can play possession. I think even for example Swansea are fun to watch because of the way they have played in recent years. I mean know a bunch of sideways passes for 90 minutes isn't fun but typically these type of teams score some spectacular goals when a series of give goes or one touch passing comes off it can be very entertaining. I mean who would say Suarez' destruction of Luiz or Messi dancing around 5 Bilbao players to score the winner in the Copa Del Rey is not entertaining?

[socal1976]

In regards to United it boggles my mind has there been a team in recent memory that has spent the money United have on players and managers and still looked so poor, so often. For a team that has spent like 200 million pounds on players since Fergie has left and looked this average

[wadey101]

With Sevilla going to Man City and pretty much dominating does that not comprehensively prove that La Liga is a far better league than the PL.

People say that it's only Real and Barca that are far better than other teams but Sevilla are the (at best) 4th best team in Spain and have gone to the best team in England and should have won easily. We won't see any other English team go to Man City this season and dominate the game like that.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

With Sevilla going to Man City and pretty much dominating does that not comprehensively prove that La Liga is a far better league than the PL.

People say that it's only Real and Barca that are far better than other teams but Sevilla are the (at best) 4th best team in Spain and have gone to the best team in England and should have won easily. We won't see any other English team go to Man City this season and dominate the game like that.

No, not at all. First, they lost. Second, it was one game. Third, City were without their three most important players.

[wadey101]

I'm sorry no other pl teams will play as well as Sevilla did at man city this season, not utd not arsenal, watch city ease past utd missing their best players.

There is a reason city fail in Europe but do so well in the league and that's the fact spanish and German teams are currently better than their pl counterparts

[Hero]

In regards to United it boggles my mind has there been a team in recent memory that has spent the money United have on players and managers and still looked so poor, so often. For a team that has spent like 200 million pounds on players since Fergie has left and looked this average

As you well know I like to usually disagree with you, but I can't on this one. He's bringing in exciting players (Di Maria last year, Memphis this) then sapping the creativeness out of them. It's like buying a thoroughbred racehorse and sticking a cart on the back of it.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I'm sorry no other pl teams will play as well as Sevilla did at man city this season, not utd not arsenal, watch city ease past utd missing their best players.

There is a reason city fail in Europe but do so well in the league and that's the fact spanish and German teams are currently better than their pl counterparts

I wouldnt say that Sevilla are better than City. Or Arsenal. Possibly Man United and current Chelsea. They are known as over-achievers in Europe of the past few years, whilst City are the under-achievers, but still the important part here is they lost to that under-strength City.

I think their 3 best teams are probably in ruder health this year, but I don't think its some long term obvious issue. Its also major teams you are talking about. Better top 3 and better leagues are not the same thing. I don't think Spanish football is even flying at the moment, with Madrid 23/10 to win at PSG last night and grinding out the 0-0, Barca relatively unimpressive in Europe so far this season too. And Germany? Bayern aside, I'm not hugely impressed. Gotta remember that the season Dortmund have just had.

[lfc91]

Klopp out! No, but seriously, very poor game all round. If they didn't have a man sent off we would have struggled to get a draw. Seemed to have abandoned everything that was good from the Tottenham game and just reverted to type... Klopp certainly won't be happy with that.

Could do with a big improvement on Sunday.

[socal1976]

In regards to United it boggles my mind has there been a team in recent memory that has spent the money United have on players and managers and still looked so poor, so often. For a team that has spent like 200 million pounds on players since Fergie has left and looked this average

As you well know I like to usually disagree with you, but I can't on this one. He's bringing in exciting players (Di Maria last year, Memphis this) then sapping the creativeness out of them. It's like buying a thoroughbred racehorse and sticking a cart on the back of it.

I mean they have overhauled their whole team with stars Shaw, Herrera, Di Maria (gone), Fellaini, Falcao (gone), Mata, Martial, etc. and I still wonder why they seem so pedestrian out there every time I watch them. They do everything slow there attacks seem to take too long to develop and are too predictable. Rooney is a shell of himself. But can anyone think of a team that has bought so much and been so awful to watch?

[socal1976]

I'm sorry no other pl teams will play as well as Sevilla did at man city this season, not utd not arsenal, watch city ease past utd missing their best players.

There is a reason city fail in Europe but do so well in the league and that's the fact spanish and German teams are currently better than their pl counterparts

To be honest no English team right now is in the same league as the big three Munich, Barca, and Real. Barca and Real financially just have a set up in la liga and in Spain that puts them a step ahead of their competition. I also think latin players of quality from anywhere in the world want to end up there as the pinnacle. That being said I think if you look at the top 20 or 25 club teams in Europe in terms of ability I think a fair number of them maybe the most of any league would come from the EPL. Maybe not this year because the big clubs most are having problems, but in general over the long run that is how it would pan out. Some years La Liga is strong or Italy is weak or Germany or England or vice versa, the four big leagues are pretty comparable when you look over the long haul. With the exception being that first group of three which are just right now a super group within the superclubs, partially because of the set up of TV money in Spain and the complete ownership of Germany by Bayern. There is no number 2 team in Germany, or #3 club Spain even remotely close; the EPL is much more open. As for Sevilla, I have to agree with those that say you can't read too much into one match.

