Welsh World Cup Squad part 2

First topic message reminder :

Anyone else think Ll Williams and Anscombe did well when they came on? Would definitely take them over Phillips and Hook at the moment.

Do we play our first VX v Uruguay with England 6 days later who do we protect certain key players, the likes of Gethin, Lee, Warburton, Biggar, Doc, Half and North

Protect the first Xv I think. But pick a team capable of putting a cricket score on them.

Whilst hoping Fiji beat their first opponents.

Gwlad wrote:Do we play our first VX v Uruguay with England 6 days later who do we protect certain key players, the likes of Gethin, Lee, Warburton, Biggar, Doc, Half and North

You would like to think that whatever team we put out against Uruguay they should be able to put them to the sword so I would say no we don't risk them. However if Gatland thinks we need to give them a run then lets hope they get the job done inside first 40-50 mins and then get them off the field.

Personally I don't think we will see much of those you named in the pool games outside the England and Australia game.

Fiji are looking a decent team at the moment...

They are Maes and its a big risk given our past performances against the likes of them and Samoa but do we risk the first team guys with a 5 day turn around?

I would imagine that player preservation would be of the highest order. Probably a decent starting XV, with a bench to swap out those who need a rest.

Will be interesting to see who England pick when they play them first up. Also interesting to see how they do against them.

The English press don't seem to concerned about beating Fiji, though they seem confident that they will cause Wales a few issues.

I think Fiji will cause all their opponents issues.

Australia looked good in the rugby championship but got annihilated but the ABs a week after.

No point resting players, we only gonna have 4 games anyway.

I don't think the Welsh squad will share your attitude

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Surely 3 hookers have to be considered the norm that way there is at least a chance of rotating/resting one of them.

Mike Catt was complaining in the telegraph, regarding the Bazzers only selecting two hookers in their squad and the IRB said they don't have a problem with the selection so long as six qualified front row players are in the match day squad of 23.

Apparently they rejected Hartley because they thought that they wouldn't have had cover at hooker

Lancasters's stated reasoning at the time was that for the first game it would mean one hooker injury leaving us short. Two hookers would be fine but leave you exposed if one got injured, as apparently the regulation is that you need the full front row replacement on the bench. Perhaps Australia are backing one of their props to be able to at least fill in there safely in the scrum if both hookers were to get injured.

thomh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Surely 3 hookers have to be considered the norm that way there is at least a chance of rotating/resting one of them.

Mike Catt was complaining in the telegraph, regarding the Bazzers only selecting two hookers in their squad and the IRB said they don't have a problem with the selection so long as six qualified front row players are in the match day squad of 23.

Apparently they rejected Hartley because they thought that they wouldn't have had cover at hooker

Lancasters's stated reasoning at the time was that for the first game it would mean one hooker injury leaving us short. Two hookers would be fine but leave you exposed if one got injured, as apparently the regulation is that you need the full front row replacement on the bench. Perhaps Australia are backing one of their props to be able to at least fill in there safely in the scrum if both hookers were to get injured.

If one or both hookers I the Australia squad were injured they would just call up a reserve from outside the selected 31 man squad.

Yes, but apparently you can't be picked if called up within 48 hours of the game - so I read elsewhere. Also factor in the travel and acclimatisation from Australia, unless they're bringing a third hooker with them outside the 31 of course.

With only two hookers and injury in the warm up would mean not being able to field a whole replacement front row and a possible penalty. Can only imagine that one of their props is at least able to safely scrummage there in order to satisfy the rule.

They have named seven replacements who may not train with the thirty one squad members but are on stand by to cover injuries

Paul Rees article in the Guardian is a good read

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/aug/22/george-north-return-wales-focus-props-ireland

Pity he didn't get the opening line right though, because its not our last warm up match. Haven't these journos heard of proof reading.

Says we expected to name 9 front rowers so guessing that will be James, Jenkins, Evans, Baldwin, Owens, Dacey, Lee, Francis then Jarvis.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Pity he didn't get the opening line right though, because its not our last warm up match.  Haven't these journos heard of proof reading.

I think it was bad punctuation..

It should read..!

