Aviva Premiership - Round 6

First topic message reminder :

Table

Team	Played	--Won--	-Drawn-	---BP---	Points
Saracens	5	5	0	2	22
Exeter	5	4	0	3	19
Leicester	5	4	0	0	16
Harlequins	5	3	0	3	15
Wasps	5	3	0	2	14
Northampton	5	2	0	4	12
Sale Sharks	5	2	1	2	12
Bath	5	2	0	2	10
Worcester	5	2	0	2	10
Gloucester	5	2	0	1	9
Newcastle	5	0	1	0	2
London Irish	5	0	0	0	0

Fixtures:


Fri 4th Dec

19:45 Gloucester Rugby  v   Sale Sharks BT Sport
Both sides will not have been happy with their performances last week in games that failed to rise above the awful conditions. Gloucester's experiment of Twelvetrees at 10 and hook at 12 failed rather conspicuously as neither managed to add any control. Gloucester will be hoping for dry conditions in which their quick backs are more likely to thrive. Not for the first time this season, Danny Cipriani was unsuccessful with a "win-the-game" kick. After his break during the Challenge Cup matches he looked rusty, and with the court appearance hanging over him he will need to cast away all extraneous emotions and perform if Sale are to sneak anything from this game. Gloucester should win and overtake their visitors in the table, but it is hard to see either team threatening the top half of the table.


Sat 5th Dec

15:00 Harlequins  v   London Irish
Having secured a TBP at Sandy Park, Quins will be bemoaning their ill-discipline (plus attempts to run the clock down at the end of the first half) that allowed Exeter to sneak the win. Still, if you had offered them 2 points before they started their journey west they would probably have bitten your hand off. London Irish are the only team still pointless in the table, but can keep tyheir hopes up by looking at just how hard their opening fixtures have been. all five of their opponents so far finished in the top half of the table last season, and all bar Bath are their again. The trip to the Stoop continues the trend of playing form teams. Certainly Irish have no being playing as poorly as the table would suggest and, despite Quins being clear favourites, they are capable of getting something from this game.

15:00 Worcester Warriors  v   Leicester Tigers
Along with visitors Bath, Leicester did well to rise above the conditions last week and produce a game full of ambition and running - but perhaps not finishing. With Bell and Youngs both kicking far too long with the wind behind, Bath dominated territory and possession in the first half. However tigers showed real grit to hold them at bay, repeated this when down to 14 men in the second half and pulled away at the end. While the influence of Mauger can be seen in how Tigers are trying to play, the physicality with which tigers hit every tackle, ruck and maul was quintessential Cockers. They will need all that grit and fire for the visit to Sixways to face a Worcester side that are more than the sum of their parts. Wuss will be disappointed and even shocked by the score line last week. They did not play as poorly as a casual look at the score would suggest. DOC needs to avoid winding the ref up though. There were a number of 50/50 calls that went the Sarries way after some rather pointless in the refs face behaviour.


15:15 Bath Rugby  v   Northampton Saints BT Sport
The top two in last years regular season have struggled for form and consistency in the league so far, both with just two wins from five games. It is hard to decide who will be more confident going into this match. Bath played some excellent rugby in absolutely dire conditions at the weekend, but allowed Leicester's physicality to seize the day. Saints in conditions almost as bad featured in perhaps the worst match of the season - but dominated their opponent up front. Bath struggled at the lineout last week, but went toe-to-toe  at scrum time with the Leicester 8, almost gaining parity. they will need to raise their game further though for the visit of Saints beast of a scrum. I fell thi smatch could be decided by the conditions. If dry and still Bath should be able to avoid arm wrestle and seize the win. Wet and heavy and Saints abrasiveness and grunbt should dominate. Both sides will not wish to lose and slide down the table, but both sides will have their eyes on potentially tricky European matches.

17:30 Wasps  v   Exeter Chiefs BT Sport
Two teams that love to run the ball. Also two teams that have shown admirable defence this season at times, Wasps most notably in Europe, Chiefs for Leicester's visit. I am fascinated to see how this match will pan out. On paper Wasps look stronger, but Exeter have continued to make a mockery of such assertions. Battle of the back rows could be seismic.