[monty junior]

Maybe but team's like Spurs or Liverpool who aren't even in the Champions league, even mid table teams like Stoke and Everton will take in considerably more in TV money than the likes of Sevilla, Valencia, Leverkusen and it doesn't take a genius to workout from that group who are better in Europe. They just play better more efficient football, the top 5 teams in Spain could all beat their English counterparts and would be favored to do so even with the money discrepancy in revenue and commercial income. BVB beat Bayern to two consecutive Bundesliga's but their performances actually worsened when they had more finance available, you have to be smart and not just overspend on mediocrity. My gripe is the PL is clearly not the best league anymore and hasn't been statistically for 5 years! What i would say is before 2013 the BL had 5 different champions in 10 years with Schalke finishing runners up twice, at no point did anyone claim it was the "best league in the world" despite comparable performances in Europe. In Spain their are more drubbing's, mainly because the top 3 teams are better than any other league but also because they don't just park and bus and try play football the right way. That's why they do so well in the EL when their superior technical skills surface after playing the top teams in Europe. Even Celta Vigo who were rock bottom by ten points in LL a few seasons back only went out on away goals from getting to the EL quarter finals, money isn't everything and moaning about financial disparity in other countries is a hiding to nothing when the PL teams are blitzed with ten of millions, yet still play dinosaur football when it counts.

You maybe can't read too much in to one match with Sevilla but how about back to back Europa League title's when they played beat a few teams comparable to Man City.

[socal1976]

I don't even buy the Europa league really as a competition I would not mind if it was scrapped and replaced with a European cup type format like in the past. The English teams underperform in Europa because I honestly believe that most fans of those clubs and their managements would prefer to finish higher in the league or get a chance at domestic cup with much less effort involved than flying out to Kazakhstan on Thursday.

I concede La liga is more technically gifted as I said that probably has a lot to do with the influx of latin American players and the language issue. But I think it cuts both ways. What other league has a 5th place team like Chelsea or Liverpool that could win the Champions League like what happened just a few years ago? Spain is ascendant right now but outside of Bayern, now that Dortmund has fallen off you don't see the other German teams doing anything. Usually Schalke, Leverkusen etc. these guys get hammered when they play a 3rd or 4th place English side in the group stages.

Spain is best at the moment but the situation is fluid and changes year in and year out. In the 90s the Italians were the best clubs in the world. In the 2000s you could say the EPL. Last few years it has been Spain. But usually you don't have as strong a third team in spain as Atletico under Simeone, so you are left in a typical year with a super strong top two being the best clubs in the world and then a bunch of good and gifted sides that just aren't anywhere as strong. Like I said, I don't think evidence exists that this is a long term trend. If anything with the EPL being the most expensive TV rights in the world for a domestic league if anything it is positioned well to remain one of the best leagues well into the future. But can't deny that it has been down the last couple of years or few years.

[Fernando]

Pep Guardiola is ready to make a beeline to the Premier League at the end of the season.
And Sportsmail understands the current Bayern Munich boss' preference is to manage in London.

The Spaniard's deal at the Allianz Arena expires at the end of the season and there remains uncertainty over whether he will stay in Bavaria.

And the former Barcelona chief has told pals he wants a move to England if he leaves Bayern next summer.

[Guest]

Not surprised. His style has never been truly adored in Germany with the fans & up to this point, has stagnated Bayern. Simply put, if he doesn't win the Champions League this season, his tenure in Germany would be a clear failure & his reputation will almost certainly take a hit, irrespective of him collecting multiple league titles & a domestic cup.

I'm guessing a deal must be in the pipeline with either Chelsea or Arsenal. I'd say he'd be more suited going to Man City.

[Ent]

The English attitude towards the Europa league is stupid, it's winnable, prestigious and provides cl football. Yet teams would prefer to tank it so they can try qualify for the champions league - if you can't cope with Europa league you can't cope with champions league.

Think milan won the cl as many times as the entire epl in the 00s.

Epl best league in Europe from 07-09 give or take, Germany briefly after that but back to being la liga once again.

[Fernando]

Sevilla 0-1 Citeh - Sterling

[Fernando]

Sevilla 0-2 Citeh - Fernandinho

[NickisBHAFC]

As it stands City are through.

1 down, 3 to go.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

United look sharp and on it. Rojo getting up and down well.

[Fernando]

Sevilla 1-2 Citeh - Tremoulinas

[Hammersmith harrier]

No idea how we haven't scored yet, Lingard and Rojo both with gilt edged chances.

[Fernando]

Sevilla 1-3 Citeh - Bony

[NickisBHAFC]

United doing there best not to score

[Guest]

United are just very average, 70% possession & no end product.

[GSC]

United have often been toothless this year while dominating possession

Harsh to use that tag today

[kingraf]

Talk about painful viewing

[compelling and rich]

dont think lingard ever heard of hitting the target

rooney has linked up ok deep but offered no attacking threat whatsoever

martial has been stood offside all game

mata hasnt been in the game

[kingraf]

Probably as good a time as any to remind people that I've never rated Rooney as an elite player. Except obviously for that one season he was elite

[Guest]

How long before LVG looks at his book & goes to Plan B, Fellaini

[Guest]

PSV take the lead

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Lingard has lots of qualities, but none of them have a final product attached to them.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

The substitution of Martial for Fellaini brings boo from the United fans.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

ROOOOOOOOOONEY

[NickisBHAFC]

Rooney tackles himself instead of tapping home from 2 yards.

[Guest]

that was embarrassing

[NickisBHAFC]

Chris Smalling that is utter class

[compelling and rich]

chris smalling best defender in the league at the moment!

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