"George North is set to start for Wales in their final World Cup warm-up match against Ireland in Dublin next Saturday, five months after he last played and two days before Warren Gatland names his 31 players for the tournament."

bedfordwelsh wrote:Says we expected to name 9 front rowers so guessing that will be James, Jenkins, Evans, Baldwin, Owens, Dacey, Lee, Francis then Jarvis.

I think you're right.

Not sure that will be the case. That's a third of the squad just on front row and most of those are unlikely to play.

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Pity he didn't get the opening line right though, because its not our last warm up match.  Haven't these journos heard of proof reading.

I think it was bad punctuation..

It should read..!

"George North is set to start for Wales in their final World Cup warm-up match against Ireland in Dublin next Saturday, five months after he last played and two days before Warren Gatland names his 31 players for the tournament."

Either way its still not our last warm up game.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Pity he didn't get the opening line right though, because its not our last warm up match.  Haven't these journos heard of proof reading.

I think it was bad punctuation..

It should read..!

"George North is set to start for Wales in their final World Cup warm-up match against Ireland in Dublin next Saturday, five months after he last played and two days before Warren Gatland names his 31 players for the tournament."

Either way its still not our last warm up game.

It is our "final World Cup warm-up match against Ireland".

Italy is the last warm up game

irnbrew wrote:Italy is the last warm up game

Yes...!

But our final game against Ireland is the one in discussion.

Im in two minds, we need to preserve the firsts for England and not play them v uruguay but we all know how poor we are in first up games so i wonder if he will start playing the first xv v Italy, continue same side against uruguay while preserving a few key players and go into the England game with two big wins.

I think we need a core of first choice players vs Ireland next weekend too. And a win in Dublin will do a lot for morale as well as worry our opponents in pool b who both just badly lost games.

I agree Wales must now start there first 15 as it will take more than one or two games for them to be on song as it has proved in the past .

Well he's had them in camp for ages now so you would like to think they would at least have been training as a XV but yeah they ahve to start at least one of next two games and even possibly the Uruguay game then use bench after 40-50 mins.

I don't know if that will happen though.

They played against the Ospreys this week, and have played against each other a number of times including the well publicised game in North wales

Would it be better to put the full side out against Ireland or Italy?

bedfordwelsh wrote:Would it be better to put the full side out against Ireland or Italy?

I really think italy. We are a confidence side and i think if we put out a full strength side v the Irish it could turn into an arm wrestle and a loss would be hard to take…..put out some combinations and use it as a trial warm up again e.g. Anscombe at 15, Davies at 9, Francis at 3 etc. Then a loss means little again.

Then start firsts v Italy…..bar Lee and Snajay obviously. We'll win big I'm sure of that, and then the same v uruguay but with a bench that can replace the key players quickly once the game is well and truly won. Means we go into England bruised but not bloodied with two solid wins.

Thats said we are playing ireland away right….we are playing England at twickneham so playing our first team in an away fixture might have some use pre RWC.

tough decisions.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Would it be better to put the full side out against Ireland or Italy?

Either both or don't bother honouring the fixture. Throwing another game against Ireland is stupid, and will surely indicate more losses in upcoming fixtures (England and Australia).

mikey_dragon wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Would it be better to put the full side out against Ireland or Italy?

Either both or don't bother honouring the fixture. Throwing another game against Ireland is stupid, and will surely indicate more losses in upcoming fixtures (England and Australia).

Would we be throwing it if we were still trying to find out a few problem areas? Do we risk putting the first XV out in out next 3 games before facing England?

I am more along the lines of Gwlad, lets put a mixed side out against Ireland then injuries permitting a full against Italy and as near as he risks against Uruguay but use the bench once game is hopefully won. There are some big calls to make in next few weeks but that's why coaches go into this job.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Would it be better to put the full side out against Ireland or Italy?

BW, for me there are still 7 decisions to be made in personnel, and probably the most important decision, is it 17-14 or 18-13 that decision IMO is down to how far down the track is Samson in his recovery and fitness.
Either the 7 are selected in next weeks 23 or the players vying for the squad make up or a combination of them HAVE to be given a chance next week.