Sun 6th Dec

15:00 Newcastle Falcons  v   Saracens BT Sport
It will be a shock if Saracens fail to win this game. Falcons should not be written off though. With one eye on Europe the defending champions will continue to rotate their players. Falcons came close to beating Sarries last season in Barnet with an all action attacking game - same again could make things interesting - but they have to be precise. Lose possession when in attack and they will see just how precisely Sarries counter attack.

Ouch, didn't take long...

Well this is pretty dire

Very negative tactics, not great viewing.

Really good defence from Falcons there.

Decent maul defence, we need to get the backs involved

Not very good from Charlie there, big let off. Lineout is still a weakness though.

Stop kicking the f#@king ball falcons!!!! AAAARRGGGGGGGGHHHHHH

The whole crowd are screaming to stop it!!!!!

It looks ok till we get into the opposition half

Tactic seems to be to maul it up over halfway and box kick the ball, have we even tried a meaningful attack yet?

Kicking dual with Sarries.....why?!?! Kick chase is just not there

Kick kick kick kick kick

Saracens look nothing special at all and we haven't even puy the ball through the hands against them!!

Maro itoje is not ready for England either!

If Sarries are one of the best teams in Europe, then European rugby is doomed. What a dull bunch they are - orrible team to watch. I have never like Leicester but always admired them as a team. Nothing to admire about Sarries. Would love to see Newcastle get an upset, unlikely though.

Lot of players I don't recognise on for Sarries - are they saving a load for the next 2 weeks?

Who don't you recognise?

I just dont see the point of trying to outplay Sarries at their own game. Bloody give it a go!!

Our maul defence has been impressive at least but I suspect we'll get anything from the game unless we actually score a try.

Yes lots of reserve team players. Who is Ellery on the wing. He has some pace and power mind.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Yes lots of reserve team players. Who is Ellery on the wing. He has some pace and power mind.

Former england 7s player.

Ellery is a Cumbrian lad who used to play 7s for England.

Surely we might as well give it a lash now? We're nowhere near a bonus point at the moment!

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Who don't you recognise?

I just dont see the point of trying to outplay Sarries at their own game. Bloody give it a go!!

Our maul defence has been impressive at least but I suspect we'll get anything from the game unless we actually score a try.

Don't think I've seen much of their 8, 9 or 11 before?

This is just brainless rugby from the Falcons. The maul is not working when we get into the 22, gets the backs involved and go for it, we've done zero in attack and are not going to win with pens.

Vunisa the No8 making his first appearance. Played a couple of times for Italy in 6Ns this year. Ben Spencer has over 50 appearances for Sarries and has been a Saxon, Ellery covered above.


I know Sarries have rotated, but how can the team that destroyed Wuss last week, Ulster 2 weeks ago and Toulouse 3 weeks ago play so poorly?

GeordieFalcon wrote:Kick kick kick kick kick

Saracens look nothing special at all and we haven't even puy the ball through the hands against them!!

Maro itoje is not ready for England either!

First Saracens game you've seen or something? Itoje is absolutely ready for England, he's very good almost every game. Contributes so much.

I've not been overly impressed with Itoje either. He's certainly not ready to be an international lock.

Scottrf wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Kick kick kick kick kick

Saracens look nothing special at all and we haven't even puy the ball through the hands against them!!

Maro itoje is not ready for England either!

First Saracens game you've seen or something? Itoje is absolutely ready for England, he's very good almost every game. Contributes so much.

He might be ready for a stint at 6 but not as a lock. Not physical enough ball in hand, he needs to fill out a little first. Second row is Slater plus A N Other surely.

Falcons are so slow at the breakdown they have no go forward. All to easy for Sarries in defence.

Not necessarily. Lawes (if can get fit) and Launchbury I think is most likely.

Launchbury is our only definite starter at lock

Itoje is not ready..trust me. Kruis has played better and I'm not sure he is England ready either.

As for Falcons. I just don't get who's settings these tactics... And more importantly, why??!!!

As soon as we get the ball the tactics is to kick the ball straight back to them. And don't get me started on young at SH!!!!!!

