Leicester Tigers Thread 2015/16 A New Beginning Part 1

[Welly]

First topic message reminder :


2015/16 Senior Squad ATM:
Coaches: Cockerill (DOR), Mauger (HC), Hansen (Defence + Skills Coach), Blaze (Ass. Forwards), Murphy (Ass. Backs)
1/3) Ayerza, Balmain, Brugnara, Cole, Mulipola, Pasquali, Rizzo
2) Youngs, Ghiraldini, Bateman, Thacker
4/5) De Chaves, Fitzgerald, Kitchener, Slater
6/7/8) Crane, Croft, Fonua, McCaffrey, O'Connor, Pearce, Williams
9) Harrison, Kitto, Youngs
10) Burns, Williams
12/13) Bai, Loamanu, Roberts, Smith, Tuilagi
11/14) Benjamin, Betham, Camacho, Goneva, Thompstone,
15) Bell, Morris, Tait

2015/16 Development Squad: Oliver Byrant, Jake Farnworth, George Tresidder,  Will Owen

2015/16
Greg Bateman (Exeter)
Mike Williams (Warriors)
Mike Fitzgerald (Chiefs)
Opeti Fonua (Welsh)
Brendon O'Connor (Blues)
Peter Betham (NSW Waratahs)
Lachlan McCaffrey (London Welsh)
Jono Kitto (Bay of Plenty + Cheifs Development Squad)

Transfers Out 2014/15:
Paul Burke (N/A)
Phil Blake (N/A)
Neil McCarthy (Glous)
Tom Price (Scarlets)
Geoff Parling (Exeter)
Neil Briggs (Sale)
Julien Salvi (Exeter)
Pohe (USC)
Brad Thorn (Retirement)
Peterson (Glasgow)
Hamilton (Coventry)
Bristow (Wasps)
R.Williams (?)
Whetton
Hepetema (BoP)
Allen (Retirement)

[LondonTiger]

What your saying is anyone who goes should take both sun cream and a rain proof poncho just to be prepared for all elements of the British springtime. Surprising such a new ground has so much uncovered seating.

They have not really developed the facilities yet. Nt sure if players still get changed in portakabins.

[king_carlos]

Hamilton confirmed. Below is a short highlights package of him from YouTube. Compilations such as that can massively exaggerate a player but he does seem to offer more than the Lydiate esque tackler he seemed touted as. Judging by those clips he has a turn of pace, good hands and runs some nice lines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x09Q0lGX49o

It could be a shrewd signing and should makes fkaS happy given it spells another move towards a more mobile back row. He has played across 6/7/8 just as Lachie had when signing and he seems to offer mobility in attack as well as work rate in defence.

It'll be frustrating to lose Will Owen as he'll surely now need to move on for any game time to develop. He seems a real talent and hopefully kicks on in the Championship then comes back a better player. Evans leapfrogging him and excelling as he has makes it difficult to keep another young 7 who needs senior game time though.

PS: Sorry for the song behind that video, probably watch on mute!

[Welly]

Owen will prob def be off.

Trouble is he doesn't fit the mould of 6 we want by the looks of it, and O'Connor, Evans and Maybe Thacker will be ahead of him.

Hamilton shrewd signing hopefully similar to McCaffrey but has more size about him and tackles more like Williams.

Can't be many more signings left now.

[king_carlos]

Agree completely Welly. Nope I expect they're very close to finished. Toomua, JPP, Brady, McGuigan, Cilliers and Hamilton confirmed in. Evans, Bryant and Worth probably going to join them. It sounds extremely likely that Genge will be staying as well.

1.Ayerza, Logo, Genge, Rizzo, Brugnara?
2.Youngs, Thacker, McGuigan, Bateman
3.Cole, Baltrain, Cilliers
4.Slater, Barrow
5.Kitchener, Fitzgerald
6.Williams, Croft, Hamilton
7.O'Connor, Evans
8.McCaffery, Fonau

9.Youngs, Harrison, Kitto
10.Burns, Williams

11.JPP, Brady
12.Toomua, Smith, Bryant
13.Tuilagi, Catchpole, Roberts
14.Betham, Thompstone
15.Veainu, Tait, Worth

As squad cover I think we could still see:

Either another back three player if Betham is still viewed as second choice centre or another centre if Betham is wanted more in the back three - with Roberts and Catchpole needing game time I'd prefer a back three player.

