UEFA Champions and Europa League 2015/16 Thread

[Dolphin Ziggler]

First topic message reminder :

It begins for the English today as West Ham face FC Lusitans in front of a sold out Upton Park this evening. The team will be a bit mixed. Randolph, O'Brien, Tomkins, Burke, Page. Jarvis, Oxford, Poyet, Amalfitano. Zarate, Sakho.

[Duty281]

Rooney is having a dreadful game, even by his standards, but I'm still backing him to score an 85th minute tap-in.

'English' clubs having an atrocious time of it in Europe.

[Hero]

What an assist from Mata, pure class!

[Guest]

City are woeful

[Jermaine2015]

Juan Mata is class, another Chelsea howler letting him go.

[Guest]

According to the stats Man City have all the possession (66% so far) and their playing away from home - but don't know what to do with it. Lots of shots but nearly all off target suggesting Borussia are well organised and solid defensively.

[Hero]

Mata and Smalling quality tonight for Utd.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Lady luck smiles on Manchester at home and abroad.

[compelling and rich]

rooney waste of space tonight..... again

great watching martial play, so positive. got away with it towards the end, some poor subs by lvg.

[Guest]

Well done to both Manchester sides.  Still Man City will have to finish ahead of Seville or and Juventus.  

Ronaldo scores another brace for Real Madrid.  Ferguson called him a footballing genius, and he has since got better.

[Guest]

Man Utd's Group:
Team ...... played ....... GD ...... Points
PSV ......... 2 .............. 0........... 3
Man Utd ... 2 .............. 0........... 3
Wolfsburg . 2 .............. 0........... 3
CSKA ....... 2 .............. 0............ 3

[Guest]

United grinding the results out under LVG, but you can see the small squad is already getting fatigued. Tough group that to call & I think United go to Wolfsburg in the last game.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Never just figured though that those top teams are just better than the English ones so can therefor dispose of them easier?! I mean if the league is so strong why do the teams do nothing in the Europa League either, to me it's just the constant excuses about physicality, depth whatever with no real proof to back it up over other leagues. Having said that if you play kick and rush football with a lot of running your naturally more tired, that's why the European teams place more emphasis on technique rather than trying to win with power and energy.

The Europa League is nothing more than an unwanted distraction for the English teams, just look at Liverpool and Tottenham both teams are eyeing a top four finish so tend not to rotate when it comes to Europe. The money at stake in the Premier League is another reason too, Tottenham usually do enough to win a few games in the group stages, progress to the knockout rounds at which point the money at stake isn't worth the effort for them.

[President Trump]

Spurs always rotate the team in the Europa especially in the group stages

[Guest]

I don't get it, they fail miserably at attempting to get a top 4, so why not go for the Europa League? They have a better chance of winning that cup, than a top 4. I get the financial implications, but that's so short sighted. They can come sixth, pick up £10m (which is peanuts in general) or they can try & win the Europa League, gain a champions league slot & pocket £25m+. Okay the league form will drop & they might finish top 10, but that's not much difference to just crawling to a top 6 or 7 like they do every year.

It will come to the point that we lose the fourth champs lge spot & then teams will have to do what I have said, as Spurs attempting a top 3 against Man C, Man U, Arsenal & Chelsea will be impossible.

[Ent]

If you can't cope with Europa leage football you'll not be able to cope with cl football so why aspire to it?

Liverpool last year sending out a weak team in the group stages to rest up for a pl game when their goal was top four.

Baffling attitude from some pl teams.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

The Europa League is the league cup of European competitions. It's only interesting in the latter stages.

[Fernando]

Dinamo Zagreb's Arijan Ademi failed a drugs test after playing against Arsenal in the CL this season.

[Guest]

What a save Manuel Neuer

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Hand of Giroud

[Guest]

Still a massive ask for Arsenal. Olympiacos will beat Zagreb & you'd expect Bayern to beat Arsenal in Germany, which would leave Olympiacos six points clear of Arsenal, with two games to play.

