Leicester Tigers Thread 2015/16 A New Beginning Part 1

by Welly Fri 04 Sep 2015, 3:07 pm

First topic message reminder :

2015/16 Senior Squad ATM:
Coaches: Cockerill (DOR), Mauger (HC), Hansen (Defence + Skills Coach), Blaze (Ass. Forwards), Murphy (Ass. Backs)
1/3) Ayerza, Balmain, Brugnara, Cole, Mulipola, Pasquali, Rizzo
2) Youngs, Ghiraldini, Bateman, Thacker
4/5) De Chaves, Fitzgerald, Kitchener, Slater
6/7/8) Crane, Croft, Fonua, McCaffrey, O'Connor, Pearce, Williams
9) Harrison, Kitto, Youngs
10) Burns, Williams
12/13) Bai, Loamanu, Roberts, Smith, Tuilagi
11/14) Benjamin, Betham, Camacho, Goneva, Thompstone,
15) Bell, Morris, Tait

2015/16 Development Squad: Oliver Byrant, Jake Farnworth, George Tresidder, Will Owen

2015/16
Greg Bateman (Exeter)
Mike Williams (Warriors)
Mike Fitzgerald (Chiefs)
Opeti Fonua (Welsh)
Brendon O'Connor (Blues)
Peter Betham (NSW Waratahs)
Lachlan McCaffrey (London Welsh)
Jono Kitto (Bay of Plenty + Cheifs Development Squad)

Transfers Out 2014/15:
Paul Burke (N/A)
Phil Blake (N/A)
Neil McCarthy (Glous)
Tom Price (Scarlets)
Geoff Parling (Exeter)
Neil Briggs (Sale)
Julien Salvi (Exeter)
Pohe (USC)
Brad Thorn (Retirement)
Peterson (Glasgow)
Hamilton (Coventry)
Bristow (Wasps)
R.Williams (?)
Whetton
Hepetema (BoP)
Allen (Retirement)

by Welly Tue 16 Feb 2016, 12:57 pm

Mike has been here since 1995.

Think his wife is English (not sure).

I think Jacob has been in England his whole life.

by **LondonTiger** Tue 16 Feb 2016, 2:23 pm

Ah yeah. I forgot his time in Halifax.

by king_carlos Tue 16 Feb 2016, 3:30 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:Given Burns went off with a head knock I doubt he'll be available. Bell should return and Bryant looked completely comfortable off the bench vs Falcons. He had no nerves stopping his flat miss passes flying perfectly to hand. I'd have just liked to see more of him than two phases of attack.

If JDV and Manu are both fit then I'd consider resting Smith who looks tired and understandably so. Roberts played well off the bench and I'd not be concerned about involving him.

I'd managed to push the fly half worries to the back of my mind! Doh

It sounds like Bell and Bai may be struggling as well. In which case I can only guess Bryant would have to start.

Cockers has confirmed today that all of Tom Youngs, Slater, Manu, JDV and O'Connor will play a part on Friday which is great news. If Bryant starts then Smith may well stay at 12 to keep some continuity, I just can't see JDV and Manu being thrown in alongside young Oli as well.

by formerly known as Sam Tue 16 Feb 2016, 4:12 pm

Well it will be a great chance for Bryant to stake a claim ahead of next season. He must be desperate to establish himself as the understudy at 12 as his game is much closer to what we are looking to recruit than Smith, despite Smith's incredible form this season.

What could be a concern is that I believe Bryant has a fairly poor kicking game off the tee so we might need someone else to step up in that department. Maybe Harrison. If Bryant is at 12 we'll need to get as much experience around him as possible. A Smith/Manu midfield with Tait at 15 and JDV on the bench. That way we can always use Tait coming into the line as a second playmaker but keep the midfield strong in defence.

by king_carlos Tue 16 Feb 2016, 4:55 pm

Having a few pack leaders such as Slater, Tom Youngs and O'Connor back will help too. If we can give Bryant a platform to release Manu, TV, Betham and Tait from then he should be fine. Especially given how good Harrison is at providing good service when given quick ball.

Youngs and Slater plus Pearce hopefully starting would also add the brute force needed to get over the gain line.

Who would cover 10 from the bench though? Next in line from the academy would be Jacob Umaga! In a couple of A-league games Worth has sat on the bench in he 22 shirt but that was more getting guys in the 23 than any indication he'd cover 10, from what I know he's an out and out full back.

