Leicester Tigers Thread 2015/16 A New Beginning Part 1

by Welly Fri 04 Sep 2015, 3:07 pm

First topic message reminder :

2015/16 Senior Squad ATM:
Coaches: Cockerill (DOR), Mauger (HC), Hansen (Defence + Skills Coach), Blaze (Ass. Forwards), Murphy (Ass. Backs)
1/3) Ayerza, Balmain, Brugnara, Cole, Mulipola, Pasquali, Rizzo
2) Youngs, Ghiraldini, Bateman, Thacker
4/5) De Chaves, Fitzgerald, Kitchener, Slater
6/7/8) Crane, Croft, Fonua, McCaffrey, O'Connor, Pearce, Williams
9) Harrison, Kitto, Youngs
10) Burns, Williams
12/13) Bai, Loamanu, Roberts, Smith, Tuilagi
11/14) Benjamin, Betham, Camacho, Goneva, Thompstone,
15) Bell, Morris, Tait

2015/16 Development Squad: Oliver Byrant, Jake Farnworth, George Tresidder, Will Owen

2015/16
Greg Bateman (Exeter)
Mike Williams (Warriors)
Mike Fitzgerald (Chiefs)
Opeti Fonua (Welsh)
Brendon O'Connor (Blues)
Peter Betham (NSW Waratahs)
Lachlan McCaffrey (London Welsh)
Jono Kitto (Bay of Plenty + Cheifs Development Squad)

Transfers Out 2014/15:
Paul Burke (N/A)
Phil Blake (N/A)
Neil McCarthy (Glous)
Tom Price (Scarlets)
Geoff Parling (Exeter)
Neil Briggs (Sale)
Julien Salvi (Exeter)
Pohe (USC)
Brad Thorn (Retirement)
Peterson (Glasgow)
Hamilton (Coventry)
Bristow (Wasps)
R.Williams (?)
Whetton
Hepetema (BoP)
Allen (Retirement)

by formerly known as Sam Sat 07 May 2016, 4:54 pm

I've missed the second half but I did see we've subbed Youngs who it seems is back to his best so it's not a surprise Bath are coming back into it. Benny was our general in the first half and his quick penalties added lots of pace into our game.

by **LondonTiger** Sat 07 May 2016, 4:57 pm

Maxwell-keys keeps getting in the way of our attacks

by **LondonTiger** Sat 07 May 2016, 4:58 pm

Two penalty offences 1m from the line keeps us out for now.

by **LondonTiger** Sat 07 May 2016, 5:06 pm

Will Evans, two down 71 to go.

by **LondonTiger** Sat 07 May 2016, 5:16 pm

Tired of people being allowed to grab a collar and call it a tackle

by **LondonTiger** Sat 07 May 2016, 5:17 pm

Ah well game over. Good effort though.

by king_carlos Sat 07 May 2016, 5:18 pm

Yep that was high on Betham without a doubt LT.

by Welly Sat 07 May 2016, 5:19 pm

Good game looking at the teams would def have taken that score.

by king_carlos Sat 07 May 2016, 5:22 pm

Some very promising performances as well.

Evans was once again everywhere in defence and attack. Slater was looking busier and closer to fitness. Youngs and Owen both had much better games. Jack Roberts is real handful and Catchpole doesn't look out of place in the slightest although he is more of centre than a wing.

Biggest plus were the props though. Genge was fantastic, Balmain carrying much more like he did last season and earlier in this one. Logo looks better for his short rest as well.

by king_carlos Sun 08 May 2016, 6:33 pm

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Leicester-Tigers-prop-Ellis-Genge-spritual-home/story-29245843-detail/story.html

I'd say that's pretty promising words from Cockers with regards to Genge staying. He rarely gives praise like that to guys who he doesn't think/know he'll be working with for some time to come.

by formerly known as Sam Sun 08 May 2016, 7:53 pm

Genge looks like the long term replacement for Ayerza and is a great acquisition by the scouts and coaching staff.

by Welly Mon 09 May 2016, 12:19 pm

Subject to planning Tigers have got Granby halls it seems.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 09 May 2016, 12:25 pm

Welly wrote: Subject to planning Tigers have got Granby halls it seems.