[socal1976]

Was it a handball? I thought it hit his face and went through his arms but didn't touch them, could be wrong. Bellerin was freaking huge tonight as both fullbacks were. Bellerin tore Aliba, who may be the best LB in the world up tonight on a couple occasions, and that final assist to Ozil for 2-0 was sweet. Munich had all of the ball but if you look at good chances to score it was pretty close in regards to clear cut chances. How Theo and Giroud both fail to beat Neuer on open headers from 3 or 4 yards out is down both Neuer's quality and some poor striking. This team is a bit more rugged and battle tested than Arsenal teams of the last few seasons. Monreal was also huge they were trying to isolate Mueller on him by keeping far to the Arsenal left wing hoping to isolate him on Nacho, and Nacho was not fazed. Kos and Per were outstanding, Cech was outstanding, and Santi and Mesut did great in the midfield. Giroud was all action and caused them a lot of problems. Theo was bright in the first half as well. Lucky Lewandowski wasn't as clinical as usual and Mueller was pretty much isolated out on the Arsenal left and didn't threaten at all.

[Guest]

Why are Arsenal so hit and miss? Who is going to replace Arsene Wenger - a good leader also considers the issue of succession. Man Utd think Ryan Giggs is their long term future. What about Arsenal? Pep Guardiola ...?

[socal1976]

I'd like to get pep we are kind of a step down for him we aren't barca or Munich but he has talked glowing of the club and how we do business. But right now I don't know of too many people that would do better than Wenger. This of course is not universal. Roberto Martinez has been mentioned and I think he could do the job. Who knows maybe Jose he seems fascinated with Arsenal and likes the premier league and London. Although frankly I would not want that joker regardless of trophies.

[Guest]

still can't see where bayern have improved from last year though. worrying for pep not being able to break down arsenal. you always feel, when it came to the toughest hurdles, messi would always bail out pep, i don't see who delivers that for bayern in europe.

as for replacing wenger, if pep hasn't got lionel with him, he's not much of an upgrade on wenger. if anything, it's just pass, pass, pass pretty football, with no end product.

[GSC]

I do love the internet theory of everyone's success is a byproduct of someone else's success.

[Guest]

People are allowed an opinion, are they not? No proof either way, if his success is down to a certain individual, so you're barking up the wrong tree, trying to make out this opinion is wrong & that your belief is always right.

[Alistair]

I do agree to an extent. I'd like to see what Pep was able to do with a squad that wasn't already built for him. Stick him at someone like Newcastle or Stoke and see if he can turn them in to world beaters.

[Hero]

I'd like to get pep we are kind of a step down for him we aren't barca or Munich but he has talked glowing of the club and how we do business. But right now I don't know of too many people that would do better than Wenger. This of course is not universal.  Roberto Martinez has been mentioned and I think he could do the job. Who knows maybe Jose he seems fascinated with Arsenal and likes the premier league and London. Although frankly I would not want that joker regardless of trophies.

I just couldn't see the Library taking to Mourinho, from watching a team that a win is just a by product of the performance to one where the win is at all costs is not one I'd think they'd appreciate.

[Alistair]

Mourinho is another one who who seems to have succeeded at teams that either already had the talent base or unlimited resource.

He wouldn't even be on a list of potential managers for Arsenal. No class for a start. Too busy playing pointless mind games and whinging about the F.A. He's one of those 'you only sing when you're winning' managers.

[GSC]

I think winning the CL with Porto represents winning big without unlimited resource or a massive talent base.

Takes a different kind of manager to manage the biggest clubs. A lot more man management goes into those jobs I think comparatively. Would Pep or Jose do as well at a smaller club is a valid question, whether the likes of Pardew win 2 CLs with the clubs the other 2 have managed is another question.

[Alistair]

Porto is perhaps the exception, since then however, he's not replicated that achievement.

It's a valid argument, however, you'd question whether the likes of Pardew will ever get a crack at the big clubs. Moyes and Rodgers are failures when it comes to recent examples.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

To be fair to Mourinho, why should he go back down to a level he doesnt need to? Even his Inter side were more of a success than most managers in the Premier League have ever had.

[GSC]

I agree with that also. Just an observation.