Another second row - probably Wells and/or Maksymiw.

Another number 8 - Paul Grant was rumoured a bit back and Ed Milne coming back would be a popular addition.

[formerly known as Sam]

If Hamilton is just a bigger Lachie I'll be very happy. That should finish the back row recruitment. We can use Thacker in there if we need to and there are certain advantages to that as well.

I'd prefer to use academy players to fill the wing spaces though if we could acquire a winger that can also play 15 it might be for the best, especially if he has a cannon of a boot on him.

Any more signings will depend on who stays from the development squad. The likes of Owen and Tuilagi could fill roles in the back row but if they're released then another layer may be required. Same if both Bryant and Umaga go.

[Welly]

Reckon Bryant, Worth and Evans are defs, the rest who knows.

Would like to keep Thacker, Odogwu, Beckett, Maksymiw, Hogan, Hills, Fred jnr

BUT it sounds like many are being let go. (For various reasons)

~Guess we will find out.

[formerly known as Sam]

I'd still be surprised if they let Fred go, he's a real mobile unit and a Tuilagi to boot. Under the careful guidance of Mauger he could develop the skill set to be a truly outstanding talent.

Cockers has said that BOC, Manu and Fitzgerald are all fit for the weekend.

[king_carlos]

Fred is only 18 so I'd guess he's one of the more likely to be safe. The guys who are 20/21 and not making much headway will likely be let go though. They need game time to develop and the club need room for another good academy batch to come through.

Hills and Hogan I hope are dual contracted but allowed to go out to a Championship side for a full season. Charlie Thacker would also benefit from a full season in the Championship or at least with the Lions. Beckett is probably going to be similar situation to Harry Wells where he trains predominantly with the Lions whilst converting to TH but also has contact with the squad when possible.

As for Odogwu, who knows. If the rumours are correct that he's moving on then something behind the scenes must have happened as he's extremely talented. If he stays I'd like him dual registered and getting a full season in the Championship under his belt. Let's hope for the best there basically!

[formerly known as Sam]

Sadly we don't seem to be able to get that many loans with the Championship sorted. It's such a tough league these days that those deals aren't always on offer.

[king_carlos]

Clubs who don't offer full season loans are struggling, sides who are offering dual contracts and allowing their players to commit fully to a championship side for the best of their development are managing fine - Sarries with Bedford.

The Championship is now at a level where senior academy players can't get parachuted into a side and make a big impact due to their better fitness and core skills. These days parachuting guys in does little more than annoy the rest of the squad who have busted *** through pre-season and endless training sessions only to see their mates pushed aside.

If Tigers are proactive and offer guys such as Hills, Hogan and Charlie Thacker on dual contracts early so that they can be involved in pre-season with both Tigers and the partnering club then Championship coaches should bite with players that talented.

[Welly]

Might well be other factors to Tigers releasing youngster that complicate things.

[formerly known as Sam]

So what do we think we need for next season so we can overturn these semi final failings?

Defence coach addition? Fullback capable of tactical kicking? A skills coach that can teach our players to catch?

[Geordie]

What's the thoughts on thacker Sam. With Youngs back from injury next season, will he likely move to the back row, or do you think he will be a Hooker only.

[formerly known as Sam]

Well Geordie about two months ago the verdict was unanimous, he'd be in the back row as we needed another seven anyway and there is also real tactical advantages to him throwing in and our hooker being in the the line ready to drive with the two props, lots of weight behind the rolling maul very quickly etc.

