Rome Masters 2016

by **laverfan** Sat 07 May 2016, 3:12 pm

First topic message reminder :

What a draw!

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/scores/current/rome/416/draws

by kingraf Sat 14 May 2016, 9:55 pm

Nishikori could be so damn good if he could get free points on his serve. Or at least make first serves

by kingraf Sat 14 May 2016, 9:56 pm

Good a time as any to start

by Born Slippy Sat 14 May 2016, 9:59 pm

The incredible stat in this match is that Kei has won 58% on his second serve. That's the big difference to their usual matches.

by Danny_1982 Sat 14 May 2016, 10:01 pm

I think Nish does lack a big first serve, but also a bit of charisma. Like watching his tennis but I wish he had a bit more personality.

Hope this goes to a tie break.

by kingraf Sat 14 May 2016, 10:03 pm

He's not missing the first serve now!

by Guest Sat 14 May 2016, 10:04 pm

Tie Break - I wonder what are the chances now of a Nishikori victory: 20 - 80?

by Guest Sat 14 May 2016, 10:06 pm

Match is heading to the three hour mark.

by Guest Sat 14 May 2016, 10:13 pm

Djokovic wins.

by kingraf Sat 14 May 2016, 10:14 pm

Nishikori played three horrible points in a row from 3-3. Good game though

by Born Slippy Sat 14 May 2016, 10:16 pm

Has Andy been on court 3 hours this week?

by Guest Sat 14 May 2016, 10:16 pm

Djokovic has a good record at the Rome Masters winning in 2008, 2011, 2014, 2015.

by Guest Sat 14 May 2016, 10:23 pm

Murray has never beaten Djokovic on clay - but they have only played four times on the clay:

Year Name Round Surface Winning Player Losing Player Score
2016 Madrid Masters F Clay Novak Djokovic Andy Murray 6-2 3-6 6-3
2015 French Open - Roland Garros SF Clay Novak Djokovic Andy Murray 6-3 6-3 5-7 5-7 6-1
2011 Rome Masters SF Clay Novak Djokovic Andy Murray 6-1 3-6 7-6(2)
2008 Monte Carlo Masters R16 Clay Novak Djokovic Andy Murray 6-0 6-4

Murray gave Djokovic a tough match at RG last year (even though Djokovic had no trouble breezing past Nadal in the QF)

Interestingly Murray has only played Djokovic twice on grass and beat him both times.

by Danny_1982 Sat 14 May 2016, 10:36 pm

Yeah Murray hasn't even lost a set to Novak on grass. Their Olympic semi final match was one of my favourites. Unbelievably high quality.

Stating the very obvious but Andy has to serve great tomorrow. He has to get free points off his first serve and has to continue the recent improvement on the second.

by lydian Sat 14 May 2016, 10:38 pm

If Murray can't beat Djokovic on clay tomorrow after Djokovic's brutal week then he never will. There is less than 24hrs to the final...there is no way Djokovic is going to be anywhere near 100% and yet Murray played for about an hour, 3-4 hours earlier. Bizarre scheduling to have the final so soon after the last semi finishes, you would think they would move the final to be another 3-4 hours later.

by Born Slippy Sat 14 May 2016, 10:56 pm

lydian wrote:If Murray can't beat Djokovic on clay tomorrow after Djokovic's brutal week then he never will. There is less than 24hrs to the final...there is no way Djokovic is going to be anywhere near 100% and yet Murray played for about an hour, 3-4 hours earlier. Bizarre scheduling to have the final so soon after the last semi finishes, you would think they would move the final to be another 3-4 hours later.

As a Rafa fan, surely you remember what happened in Rome 2011?

by Mad for Chelsea Sat 14 May 2016, 10:58 pm

That would be true if Djokovic had ever shown that he struggles to recover from long matches. I remember thinking the same in 2011 (almost the same situation with Nadal having an easier semi earlier while Djokovic had that epic against Murray).

Having said that, Djokovic has looked a tad leggy this week at times, he's played a lot of tennis already this year, and at times this week it's looked like catching up with him. Testimony to his incredible resilience that he's still hanging in there.

My worry for Murray is actually that he might be a bit undercooked going into tomorrow. Hasn't been tested at all this week really, maybe Goffin for a set, but that's about it, other than that he's breezed through. Played well, but easier to play well against Pouille than against Djokovic.