Plans sound interesting, just a shame that redevelopment of the training facilities have been shelved to fund this.

by Welly Mon 09 May 2016, 12:30 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
Welly wrote: Subject to planning Tigers have got Granby halls it seems.

Plans sound interesting, just a shame that redevelopment of the training facilities have been shelved to fund this.

Guess that can be done anytime really.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 09 May 2016, 12:51 pm

What worries me is whether the training facilities are sub-standard and thus affecting performances.

Development of hotel should provide an additional income stream, which we will need if we are to compete with our neighbours down the M-Soixante-neuf

by king_carlos Mon 09 May 2016, 2:27 pm

Putting our players back together after their knees have been destroyed by the Oval Park all weather pitch can't be done anytime though! Last I heard it hadn't been replaced and having trained on similarly outdated all weather pitches this winter I now finally understand the worries of many. After one session you can feel the joints aching an absurd amount.

The Granby Halls plans are undoubtedly good news for the long run, I just fear about the training facilities that are becoming more outdated each season.

by formerly known as Sam Mon 09 May 2016, 5:36 pm

I played at Oval park two or three years back. The all weather pitch was the same then and was awful. Saw the opposition ten get his studs caught and go down, he was carried straight into the ambulance. I understand there's a stand off between Tigers and Wyggs and hence no pitch upgrades will be done whilst the facilities are shared.

by Welly Mon 09 May 2016, 5:42 pm

Academy have moved/are moving.

But as said alot of it ATM is Tigers not wanting to screw over Wyggs (who TBF have not exactly been the best of tenants).

If we could sell the place (We own the freehold right?) that would fund the expansions needed at Scraptoft.

by formerly known as Sam Mon 09 May 2016, 6:41 pm

Oval Park is owned by a trust who leases it to Tigers and Wyggs. Wyggs are looking forward to being the sole tenants as the number of teams currently operating out if Oval Park is anything but optimum.

Academy still play their matches and use the gym at Oval don't they?

by king_carlos Mon 09 May 2016, 7:00 pm

Charlie Beckett - TH - 20
Oliver Bryant - centre/fly half - 21
Wesley Douglas - Wing - 19
Will Evans - flanker - 19
Jake Farnworth - hooker - 21
Alex Galletly - second row - 20
Owen Hills - prop - 19 (will be 20 by start of next season)
Daniel Hogan - prop - 19 (will be 20 by start of next season)
Joe Maksymiw - second row - 20
George Murrin - hooker - ?
George Nairn - hooker - 20
Paolo Odogwu - winger - 19
Will Owen - flanker - 21
Oliver Povoas - flanker - 19
Stone Priestley-Nangle - no 8 - 19
Charlie Thacker - centre - 19
George Tresidder - scrum half - 21
Fred Tuilagi - no 8 - 18
George Worth - full back - 19

That's the development squad this year. With Bryant, Evans and Worth likely to be added to the senior squad for next season along with the possibility of Maksymiw what do we think will be the outcome for the rest?

Tressider is heading to Rotherham. Beckett is with the Lions converting to TH but I'd guess will keep contact with the club similar to Harry Wells.

Povoas is probably a victim of lots of back row competition and being let go. Similar for Priestley-Nangle with Milne highly rated and on-loan at Rosslyn. Galletly is behind Maksymiw so not a surprise if he's let go. Farnworth is likely a case of if he was going to break through he would have done.