Harrison has kicked from tee occasionally so he could be given the duties to take a bit of pressure off.

by formerly known as Sam Tue 16 Feb 2016, 6:41 pm

Umaga could well be covering on the bench. I think he did that earlier in the season. Botica will be at ten for Quins with Evans out. He's not a ten for being on the back foot he's very much one to attack ball in hand. That's a relief, hopefully that means we won't suffer a Goode esque schooling in tactical play like last Friday.

Hopefully our returning players allow us boss it up front and we just dominate possession.

by king_carlos Wed 17 Feb 2016, 9:30 pm

Welly wrote: Odogwu isn't AP rugby ready and wont for another 2 or so seasons IMO.

Also Smith isn't an option anymore on the wing IMO and has Tait played Wing?

You did forget Morris.

You could still have
Goneva --> JPP
Loamanu -> Brady
Benjamin -> Odowgu

though and would work out cheaper in terms of cap space.

Hopping over from the transfers page so as not to take it over with Tigers chat!

I think as a 6th (or even 7th) choice Odogwu is talented enough to take that space. If we end up in an injury crisis then wingers are usually easy to pick up mid season anyway.

9.Youngs, Harrison, Kitto + Tressider/White
10.Burns, Williams + Bryant/Umaga
11.Veainu, Thompstone + Odogwu
12.Toomua, Smith, Bryant
13.Tuilagi, JPP, Catchpole + possibly Roberts
14.Betham, Benjamin/Camacho, Brady
15.Tait, Morris

With the versatility of JPP, Betham, Tait and TV I'd be happy with that as wing resources.

I'd rather keep Benjamin than Camacho if possible though.

by Welly Wed 17 Feb 2016, 9:37 pm

Would be happy with that set of backs TBH.

Forwards need some signings
couple of props maybe
McGuigan
Number 8
And see who is going and replace accordingly.

by No 7&1/2 Wed 17 Feb 2016, 9:41 pm

Will Tuilagi not be moving to 12 for you guys?

by **LondonTiger** Wed 17 Feb 2016, 9:47 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Will Tuilagi not be moving to 12 for you guys?

Toomua will be the first choice 12 I would think.

by Welly Wed 17 Feb 2016, 9:48 pm

Yep
Toomua will be starting 12 with Manu 13.

by No 7&1/2 Wed 17 Feb 2016, 9:51 pm

Just thought he would be moved across given comments on his England spot.

by Welly Wed 17 Feb 2016, 9:53 pm

Nah.

by king_carlos Wed 17 Feb 2016, 11:21 pm

Welly wrote: Would be happy with that set of backs TBH.

Forwards need some signings
couple of props maybe
McGuigan
Number 8
And see who is going and replace accordingly.

McGuigan will be a good replacement for Leo. He is less experienced but is very good around the park and solid in the scrum. His throwing needs work but frankly it's not like Leo has excelled there in the last couple of games or Bateman all season.

Anyway if Thacker moves to 7 he can still throw anyway... Whistle

In all seriousness it's the best role for him in the line-out given he isn't exactly going to jump or lift!

As for number 8 the first thing I really want to hear is that Pearce is staying. The guy has kicked on well this season and if he continues to could be the big 8 we've been looking for and he's a local lad who Tigers have developed.

by formerly known as Sam Thu 18 Feb 2016, 7:54 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Just thought he would be moved across given comments on his England spot.

Manu doesn't have the footballing skills to be a consistently top 12. He can do a job there but he's far better as a 13. There he can use his outside break or come back in hard on the angle but is also the perfect dummy line for the pass out of the back to release the back three. It's England desperation to find a 12 that raises this question every few years before reaching the same conclusion.

I'm still not that impressed by McGuigan. I like that he's physical and gets stuck in but his lineout work is awful and his fitness levels see him drop in and out of games. Right now I'd pick Thacker at hooker, actually going on this season so far I'd have Thacker as the second best hooker at Tigers. I can't see how he'll add the weight he needs to stay in that position though.

The props we're linked with inspire some confidence in a return to front row power next season. Cilliers Is just the sort of signing we need. Albeit a bit harsh on Balmain who's been excellent recently.

by formerly known as Sam Thu 18 Feb 2016, 12:49 pm

And having said all that Manu is starting at 12 on Friday night. Albeit alongside Smith who has played 12 for most the season so expect some swapping of position.

Good to see Ed and O'Connor back as well.

by No 7&1/2 Thu 18 Feb 2016, 12:54 pm

Means he's started at 12 in all his games this season?

by Welly Thu 18 Feb 2016, 1:10 pm

This season I expect Manu to feature a lot @ 12, but next season not so much.

by bluestonevedder Thu 18 Feb 2016, 1:11 pm

Decent looking squad for tomorrow night's game.