Reports suggest that Li Williams and Lee are on course to play some part in the Uruguay match so they must be there or there abouts by now.

I agree that he knows about 25/26 of the squad but in all honesty we could have most probably picked most of them a year ago.

For me the debate surrounds:

The number of props we take (Lees fitness dependant).
2nd row - does he go with all specialists or use King as a utiltiy
The utility back player will it be Anscombe or does he risk M Morgan

bedfordwelsh wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Would it be better to put the full side out against Ireland or Italy?

Either both or don't bother honouring the fixture. Throwing another game against Ireland is stupid, and will surely indicate more losses in upcoming fixtures (England and Australia).

Would we be throwing it if we were still trying to find out a few problem areas?   Do we risk putting the first XV out in out next 3 games before facing England?

I am more along the lines of Gwlad, lets put a mixed side out against Ireland then injuries permitting a full against Italy and as near as he risks against Uruguay but use the bench once game is hopefully won.  There are some big calls to make in next few weeks but that's why coaches go into this job.

What could he not know? He's been in charge since 2008. The opening fixture against Ireland was to give fringe players a test and to get some new caps. But given the capability of the rest of the team, we can surmise it was a fixture that got thrown. It doesn't make sense to me to do that again, but would make more sense against a weaker team like Italy, who we could probably still beat. Ireland are one of the top teams in world rugby right now, we should be doing our utmost to beat them, not rotating the team. As I previously alluded to on this thread we should have two changes for Uruguay anyway with Lee and Williams coming back in.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Reports suggest that Li Williams and Lee are on course to play some part in the Uruguay match so they must be there or there abouts by now.

I agree that he knows about 25/26 of the squad but in all honesty we could have most probably picked most of them a year ago.  

For me the debate surrounds:

The number of props we take (Lees fitness dependant).
2nd row - does he go with all specialists or use King as a utiltiy
The utility back player will it be Anscombe or does he risk M Morgan

Personally, if Lee and Liam are only able to take some part in the Uruguay game, we have to select 3 t/hs as there would be no guarantee that Samson would come through that or any other game unscathed, in that scenario I would select Jarvis as he is the better of 2 evils, I would then have King and Moriarty to go with the 3 established 2nd rows and 4 back row incumbents. For me there is NO debate for the utility, it has to be Anscombe, don't forget I've been watching Mathew Morgan in ALL games until he was allowed to leave us, and when it came to the crunch even Bristol didn't select him, in the scenario I've put together it would have to be 18-13, those 13 would be 3S/Hs, Biggar, Priestland, Scott, Jamie, Tyler, North, Amos, Liam, Leigh and Anscombe, IF Samson played a part in the Ireland game next weekend and came through ok, I might add another 2nd row or another back, that would be my take on it.

Obviously there will be 3 TH's…but the 3rd will be James hence we will only need 5 props

Gethin, EvANS, francis, Lee, James

wayne wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Reports suggest that Li Williams and Lee are on course to play some part in the Uruguay match so they must be there or there abouts by now.

I agree that he knows about 25/26 of the squad but in all honesty we could have most probably picked most of them a year ago.  

For me the debate surrounds:

The number of props we take (Lees fitness dependant).
2nd row - does he go with all specialists or use King as a utiltiy
The utility back player will it be Anscombe or does he risk M Morgan

Personally, if Lee and Liam are only able to take some part in the Uruguay game, we have to select 3 t/hs as there would be no guarantee that Samson would come through that or any other game unscathed, in that scenario I would select Jarvis as he is the better of 2 evils, I would then have King and Moriarty to go with the 3 established 2nd rows and 4 back row incumbents. For me there is NO debate for the utility, it has to be Anscombe, don't forget I've been watching Mathew Morgan in ALL games until he was allowed to leave us, and when it came to the crunch even Bristol didn't select him, in the scenario I've put together it would have to be 18-13, those 13 would be 3S/Hs, Biggar, Priestland, Scott, Jamie, Tyler, North, Amos, Liam, Leigh and Anscombe, IF Samson played a part in the Ireland game next weekend and came through ok, I might add another 2nd row or another back, that would be my take on it.    

