Scotland RWC Warm-up Matches

by **George Carlin** Thu 02 Jul 2015, 11:18 am

First topic message reminder :

Previous RWC related nonsense:
https://www.606v2.com/t58234p1000-scotland-world-cup-look-ahead-and-squad

Game 1:

Scotland RWC Warm-up Matches - Page 6 Irelan10

Scotland RWC Warm-up Matches - Page 6 Irelan10

Scotland RWC Warm-up Matches - Page 6 Scot_f10

IRELAND v SCOTLAND
15 August 2015
KO: 17:00 local
Aviva Stadium, Dublin

Game 2:

Scotland RWC Warm-up Matches - Page 6 Italy_10

ITALY v SCOTLAND
22 August 2015
KO: 15:00 local
Stadio Olimpico di Torino, Turin

Game 3:

Scotland RWC Warm-up Matches - Page 6 Scot_f10

SCOTLAND v ITALY
29 August 2015
KO: 15:15 local
Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh

Game 4:

Scotland RWC Warm-up Matches - Page 6 France10

FRANCE v SCOTLAND
05 September 2015
KO: 21:00 local
Stade de France, Saint-Denis

by funnyExiledScot Fri 17 Jul 2015, 5:18 pm

jimbopip wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:Agree entirely with the XV selected by Mr Bru, but would change the bench to be as follows:

16.McInally
17.Reid
18.Cusack
19.Gilchrist
20.Denton
21.Laidlaw
22.Horne
23.Visser

Yes you need the fearsome physical presence of McMisser on the bench just in case we get into an arm wrestle and are being out-muscled.

It was more that we may need to chase the game and, you know, score a try. That being the case I thought having the most prolific try scorer available to us would be helpful as a matter of impact.

by **George Carlin** Fri 17 Jul 2015, 6:46 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:The difference between Hardie and players like Cowan and Low is that they were not called up mid-way through a pre-World Cup training squad. They were added in the usual course as part of an AI squad and capped accordingly.
Devil's advocate, for a moment: I'm not sure that I see the difference between capping someone during a 4 game AI series and capping someone during a 4 games summer international series, which is what we're going into now.

One series of international games at a time?

You mean you don't understand the difference between warm-up games as part of the preparations for a World Cup, and stand-alone fully competitive international matches? I'm pretty sure if you tune into the games the difference will be pretty clear. The first mission of players in these matches will be to avoid injury. Everything else will be secondary. They will say otherwise, for obvious reasons, but it won't be the truth.

I suppose it comes down to whether you think the World Cup is of special importance, and matches within it of particular significance, or whether they are just the same as any other international matches. I personally think the World Cup is particularly significant, both for players and fans. I suspect John Hardie thinks so as well, otherwise I presume he'd have waited until the start of the next NH season to introduce himself to Scottish rugby (as I'm certain he would have done in any ordinary year), rather than skipping his ice bath at the end of the Super 15 season and jumping on a plane.

As I said before, even without the rugby reasons I've stated, I'm against it in principle, and I've no doubt this taints my view of the whole shebang. The squad was selected, has been in (hopefully) intense preparations for the World Cup, and I'd like to think that Cotter and Johnson have already got a pretty clear view of the final 31, if not nailed it already. I can't believe that Lancaster, Hansen, Gatland, Schmidt et al would now seriously contemplate selecting a player, or even introducing a player, who hasn't been part of the already gruelling WC preparations. It's not like 7 is even a problem position for us, or that Hardie is a McCaw or a Pocock (not that that would change my view).

I genuinely hear you and understand this point of view.

I think all I'm saying is that any standalone series of internationals which do not involve tournament play is a precursor to something big - either a 6 Nations, a Lions Tour or a World Cup. If you haven't ever played international rugby at all, then to feature in any of these must be pretty great.

Once you've committed to the country, why wait? Anscombe came over the the Blues before he was scheduled to once he was told he had a shout of making the Welsh 6 Nations squad.

