England v Wales, 26 September

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ENGLAND v WALES
26 September 2015
KO: 20:00
Twickenham, London

Live on [tbc]

Referee: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Touch judges: Jaco Peyper (South Africa) & Marius Mitrea (Italy)
Television match official: Shaun Veldsman (South Africa)

A. Head to Head

126 Played 126
58 Won 56
12 Drawn 12
56 Lost 58
1,596 Points 1,456

B. Recent Form

6 February 2015
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
16 – 21 to England

9 March 2014
Twickenham Stadium, London
29 – 18 to England

16 March 2013
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
30 – 3 to Wales

25 February 2012
Twickenham Stadium, London
12 – 19 to Wales

13 August 2011
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
19 – 9 to Wales

6 August 2011
Twickenham, London
23 – 19 to England

4 February 2011
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
19 – 26 to England

6 February 2010
Twickenham, London
30 – 17 to England

14 February 2009
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
23 – 15 to Wales

2 February 2008
Twickenham, London
19 – 26 to Wales

C. Teams

ENGLAND

[tbc]

WALES

[tbc]

Given that the rules state no replacements 48hrs before a game and given that the team is announced tomorrow I am guessing Paul James and at least one of Jarvis or Lee are fit.

Otherwise he would have had to call someone up by now wouldn't have he?

bedfordwelsh wrote:Given that the rules state no replacements 48hrs before a game and given that the team is announced tomorrow I am guessing Paul James and at least one of Jarvis or Lee are fit.

Otherwise he would have had to call someone up by now wouldn't have he?

They have been given dispensation to leave it until 24 hours before (probably because they have to have 4 fit props)

They are apparently assessing James and Lee every hour, with Lee close to being fit though looks like James won't quite make it.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-team-v-england-samson-10120023

wales606 wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Given that the rules state no replacements 48hrs before a game and given that the team is announced tomorrow I am guessing Paul James and at least one of Jarvis or Lee are fit.

Otherwise he would have had to call someone up by now wouldn't have he?

They have been given dispensation to leave it until 24 hours before (probably because they have to have 4 fit props)

They are apparently assessing James and Lee every hour, with Lee close to being fit though looks like James won't quite make it.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-team-v-england-samson-10120023

606,

Cheers for that hadn't read that. So guessing Jarvis must be fit as well then and will (god help us) provide back up cover to Francis is Lee is out and Rob Evans the likely replacement if James is out, which I heard a rumour yesterday is very likely.

It's strange that the same referee that refereed the 6 nations game is the same one whos refereeing on Saturday. Personally if I was Gatland I'd pick Mike Phillips and Liam Williams and the other 13 players who lost in Cardiff and tell the lads to set the record straight, reminding them that England cost Wales a Grand slam this year. I'll be glad not to see Ford or Joseph not playing, because they along with Brown were basically the reason Wales lost in Cardiff. Except this time all the pressure is on England!

Both are equally desperate to win, i'd say the pressure it shared.

no pressure on dan biggar . replacing halfp as kicker. matching Farrell who was cr.p in the lions when dan should have gone. cool head son,,,,cool head.

well said gavstar. most young players would have folded after lions rejection, but great that English have no idea how good dan is. under the radar is the best way . you've been written off as half p's poor replacement...............nothing to loose. good luck wales. good luck dan.....you deserve recognition .

bedfordwelsh wrote:

wales606 wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Given that the rules state no replacements 48hrs before a game and given that the team is announced tomorrow I am guessing Paul James and at least one of Jarvis or Lee are fit.

Otherwise he would have had to call someone up by now wouldn't have he?

They have been given dispensation to leave it until 24 hours before (probably because they have to have 4 fit props)

They are apparently assessing James and Lee every hour, with Lee close to being fit though looks like James won't quite make it.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-team-v-england-samson-10120023

606,

Cheers for that hadn't read that.  So guessing Jarvis must be fit as well then and will (god help us) provide back up cover to Francis is Lee is out and Rob Evans the likely replacement if James is out, which I heard a rumour yesterday is very likely.

