England Squad Named

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SQUAD IN FULL

Here it is: Eddie Jones first squad as England head coach.

Forwards

Josh Beaumont (Sale Sharks), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs), Jack Clifford (Harlequins), Jamie George (Saracens), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), James Haskell (Wasps), Paul Hill (Northampton Saints), Maro Itoje (Saracens), George Kruis (Saracens), Matt Kvesic (Gloucester Rugby) *injury replacement for Dave Ewers (Exeter Chiefs), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Matt Mullan (Wasps), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Henry Thomas (Bath Rugby) *injury replacement for Kieran Brookes (Northampton Saints), Billy Vunipola (Saracens), Mako Vunipola (Saracens)

Backs

Chris Ashton (Saracens), Mike Brown (Harlequins), Danny Care (Harlequins), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Ollie Devoto (Bath Rugby) *injury replacement for Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Bath Rugby), Alex Goode (Saracens), Sam Hill (Exeter Chiefs) *injury replacement for Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs), Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby), Marland Yarde (Harlequins), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Per Sky

Forgot about Lewington...i would have no issues with him being called up.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

BamBam wrote:

Hopefully we're going to have a couple of other carriers to make sure its not just about stopping Billy!

Hopefully not BamBam

Bambam isn't international class, journeyman at best

Bambam has obvious potential. Hew needs to be given a chance now.


Along with Hairy Mallinder

What's Bambam won? Nothing. The other guys in his position have all been in winning teams = better then him

Mallinders son should definitely play, in fact we should cap the sons of any coaches in the AP/RFU, obviously they're best, and we may need them to owe us a favour...

Totally disagree, Bambam should be nowhere near. He can't do the basics, how can you play International rugby if you can't do the basics???

The coaches speak well of him though and he's quite dynamic. Maybe he could play 12

yappysnap wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

BamBam wrote:

Hopefully we're going to have a couple of other carriers to make sure its not just about stopping Billy!

Hopefully not BamBam

Bambam isn't international class, journeyman at best

Bambam has obvious potential. Hew needs to be given a chance now.


Along with Hairy Mallinder

What's Bambam won? Nothing. The other guys in his position have all been in winning teams = better then him

Mallinders son should definitely play, in fact we should cap the sons of any coaches in the AP/RFU, obviously they're best, and we may need them to owe us a favour...

Totally disagree, Bambam should be nowhere near. He can't do the basics, how can you play International rugby if you can't do the basics???

The coaches speak well of him though and he's quite dynamic. Maybe he could play 12

Well seeing as I can't pass very well, am not very quick, and am not good enough to play in my proper position of blindside, I reckon I've got a great chance of lining up at 12 for the next SL/Andy Farrell side

GeordieFalcon wrote:

screamingaddabs wrote:Ashton now banned for 10 weeks.  Seems harsh!

So is he out of the 6n squad now?

Who will replace him?

A rice pudding. Or some other dessert of similar IQ.

How about Matt Banahan? He has been in fairly good form and could do a job on the wing (not as a centre though please), although I understand Ashton is likely to appeal the decision as the view is he was reckless (inept) rather than malicious.

Y

BamBam wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

BamBam wrote:

Hopefully we're going to have a couple of other carriers to make sure its not just about stopping Billy!

Hopefully not BamBam

Bambam isn't international class, journeyman at best

Bambam has obvious potential. Hew needs to be given a chance now.


Along with Hairy Mallinder

What's Bambam won? Nothing. The other guys in his position have all been in winning teams = better then him

Mallinders son should definitely play, in fact we should cap the sons of any coaches in the AP/RFU, obviously they're best, and we may need them to owe us a favour...

Totally disagree, Bambam should be nowhere near. He can't do the basics, how can you play International rugby if you can't do the basics???

The coaches speak well of him though and he's quite dynamic. Maybe he could play 12

Well seeing as I can't pass very well, am not very quick, and am not good enough to play in my proper position of blindside, I reckon I've got a great chance of lining up at 12 for the next SL/Andy Farrell side

This has just emphasised for me that Farrell basically picked Burgess to emulate his own attempt at RWC 07, obviously forgetting how Poopie that was

I think Eddie Jones has to trust his own talent identification skills and go with the boys he's brought into the set-up. They may make mistakes, but they're supremely talented and given a run of games they'd be much better players for it.

I also think having the experienced guys on the bench gives us a safety net in case we need to close the game out against Scotland. If we're within 5 either way and we bring on a bunch of new caps, it could go south quickly.

My possibly controversial picks for the Scotland game are:

Mako ahead of Marler on form grounds (plus Marler may have been dropped after the Australian game had England progressed).
George starting with Hartley on the bench. George is talented and on better form, with Youngs unfavoured we need to rebuild strength in depth.
Itoje starting with Kruis on the bench. Give him extra lessons with Borthwick on how to call a lineout (JL other man in the row), let's see what he's made of.
Clifford at 7 and Kvesic on the bench. Robshaw at 6 and Haskell his like-for-like injury back-up in the squad, but not in the matchday. Clifford is the one Jones has spoken most highly of, and with Robshaw at 6 we play with 1.5 7s, rather than the 1.5 6s we have been playing with. If Kvesic comes on, Clifford can shift round the back row and we can play 2 7s as the Aussies did to good effect.