What I am really interested in is what Hardie will do if (and I believe, 'when') he does not make the final Scotland squad. If he flies back to the SH to play, then I will be the very first on these boards to call him a mercenary douchebag.

by funnyExiledScot Fri 17 Jul 2015, 8:58 pm

Fair play! If he packs his bags if not selected I'm going to personally insist that he suffers the whole flight back sitting between Schizoid and Scott Johnson.

by Prothero Sat 18 Jul 2015, 6:17 pm

OOH Just under 4 weeks until the Ireland game, cant wait, personally I think We should only play our full strength team against Ireland and then try combinations in the remaining games. A injury at this stage to Russell or Hogg would be disastrous.

by jimbopip Sun 19 Jul 2015, 7:54 pm

I would be quite content if Hogg and Dancer sat out all of the warm up games.Who cares about them?

If we lost all four and then had a very good WC we would all be delighted. Conversely, if we won all four and then crashed out of the group with no wins we would be miserable as a stag night in Corstorphine.

I watched the AB's v Pumas: Naholo looked a real prospect till he broke his leg and now misses the WC.

I predict that all four RWC sides will lose players before the WC and, depending on which players, their chances will be affected.

Scotland are not blessed with the deepest pool of world class players (Ayr is a small town) and we need to "caw canny" as my granny used to say. That and , "Yes, but just a small one."

by **RDW** Sun 19 Jul 2015, 8:06 pm

Problem is, players also need game time given it is so long since they last played.

by funnyExiledScot Sun 19 Jul 2015, 8:08 pm

Agree Jimbo, I'm not too fussed about these warm-up games, they are never a proxy for real World Cup rugby. We probably need to give the front row a shot with Nel on board, and I think there's a straight shoot out between Ashe and Denton so perhaps two games each and pick the winner.

by jimbopip Sun 19 Jul 2015, 8:30 pm

Jeepers it is the end of days. Shocked

RDW and Fester agreeing with me on the same weekend. Hug

You're right, Nel, and the Mighty Coo both need game time. I think Cotter needs to have five props so: Grant, Nel, Shrek, Coo and Dickinson.
Nel and Coo will need game time but the others need just enough to sharpen them up.
In the backs the likes of Jackson, Bennett, Scott and Dunbar need game time to get up to speed, Vernon and Tonks need time to see if they are up to it but others should be wrapped up in cotton wool.

If it's a shoot out between Ashe and Dozer, my money is on Ashe.

p.s. Here's one for GC. Princess daughter is walking down the aisle in just over a week. MrsPip dragged me out shopping yesterday: apparently I need a white shirt and a pair of black shoes. I came home with a France rugby jersey. No shirt, no shoes but a lovely jersey.

by Gwlad Sun 19 Jul 2015, 8:32 pm

Do Scotland fans think they can beat Samoa?

by **RDW** Sun 19 Jul 2015, 8:37 pm

Are you seriously suggesting our main players shouldn't play in the warm ups? And going into world cup games with very little match practice?

by jimbopip Sun 19 Jul 2015, 8:42 pm

Gwlad, yes. Yes. And yes. Although watching their off-loading game vs USA did remind me of Glasgow in full flow.

RDW, it's a fine balancing act. We need to give our three best centres enough game time to be match fit but not one second more. If Scott, Bennett and Dunbar all break down before the tournament begins we are totally Donald Ducked.

by justified sinner Sun 19 Jul 2015, 8:45 pm

There's also a case for trying out new partnerships, e.g. Russell and SHC.

by jimbopip Sun 19 Jul 2015, 8:55 pm

Sorry Mr Sinner, that should be our first choice pairing, try out Cooseater- Meatball, Henners-Hornee, Frodo-Tonks (with the stipulation that the ponderous one is not allowed to kick).

by **RDW** Sun 19 Jul 2015, 8:57 pm

Even worse - now suggesting our first choice half back pairing (who have barely played together) sit out most the warm ups now!

by Prothero Sun 19 Jul 2015, 9:42 pm

The longer we leave out S-H-C and Russell the longer we can convince ourselves that they are the second coming of Armstrong and Toonie.
The minute we play them together and opposition defences dont part like the red sea, we will all be clamouring for a Laidlaw, Weir combo to ensure we get territory.
For this is the golden rule of Scottish rugby....... Always blame the 10.

by funnyExiledScot Sun 19 Jul 2015, 9:55 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Are you seriously suggesting our main players shouldn't play in the warm ups? And going into world cup games with very little match practice?