KR is right to point out that Nishi played three rather poor points from 3-3 in the TB, I think he went DF, FH error off a week Novak second serve, and then a bad missed BH. Shame as he played so well in the other clutch moments.

by Born Slippy Sat 14 May 2016, 11:02 pm

I agree MfC. I think we might see a repeat of the first set in Madrid as Andy struggles to get up to speed. Have to feel though that if it goes three Andy becomes big favourite (perhaps the one and only time that's been the case in a Nolandy match!).

by Guest Sat 14 May 2016, 11:03 pm

With regard the scheduling - I am sure Socal will tell us it is to do with the women.

The argument goes like this: the unfair scheduling arises because of the WTA strong arming the tournament director for equal prize money with the men, despite the fact the women only bring in 15 to 20 % of the revenue that the men bring in.

Hence the tournament director, in order to at least break even, has to maximise the revenue that the men bring in - which means schedules that maximise income, at the expense of schedules that are fair and balanced in terms of the recovery times for the men playing the different semi-finals.

by lydian Sat 14 May 2016, 11:26 pm

Born Slippy wrote:As a Rafa fan, surely you remember what happened in Rome 2011?

As a tennis fan you'll also remember in 2011 that Djokovic had a very easy win vs Soderling in the quarters, 63 60 compared to a brutal match against Nadal yesterday.

The accumulative effect of playing 2 back to back brutal matches, on a 5 year older Djokovic, makes this a very different run in to the final vs one long match against Murray in 2011.

To put it bluntly, Djokovic will be knackered tomorrow...no one on earth can play 2 long 3hr-ish clay matches on consecutive days and then be expected to be anywhere near 100% in around 18-19 hours later again for the final.

by It Must Be Love Sun 15 May 2016, 12:13 am

I think Djokovic will be fine, he has great stamina, but let's see.

by socal1976 Sun 15 May 2016, 12:23 am

Born Slippy wrote:My point was that it's a strange type of tennis fan who is bored by a rally consisting of:

- a serve;
- three baseline shots;
- an approach to the net, lob and smash;
- three baseline shots;
- an approach to the net;
- a drop volley and three shots at the net - ending with a winner.

A faction on this forum (those who Socal is complain about) spend their time asking for variety and more net play yet, when it happens, you complain that you had checked out mentally.

The international federation of negative nancys hasn't noticed anything spectacular in tennis for a very long time. I am not kidding you BS on old 606 after 2008 I came on and the some of the same crowd where talking about how it was a poor performance by Roger and how overrated a match it was. Nothing positive about Murray, Djokovic, for some Nadal or the rest of the young generation coming up seems to register at all on the interest scale. I posit that if you find Djokovic, Nadal, Murray, Paire, Gulbis, Kyrgios, Gasquet, Verdasco, Thiem, Nish, Zvereve, Tsonga, Del Po; if you find all these guys and more completely uncommendable and uninspiring it may just be you don't like tennis.

by socal1976 Sun 15 May 2016, 12:32 am

Temp-suucks-d1ick wrote:Temp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ickTemp-suucks-d1ick

What? Jahu, how many times are you going to cross the line?

by socal1976 Sun 15 May 2016, 12:36 am

Back to Tennis I think Murray should have a good chance not because Novak will be tired or fatigued. That may play a lesser role but the main thing is that mentally Novak seems to be tense and just want to get Rome out of the way and get to RG. He obviously doesn't mean what he says about RG being another slam and all that stuff, it shows with his demeanor this week. He goes from not being focused and lethargic to then being irritable and frustrated. I think psychologically Djokovic is ripe as he already subconsciously wants to check for RG.

by summerblues Sun 15 May 2016, 2:29 am

Nishi played a great match. He was there with Novak all the way. He should be kicking himself for the three points after 3:3 in the TB. He might have lost anyway, but he should have never given them away so easily after how hard he fought all match.

As far as Novak goes, he seems to be losing a little bit of his superiority. Already in Madrid he oddly lost his serve late in the 2nd set against Nishi. He has been playing a little subpar here too. I suspect either his form is ever so slightly lower than it has been the last year, or maybe he is getting agitated as his Holy Grail quest is nearing, or both. Whatever it is, I think he will be a nervous wreck come RG and if someone (Rafa?, or maybe even Nishi or Andy?) can stand up to him there, I would not be surprised if Novak wilts in the crunch time.

Still, he is obviously the favorite, but I would really like to see someone push him there and see how Novak responds.

by sirfredperry Sun 15 May 2016, 8:02 am

Yes, Djoko will be tired but I reckon a worn-out Novak will still beat a comparatively-fresh Murray.
As for the French, who knows ? An injury, an off-par day, an opponent playing out of his skin...and Djoko will be out. Still think his best chance came and went last year, when Rafa was undercooked and Nole was a set up in the final. But is Djoko the favourite this year? Of course he is. I just believe he won't win.

by HM Murdock Sun 15 May 2016, 8:06 am

lydian wrote:To put it bluntly, Djokovic will be knackered tomorrow...no one on earth can play 2 long 3hr-ish clay matches on consecutive days and then be expected to be anywhere near 100% in around 18-19 hours later again for the final.