My backs would be less contentious, Care, Farrell, Hill, Joseph, Nowell, Watson and Brown with Youngs, Ford and Daly as my subs. What is possibly contentious would be to make my 9s my captains for this tournament, similar to how Scotland used to play it with Cusiter and Blair. The only other real candidate in my line-up would be Robshaw, but I'd rather just let him focus on keeping his place. I also wouldn't be against seeing Vunipola (6) and Beaumont (8) in the same back row later in the tournament, so wouldn't make him my captain if I wasn't sure he'd make the France game.

My 23:
Ma Vunipola, George, Cole, Launchbury, Itoje, Robshaw, Clifford, B Vunipola.
Care (C), Farrell, Nowell, S Hill, Joseph, Watson, Brown.
Hartley, Marler, P Hill, Kruis, Kvesic, Youngs, Ford, Daly.

Well, Hartley as captain continues to gather momentum in the "Meedja"

LT, ....yes just reading this on BBC. 
Wonder where the 'info' is coming from ? And why ?

gregortree wrote:LT, ....yes just reading this on BBC. 
Wonder where the 'info' is coming from ? And why ?

Hartley.. because he wants to be Captain

 oh I see.

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/rugby/dylan-hartley-northampton-star-favourite-to-be-named-england-captain-by-eddie-jones-a3161551.html

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/england-captain-to-be-named-on-monday-with-dylan-hartley-the-favourite-34383178.html


One of these (probably Standard) ran the story first - then picked up by Eurosport, then the Beeb.

In other news

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35366191

Meanwhile, Jones has confirmed World Cup winner Jonny Wilkinson and ex-Australia flanker George Smith will carry out "informal" coaching roles with England during the Six Nations.

"They will come in and help the players at various times," he said.

"George will definitely come in next Wednesday to help the back rowers. But it's very informal. He's not a coach as such, he's doing it out of friendship.

"He's one of the best defence breakdown forwards in the world. He will help our aspiring number sevens."

I know its been talked about but nice to see something official

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-3409285/England-set-bend-rules-Wales-based-prodigy-Sam-Underhill-join-summer-tour-Australia.html

I haven't even seen this Underhill play, yet they're ready to use the exceptional circumstance clause for the summer tour?

I assume the exceptional circunstance is to tie him to England then to tell him he'll be picked again if he's playing in the prem.

We've regularly criticised recent England coaches for their lack of ambition and reluctance to trust in young talent.

It's jumping from one extreme of the scale to the other but if the coaches rate Underhill that highly already then fair enough. I'd rather we start taking punts on guys who could be world class than settling for blokes who are solid right now.

There is experience in the pack from the likes of Marler, Mako, Hartley, Cole, Launchbury, Robshaw, Billy, etc. As long as guys like Clifford, Kvesic and Itoje bed in during the 6 Nations then I'll be happy to keep seeing an influx of young talent around the squad.

Coming out of a RWC year I expect that Jones will either rest guys entirely for the tour or take a big squad and rotate. Either way we could well see a lot of the talented youngsters pressing for a touring place.

Hooper made his Aus debut at 20, Sam Cane for the ABs at 21. Guys can be brought through early if it is dealt with sensibly.

Roko to replace Ashton

BamBam wrote:Roko to replace Ashton

Is that opinion or fact ?

munkian wrote:

BamBam wrote:Roko to replace Ashton

Is that opinion or fact ?

Just been tweeted by the Daily Mail rugby journalist, Chris Foy, so took it as fact

BamBam wrote:

munkian wrote:

BamBam wrote:Roko to replace Ashton

Is that opinion or fact ?

Just been tweeted by the Daily Mail rugby journalist, Chris Foy, so took it as fact

Seemed the logical choice. I was hoping for Banahan

Naughty Munkian 

I can see why Beaumont has been picked. That guy is an absolute unit.

He's quite different to the 8's we've gone with over the last 4 years that's for sure.

That's very true Geordie a number 8 who is an outstanding lineout option. In fact he is built more like a modern day lock.

Just carried Cudd, who is having another fine game, over the line with him as he touched down to score.

Last time we had a Beaumont in the pack, England won a grand slam.
May be an omen.

BamBam wrote:Roko to replace Ashton

Does he know how to tackle around the head?

gregortree wrote:Last time we had a Beaumont in the pack, England won a grand slam.
May be an omen.

Strictly speaking, the last time we had a Beaumont in the pack we drew the opening 5Ns fixture, against Scotland in Murrayfield.
May be an omen


Hope not though as that was Bill's last ever game, retiring due to repeat concussions still short of his 30th birthday.

doctor_grey wrote:

BamBam wrote:Roko to replace Ashton

Does he know how to tackle around the head?

He is PI - they all know how to do that

LondonTiger wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

BamBam wrote:Roko to replace Ashton

Does he know how to tackle around the head?