Wayne,

Despite not being a fan of the way Anscombe was brought over here given a DC etc I would also take him ahead of Morgan but I think he will at least be given some consideration.

Gwlad,

Good to see I am not the only one who thinks James would be an option and only go with 5 props instead of 6.

MD,

I would be happy to go with our strongest XV against Ireland and an away win would do the confidence no end of good, however that would depend on what side Ireland out out. Then against Italy and Uruguay put out a strong/mixed side capable of doing the jb and doing it well against Uruguay as we will need the points.

Does anyone know if Gethin or James have played tighthead prop since the new scrum laws were introduced...?

Does anyone know the last game where either of them played tighthead at any point?


I don't think either have played at three in the last four or five years.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

wayne wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Reports suggest that Li Williams and Lee are on course to play some part in the Uruguay match so they must be there or there abouts by now.

I agree that he knows about 25/26 of the squad but in all honesty we could have most probably picked most of them a year ago.  

For me the debate surrounds:

The number of props we take (Lees fitness dependant).
2nd row - does he go with all specialists or use King as a utiltiy
The utility back player will it be Anscombe or does he risk M Morgan

Personally, if Lee and Liam are only able to take some part in the Uruguay game, we have to select 3 t/hs as there would be no guarantee that Samson would come through that or any other game unscathed, in that scenario I would select Jarvis as he is the better of 2 evils, I would then have King and Moriarty to go with the 3 established 2nd rows and 4 back row incumbents. For me there is NO debate for the utility, it has to be Anscombe, don't forget I've been watching Mathew Morgan in ALL games until he was allowed to leave us, and when it came to the crunch even Bristol didn't select him, in the scenario I've put together it would have to be 18-13, those 13 would be 3S/Hs, Biggar, Priestland, Scott, Jamie, Tyler, North, Amos, Liam, Leigh and Anscombe, IF Samson played a part in the Ireland game next weekend and came through ok, I might add another 2nd row or another back, that would be my take on it.    

Wayne,

Despite not being a fan of the way Anscombe was brought over here given a DC etc I would also take him ahead of Morgan but I think he will at least be given some consideration.

Gwlad,

Good to see I am not the only one who thinks James would be an option and only go with 5 props instead of 6.

MD,

I would be happy to go with our strongest XV against Ireland and an away win would do the confidence no end of good, however that would depend on what side Ireland out out.  Then against Italy and Uruguay put out a strong/mixed side capable of doing the jb and doing it well against Uruguay as we will need the points.

What he said, Anscombe at 15 needs a run out too. But i say not our strongest side v Ireland. Strongest side available italy, then this v Uruguay.

James
Owens
Francis
Ball
King
Moriarty
Tipuric
Faletau
Davies
Preistland
Amos
Morgan
S Williams
Cuthbert/Walker
Anscombe

Gethin
Baldwin
Lee
Charters
Lydiate
Williams
Biggar
L Williams

Save the biggest guns for the big game. North, Doc, Half and Warbs should play v Italy and be rested v uruguay?

Gwlad wrote:

What he said, Anscombe at 15 needs a run out too. But i say not our strongest side v Ireland. Strongest side available italy, then this v Uruguay.

James
Owens
Francis
Ball
King
Moriarty
Tipuric
Faletau
Davies
Preistland
Amos
Morgan
S Williams
Cuthbert/Walker
Anscombe

Gethin
Baldwin
Lee
Charters
Lydiate
Williams
Biggar
L Williams

Save the biggest guns for the big game. North, Doc, Half and Warbs should play v Italy and be rested v uruguay?

No, just no!

bedfordwelsh wrote:

MD,

I would be happy to go with our strongest XV against Ireland and an away win would do the confidence no end of good, however that would depend on what side Ireland out out.  Then against Italy and Uruguay put out a strong/mixed side capable of doing the jb and doing it well against Uruguay as we will need the points.

Isn't it Ireland's last but one game? I think they'll stop with the rotation by the time this fixture comes around, with Schmidt looking to get what he believes his first XV to be some game-time together. I think it's best we now play our best team available and hopefully have three wins going into the group match against England. We can't really afford to mess up against Uruguay either. We play them first. Whatever score we put on them is England and Australia's target - that just puts more pressure on Wales.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

What he said, Anscombe at 15 needs a run out too. But i say not our strongest side v Ireland. Strongest side available italy, then this v Uruguay.