Nice to see a lot of big names all returning from injury at the same time.

by formerly known as Sam Thu 18 Feb 2016, 3:17 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Means he's started at 12 in all his games this season?

No, he's had one at 13 with I think Smith at 12. Hence why I think they'll be interchangeable tomorrow.

by king_carlos Thu 18 Feb 2016, 3:24 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:I'm still not that impressed by McGuigan. I like that he's physical and gets stuck in but his lineout work is awful and his fitness levels see him drop in and out of games. Right now I'd pick Thacker at hooker, actually going on this season so far I'd have Thacker as the second best hooker at Tigers. I can't see how he'll add the weight he needs to stay in that position though.

The props we're linked with inspire some confidence in a return to front row power next season. Cilliers Is just the sort of signing we need. Albeit a bit harsh on Balmain who's been excellent recently.

Hookers seem to be increasingly more difficult players to find, especially ones who nail their set-piece. McGuigan isn't perfect but he's young, EQP, could stay at the club for a long time and should only keep getting better. As you suggest he also has the significant advantage of being a naturally big bloke who could fill out a bit more still. I'd take him happily over a 32 year old stop gap who might be more consistent now but will only be around for a couple of years.

I believe Cilliers can play both sides of the scrum so he may getting signed with replacing that ability which Logo currently offers. If Logo is going as expected then I hope we have a big signing lined up at LH though.

by formerly known as Sam Thu 18 Feb 2016, 4:45 pm

We need a lot of loosehead cover so I'm still hoping Logo and Cilliers are both around next season.

I spose you're right about McGowan I just hope he's ready to work hard over the summer.

by Guest Fri 19 Feb 2016, 1:43 pm

Just a reminder that the Tigers episode of BT's XV documentary series is on tonight after the match. I'm still hopeful that it's a 30 minute bikram yoga session with Cockerill, but I suppose I'll settle for a behind the scenes look at training/match days.

by nathan Fri 19 Feb 2016, 5:06 pm

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:Just a reminder that the Tigers episode of BT's XV documentary series is on tonight after the match. I'm still hopeful that it's a 30 minute bikram yoga session with Cockerill, but I suppose I'll settle for a behind the scenes look at training/match days.

Cheers fuzzy thumbsup

by king_carlos Tue 23 Feb 2016, 10:08 pm

Martin Bayfield commented after the game on Friday that JDV had broken his nose when he took that blow trying to drag Yarde down. Has anyone heard anything since though?

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Leicester-Tigers-NEWS-Jean-Villiers-says/story-28787656-detail/story.html

That interview with JDV mentions a knock but nowt else. Hopefully it was just a bit of hot air from Bayfield as I thought JDV looked ok if a bit rusty against Quins. With Matt Smith seeming a bit knackered after so many games he should certainly offer another option for a organisational rock in the midfield.

by formerly known as Sam Wed 24 Feb 2016, 9:43 am

Agreed Carlos. It seems broken nose as been downgraded to merely bloody. Hopefully he can take the field against LI at the weekend.

Interesting that the Mercury were starting to take up the question of where Thacker's position will be going forward. Slater saying he's good enough to play either sounds like the party line. Be interesting to see if he starts at 7 this weekend.

by king_carlos Wed 24 Feb 2016, 6:48 pm

Tom Youngs, Mike Williams, Niki and Tommy Bell are all back for the weekend according to Cockers.

Good news all round. Youngs especially has looked like the leader of our pack in tight exchanges this season offering the snarl and nastiness that's been missing for the last 3 games. Mike Williams also offers this although the strong performance of Croft and Thacker on Friday may see him start on the bench.

No mention of whether Lachie will return. With O'Connor out there may be a temptation to throw him back in if he was rested rather than carrying a niggle.