However, then young Evans got a chance to show what he could do, he certainly didn't hold back. To the point where at 19 Evans was selected before Croft, Crane and Fonua for the bench spot vs Sarries in the play offs. The kid can most certainly play ball in hand (audacious out of the back flick on his debut) and is very handy at the breakdown (remarkably so given his age and the step up in intensity). That has put the cat amongst the pigeons.

Thacker has been one of our best players in the second half of the season, his lineout work is comfortably the best at the club, his work around the park is more back row, he's a bugger to put down when he has the ball and if you don't gang tackle him well just ask Northampton. The only issue is his scrummaging. That's getting better though he won't be a destructive scrummager anytime soon if ever, Ayerza gave an interesting interview where he said the best scrummaging hooker he ever played with was Mefin Davies who wasn't big but had great technique. He felt that if Thacker worked hard on his technique he'd do fine. We've not as a club necessarily gone for the biggest hookers previously, Cockers being another example of that. So I don't really know, I suspect it depends on whether Evans or McGuigan make the most impact next season because currently it's hard to leave out Thacker.

[Geordie]

Interesting to hear Sam.

At least it's a positive headache...Having so many good young players to worry about.

I still have a suspicion he may move back, but I don't have as much knowledge of the club as you.

Will Youngs not be your first choice when he returns though.

[formerly known as Sam]

Youngs will be first choice. There's always a concern with a front row player and a back injury but he's been given a long time off to sort it so hopefully next season he'll be flying.

It's the back up hooker that may be more of a headache as McGuigan and Bateman are both big, powerful units that can scrummage and get round the park well. Neither can hit the broadside of the barn at the lineout though. Then there's Thacker so it'll be interesting to see which way we go. Normally I'd expect us to go with size but we seem to be learning that's not always the answer.

Evans is a special talent, he's in the England under 20s squad for the JWC. Nice to see us start to churn out some gems after a brief dry patch.

[Welly]

McGuigan seems to be alright at the lineout was good v Saracens.

It depends on the props IMO IF Thacker size is hurting them against bigger front rows (Saracens) then IMO McGuigan will be 2nd choice.

[Geordie]

McGuigans throwing isn't brilliant but its not appalling. And he will continue to improve it.

Also the hooker doesn't have to throw if for example Thacker is at flanker it takes his height issue out of the lineout aswell if he throws.

[formerly known as Sam]

That's why I liked the idea of Thacker at 7. Great lineout throw and you can orchestrate it so that the jumper comes down with the entire front row ready to drive him forward. Very strong base for the rolling maul. It's whether Thacker can keep Evans behind him in the blindside pecking order.

Agreed Welly, it could be horses for courses depending on he size of the opposition scrum. It'll also be a development race, can McGuigan improve his throwing faster than Thacker can improve his scrummaging.

[king_carlos]

Tiz has confirmed on twitter that he is leaving. No confirmation as to where but Treviso is being rumoured now rather than Worcs. Either would be a good move with Treviso putting him on the Italy radar with COS and Worcs likely to offer him more game time in a pack that he would fit into well.

He was always a likeable personality and looked a real talent when he first broke into the first team squad with a few eye catching moments from his carrying. He was inevitably going to move on after his lack of game time this season though.

[formerly known as Sam]

Yeah it's a shame he's off but with Balmain doing well in the development spot there's not much room for him. At Treviso he could get a lot of game time and maybe European rugby as well.

[Welly]

Genge confirmed staying

[LondonTiger]

Genge confirmed staying

Link?

[LondonTiger]

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Tigers-set-tie-long-term-deal-Bristol-prop-Ellis/story-29321197-detail/story.html

Done it myself

[formerly known as Sam]

I wonder if a little more championship recruitment might be done. Steadman at 8 and Jarvis at 15 for Donny last night would be useful squad additions.

[Welly]

Yeh both looked good.

Hurrell looked good aswell but I would avoid him TBH based on when he came through our setup.

[king_carlos]

Delighted with Genge. For a few seasons fans have spoken about getting more bite back in the pack. With more bulk across the board, Genge as an option at LH and OTY/Mike Williams returning from injury our pack for next season will look much more imposing compared to the two semi-finals.