[compelling and rich]

biggest black mark for me against mourinho is he's never been able to rebuild at the same club, he comes in gets fantastic performance then when it starts getting tough he does one, and the club suffers fairly badly afterwards

pep for me still has more to prove, his tactics and performances he got out of barca were fantastic but as others have eluded to messi was a massive factor in that. for me his teams need to learn a plan B, without messi his pass pass pass get wide pass back pass doesnt work half as well against a organised team. he's actually weakened bayern from heyenkes team as they could play with the best of them but could also get it wide and cross it in, they had multiple ways of attacking and were a lot less predictable. i also doubt peps ability to build a decent defence, the only top class defender he's had is one who was already there in puyol. his teams defend well by keeping the ball but the actual back fours of his teams have been poor for a while

not saying he's a bad manger as he's clearly not, but if were ranking both as all time managerial greats would like to see them adapt a little and we will have to judge pep in europe this season as domestically there are no decent challenges. winning leagues for bayern doesnt really mean much these days.

[Hammersmith harrier]

I consider managerial greats to be those who can have prolonged success at a team, rebuilding them with varying tactics and not having a reliance on one world class player. Pep is a good manager but I think Enrique has shown that the Messi factor can make any novice look like a genius and the fact Bayern were better before he took over works against him.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Its hard to say whether other managers would have been able to have the success across as many clubs and leagues as Mourinho has. He's probably a great in my book, even if hes a Muppet

[Hammersmith harrier]

He's a possible great for his Porto and Inter stints but that was very short term gain with both clubs being left in a shambles.

[compelling and rich]

mourinho has done enough already to be considered great i feel, but still real madrid wasnt a success and still got a job on at his second spell at chelsea, if he went on to win nothing for the rest of his career he wouldnt be considered as highly.

similar to wenger, i watched a espn program around 2000's and he was ranked as the greatest ever manger. it was a shambles then fergie was better even then, but still hed do well to get in top 5 now

[compelling and rich]

He's a possible great for his Porto and Inter stints but that was very short term gain with both clubs being left in a shambles.

i agree, to be considered one of the truly greats he needs to do it at a club long term

[socal1976]

I think Jose is a great manager but Inter wasn't exactly a bare cupboard in terms of talent and players when he went there they were the defending Italian league champions. The job he did at Porto was very impressive and the last time Real Madrid won league was also when Jose was managing them. It is a fair statement to say that he is a bit of a mercenary and with the turnover in management in football today that isn't the biggest knock. But it is true that his principal loyalty is to himself first and foremost and if he has a better situation he will jump ship. I personally wouldn't want him for Arsenal even though I am certain if he managed Arsenal we would probably win more trophies. Can not stand the way he grinds the joy out of the game. He even made Madrid a more boring version of themselves albeit they won the league, which hasn't happened that often in recent years. Plus in general he is an bumhole and a bit of an embarrassment.

[socal1976]

I'd like to get pep we are kind of a step down for him we aren't barca or Munich but he has talked glowing of the club and how we do business. But right now I don't know of too many people that would do better than Wenger. This of course is not universal.  Roberto Martinez has been mentioned and I think he could do the job. Who knows maybe Jose he seems fascinated with Arsenal and likes the premier league and London. Although frankly I would not want that joker regardless of trophies.

I just couldn't see the Library taking to Mourinho, from watching a team that a win is just a by product of the performance to one where the win is at all costs is not one I'd think they'd appreciate.

I personally don't like watching his teams play so I wouldn't want him trophies or not. I am not kidding but I often fall asleep watching Chelsea play, I only really get interested if they are losing and have to somehow claw a goal back.

[GSC]

Everyones a purist until Jose's managing your team.

[Fernando]

Pen CSKA - Martial handball.

[Fernando]

CSKA 1-0 United - Doumbia

[GSC]

I mean for all the criticisms of Chelseas style, Van Gaals United side have been at least as boring. Pointless possession in your own half is hardly edge of the seat stuff. Arsenal fans were hardly complaining when they did a smash and grab at the Emirates last season.

Plenty of teams have played good football, only winners get remembered

[Hero]

Phil Jones is a buffoon.

[Hero]

The awareness of the Utd players is poor, failing to do simple things like checking their shoulders before receiving the ball is putting them under pressure and they keep loosing it sloppily.

[Hero]

They just played the ball about for about 4 minutes in which CSKA touched it twice yet Utd went back to the half way line 7 times, 3 times the ball was stopped for a second.
Pedestrian.

[GSC]

They just played the ball about for about 4 minutes in which CSKA touched it twice yet Utd went back to the half way line 7 times, 3 times the ball was stopped for a second.
Pedestrian.

See Pointless Possession

[Hero]

It was emphasising your point!

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