Ayerza, Youngs, Logo, Fitz, Slater, Croft, Thacker/McCaffery, Pearce
Harrison, Burns, TV, Smith/JDV, Manu, Betham, Tait

Reps: Leo, Brugnara/Genge, Balmain, Kitch, Williams, Kitto, Bell, Goneva

If Pearce misses out after one poor game it may be an indicator of whether he is off or not. If he were staying then I reckon Cockers would give him time, if he's already signed for Sale then the coaches may leave him in the cold if they don't feel he's adding to the side for the weekend. If Lachie is fit then they could put him back at 8 with Thacker at 7. Or revert to Croft at 7 with Mike Williams coming straight into the XV.

by Welly Wed 24 Feb 2016, 6:56 pm

Pearce is off.

by formerly known as Sam Wed 24 Feb 2016, 8:46 pm

Is he Welly? I've seen the Pearce and Crane rumours but nothing official yet and the rumours seemed to have died off. I thought he played pretty well against Quins and his mixture of carrying and offload meant he created good attacking chances frequently. He also did a good job controlling the ball at the back of an under pressure scrum.

by **Ozzy3213** Thu 25 Feb 2016, 9:23 am

Are any of your locks out of contract at the end of this season?

by **LondonTiger** Thu 25 Feb 2016, 9:35 am

Ozzy3213 wrote:Are any of your locks out of contract at the end of this season?

Possibly Seb de Chaves

by Welly Thu 25 Feb 2016, 9:37 am

Nope none are out of contract next season.

And Pearce Is gone from what I have heard.

by king_carlos Thu 25 Feb 2016, 2:36 pm

From what I've heard Pearce if off yep. I'm still hoping it isn't the case though as he's a rapidly improving player and a home grown one.

With Mike Williams back and the Thacker at 7 train gaining speed I expect that the amount of game time he gets in the next few weeks will be very telling. If he's off then Cockers may not bother developing him more. He is a weapon but as seen against Quins still needs to look after the ball much better in contact, to do this he needs game time against top sides who can target him. Whether the coaches give him that game time will probably answer what's happening.

Ozzy - Doesn't the current LI squad have about 8/9 locks in it?

by formerly known as Sam Thu 25 Feb 2016, 2:40 pm

If Pearce goes should we replace him? Obviously if Crane goes as well we will need to sign someone but options of;

6. Williams, Croft, a lock if required
7. BOC, Thacker, Owen
8. McCaffery, Fonua, Crane

Is pretty ample. Especially compared to our hooked and prop options where we could do with allocating salary cap for improvement.

by king_carlos Thu 25 Feb 2016, 3:20 pm

If Pearce goes we are then left with the issue of not having a clue what Fonau offers due to his broken arm.

I'm torn on Crane, he should be a very valuable player for the winter months given his control at the base of the scrum and usually low error count. This season he has just looked off the pace though. At 29 he should have a few years left in him, it's not a situation such as Saints with Dowson where he was well into his 30s and unlikely to get back to where he was.

Whatever happens I hope that Milne is brought into the senior squad, if Mauger wants a ball playing 8 who can act as a link man then he fits the bill whilst also allowing progression from the academy.

If Pearce is off then in an ideal world I'd like to see Crane moved on as well and that plus the increase in cap used to bring a big signing in at no 8. Outstanding 8s are hard to come by though and cost a lot which given we already have our star front row, Ben Youngs, Manu, Toomua and JPP signed up may be hard to accommodate. Especially when I expect TV may be wanting more for next season and we either need to resign Logo or make a similar signing at LH.

6.Williams, Croft, McCaffery
7.O'Connor, McCaffery, Thacker, Owen
8.New signing, Fonau, McCaffery, Milne

Given Lachie is so versatile and Slater/Fitz can cover 6 I'd be happy with that.

by formerly known as Sam Thu 25 Feb 2016, 3:33 pm

I think a "big" signing at 8 wouldn't be beneficial. There are a lot of quality back row options available at not big money. We are very much seeing that this season with McCaffery and Williams, players from unfashionable clubs who have been outstanding for us.

Given Mauger's knowledge of NZ rugby and the options kicking around the Championship and Premiership it shouldn't be hard to pick up a good 8. Wilson from Falcons, Strauss from Glasgow or even Grant from Nottingham might do as a short term signing.

Agree that Mulipola needs to be retained if possible alongside hopefully Genge and Ayerza at loosehead with Cole, Cilliers and Balmain at tighthead that would just leave hooker.

by king_carlos Thu 25 Feb 2016, 4:13 pm

If Cockers, Mauger, etc can find another rough diamond to polish then fantastic. If both Pearce and Crane are off it would be a risk in a vital position though given we don't know how Fonau will play and Lachie could be needed across the back row.

It sounds like McGuigan will be the hooker.

With Cilliers coming in TH is looking very strong, I hope that Pasquali goes out on loan to a Championship side for a season to get experience. If required he could be recalled as a 4th choice. If given game time to develop I still think he could be an excellent Prem player. His carrying has looked strong in his brief appearances and A league showings, he just needs to play to improve his scrummaging.