I read that Jarvis is cleared fit... I guess they have the option of keeping one tighthead as a reserve loosehead, as we did vs Uruguay

gavstar wrote:no pressure on dan biggar . replacing halfp as kicker. matching Farrell who was cr.p in the lions when dan should have gone.     cool head son,,,,cool head.

Just to bring you up on this although I rate Farrell several steps below Sexton he was excellent on the Lions tour and probably played better than the first choice overall.

Even Gatland was impressed with Farrell.

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

wales606 wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Given that the rules state no replacements 48hrs before a game and given that the team is announced tomorrow I am guessing Paul James and at least one of Jarvis or Lee are fit.

Otherwise he would have had to call someone up by now wouldn't have he?

They have been given dispensation to leave it until 24 hours before (probably because they have to have 4 fit props)

They are apparently assessing James and Lee every hour, with Lee close to being fit though looks like James won't quite make it.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-team-v-england-samson-10120023

606,

Cheers for that hadn't read that.  So guessing Jarvis must be fit as well then and will (god help us) provide back up cover to Francis is Lee is out and Rob Evans the likely replacement if James is out, which I heard a rumour yesterday is very likely.

I read that Jarvis is cleared fit... I guess they have the option of keeping one tighthead as a reserve loosehead, as we did vs Uruguay

Yeah and look how that went, if we are seriously considering Jarvis as L/head cover then god really does need to help us. he just about cuts it in his preferred position of t/head so if he had to come off the bench against England we would be royally screwed.

haircut Biggar isn't a bad player but it will be interesting to see how he does without Halfpenny taking off the pressure with place kicking. Will need a successful first kick to settle nerves and doubts.

Biggar has nothing to lose? A poor performance and he will be labelled as Halfpenny's poodle and also he will have to answer to the Welsh fans. The pressure is on.

There is pressure of Farrell Jr, if he starts too but he's got so much arrogance/confidence which he channels,he's playing at home too, I am sure he'll cope. Plus Twickenham in contrast to let's say Millennium Stadium has generally been a happy hunting ground for Farrell Jr.

I see Wales are under investigation for training with players outside of the squad.

CHEATS dock them a couple of points.

funnyExiledScot wrote:I don't think I'll ever fully understand why Gatland is so hated as a coach, including by many Welsh fans. He seems to be blamed for everything bad that happens to Welsh rugby, whilst his many achievements tend to be credited to others.

Just look at his record and his achievements, and name a better NH coach in the last decade.

I agree and disagree, he has won championships and grand slams for Wales and we should be grateful, though in terms of winning % he's actually only got a 49% win record, so he's below former coaches, Mike Ruddock 65%, Graham Henry 59%, Kevin Bowring 52%, Alan Davies 51%, Tony Gray 50%. Only Steve Hansen 35% and Gareth Jenkins 30%, actually have a worse record in recent memory.
one mitigating factor could be that Gatland tends to go on holiday during the easier summer tours and let Howley and McBryde be in charge, though even the Japan tour wasn't successful. You could also make the argument that Gatland prefers to take on the big 3 as often as possible not taking easy matches against Tier B countries like Andy Robinson did for Scotland.

GunsGerms wrote:I see Wales are under investigation for training with players outside of the squad.

source?

Wales online are reporting it.

To be honest I think the biggest criticism of Gatland would be that Wales haven't really shown much improvement as of yet since 2008. Yes they made a semi final in the 2011 RWC but they didn't beat any of the top SH sides. We know what Wales are very good against NH sides with Gatland in charge. It's the big three that have been the thorn in his side.

Sure we know Wales are a decent side but their record against Australia is woeful. Australia are good but Wales should be more than capable of victory. The margins have been close but Wales' inability to close out games/finish off Australia has cost them time and again.

Perhaps Gatland will turn a corner this RWC, we'll see.

I think Gatland and Wales will prove more if they beat Australia, not England. Exorcise some Aussie demons.

This Welsh team know they can beat England but is there the belief that they can beat Australia?