The ones who would be a real shame to lose are Odogwu, Charlie Thacker, Will Owen, Owen Hills and Hogan. Could it be a case of what a few of us were calling for and those guys going out on season loans to championship clubs so that they can get real game time for a season to keep developing?

by formerly known as Sam Mon 09 May 2016, 7:11 pm

I'd have thought Tuilagi, Hills and Hogan would all remain in the development squad for another season in order to develop. Charlie Thacker maybe as well. Agree on the rest, Will Owen needs to be playing at his age. He's spent too long not playing with us, other than occasional game time at Doncaster. A season in the Championship should be high in his priorities with a Wells style association so he can play in the LV.

by king_carlos Mon 09 May 2016, 7:24 pm

The reason I list that many as going out to Championship clubs is the rumour that there's a big clear out of the development squad coming to make room for the academy guys coming through. Apparently only 3 or 4 of them will be retained with Odogwu reportedly one of those outgoing.

I'd actually be in favour of Hills and Hogan going out to championship clubs for a full season loan. Props take longer to come through and the best way to learn how to scrummage is on the job. We've seen how props can stall with Brugnara, Tiz and Sio seemingly falling by the wayside as things currently stand. None of them have had significant game time this year.

Having come through to the development squad young I'd hope that Fred Tuilagi gets given another season. With new coaches there is the possibility that they simply don't see what others did in certain players though.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 09 May 2016, 7:47 pm

I guess much of it depends on what they mean by the development squad. The match day programmes list quite a small number of players (too lazy to go to the car and get one) but pretty much just the guys on the website with pics.

everyone who was under 20 at the start of the season is, at least for accounting purposes, still in the academy.

by formerly known as Sam Mon 09 May 2016, 8:05 pm

I think players under a certain age (might be 21) only count towards the cap if they play more than a certain number of games.

by king_carlos Tue 10 May 2016, 11:23 am

Crane confirmed as leaving. A great club man but understandable that he would want more game time and a pay rise. Delighted now that what will likely be his last Tigers appearance at the weekend was his best performance for a long while.

1.Marcos, Logo, Genge, Rizzo
2.Youngs, Thacker, McGuigan, Bateman
3.Cole, Balmain, Cilliers
4.Slater, Barrow
5.Kitchener, Fitzgerald
6.Williams, Croft
7.BOC, Evans
8.Locky, Fonau

With Genge looking very likely to stay that is the pack we are looking at for next season at current.

To that we still need to add IMO:

A project lock - Maksymiw and/or Wells
A flanker who can cover 8 - Looks likely to be Hamilton
A squad 8 - Perhaps Paul Grant or bring Ed Milne back in?

The situation with Brugnara and Pasquali still needs to be sorted. Last rumours were that Tiz is heading off elsewhere but Brugnara is staying for another season.

by lostinwales Tue 10 May 2016, 11:53 am

Are there any long term concerns over Tom Youngs? He's been out for a while now.

by king_carlos Tue 10 May 2016, 12:00 pm

Youngs had surgery to correct a problem with a disk in his back and he was expected to miss the rest of the season. At the time Cockers said it was a fairly minor surgery (a statement I struggle to get my head around with disk problems!) and Tom would make a full recovery and be ready to hit preseason at decent fitness.

For a front row a back problem is never good but it depends on how the surgery, his rehab and return to contact goes really. Until he gets back on the field it will be impossible to tell for certain if it will affect him long term.

by formerly known as Sam Tue 10 May 2016, 12:25 pm

I thought I heard at the time that they could have rushed Youngs back for the end of the season but didn't want to risk it. Sensible stance given how important he is to us.

Crane has been a great servant but I thought no its the right time for him to make a move. How many signings we need in the backrow is probably dependent on whether Owen and Milne are coming into the first team squad. If yes then Hamilton is signing enough, if no then we probably need another.