Resigning Logo or bringing in a similar standard LH should be priority 1. Then sorting the situation at 8.

If Seb wants more game time then a squad player at lock will be necessary as well.

The backs are looking pretty much settled but for a squad player or two. Benjamin and Camacho are still up the air but with Tombstone, TV, Betham and JPP there that's OK. Reserve centres are also to be decided but Bryant, Roberts, Catchpole and JDV are all possible options from the current squad.

by formerly known as Sam Thu 25 Feb 2016, 5:33 pm

If Thacker is going to seven full time I don't think there's the same need for McCaffery to play across the back row. Eight can be his position with BOC at seven with Will Owen either ready to step up or ready to be let go.

If Crane goes do we need an unpolished gem or a big name? Milne has a lot of potential and with McCaffery and Fonua we just need someone who can work hard and carry. They don't need to pull up trees it'll be a squad signing. Unless of course there's a Barrow style option available.

If Seb wants to move on then promote Wells we have four other first team locks as well.

by **Ozzy3213** Thu 25 Feb 2016, 5:58 pm

king_carlos wrote:From what I've heard Pearce if off yep. I'm still hoping it isn't the case though as he's a rapidly improving player and a home grown one.

With Mike Williams back and the Thacker at 7 train gaining speed I expect that the amount of game time he gets in the next few weeks will be very telling. If he's off then Cockers may not bother developing him more. He is a weapon but as seen against Quins still needs to look after the ball much better in contact, to do this he needs game time against top sides who can target him. Whether the coaches give him that game time will probably answer what's happening.

Ozzy - Doesn't the current LI squad have about 8/9 locks in it?

No mate, we have

Symons
Skivington
Sheriff
Rouse

Skivs, Sheriff and Rouse are long term injuries, so we have brought in Will Lloyd, Elliott Stooke, Ian Nagle and Jerry Sexton on short term deals to the end of the season. Rouse I suspect may end up having to retire, and I also have concerns about Skivs. Stooke and Nagle are joining Bath and Leinster respectively next season, Lloyd is a development player at best at the moment but may get a deal for next year, and Sexton hasn’t pulled on a jersey for us yet. I heard a rumour that we are talking to one of your locks for next year, so wondered who might be out of contract.

by Welly Thu 25 Feb 2016, 6:14 pm

You were linked to slater, but that is all I have heard.

by formerly known as Sam Thu 25 Feb 2016, 6:20 pm

Half the AP were linked with Slater before he signed a new contract. Could be Wells?

by Welly Thu 25 Feb 2016, 6:21 pm

Wells isn't technically on our books.

by formerly known as Sam Thu 25 Feb 2016, 7:24 pm

Thought he was dual registered. Hence technically at Bedford but also training and playing with our A team.

by Welly Fri 26 Feb 2016, 6:47 am

London Irish to convert Thacker to lock?

by **Ozzy3213** Fri 26 Feb 2016, 6:59 am

The whisper I heard was yesterday, so defintiely not related to the Slater speculation. I think it could be de Chaves.

by Welly Fri 26 Feb 2016, 7:04 am

Could be De Chaves wants out he behind
Slater
Fitzgerald
Kitchener
Barrow
Williams

Still in contract but Tigers might think about either finding another project lock/6 or bring in Maksymiw from academy to save cap.

Shame as he was a standout player last season just very strong recruitment by us.

by **Ozzy3213** Fri 26 Feb 2016, 7:26 am

He'd be a good signing for us, and would certainly get more game time than he would staying with you guys.

by Welly Fri 26 Feb 2016, 7:27 am

Trade to have Lewington back maybe.

Please Wink

by Welly Fri 26 Feb 2016, 10:28 am

I hope Wales will be cool for once and not badger Owen to go back to a smelly Welsh region.

Him and Toomua should be a great pairing.

Toomua not having a vintage start to season but he is defensively strong and has had a decent game. (although brumbies pack could beat the canes without any backs TBH).

by formerly known as Sam Fri 26 Feb 2016, 10:54 am

No Sky Sports any more so I'm missing the Super 15. Given that the Canes have a brand new inexperienced midfield pairing the Brumbies should be having a field day in the centres.

There's no starting shirt for Owen to return to Wales and take other than at the Dragons and why would he want to do that? Get slow ball behind a beaten pack every week isn't going to help his international chances. Wales are still happy to pick from outside the principality whatever the official tune is so I doubt he'll move. He's been exceptional when fit for us this season.

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