England to face Wales on Saturday 26 September, kick-off 8pm
15. Mike Brown (Harlequins, 40 caps)
14. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 12 caps)
13. Brad Barritt (Saracens, 24 caps)
12. Sam Burgess (Bath Rugby, 3 caps)
11. Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 17 caps)
10. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 32 caps)
9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 50 caps)

1. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 34 caps)
2. Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 25 caps)
3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 53 caps)
4. Geoff Parling (Exeter Chiefs, 26 caps)
5. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 41 caps)
6. Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 39 caps)
7. Chris Robshaw (captain, Harlequins, 40 caps)
8. Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 20 caps)

Replacements

16. Rob Webber (Bath Rugby, 14 caps)
17. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 24 caps)
18. Kieran Brookes (Northampton Saints, 13 caps)
19. Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 25 caps)
20. James Haskell (Wasps, 60 caps)
21. Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens, 24 caps)
22. George Ford (Bath Rugby, 14 caps)
23. Alex Goode (Saracens, 18 caps)

hugehandoff wrote:England to face Wales on Saturday 26 September, kick-off 8pm
15. Mike Brown (Harlequins, 40 caps)
14. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 12 caps)
13. Brad Barritt (Saracens, 24 caps)
12. Sam Burgess (Bath Rugby, 3 caps)
11. Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 17 caps)
10. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 32 caps)
9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 50 caps)

1. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 34 caps)
2. Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 25 caps)
3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 53 caps)
4. Geoff Parling (Exeter Chiefs, 26 caps)
5. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 41 caps)
6. Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 39 caps)
7. Chris Robshaw (captain, Harlequins, 40 caps)
8. Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 20 caps)

Replacements

16. Rob Webber (Bath Rugby, 14 caps)
17. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 24 caps)
18. Kieran Brookes (Northampton Saints, 13 caps)
19. Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 25 caps)
20. James Haskell (Wasps, 60 caps)
21. Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens, 24 caps)
22. George Ford (Bath Rugby, 14 caps)
23. Alex Goode (Saracens, 18 caps)

Not ideal, but not bad.

Its about time some people got behind their national team instead of perpetually whinging about it and predicting failure.

Shocked with this selection and not in a good way. SL has not addressed the weakness in the front 5 and I don't think we can accommodate both T.Youngs and Parling in the front 5. And dropping Ford is a panic measure. I think that when England won in the 6Ns they arrived with injury problems and as underdogs and did a job and I feel that Wales will now do the same thing to us. This selection is certainly helping Wales. Our pack had better perform way better than they have in their last few outings.

apologies Jimpy but I will get behind the team, but for now I am too unhappy. SL does not appear to learn by his past mistakes, but I hope the boys prove me wrong and SL right.

Liked to have seen Launchbury starting, and to have had Slade on the bench but given the circumstances its not bad

lostinwales wrote:

offload wrote:

fa0019 wrote:Roberts vs Burgess... no contest and then what do Wales do?

Really?

One of the best 12's in world rugby, 6ft 4' 17 and a half stone, 70 caps and a British & Irish lion v a rugby union novice who might make a good back row.

An encounter to look forward to for sure, but "no contest" - surely not.

The size of Roberts has nothing to do with it as he is smaller than Burgess and these days probably less mobile too.

Size isn't everything ask Matt Banahan, on that kind of logic he'd of walked over Shane Williams, not been tackled and flipped over on the line.  None of us have seen enough of Burgess in Union to make a fair judgement on him, though league players who have been rushed into Union have rarely faired well.  Only Jason Robinson really and he was a wing at the start.

The real question is when playing a team that likes to use it's centers, will Burgess be able to make correct split second decisions, using instincts suited to the Union game and do the correct thing?  Personally  I think he's a talented rugby player, but it takes a few seasons to adapt to rugby union from league, you only have to read the autobiographies of Iestyn Harries and Jason Robinson to see how much they struggled in the begining.

and I will add that I am most happy with the bench. Webber, Launchbury and Haskell will add some real beef and if we are still in it at 60 minutes then they could make a real difference.

Are England purposely picking the slowest backs? I think all these players have their strengths but it needs balance.

hugehandoff I don't think replacing Ford with Farrell is Lancaster's worst decision.

Ford is a bit unlucky though as he wasn't exactly helped by a stuttering performance from the set piece, Morgan or Youngs.