I though Aguero and Rizzo were both off this summer?

by Welly Tue 10 May 2016, 1:19 pm

Rizzo isn't, Aguero I think might be retiring.

by formerly known as Sam Tue 10 May 2016, 1:26 pm

Rizzo I'm not sure whether it's worth retaining. Will he really be higher than fourth in the pecking order and if he is, is he not just blocking the progress of younger players with potential?

by **LondonTiger** Tue 10 May 2016, 1:51 pm

Stats for last weekends game are marginally interesting.

http://www.premiershiprugby.com/matchcentre/fixtures/match_centre.php?section=teamstats&fixid=206992#LFXzQIyVDSETlBXG.97

Key one to explain the loss is the 21 turnovers conceded.

by Welly Tue 10 May 2016, 1:55 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:Rizzo I'm not sure whether it's worth retaining. Will he really be higher than fourth in the pecking order and if he is, is he not just blocking the progress of younger players with potential?

Well he is in contract soooooo

by king_carlos Tue 10 May 2016, 2:08 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Stats for last weekends game are marginally interesting.

http://www.premiershiprugby.com/matchcentre/fixtures/match_centre.php?section=teamstats&fixid=206992#LFXzQIyVDSETlBXG.97

Key one to explain the loss is the 21 turnovers conceded.

Bath 10 scrums won and 1 lost. Tigers 3 scrums won and none lost. I can't decide from those stats whether that means we had put in twice, winning both and the 1 against the head. Or if we had put in three times and won all three with the 1 against the head not added to scrums won.

Either way Bath had put-in at 11 scrums and we had put in at only 2 or 3. That is representative of too much ball coughed up.

The carries, metres made, passes, off loads, clean breaks and defenders beaten for Tigers all represent how Mauger is trying to get them playing more rugby when it's on. The turnovers and end result is representative that it's a game plan that is still setting in, especially for the inexperienced side we had out.

5 rucks lost out of 105 is an excellent return for a second string pack up against Louw, who played well I thought. Likewise 4 rucks turned over out of 58 for Bath is a good return for our back row on the day.

by king_carlos Tue 10 May 2016, 2:14 pm

Welly wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:Rizzo I'm not sure whether it's worth retaining. Will he really be higher than fourth in the pecking order and if he is, is he not just blocking the progress of younger players with potential?

Well he is in contract soooooo

If he is happy to stay and honour his contract I'd happily keep him. It gives good depth and allows rotation. Marcos has been played into the ground this year. If we want as close to his best as possible out of him for the rest of his 3 year contract then he needs more rest over the coming seasons. An experienced bloke at LH who is solid at set-piece allows that.

As for younger players coming through. Hills and Hogan at 19 realistically need another season.

Judging by this season at least it seems the coaches want Brugnara and Pasquali to improve a fair bit before they will be regular options. For either to do that they need game time week in week out, regardless of whether Rizzo is ahead of them or not they won't be getting that in the first team. Championship rugby for a season would best serve both IMO.

by formerly known as Sam Tue 10 May 2016, 3:45 pm

I'm happy to keep Rizzo as fourth choice and an experienced back up I just don't want him interrupting Genge's transition into the first team. Not site Rizzo as an international prop will be so keen on being that far down the pecking order.

Brugnara and Pas both need extended game time next season. Both have had some game time at Doncaster but not really enough. Pas definitely needs the sort of finishing experience Cole got from his time in the Championship. Shame we're not getting on with Notts so well these days.

by king_carlos Tue 10 May 2016, 4:18 pm

Rizzo will be 34 by the start of the season. With COS coming in as Italy coach and some young Italian props coming through the chances of him getting another look in internationally will be limited. Given that Aguero, the starter at the RWC before Rizzo got injured, was left out for the 6 Nations it would be a shock if they went back to either.

I expect it will come down to what Rizzo wants to do. If he doesn't want to be there as a squad option then I can't imagine Cockers would be upset about terminating his contract given we have some depth. If on the other hand Rizzo is happy to come back from injury with a lighter work load then he might be keen to stay offering cover for rotation. He comes across as a good scrum technician so he might be keen to try his hand a coaching a touch as well.