Hamilton looks like a big bloke who offers some mobility as well.

I think most sides in the Prem could learn from how Exeter recruit from the Championship. The lower leagues have got so much stronger over the last 3 seasons and there are some unpolished gems to be picked up if clubs back them. Nev Edwards is a great story there.

IMO we still need a project/squad second row and number 8 to complete the pack - both of these I'd hope to come from the academy or Championship.

For the backs an outside centre or wing (depending on where Betham will be used more). Another goal kicking back three player to replace Tommy Bell would be useful too, currently Williams and Burns will be our only two reliable goal kickers in the squad.

[formerly known as Sam]

Toomua is a decent goal kicker and Bryant did alright vs Quins.

[king_carlos]

I think people presume that of Toomua because he's played 10 but from what I've seen it's far from the case! In 75 Brumbies appearances over 8 seasons he's only kicked 4 conversions and no pens. His kicking from hand is strong but from the tee best not to think about.

I rate almost all of Bryants game highly as a distributing 10/12 but his goal kicking is a weakness and one reason I think he's best off at 12 rather than 10 - similar to Toomua early in his career really.

We're going to need a better 3rd choice kicker especially when Freddie and Owen seem to have an allergy to being fit at the same time. Tommy saved us in a few games in mid season when both were crocked.

[formerly known as Sam]

I would like us to sign a tactical full back. Someone with a cannon of a boot that can put us into the right areas. Goode is great at it for Sarries and it's a weakness for us. If that tactical kicker could also be a weapon under the high ball and tackle like a flanker that would be nice. It'd give us a wet weather option.

Harrison and Youngs can both kick. We've seen Burns transform his percentages through working with Grayson, why don't we take him on as a foal kicking coach and have him spend time with a selection of players and give us kicking options across the back line. I suspect that Betham could probably be a solid 70% kicker in an emergency.

Bryant I've always thought lacked power in his kicking, getting sailing towards the posts less of an issue. Similar with his kicking from hand which is skillful but short ranged. Don't know how fixable that is.

Bell was a very handy option but played far too deep at ten and didn't pose much running threat at 15. Good wet weather option at 15.

[Welly]

A goal kicking back 3 is too narrow a search IMO, when you think Bell also always considered himself a 10 more than a 15. I just feel it would be better to look for a good back 3 player.

[formerly known as Sam]

I just want the wet weather back three player with the cannon instead of a foot. I think we have enough competent footballers that one or two can take on additional kicking duties. We saw it with Youngs cs SA in 2009. Players that aren't specialist kickers can learn to do the job.

[king_carlos]

Rob Cook is being released by Gloucs apparently. He'd supply that extra goal kicker and is also capable of fireworks ball in hand. His defence adds less to the squad though...

I'd be very happy with another wing who just offers something different to those already signed. Walker would be fantastic for this given he's rapid and an elusive runner.

I want to see TV more at FB next season, with Tait still around and Worth likely coming up we have a nice batch of FBs already. That extra kicker would settle my nerves about injuries but getting one at a decent wage as squad only cover might be difficult now I actually apply my brain to my thinking out loud!

[Welly]

Worth is a kicker as well (Well tactically not goal kicker) he seems to switch between 15, 10 and the midfield regularly.

Walker won't be leaving Quins ATM he is still in contract.

FB wise Ransom might be an interesting pick up.

[formerly known as Sam]

Ransom would fit in well with what we have already. Little surprised he hasn't been picked up by a club fairly quickly. Maybe it'll be announced after the final this weekend. He's got a lot if potential. Not sure he offers enough tactical kicking options from back to be my ideal choice.

[Welly]

And so begins the long off season.