Dear Newcastle Falcons players,

You bunch of stupid, sheep shagging morons. How dare you gift Sarries a TBP. Time up, lost by a lot kick the penalty to touch.

Jeez.

LondonTiger wrote:Vunisa the No8 making his first appearance. Played a couple of times for Italy in 6Ns this year. Ben Spencer has over 50 appearances for Sarries and has been a Saxon, Ellery covered above.


I know Sarries have rotated, but how can the team that destroyed Wuss last week, Ulster 2 weeks ago and Toulouse 3 weeks ago play so poorly?

Cheers LT ... not sure how I missed Spencer then - obviously not paying attention

LondonTiger wrote:Dear Newcastle Falcons players,

You bunch of stupid, sheep shagging morons. How dare you gift Sarries a TBP. Time up, lost by a lot kick the penalty to touch.

Jeez.

Perhaps they're feeling sorry for LI and wanted to lose by more ...

Utter dross. Deserve to go down.

And what do we expect with Wells doing forwards and defence coaching!!

I think my time would be spent better watching my clubs (percy Park) 1St team playing. And it wouldn't take me 1.5 hours each way to get to!!!

And to cap it all off the announcer couldn't even pronounce connacht right!!!

Could be worse GF - you could be sitting in 12th with zero points ...

GeordieFalcon wrote:Utter dross. Deserve to go down.

And what do we expect with Wells doing forwards and defence coaching!!

If Rowntree doesn't keep his position with England then I can see him heading up to Newcastle to join his old mucka Deano.

He'd be a marked improvement on Wells as a forwards coach. He may have lost a few peoples respect as part of the collective mess that was our RWC efforts. However 8 years international coaching experience with 2 Lions tours is a lot of pedigree to take to a club if he is in need of a new job.

Plus he's only 44 so has years ahead of him as a coach.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Launchbury is our only definite starter at lock

Often picks up injuries. Poor in the line out and needs to be paired with a big lock to beef up the scrum. Whilst very good in the loose he's by no means a certainty due to his weaknesses.

Lawes is out until who knows when. Attwood and Kruis have been average. Slater is a leader, a lump in the scrum, good in the line out and beast round the park. Would have played in the RWC if he hadn't needed knee surgery. Our pack needs someone like him to give it a physical back bone.

Just read this is the best start of season for Leicester since the 2008/09 season.

Also this weekend was our joint biggest comeback in 135 years.

Just watched the Wasps game, great performance by Exeter. Wasps looked good in patches but looked like they thought they just had to pass wide to run in a try every time.

Referee was terrible, inconsistent to both sides, called off side then didn't give the pen, missed a neck roll and tackle in the air, missed some massive off sides too.

Slade's injury looked nasty, had his leg caught between two players while jackalling and then got judo rolled.

Where the hell did Dean get his tactics?

Last season we were playing a good fast attacking game. This season (I accept we had a load of injuries) we kick kick kick and it's aimless and just giving away possession!

I just don't get it. After 20 mins today you could see what was happening. So why didn't Dean change the tactics and open it up??

I'm really having doubts about him now.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Launchbury is our only definite starter at lock

Often picks up injuries. Poor in the line out and needs to be paired with a big lock to beef up the scrum. Whilst very good in the loose he's by no means a certainty due to his weaknesses.

Lawes is out until who knows when. Attwood and Kruis have been average. Slater is a leader, a lump in the scrum, good in the line out and beast round the park. Would have played in the RWC if he hadn't needed knee surgery. Our pack needs someone like him to give it a physical back bone.

Every lock is terrible. I'd only play Tigers locks

Bathite wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Launchbury is our only definite starter at lock

Often picks up injuries. Poor in the line out and needs to be paired with a big lock to beef up the scrum. Whilst very good in the loose he's by no means a certainty due to his weaknesses.

Lawes is out until who knows when. Attwood and Kruis have been average. Slater is a leader, a lump in the scrum, good in the line out and beast round the park. Would have played in the RWC if he hadn't needed knee surgery. Our pack needs someone like him to give it a physical back bone.