I'm not suggesting that key players miss all the games, more that we remember that these contests will have very little resemblance to World Cup rugby and therefore fine to look at some combinations, but equally fine for key and irreplaceable players like Russell and Hogg not to have to playe BBC every game.

by **RDW** Sun 19 Jul 2015, 10:08 pm

I'm certainly not saying play every game.

I reckon the first choice 23 need to play around 2 full games over the 4. Even that isn't great preparation to go straight into world cup rugby.

by tigertattie Mon 20 Jul 2015, 9:28 am

jimbopip wrote:
p.s. Here's one for GC. Princess daughter is walking down the aisle in just over a week. MrsPip dragged me out shopping yesterday: apparently I need a white shirt and a pair of black shoes. I came home with a France rugby jersey. No shirt, no shoes but a lovely jersey.

If you bought the away jersey you could have argued that you'd followed orders!

by funnyExiledScot Mon 20 Jul 2015, 9:34 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:I'm certainly not saying play every game.

I reckon the first choice 23 need to play around 2 full games over the 4. Even that isn't great preparation to go straight into world cup rugby.

I'd agree if we were starting against Samoa or South Africa, but remember we have two games against USA and Japan that we "should" win without having to be at our very best.

To me it's more about resolving selection close calls, and testing a couple of combinations.

Close calls to resolved:

Loosehead - who makes the final cut, Reid or Grant?
Hooker - who makes the bench as cover for Ford, Brown or McInally?
Flanker - who will the two opensides be from Barclay, Cowan, Watson and now Hardie?
Scrum half - who will start, Pyrgos, H-C or Laidlaw? Does Cusiter make the final cut?
Centre - who is fit??

Combinations:

Front row - Nel, Ford and Dickinson need game time together, and we need to see Cusack in the dark blue as well.
Second row - Gilchrist needs game time.
Back row - to play Strauss at 6 or 8, and what will be the preferred combination.
Half backs - I'd suggest Hidalgo-Clyne and Russell need time together.
Centres - we may need to view Vernon at 13 outside Dunbar or Scott.

by **RDW** Mon 20 Jul 2015, 9:47 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:I'm certainly not saying play every game.

I reckon the first choice 23 need to play around 2 full games over the 4. Even that isn't great preparation to go straight into world cup rugby.

I'd agree if we were starting against Samoa or South Africa, but remember we have two games against USA and Japan that we "should" win without having to be at our very best.

Do you not remember what happened last time against the 'minnow' teams that we were meant to easily beat? Also, the games are within 4 days so will no doubt be 2 completely different teams.

Our players need to play in the warm up games!!

by jimbopip Mon 20 Jul 2015, 10:09 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Even worse - now suggesting our first choice half back pairing (who have barely played together) sit out most the warm ups now!

I think since all the squad have now spent an eternity together, with another month plus before the tournament begins then they may be familiar with each other. Seriously, the exciting thing about Samwise and Dancer is that they both like to improvise and play what is in front of them, they shouldn't need too many games, or parts of, to know if they can play together.
.

by nickj Mon 20 Jul 2015, 11:30 am

Impressive score for the Japanese against Canada - http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_63682,00.html
I have a feeling they could test us in our opener.

by IanBru Mon 20 Jul 2015, 11:47 am

Nice try, that. Highlights here:

You've got to say though that you wouldn't expect such a gaping hole to appear between Dunbar and Bennett or even Horne and Vernon. Scott's defence has improved in the last couple of years as well (JD2, aside).

by madmaccas Mon 20 Jul 2015, 11:59 am

nickj wrote:Impressive score for the Japanese against Canada - http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_63682,00.html
I have a feeling they could test us in our opener.

They're definitely improving under Eddie Jones, but having watched the game they weren't amazing. It was more a case of Canada being dire. Canada's most creative back line player is Connor Braid, so they're not the team of old. Bar a nice try, all their points came from the boot.

One area Japan looked very strong was the scrum and back row. I don't think we'll be able to blow them away as we have in the past.