It's a good situation for both parties really. If he's settled and wants to stay I expect most fans and the coaches will be happy to keep his services for the depth and experience. If he wants maximum game time or a chance at another few caps then a return to Italy with a new coach could serve him well and likely wouldn't disrupt Tigers plans for next season too drastically.

by king_carlos Tue 10 May 2016, 4:30 pm

As for disrupting Genge... I think Genge is already a better player so that feels unlikely to happen!

The best way to get good relations with the championship clubs is probably to offer them players on full season loans rather than giving them guys for the odd game. The level in the championship has risen massively over the last few seasons. Younger players can no longer be sent down for the the odd couple of games and be guaranteed a start because they are far above the level of those they are replacing. The depth at Championship clubs are much better and for development players to make a real difference they need to train a decent amount with them. Parachuting them in no longer has the same impact on games and messes with the rest of their squad who get shunted around to accommodate them.

by formerly known as Sam Tue 10 May 2016, 5:29 pm

I think you're right with the Championship clubs Carlos. At the minute our players are pretty much cover players signed when there's some injuries and the Championship club want a cheap replacement. I would like to see the props being sent out for the full 12 months, Brugnara is already in at Doncaster and Notts would probably entertain Bryant (given Mugford has left for Sale) and Pas as good options.

We only need those players back come LV time which should coincide with the B&I cup where most Championship teams experiment with some of their home grown players anyway.

by Welly Tue 10 May 2016, 5:58 pm

Pas is off Def.

Wuss I believe.

by formerly known as Sam Tue 10 May 2016, 6:52 pm

Good move for him. He carries the ball well and the Wuss pack work well as a unit at the scrum. He should fit in and get game time there next season.

by formerly known as Sam Tue 10 May 2016, 9:18 pm

Mulipola not included in the Samoa squad for this summer, listed as unavailable due to a knee injury.

by king_carlos Tue 10 May 2016, 9:26 pm

Probably not good news for the play-offs but it either means he's getting the summer off to recover or an operation to try to fix the issue which is good in the long run. It's been affecting him for a while now whilst he's tried to play through it so I'm glad to hear that something is being done to address the issue.

If he's unavailable for Sarries then it's a good job that Genge and Balmain looked good against Bath. For all the deserved Genge plaudits I thought that Balmain was also looking back to his best after a lull this season. He was solid in the scrum and carrying more like his usual self.

by formerly known as Sam Tue 10 May 2016, 9:37 pm

I think Balmain has done ok this season. He's played a lot more rugby than he'd have expected at the start of the season and developed well over the course.

I liked how he and Genge operated in tandem and Balmain took his try well. If we've lost Mulipola to injury then the two young guns can offer carrying impetus off the bench vs Sarries and we might need that.

by TG Wed 11 May 2016, 7:47 pm

Mike Cleary being ..... Mike CLeary

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2016/05/02/leicester-tigers-put-their-city-on-the-map-long-before-footballs/

by **LondonTiger** Wed 11 May 2016, 8:42 pm

One of Cleary's better articles - but an appalling headline from the sub-editor.

by TG Wed 11 May 2016, 9:51 pm

I thought it came across as sour grapes.

by Welly Wed 11 May 2016, 9:53 pm

Same TBH.

by **LondonTiger** Wed 11 May 2016, 10:01 pm

I thought it was complimentary about both football clubs in Leicester.

by **LondonTiger** Thu 12 May 2016, 9:48 am

Saracens finally sent us our allocation of tickets to go on sale today.

Tickets priced from£26-£62 with the vast majority being uncovered. Having sat in those seats before, I am not willing to do it again.

by formerly known as Sam Thu 12 May 2016, 12:00 pm

What your saying is anyone who goes should take both sun cream and a rain proof poncho just to be prepared for all elements of the British springtime. Surprising such a new ground has so much uncovered seating.

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