Every lock is terrible. I'd only play Tigers locks

Tempting but not at the moment. Kitch isn't in form and Barrow isn't ready. Lock is a position of strength but balance has been an issue for England. Currently Slater offers the easiest solution to providing that balance. Attwood I hoped would offer that but didn't go to the RWC and hasn't shone since then got injured.

LondonTiger wrote:Dear Newcastle Falcons players,

You bunch of stupid, sheep shagging morons. How dare you gift Sarries a TBP. Time up, lost by a lot kick the penalty to touch.

Jeez.

This.

I can not believe that shambles gifted Sarries a tbp.

They hadn't once looked like scoring all game, did they suddenly think they were going to run it in from halfway? Bunch of idiots.

Sarries are horrific to watch, why are they on TV so often!

Watching the highlights programme. Ford was scathing of the ref and his decisions but didn't mention Ford jnr...

Why would any coach publically slate one of their own players in a press conference?

doctor_grey wrote:Two points.  

BeIN Sports claim they televise Rugby in America.  but this seaosn they show almost nothing.  nothing today and almost nothing live.  I can't watch my Saints live and there are no other matches televised either.  This stinks to the high heavens.  All they show is effing soccer, which to me is like watching Hemorrhoids‎ form.  By the way, the Pro12 has fewer matches on in America this year than the Premiership.

Same up here as well. Bell End Sports acquired the rights before last season and the coverage is worse than terrible. To begin with our cable provider (one of the big 4 in Canada) doesn't carry the channel so it's the internet version only. Then you can't record the very few 1 or 2 max live games it does actually bother to show and all for the low low price of $210 a year! I can't understand why they buy the rights if they are not going to show any games?

Used to be Rogers who carried it, showed at least 2 live games a weekend plus at least another 1 in full but recorded. But then soccer became more popular and read that they had to pay more to keep some of the rights when they came up for renewal. Didn't leave much over for the AP rights.

You can sign up to BT sports and watch online (I do this from the Middle East). There's also Bet365 who do every AP game.

yappysnap wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Dear Newcastle Falcons players,

You bunch of stupid, sheep shagging morons. How dare you gift Sarries a TBP. Time up, lost by a lot kick the penalty to touch.

Jeez.

This.

I can not believe that shambles gifted Sarries a tbp.

They hadn't once looked like scoring all game, did they suddenly think they were going to run it in from halfway? Bunch of idiots.

Sarries are horrific to watch, why are they on TV so often!

Yappysnap continue to stay ignorant if you want.....

Saracens can cut teams to shreds if they choose to - they destroyed Ulster, they destroyed Worcester, they destroyed Newcastle. It's about attacking at the right time.

They can be enjoyable to watch. Oh and they score more tries than your "exciting" Quins. Not all the tries are from the trundling forwards either.

They don't always choose to play an expansive game because it is tactically naive/idiotic to try and run everything. I will conceed that they should mix up their game more and be a less predictable at times but they have been dominant because of their good core skills.

In the Newcastle game, they ground down Newcastle, it was not pretty but Newcastle rarely looked like scoring. Brought on powerful reinforcements who helped punch holes.

I would suggest that Saracens should have used the boot less and given the ball to the backs more from lineouts. There are improvements that can be made but Saracens didn't ever look like losing.

38-3 - 4 tries scored, no tries conceded - not bad at all. Defensively Saracens have been immense this season.

2nd best attack,best defence - not bad.


As for you Geordiefalcon saying Itoje isn't good enough -disagree. I thought Itoje was good again, harrassing the opposition. He seems to get himself involved a lot. Not as good as his man of the match performance vs Worcester but I think he's definitely ready for England.


Newcastle gifted Sarries the try bonus but Worcester and LI gifted Leicester and Quins try bonuses so I think it's fair.....

There is a difference not being good enough to prevent 4 tries, and being amazingly and pointlessly stupid.

The most impressive thing for Sarries was that despite playing really quite badly, they still stuffed Falcons. If the performance over Ulster was 9/10 - yesterday was 4/10 at best.

I'd agree with the point above that Launchbury is the only nailed on prop at present and it's who Jones' wants to partner him.