Also watched the USA game and they looked pretty poor. That said, they've only been training together for a week and this was their first game of the summer (as opposed to Samoa who had just faced the ABs). They got much better in the 2nd half. Saying that, we'd have to have a huge off day to lose to the Americans.

What I was impressed with was the Samoan 1st half play. For once they actually look very organised (a scary prospect indeed!) and their back row won a lot of tunrovers. I think we'll have a big challenge on our hands to beat them. The one place they looked weak was their kicking game, so if we make the right decisions and pin them back, then we can push for a mistake. If we kick loose though, they will punish us big time.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 20 Jul 2015, 12:07 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:I'm certainly not saying play every game.

I reckon the first choice 23 need to play around 2 full games over the 4. Even that isn't great preparation to go straight into world cup rugby.

I'd agree if we were starting against Samoa or South Africa, but remember we have two games against USA and Japan that we "should" win without having to be at our very best.

Do you not remember what happened last time against the 'minnow' teams that we were meant to easily beat? Also, the games are within 4 days so will no doubt be 2 completely different teams.

Our players need to play in the warm up games!!

I'm not suggesting they don't! However I don't think it's going to be a case of the 1st XV playing 3 of 4 of the warm-up games. These are just glorified run arounds, and no proxy for World Cup intensity. Am I also right in saying that Strauss can't actually play in any of these warm-up games, so at the very least we can't build a new back row in these games.

We're going to be under cooked no matter what. Part of that is down to the introduction of Nel, Strauss and Hardie, part down to the constant selection dithering and rotation of the last few years, but part also is down to the nasty injuries we experienced this season during the 6 Nations, where we were unable to take a proper look at the preferred midfield combinations (and we still can't due to injuries).

I've outlined what I see as the priorities for these games. All the old cliches will be wheeled out about not underestimating USA and Japan, bringing our A game and having to be at our best to beat them. Nevertheless, if we genuinely believe that we won't beat those teams if we don't play to our absolute best, then we may as well pack up!

by **RDW** Mon 20 Jul 2015, 12:27 pm

Given it is going to have to be a different team for each game, I'd propose the following:

Japan

Pick a big, physical team and play an organised game (but not slow and ponderous), looking to dominate up front and starve them of possession. I.e. the Edinburgh way! We can't play fast and loose against these guys - that will play right into their hands.

1 Dickinson
2 Ford
3 Welsh
4 Hamilton
5 Gilchrist
6 Harley
7 Barclay
8 Denton

9 Laidlaw/Pyrgos
10 Weir
11 Lamont
12 Dunbar
13 Vernon
14 Seymour
15 Tonks

USA

High tempo, aggressive, direct and relentless - our superior physicality and skill level will hopefully be too much for them to cope with. I.e. the Glasgow way!

1 Reid
2 Brown/McInally
3 Nel
4 Gray
5 Gray
6 Strauss
7 Watson
8 Ashe

9 Hidalgo-Clyne
10 Russell
11 Visser
12 Scott
13 Bennett
14 Seymour
15 Hogg

Tell both teams that it is a straight shoot out for places for the next two games.

The exact players in each team isn't the debating point here, more kind of game we need to be playing. It also makes a lot of assumptions on player fitness!

by funnyExiledScot Mon 20 Jul 2015, 12:34 pm

It's funny, my focus wouldn't be on tailoring our line-up to play a style to beat these guys, but to rather focus on the South Africa and Samoa games and make the selections for these games based on who I think we'll use against those teams. The starting XV for the South Africa game ought to have a proper run-out as a group in one of these games, with my preference being Japan (as we can tinker the line-up against USA accordingly).

My Japan XV (and accordingly my SA and Samoa XV) would be as follows:

1.Dickinson 2.Ford 3.Nel 4.J Gray 5.R Gray 6.Strauss 7.Barclay 8.Denton 9.Hidalgo-Clyne 10.Russell 11.Seymour 12.Dunbar 13.Bennett 14.Maitland 15.Hogg

For the USA:

1.Reid 2.McInally 3.Cusack 4.Gilchrist 5.Hamilton 6.Harley 7.Watson 8.Ashe 9.Laidlaw 10.Weir 11.Visser 12.Scott 13.Bennett 14.Seymour 15.Maitland

Players common to both should be candidates for being substituted in the first two games as and when appropriate.

by reallybored Mon 20 Jul 2015, 12:52 pm

Start the strongest team possible in every match, the only change I'd make would be in the back-row for SA & Samoa.