He is PI - they all know how to do that

And a trained killer

munkian wrote:

BamBam wrote:

munkian wrote:

BamBam wrote:Roko to replace Ashton

Is that opinion or fact ?

Just been tweeted by the Daily Mail rugby journalist, Chris Foy, so took it as fact

Seemed the logical choice. I was hoping for Banahan

Sorry, he's capped. Don't worry you've got Cuthbert

I think Beaumont will get a run out against the Italians to try and impress. Certainly offers something very different to Vunipola though I still wonder with Hughes around the corner what the longer term plan is for 8 or whether Hughes could be a 6 for England. As ever probably too many options?!

Hughes can play wherever he wants. He is an absolutely brilliant player. Can't wait until he's eligible. Billy V is really upping his game though. If he has a really good 6Ns it'll be interesting. Still hope that Morgan gets fit and back to his best too. Beaumont looks very promising.

It'll be good to have a bench option that doesn't just play 8 (Morgan may suffer here).

We really need to find a way to get both Hughes and Vuinipola in the same side, fantastic players.

No doubt we'll get a few injuries at some point so it's good to have 3 or 4 options at 8 that have all been capped and can slot in.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:We really need to find a way to get both Hughes and Vuinipola in the same side, fantastic players.

Vunipola is the same body shape as Ashly Johnson, could he play hooker?

yappysnap wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:We really need to find a way to get both Hughes and Vuinipola in the same side, fantastic players.

Vunipola is the same body shape as Ashly Johnson, could he play hooker?

Imagine the two Vunipolas and Brookes in the front row. Blimey.

Cyril wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:We really need to find a way to get both Hughes and Vuinipola in the same side, fantastic players.

Vunipola is the same body shape as Ashly Johnson, could he play hooker?

Imagine the two Vunipolas and Brookes in the front row. Blimey.

would not have to look far to answer the question "Who ate all the chicken?"

Chicken, pies, steak, place settings anything else within arms reach...

yappysnap wrote:Chicken, pies, steak, place settings anything else within arms reach...

And hopefully the odd opposing front row...

so with the squad meeting up on Monday, interesting (to me anyway) to see who is doing what this weekend:

Mullan, Hartley, Cole, Hill, Thomas, Kruis, Launchbury, Lawes, Haskell, Youngs, Ford, Daly, Joseph, Goode & Watson all start in the ECC.

Mako, George, BillyV, Farrell, Devoto on the bench in ECC

Beaumont, Clifford, Robshaw & Yarde start(ed) in the Challenge Cup

Care on the bench in Challenge Cup

Marler, Itoje, Kvesic, Brown rested

LCD, Hill, Nowell injured

Ashton suspended pending appeal.

I am not surprised Itoje is being rested, twice he's been on the bench and had to come on early for injured 2nd rowers - Hargreaves vs Worcester, Kruis vs Quins.

Londontiger what about Manu?

beshocked wrote:I am not surprised Itoje is being rested, twice he's been on the bench and had to come on early for injured 2nd rowers - Hargreaves vs Worcester, Kruis vs Quins.

Londontiger what about Manu?

Manu is playing at 13 at SF outside Smith. Way too early to mention his name on this thread.

Manu Manu Manu Manu Manu

lostinwales wrote:

beshocked wrote:I am not surprised Itoje is being rested, twice he's been on the bench and had to come on early for injured 2nd rowers - Hargreaves vs Worcester, Kruis vs Quins.

Londontiger what about Manu?

Manu is playing at 13 at SF outside Smith. Way too early to mention his name on this thread.

and technically he is not in the squad atm.

There's no way Ford is currently a better FH than Cipriani. Hopefully Cips will get a chance over the 6 Nations.

I really like the look of Beaumont - could become a sensational player. With Vunipola, Hughes and Clifford, we are already sorted at 8 for the next decade. I'd guess we'll see one of them at 6 fairly often.

With Auturac and LCD probably touring this summer, Brookes and Hill at TH, Launchbury and Itoje having so much more to come in terms of physicality, Underhill to be developed at 7, new coaching.........there's a scary England pack that could emerge over the next couple of years.

Cipriani was pretty good in the match against the dragons, yet still a bit flakey. I guess he reminds of Quade Cooper a little bit. If Jones is a risk taker then start him against Italy as that match is likely a gauranteed win.

gregortree wrote:LT, ....yes just reading this on BBC. 
Wonder where the 'info' is coming from ? And why ?

Jones I bet for pure mischief

mikey_dragon wrote:Cipriani was pretty good in the match against the dragons, yet still a bit flakey. I guess he reminds of Quade Cooper a little bit. If Jones is a risk taker then start him against Italy as that match is likely a gauranteed win.

I wouldn't describe Cipriani as flakey. Can you give an example of his recent flakiness?

mikey_dragon wrote:Cipriani was pretty good in the match against the dragons, yet still a bit flakey. I guess he reminds of Quade Cooper a little bit. If Jones is a risk taker then start him against Italy as that match is likely a gauranteed win.

Have I missed something, Cips is not in the EPS?