Personally would have rather seen B.Youngs replaced, at least Morgan's injury means Billy starts with Haskell on the bench (what I would want to see).

Jimpy I'll support the team but it doesn't mean I agree with Lancaster's selections.

I am not predicting failure, England should win but if they don't I expect Lancaster's selections will be questioned.

[quote="LondonTiger"]

GunsGerms wrote:I see Wales are under investigation for training with players outside of the squad.

source?[/quote

They go on to say "It means Warren Gatland's camp believe they haven't broken any rules and even if they were to be found guilty, there is no prospect of a World Cup points deduction with a fine or reprimand the more likely sanction"

I like it. Grind out the points for 60 minutes and see if an angry Ford can conjure up anything in the last 20.

hugehandoff wrote:Shocked with this selection and not in a good way. SL has not addressed the weakness in the front 5 and I don't think we can accommodate both T.Youngs and Parling in the front 5. And dropping Ford is a panic measure. I think that when England won in the 6Ns they arrived with injury problems and as underdogs and did a job and I feel that Wales will now do the same thing to us. This selection is certainly helping Wales. Our pack had better perform way better than they have in their last few outings.

To be honest not completely surprised by no change in the front 5, based purely on the opposed scrummaging sessions I saw on Monday. Thought Launchbury may have come in as he looked marginally better in the scrum compared to the incumbents - but at the risk of reducing lineout options.

Wilson for me looked to be carrying some knock and was barely used. George was struggling no matter which props he was paired with, while the starting front row performed far better than the bench trio - especially after about 5-10 minutes of the hour long session.

nobbled wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:I see Wales are under investigation for training with players outside of the squad.

source?[/quote

They go on to say "It means Warren Gatland's camp believe they haven't broken any rules and even if they were to be found guilty, there is no prospect of a World Cup points deduction with a fine or reprimand the more likely sanction"

I haven't read that, besides with 3 injured props it's only common sense they'd have have someone on standby with so many players in a touch and go situation.

Well, the midfield has been done to death, but I think its a huge error to not have Launchbury starting for either Lawes/Parling, and Goode on the bench adds the square root of Frak all.

Now I've had my moan, COME ON ENGLAND!!

nobbled wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:I see Wales are under investigation for training with players outside of the squad.

source?

They go on to say "It means Warren Gatland's camp believe they haven't broken any rules and even if they were to be found guilty, there is no prospect of a World Cup points deduction with a fine or reprimand the more likely sanction"

[/quote]

I love this bit:

"Indications from World Rugby indicated any contravening of tournament regulations was an honest mistake on Wales' behalf."


so they are saying Gats is stupid rather than devious

England:
Mike Brown; Anthony Watson, Brad Barritt, Sam Burgess, Jonny May, Owen Farrell, Ben Youngs; Joe Marler, Tom Youngs, Dan Cole, Geoff Parling, Courtney Lawes, Tom Wood, Chris Robshaw, Billy Vunipola.

Replacements: Rob Webber, Mako Vunipola, Kieran Brookes, Joe Launchbury, James Haskell, Richard Wigglesworth, George Ford, Alex Goode.

LondonTiger wrote:

nobbled wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:I see Wales are under investigation for training with players outside of the squad.

source?

They go on to say "It means Warren Gatland's camp believe they haven't broken any rules and even if they were to be found guilty, there is no prospect of a World Cup points deduction with a fine or reprimand the more likely sanction"

I love this bit:

"Indications from World Rugby indicated any contravening of tournament regulations was an honest mistake on Wales' behalf."


so they are saying Gats is stupid rather than devious

No they are saying

"BBC Sport understands the non-squad players trained against the Wales team as they prepare to face rivals England on Saturday."

Every Bath fan knows this is a mistake.

TightHEAD wrote:Every Bath fan knows this is a mistake.

What is a mistake?

maestegmafia wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Every Bath fan knows this is a mistake.

What is a mistake?

Posting the England team five minutes after it was posted on the same thread...

Is Morgan injured or dropped?

Looks like the rumours were all right. Form a Welsh perspective it doesn't change much as we will play the best XV we have fit.  Wales will have to start well or we'll be out of it.  The English bench is strong and can be used tactically, the Welsh bench will just be inferior replacements.  