JAPAN & USA - 6. Strauss, 7. Barclay, 8. Ashe ( 20. Denton )

Try blow these teams away with two big carriers in the back-row.

SA & SAMOA - 6. Harley, 7. Barclay, 8. Strauss ( 20. Ashe )

Bring in the big ginger tackle monster to stop opposition's momentum in attack and strengthen line-out.

by **RDW** Mon 20 Jul 2015, 12:54 pm

I know what you mean, and the disadvantage of my plan is that some first choice combinations won't play together, but in my mind we need to take each game as it comes and play a team suited to beating them.

by RuggerRadge2611 Mon 20 Jul 2015, 1:18 pm

I agree with RDW. For Japan and the USA we should mix it up and play 2 different styles of game.

Make no mistake about, South Africa and Samoa will have video analysts going over our first 2 games meticulously. Samoa will no doubt be targeting us, just as much as we will be targeting them in terms of almost a straight knock out match, unless they have already beaten South Africa...

I think it's important we don't show too much of our hand before we play Samoa. After that game we'll be in a position to know if we are through or not and could perhaps look to preserve our important players for the knockout stages. There is no sense in sending out our best to play South Africa if we know we are already through.

by tigertattie Mon 20 Jul 2015, 2:06 pm

See I don't think we should be picking players and a gameplan thats designed to go up against one team or another.

We should pick the players and the play the game plan that we feel best suits us and our game!

by RuggerRadge2611 Mon 20 Jul 2015, 2:17 pm

tigertattie wrote:See I don't think we should be picking players and a gameplan thats designed to go up against one team or another.

We should pick the players and the play the game plan that we feel best suits us and our game!

Even if we have no idea what that game plan is? Cotter has been unfortunate with injuries but certainly nothing in the 6N has shown us what the Scottish game plan is.

Give away hunners of penalties, spray kicks all over the park, catapult loose forwards into the fringes of rucks, butcher try scoring opportunities and get guys sin binned seems to be the only discernible pattern in Scottish International rugby at the moment.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 20 Jul 2015, 2:21 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I agree with RDW. For Japan and the USA we should mix it up and play 2 different styles of game.

Make no mistake about, South Africa and Samoa will have video analysts going over our first 2 games meticulously. Samoa will no doubt be targeting us, just as much as we will be targeting them in terms of almost a straight knock out match, unless they have already beaten South Africa...

I think it's important we don't show too much of our hand before we play Samoa. After that game we'll be in a position to know if we are through or not and could perhaps look to preserve our important players for the knockout stages. There is no sense in sending out our best to play South Africa if we know we are already through.

I thought the Samoa game came after the South Africa game? In fact I know it does.

The choice Cotter will have is whether to "rest" key players against South Africa in order to maxmise our chances against Samoa, which is that last Pool game. My preference would be to rotate for the USA game, giving the 1st XV three cracks at the whip, first against Japan and then South Africa and Samoa.

If we rest players against South Africa I will be appauled. That should be the game we ought to be throwing the kitchen sink at, especially if we want to rebuild some respect for Scottish rugby.

by Tattie Scones RRN Mon 20 Jul 2015, 2:29 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:It's funny, my focus wouldn't be on tailoring our line-up to play a style to beat these guys, but to rather focus on the South Africa and Samoa games and make the selections for these games based on who I think we'll use against those teams. The starting XV for the South Africa game ought to have a proper run-out as a group in one of these games, with my preference being Japan (as we can tinker the line-up against USA accordingly).