Hopefully some recruitment news soon.

fortunately we SHOULD def have available fit and ready pre season
LH: Ayerza (If Argentina stick to their guns), Rizzo, Brugnara
H: Youngs (Although not sure on his progress), Thacker, Bateman
TH: Logo, Cilliers, Balmain
L: Slater, Kitchener, Barrow, Fitzgerald
BR: Williams, O'Connor, McCaffrey, Hamilton, Croft, Fonua
SH: Harrison, Kitto
FH: Burns, Williams
IC: Smith, Roberts
OC: Catchpole
B3: Veainu, Betham, Thompstone, Tait, Brady

(Assuming since they do not have any rugby left now till preseason).

Really hope Ayerza gets a full summer off.

[formerly known as Sam]

What's wrong with McGuigan? Is he injured or did I miss his announcement in the Saxons squad?

Manu should be fit and raring to go by pre season as well shouldn't he? I'd hope Slater and Multipola will have completed rehab by then as well.

[Welly]

Not mentioning any players who have rugby still to play. Might jinx it.

[formerly known as Sam]

Mulipola, Slater and Manu have no games to play before pre season. McGuigan only if he's in the Saxons squad.

[Welly]

Mulipola, Slater and Manu have no games to play before pre season. McGuigan only if he's in the Saxons squad.

McGuigan is in the Saxons team hence not mentioning him

[formerly known as Sam]

Understandable we have bad luck with England and our players fitness. Hope he comes back healthy.

[king_carlos]

I'm really surprised that TV has been left out of the Tonga squad for their June internationals. It feels a bit like Sinoti missing out on the Samoa RWC training squad!

It's also interesting to note that Cooper Vuna is in that Tonga squad. Having represented Tonga in rugby league back in '08 he then converted and was capped in union by Australia in '12. Now he is about to be capped for Tonga in union as well.

[formerly known as Sam]

That's an interesting one. Well interesting two. Cooper Vuna switching countries could set a dangerous precedent and why oh why would you select Cooper Vuna over TV! ?!

[Welly]

Jacob Umaga ----> Wasps.

[king_carlos]

Jacob Umaga ----> Wasps.

If he'd been heading to NZ it would have been frustrating but understandable that uncle Tana might have turned his head. Losing him to Wasps really is infuriating though.

Rumour is that Wasps offered him much more money for a first senior contract than Tigers would have been willing too. If that's the case then I've got to agree with the club that shelling out money for an unproven 17 year old would be very risky. Hence let him go if his head has been turned.

It sets a worrying precedent though if AP clubs are now shelling out big checks for kids when they are still a part of another clubs academy.

[Welly]

Umaga is a bit different i guess.

His name has a big draw.

although doesn't say much for loyalty if true, usually you expect academy players to be willing to go down in wage demands not up.

[king_carlos]

From chatting to my uncle who's a long time season ticket holder he said the rumours around the fans was that Bath and another Prem club (Wasps we can now assume!) offered Jacob a lot of money and Tigers weren't willing to raise their offer above what talented academy graduates would usually get.

I expect that the loyal band of idiots who try to criticise Cockers and Cohen at very turn will claim that it might also be due to a few academy talents in recent years stagnating due to lack of game time or having to move on to get a chance. Given Jacob has had exposure in pre-season and A-league games I doubt that's the case though. It's just seems more a case that his head was turned and Tigers couldn't turn it back.

It's a shame and very frustrating though because he looked a real talent.

[formerly known as Sam]

Wasps have no development fly half. We have Bryant. I Suppose he may have looked at it like he'll probably be third choice at Wasps and Gopperth isn't getting any younger and Cips could be away with England. At Tigers there's Freddie, Williams and Bryant plus the possibility of Toomua covering 10 as well. If Wasps are offering substantially more money then you could also understand why he'd take that, he can commute easily from home and have more cash in his back pocket.

A loss for us. A shame he didn't feel any loyalty towards the club but if he's more interested in the cash or didn't want to be in the set up it's better he goes now than stays and deprives people who want to stay of game time.

[LondonTiger]

I see that Wasps have also signed up Jarod Leat from LI, a team-mates of Jacob's in Englands U18 team. The pair share an agent.


17 year old players with an agent.

[formerly known as Sam]

I suppose it makes more sense than a thirty five year old veteran having an agent.

[Sponsored content]