I find the "get behind your team" mantra dull.  This is a forum for opinion, that goodness we live somewhere where we can openly express them.  Come kick off we'll all be behind our team.

Shifty wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

offload wrote:

fa0019 wrote:Roberts vs Burgess... no contest and then what do Wales do?

Really?

One of the best 12's in world rugby, 6ft 4' 17 and a half stone, 70 caps and a British & Irish lion v a rugby union novice who might make a good back row.

An encounter to look forward to for sure, but "no contest" - surely not.

The size of Roberts has nothing to do with it as he is smaller than Burgess and these days probably less mobile too.

Size isn't everything ask Matt Banahan, on that kind of logic he'd of walked over Shane Williams, not been tackled and flipped over on the line.  None of us have seen enough of Burgess in Union to make a fair judgement on him, though league players who have been rushed into Union have rarely faired well.  Only Jason Robinson really and he was a wing at the start.

The real question is when playing a team that likes to use it's centers, will Burgess be able to make correct split second decisions, using instincts suited to the Union game and do the correct thing?  Personally  I think he's a talented rugby player, but it takes a few seasons to adapt to rugby union from league, you only have to read the autobiographies of Iestyn Harries and Jason Robinson to see how much they struggled in the begining.

Not arguing with the size thing but it was brought up first in defense of Roberts. You are also absolutely correct on the RL thing. For a while it seems that everybody thought that all we would have to do to get another Robinson was just steal another league player and we all know that generally it didnt work. Robinson did work because he is a phenomenal natural talent. Burgess might work for the same reasons. He wasn't just any old league player, or a guy at the end of his career looking for a new challenge and a nice payout. He was the best league forward in the game at the peak of his career when he switched.

I never thought he would do enough in time to make it to the RWC but he has. Maybe that has a lot to do with the current level of competition at 12 in England, but its also a lot to do with having the right skill set for a very specific and limited job, and what seems to come across as a superb attitude. I do worry that he'll leave holes in our defense, but we have one of the best defensive no.10's around to back him up and the guys he does tackle will certainly know about it. I think he'll also make holes in the Welsh defense.

beshocked wrote:To be honest I think the biggest criticism of Gatland would be that Wales haven't really shown much improvement as of yet since 2008. Yes they made a semi final in the 2011 RWC but they didn't beat any of the top SH sides. We know what Wales are very good against NH sides with Gatland in charge. It's the big three that have been the thorn in his side.

Sure we know Wales are a decent side but their record against Australia is woeful. Australia are good but Wales should be more than capable of victory. The margins have been close but Wales' inability to close out games/finish off Australia has cost them time and again.

Perhaps Gatland will turn a corner this RWC, we'll see.

I think Gatland and Wales will prove more if they beat Australia, not England. Exorcise some Aussie demons.

This Welsh team know they can beat England but is there the belief that they can beat Australia?

In fairness the Lions tour win should have given Wales some belief that they can beat Australia as there were lots of Welsh involved. Despite the injuries I think Wales can still win v Australia but they may need to be a little less predictable. I also don't think they are capable of beating Australia at Australia's own game. In other words if the game gets loose and becomes a back and forth battle of the backs Wales will get destroyed.

offload wrote:Is Morgan injured or dropped?

Looks like the rumours were all right. Form a Welsh perspective it doesn't change much as we will play the best XV we have fit.  Wales will have to start well or we'll be out of it.  The English bench is strong and can be used tactically, the Welsh bench will just be inferior replacements.  

I find the "get behind your team" mantra dull.  This is a forum for opinion, that goodness we live somewhere where we can openly express them.  Come kick off we'll all be behind our team.

Knee injury. Apparently not that serious so maybe they are just being cautious, but there wasn't much doubt over which no.8 had the biggest impact vs Fiji

LondonTiger wrote:

hugehandoff wrote:Shocked with this selection and not in a good way. SL has not addressed the weakness in the front 5 and I don't think we can accommodate both T.Youngs and Parling in the front 5. And dropping Ford is a panic measure. I think that when England won in the 6Ns they arrived with injury problems and as underdogs and did a job and I feel that Wales will now do the same thing to us. This selection is certainly helping Wales. Our pack had better perform way better than they have in their last few outings.