My Japan XV (and accordingly my SA and Samoa XV) would be as follows:

1.Dickinson 2.Ford 3.Nel 4.J Gray 5.R Gray 6.Strauss 7.Barclay 8.Denton 9.Hidalgo-Clyne 10.Russell 11.Seymour 12.Dunbar 13.Bennett 14.Maitland 15.Hogg

For the USA:

1.Reid 2.McInally 3.Cusack 4.Gilchrist 5.Hamilton 6.Harley 7.Watson 8.Ashe 9.Laidlaw 10.Weir 11.Visser 12.Scott 13.Bennett 14.Seymour 15.Maitland

Players common to both should be candidates for being substituted in the first two games as and when appropriate.

Seen as I'm going to the Japan game, I'd be delighted if that was the team!!!!

Agree with your comment above - we should be aiming to win the group. Australia showed over the weekend that the Boks are beatable.

by tigertattie Mon 20 Jul 2015, 2:53 pm

The Boks are beatable! And it's in November that we normally have the best chance of beating them! Dunno if this is down to thier season coming to an end and their players are pooped, but historically its our best time of the year to get them!

The notion of resting players for SA just worries me! Its a defeatist attitude to say the least! Just say we get to the semi, would we rest players on the chance that we still win and then we'd have fresher players for the final?

No! We woudn't!

By all means, if we have a player that is dead on his erse then rest him. A totally pooped player is never going to be ideal at this level!

But don't wrap boys in cotton wool during the middle of a tournament!

by RuggerRadge2611 Mon 20 Jul 2015, 3:14 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I agree with RDW. For Japan and the USA we should mix it up and play 2 different styles of game.

Make no mistake about, South Africa and Samoa will have video analysts going over our first 2 games meticulously. Samoa will no doubt be targeting us, just as much as we will be targeting them in terms of almost a straight knock out match, unless they have already beaten South Africa...

I think it's important we don't show too much of our hand before we play Samoa. After that game we'll be in a position to know if we are through or not and could perhaps look to preserve our important players for the knockout stages. There is no sense in sending out our best to play South Africa if we know we are already through.

I thought the Samoa game came after the South Africa game? In fact I know it does.

The choice Cotter will have is whether to "rest" key players against South Africa in order to maxmise our chances against Samoa, which is that last Pool game. My preference would be to rotate for the USA game, giving the 1st XV three cracks at the whip, first against Japan and then South Africa and Samoa.

If we rest players against South Africa I will be appauled. That should be the game we ought to be throwing the kitchen sink at, especially if we want to rebuild some respect for Scottish rugby.

my mistake... Doh

Still, part of me agrees with Tiger Tattie that every game we should be playing to win. However we have to be pragmatic, our pool of players isn't deep enough to keep the intensity level up over the entire group without some rotation.

by **RDW** Mon 20 Jul 2015, 4:16 pm

In other news, Fiji have overtaken Scotland in the rankings, and we're only just ahead of Japan!

by funnyExiledScot Mon 20 Jul 2015, 4:27 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I agree with RDW. For Japan and the USA we should mix it up and play 2 different styles of game.

Make no mistake about, South Africa and Samoa will have video analysts going over our first 2 games meticulously. Samoa will no doubt be targeting us, just as much as we will be targeting them in terms of almost a straight knock out match, unless they have already beaten South Africa...

I think it's important we don't show too much of our hand before we play Samoa. After that game we'll be in a position to know if we are through or not and could perhaps look to preserve our important players for the knockout stages. There is no sense in sending out our best to play South Africa if we know we are already through.

I thought the Samoa game came after the South Africa game? In fact I know it does.

The choice Cotter will have is whether to "rest" key players against South Africa in order to maxmise our chances against Samoa, which is that last Pool game. My preference would be to rotate for the USA game, giving the 1st XV three cracks at the whip, first against Japan and then South Africa and Samoa.

If we rest players against South Africa I will be appauled. That should be the game we ought to be throwing the kitchen sink at, especially if we want to rebuild some respect for Scottish rugby.

my mistake...

Still, part of me agrees with Tiger Tattie that every game we should be playing to win. However we have to be pragmatic, our pool of players isn't deep enough to keep the intensity level up over the entire group without some rotation.