James
Owens
Francis
Ball
King
Moriarty
Tipuric
Faletau
Davies
Preistland
Amos
Morgan
S Williams
Cuthbert/Walker
Anscombe

Gethin
Baldwin
Lee
Charters
Lydiate
Williams
Biggar
L Williams

Save the biggest guns for the big game. North, Doc, Half and Warbs should play v Italy and be rested v uruguay?

No, just no!

Agree, that would be a 50 point loss to Ireland with not real positives.

Looking on Glawd it seems about 70% of Welsh fans are expecting us to exit at the pool stages, if thats true for most of Wales then our players are under no pressure and can just relax and enjoy themselves.
Personally I think it's going to be very hard for us to escape this pool, though whomever finishes top are basically playing either Samoa or Scotland in the quarters and probably Ireland or Argentina in the semis so it's a fairly preferable route to the final. We just need to go for it really.

OK so lets nail our colours to the mast. What would your 31 man squad be, the only assumption allowed is that Lee an Li Williams are fit so no if or buts no what you think Gatland will do just your 31.

Here's mine which is a 17/14 forwards backs split

Front Row - Jenkins, James, Evans, Baldwin, Owens, Dacey, Lee and Francis
2nd Rows - AWJ, Ball and Charteris
Back Row - Warburton, Tipuric, Faletau, Lydiate and Moriarty
Utility - King

No9s - Webb, Davies and Ll Williams
No10s - Biggar and Priestland
Centres - Roberts, T Morgan and Sc Williams
Back 3 - Li Williams, Halfpenny, North, Amos and Cuthbert
Utility - Anscombe 1

Beating Ireland in Dublin will be a very big ask. We can't send out an under strength team. We need to use this opportunity to test ourselves.

bedfordwelsh wrote:OK so lets nail our colours to the mast. What would your 31 man squad be, the only assumption allowed is that Lee an Li Williams are fit so no if or buts no what you think Gatland will do just your 31.

Here's mine which is a 17/14 forwards backs split

Front Row - Jenkins, James, Evans, Baldwin, Owens, Dacey, Lee and Francis
2nd Rows - AWJ, Ball and Charteris
Back Row - Warburton, Tipuric, Faletau, Lydiate and Moriarty
Utility - King

No9s - Webb, Davies and Ll Williams
No10s - Biggar and Priestland
Centres - Roberts, T Morgan and  Sc Williams
Back 3 - Li Williams, Halfpenny, North, Amos and Cuthbert
Utility - Anscombe 1

Same as you.

Shifty wrote:Looking on Glawd it seems about 70% of Welsh fans are expecting us to exit at the pool stages, if thats true for most of Wales then our players are under no pressure and can just relax and enjoy themselves.  
Personally I think it's going to be very hard for us to escape this pool, though whomever finishes top are basically playing either Samoa or Scotland in the quarters and probably Ireland or Argentina in the semis so it's a fairly preferable route to the final.  We just need to go for it really.

Shifty,

I honestly don't know how it will go, my heart says we will get through my head just doesn't know. Either way I think the pressure if of us anyway, most will see us as the underdogs, both out big games are away from home which for me is far better than them being in Cardiff.

Let's be having you, then:
https://www.606v2.com/t60201-ireland-v-wales-29-august

mikey_dragon wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

What he said, Anscombe at 15 needs a run out too. But i say not our strongest side v Ireland. Strongest side available italy, then this v Uruguay.

James
Owens
Francis
Ball
King
Moriarty
Tipuric
Faletau
Davies
Preistland
Amos
Morgan
S Williams
Cuthbert/Walker
Anscombe

Gethin
Baldwin
Lee
Charters
Lydiate
Williams
Biggar
L Williams

Save the biggest guns for the big game. North, Doc, Half and Warbs should play v Italy and be rested v uruguay?

No, just no!

Mikey has spoken

Why?

Glwad there's been several posts on here where I've repeated myself. I suggest you read them if you want to know (if you didn't already) why I disagree.