To be honest not completely surprised by no change in the front 5, based purely on the opposed scrummaging sessions I saw on Monday. Thought Launchbury may have come in as he looked marginally better in the scrum compared to the incumbents - but at the risk of reducing lineout options.

Wilson for me looked to be carrying some knock and was barely used. George was struggling no matter which props he was paired with, while the starting front row performed far better than the bench trio - especially after about 5-10 minutes of the hour long session.

Londontiger thanks for the info.

let's hope that the players can bring their evident training abilities to the actual matches if that's the case!

Was this scrummaging against machines or against each other?

lostinwales wrote:

offload wrote:Is Morgan injured or dropped?

Looks like the rumours were all right. Form a Welsh perspective it doesn't change much as we will play the best XV we have fit.  Wales will have to start well or we'll be out of it.  The English bench is strong and can be used tactically, the Welsh bench will just be inferior replacements.  

I find the "get behind your team" mantra dull.  This is a forum for opinion, that goodness we live somewhere where we can openly express them.  Come kick off we'll all be behind our team.

Knee injury. Apparently not that serious so maybe they are just being cautious, but there wasn't much doubt over which no.8 had the biggest impact vs Fiji

Thanks. I do think it's difficult to judge the subs impact though when the other guy has been battling away for an hour. Who's to say that Morgan wouldn't have had a similar impact ? Either way, Haskell is more than capable of providing a big impact in the last quarter.

offload wrote:Is Morgan injured or dropped?

Looks like the rumours were all right. Form a Welsh perspective it doesn't change much as we will play the best XV we have fit.  Wales will have to start well one we'll be out of it.  The English bench is strong and can be used tactically, the Welsh bench will just be inferior replacements.  

I find the "get behind your team" mantra dull.  This is a forum for opinion, that goodness we live somewhere where we can openly express them.  Come kick off we'll all be behind our team.  

Morgan's got a slight knee injury - sounds like they didn't want to risk him. Unclear how bad Joseph's injury is - there are differing opinions as to whether it's a one-week job or the whole pool phase.

For me, the 10-12-13 selection makes a certain amount of sense - Burgess was obviously going to start once Joseph was out, and putting him between Farrell and Barritt gives him two strong defenders to advise him on where to go. I had hoped that maybe they would bring in Care to add a bit of creativity, but the real question is how much these three have trained together. If the coaches have considered what they would do if Joseph was injured and run these three in training over the summer, then I'm comfortable with it; Lancaster has a pretty good track record of putting untried midfields together and making them work.

The key things for me are whether the pack has tightened up its act - though by the sound of things Wales are not in great shape either - and whether they can get the offload game going. I expect Brown to come charging through behind Burgess and if the offload works that would put him behind Wales' defensive line and facing an inexperienced fullback. If England mix that up with Farrell putting kicks in behind the wings for May and Joseph to chase, the boshing midfield may not matter.

offload wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

offload wrote:Is Morgan injured or dropped?

Looks like the rumours were all right. Form a Welsh perspective it doesn't change much as we will play the best XV we have fit.  Wales will have to start well or we'll be out of it.  The English bench is strong and can be used tactically, the Welsh bench will just be inferior replacements.  

I find the "get behind your team" mantra dull.  This is a forum for opinion, that goodness we live somewhere where we can openly express them.  Come kick off we'll all be behind our team.

Knee injury. Apparently not that serious so maybe they are just being cautious, but there wasn't much doubt over which no.8 had the biggest impact vs Fiji

Thanks.  I do think it's difficult to judge the subs impact though when the other guy has been battling away for an hour.  Who's to say that Morgan wouldn't have had a similar impact ?  Either way, Haskell is more than capable of providing a big impact in the last quarter.

To be fair to Morgan I always think of him as a big guy who knows how to use his bulk very effectively when the moment is right. Against Fiji they were all the same size as him and he couldn't pull his usual tricks. No idea if the numbers are anything like correct but Billy is listed as 2 stone heavier at the moment and it showed.