I entirely agree with this, but I guess it's when you rotate. In terms of making sure everyone in the squad gets a run out, that's what the warm-up games are for, and you can test and try little combinations within that. I personally think when the WC starts we want the 1st XV on the pitch for the opening fixture. Hopefully build some confidence and get full points in the bag. Give those guys a rest for the next encounter 4 days later, then come out all guns blazing for the big game against South Africa. You can assess the squad and the options available at that point in time, but there's a decent enough gap until Samoa and by that point you'd hope the best XV players we have will be fully uptospeed and firing on all cylinders after games against Japan and South Africa.

by **RDW** Mon 20 Jul 2015, 4:29 pm

There's only 6 days between SA and Samoa - we're bound to have some guys banged up.

by **George Carlin** Mon 20 Jul 2015, 4:31 pm

jimbopip wrote:
p.s. Here's one for GC. Princess daughter is walking down the aisle in just over a week. MrsPip dragged me out shopping yesterday: apparently I need a white shirt and a pair of black shoes. I came home with a France rugby jersey. No shirt, no shoes but a lovely jersey.

Excellent work. Enjoy your big day with the Principessa and let us know how it goes. Make sure your phone is charged for the last minute pep talk that may be needed by her the night before.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 20 Jul 2015, 4:45 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:There's only 6 days between SA and Samoa - we're bound to have some guys banged up.

Totally agree, and you simply cannot control that. Still better to give it your all against South Africa in my view. Those players who do come through that game (and Japan according to my strategy) will be good and ready to face the physical Samoans. The danger is that you hold players back for the never never, and before you know it the World Cup is over.

Ideally the games would be in a different order, so that you would face South Africa first, USA second, Samoa third and Japan last. That way you have a bit more "control" over what you require in terms of points from the final game, and a clear game (i.e. USA second) in which to use the second string. You should effectively know what you need from the final game and could tailor the squad for that game accordingly.

I just couldn't bear a repeat of the 2007 World Cup where we took the cowardly option and fielded our second string against New Zealand and took a virtually uncontested 40-0 pasting, just so we could scrape past Italy by two points and then fold to Argentina, barely throwing a punch in the process (so to speak). I came close to wanting us to get knocked out after that!! We should play to win each game, and only by playing our very best team do we even stand a chance against the Boks. We can't expect to regain the lost respect by throwing the big World Cup games trying to be "tactical".

by **RDW** Mon 20 Jul 2015, 4:54 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:There's only 6 days between SA and Samoa - we're bound to have some guys banged up.

Totally agree, and you simply cannot control that. Still better to give it your all against South Africa in my view. Those players who do come through that game (and Japan according to my strategy) will be good and ready to face the physical Samoans. The danger is that you hold players back for the never never, and before you know it the World Cup is over.

Ideally the games would be in a different order, so that you would face South Africa first, USA second, Samoa third and Japan last. That way you have a bit more "control" over what you require in terms of points from the final game, and a clear game (i.e. USA second) in which to use the second string. You should effectively know what you need from the final game and could tailor the squad for that game accordingly.

I just couldn't bear a repeat of the 2007 World Cup where we took the cowardly option and fielded our second string against New Zealand and took a virtually uncontested 40-0 pasting, just so we could scrape past Italy by two points and then fold to Argentina, barely throwing a punch in the process (so to speak). I came close to wanting us to get knocked out after that!! We should play to win each game, and only by playing our very best team do we even stand a chance against the Boks. We can't expect to regain the lost respect by throwing the big World Cup games trying to be "tactical".

Well on that point it is worth noting that our first game will actually be Japans 2nd - they play SA 4 days before and there's a strong suggestion that they'll put out a weaker team against SA to target us.

Can't really blame them!

by funnyExiledScot Mon 20 Jul 2015, 5:41 pm

Japan could be 100 points down if they don't take the South Africa game seriously!!

Still, I don't particularly care about Japanese rugby if I'm being honest and they can do whatever suits them. Clearly beating Scotland is a big deal for them. Beating Japan is not a big deal for us, and shouldn't be treated as such. With all the money and preparation pumped into this tournament, the players we have (and have poached) and the time Cotter et al have had with the players, we should beat Japan, and beat them comfortably. That should still be the case with any combination of players from our squad, and without changing our style of play to try and beat them.