GunsGerms wrote:

beshocked wrote:To be honest I think the biggest criticism of Gatland would be that Wales haven't really shown much improvement as of yet since 2008. Yes they made a semi final in the 2011 RWC but they didn't beat any of the top SH sides. We know what Wales are very good against NH sides with Gatland in charge. It's the big three that have been the thorn in his side.

Sure we know Wales are a decent side but their record against Australia is woeful. Australia are good but Wales should be more than capable of victory. The margins have been close but Wales' inability to close out games/finish off Australia has cost them time and again.

Perhaps Gatland will turn a corner this RWC, we'll see.

I think Gatland and Wales will prove more if they beat Australia, not England. Exorcise some Aussie demons.

This Welsh team know they can beat England but is there the belief that they can beat Australia?

In fairness the Lions tour win should have given Wales some belief that they can beat Australia as there were lots of Welsh involved. Despite the injuries I think Wales can still win v Australia but they may need to be a little less predictable. I also don't think they are capable of beating Australia at Australia's own game. In other words if the game gets loose and becomes a back and forth battle of the backs Wales will get destroyed.

Yes plenty of Welsh players involved but it was combination of Welsh,Irish and English which did the job (sorry Scotland but you didn't really feature).

Evidently these Welsh players needed the Irish and English to help them past the mental hurdle.

Of course you don't beat Australia at their own game. You need to neutralise Pocock and Hooper - no easy task, need to get forward dominance and turn on the pressure. Pin them back and force Australia into errors when they attack from deep.

Australia's lineout was mercilessly targetted by Fiji perhaps Wales can do that.

maestegmafia wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Every Bath fan knows this is a mistake.

What is a mistake?

Burgess starting at centre.

beshocked wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

beshocked wrote:To be honest I think the biggest criticism of Gatland would be that Wales haven't really shown much improvement as of yet since 2008. Yes they made a semi final in the 2011 RWC but they didn't beat any of the top SH sides. We know what Wales are very good against NH sides with Gatland in charge. It's the big three that have been the thorn in his side.

Sure we know Wales are a decent side but their record against Australia is woeful. Australia are good but Wales should be more than capable of victory. The margins have been close but Wales' inability to close out games/finish off Australia has cost them time and again.

Perhaps Gatland will turn a corner this RWC, we'll see.

I think Gatland and Wales will prove more if they beat Australia, not England. Exorcise some Aussie demons.

This Welsh team know they can beat England but is there the belief that they can beat Australia?

In fairness the Lions tour win should have given Wales some belief that they can beat Australia as there were lots of Welsh involved. Despite the injuries I think Wales can still win v Australia but they may need to be a little less predictable. I also don't think they are capable of beating Australia at Australia's own game. In other words if the game gets loose and becomes a back and forth battle of the backs Wales will get destroyed.

Yes plenty of Welsh players involved but it was combination of Welsh,Irish and English which did the job (sorry Scotland but you didn't really feature).

Evidently these Welsh players needed the Irish and English to help them past the mental hurdle.

Of course you don't beat Australia at their own game. You need to neutralise Pocock and Hooper - no easy task, need to get forward dominance and turn on the pressure. Pin them back and force Australia into errors when they attack from deep.

Australia's lineout was mercilessly targetted by Fiji perhaps Wales can do that.

I didn't think that the Ozzie back row played well last night. Fiji again looked the better 6,7 and 8.

Is Lancaster a Welsh sleeper agent? He has taken all the creativity/ speed out of the English team,depowered the scrum by playing Youngs/ Parling and put Goode on the bench... need I say more..

Is this yet more muddled thinking from SL, or an inspired horses-for-courses approach? He's been trying to develop a more 15-man (some might say a 13-man), AB-like rugby playing team and yet now has retreated to a very MJ-esque damage-limitation / stop-the-oppo-playing set up (has Worsley retired and joined the coaching team?). I think this could turn out to be SL's biggest game of his entire tenure - the pressure really is on him. We now have a rookie RL out of position flanker plus an only just back from injury and out of position centre combo. Makes Hape and Tindall look inspired. I'm really not sure if Stewie makes me laugh, cry or cheer out loud.