We should be seeking to beat South Africa and Samoa, that's our holy grail. Beat these guys and the Group will take care of itself, and respect for Scottish rugby more generally will grow.

Perhaps I'm being too optimistic, and the new normal is that we shouldn't bother competing with the top sides, and accept that each tournament is simply a scrap for second place in the Group, with us chopping and changing our game plan not to suit ourselves, but to negate teams like USA and Japan. What a depressing thought!

by Gwlad Mon 20 Jul 2015, 7:49 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:Japan could be 100 points down if they don't take the South Africa game seriously!!

Still, I don't particularly care about Japanese rugby if I'm being honest and they can do whatever suits them. Clearly beating Scotland is a big deal for them. Beating Japan is not a big deal for us, and shouldn't be treated as such. With all the money and preparation pumped into this tournament, the players we have (and have poached) and the time Cotter et al have had with the players, we should beat Japan, and beat them comfortably. That should still be the case with any combination of players from our squad, and without changing our style of play to try and beat them.

We should be seeking to beat South Africa and Samoa, that's our holy grail. Beat these guys and the Group will take care of itself, and respect for Scottish rugby more generally will grow.

Perhaps I'm being too optimistic, and the new normal is that we shouldn't bother competing with the top sides, and accept that each tournament is simply a scrap for second place in the Group, with us chopping and changing our game plan not to suit ourselves, but to negate teams like USA and Japan. What a depressing thought!

It thought the holy Grail was winning RWC, wasn't that what some bean counter announced a few years ago was the SRU's stated objective?

by IanBru Mon 20 Jul 2015, 8:03 pm

Is there a 'yawn' emoticon?

by tigertattie Tue 21 Jul 2015, 9:26 am

If Japan rest thier better players against SA to try and target us, this could actually work in our benefit?

Would there be the risk of an undercooked Japan side facing off against us?

by **George Carlin** Tue 21 Jul 2015, 9:30 am

tigertattie wrote:If Japan rest thier better players against SA to try and target us, this could actually work in our benefit?

Would there be the risk of an undercooked Japan side facing off against us?

"Undercooked"? They'd be sushi, surely.

by **RDW** Tue 21 Jul 2015, 9:31 am

tigertattie wrote:If Japan rest thier better players against SA to try and target us, this could actually work in our benefit?

Would there be the risk of an undercooked Japan side facing off against us?

It will be our first game too remember, and if Jimbo gets his way and rests all our front line (i.e. Glasgow) players for the 4 warmup games then we'll be very undercooked too!

by funnyExiledScot Tue 21 Jul 2015, 9:36 am

George Carlin wrote:
tigertattie wrote:If Japan rest thier better players against SA to try and target us, this could actually work in our benefit?

Would there be the risk of an undercooked Japan side facing off against us?
"Undercooked"? They'd be sushi, surely.

Oh dear God....

by jimbopip Tue 21 Jul 2015, 9:40 am

I had originally thought that Cotter would most likely take two 10's and probably Hornee Furra as 10/12 cover.
Looking at the players Glasgow have signed as cover it looks as if Hornee, Meatball and Richie V will all be in the squad. It also suggests to me that at least one of our injured centres isn't healing as quickly as hoped.
Cotter has made it clear that he sees Scotland playing the sort of high tempo off-loading game that Glasgow employ. This would seem to suggest that Rhuaridh Jackson could be back up to Dancer rather than Meatball as Jackson is closer to Dancer's style.

So, here's a possible scenario; Dunbar and Bennett are not fully fit so the first choice centres are Scott,Horne and Vernon (perm two from three) with Meatball and Jackson providing the fourth centre and second 10. It's either that or Schlong covering 13. Personally I'd rather have Scott/Vernon at 13 and Scott/Horne at 12.

This raises the prospect of Dancer-Horne-Vernon in our opening game thus giving Jackson-Meatball-Scott the USA game. This is counting on Scott being fit, otherwise it's either Tonks or Schlong at 13.

So, we can only wait with bated breath for Bennett and Dunbar to return from their day trip to Lourdes. If they're still crocked we should all go into full Private Fraser mode and stay there for the duration.

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