I agree completely.

Against most other opponents, this wouldn't necessarily be crucial. But against Murray, who's had probably the least taxing route to a final in his career, it's a significant disadvantage.

socal1976 wrote: mentally Novak seems to be tense and just want to get Rome out of the way and get to RG. He obviously doesn't mean what he says about RG being another slam and all that stuff, it shows with his demeanor this week. He goes from not being focused and lethargic to then being irritable and frustrated. I think psychologically Djokovic is ripe as he already subconsciously wants to check for RG.

I wish I saw it as positively as you. I don't see it as wanting to get on with Roland Garros, I see it as his form dipping and pressure showing as the big event arrives. He doesn't strike me as being in a great place and if he wins RG this year, I think he'll have to do it the gritty and ugly way rather than the top form A-game way.

I'm reminded a bit of last years US Open swing. He wasn't great in Canada, he was outright bad in Cincy, and his serve was AWOL. Yet he won the USO, not because his overall form was great but because he got a favorable draw and his serve came back from the dead.

I think he'll need something similar for RG.

by Guest Sun 15 May 2016, 8:19 am

Why doesn't he take a break? The guy is an absolute machine: he currently holds ten major titles: 6 masters, one end of year title, three slams.

Maybe he needs a slap to wake himself up? Apart from a mishap in Monte Carlo - he keeps winning. Maybe he is developing a phobia - the fear of losing? I wonder what he does to keep motivating himself. He needs to keep this going for three years to give himself a good chance of breaking all the important tennis records for Serbia. He is so far ahead of everyone else it is absolutely scarey - and maybe it is scarey for him as well. He has to keep crushing all before him. Everyone he plays will lift themselves against him - because beating Djokovic now is an end in itself. Who cares about titles - a win against Djokovic will make you headline news.

Maybe Djokovic is picking up a series of small, niggly injuries, that is hampering him?

by HM Murdock Sun 15 May 2016, 8:29 am

^ Monte Carlo ended up being the break. Had he done well there, I think he would have pulled out of Madrid.

I'd have been quite happy for him to lose to Nishi yesterday. I don't think a match against Andy today adds anything to his chances at RG. It's more likely to be detrimental.

by Haddie-nuff Sun 15 May 2016, 9:02 am

Imo I think this whole tournament has been a huge test for Novak..he lost the first set to Belluci and given a bagel in the process, a really difficult and tight match which was physically gruelling against Rafa .. Nishikori was within a whisker of beating him.. now Andy. A combination of fatigue and frustration. Whilst he is miles ahead on points he knows his rivals are finding ways to test him and getting closer with every match he plays.. He will keep pushing himself .. his ego wont let him do otherwise. But mentally he has to be under some stress. RG must be on his mind

by HM Murdock Sun 15 May 2016, 9:29 am

Haddie-nuff wrote:Imo I think this whole tournament has been a huge test for Novak..he lost the first set to Belluci and given a bagel in the process, a really difficult and tight match which was physically gruelling against Rafa .. Nishikori was within a whisker of beating him.. now Andy. A combination of fatigue and frustration. Whilst he is miles ahead on points he knows his rivals are finding ways to test him and getting closer with every match he plays.. He will keep pushing himself .. his ego wont let him do otherwise. But mentally he has to be under some stress. RG must be on his mind

Yes, I agree. The lesson from the clay season so far is that Novak is probably still favourite for RG but other players have moved within striking distance.

That's probably the most pressured position Novak can be in: favourite but not by a comfortable amount.

I suspect Rafa may be viewing their Madrid match in the same way he viewed the match in AO12 - everything was good apart from the result. He'll take as much optimism from it as he usually would from a victory.

by Danny_1982 Sun 15 May 2016, 9:52 am

If Novak wins today it will be his 18th consecutive win against fellow top 10 players. That is unreal. If you think about it he'll play sometimes 3 and often 2 top tenners per tournament. Now that is dominance!

by Haddie-nuff Sun 15 May 2016, 10:18 am

Danny_1982 wrote:If Novak wins today it will be his 18th consecutive win against fellow top 10 players. That is unreal. If you think about it he'll play sometimes 3 and often 2 top tenners per tournament. Now that is dominance!

The operative word being IF Very Happy

by CaledonianCraig Sun 15 May 2016, 10:22 am

At the moment though winning is like a drug to Novak. The more he does it the more he wants it. He also has records on his mind such as most Masters wins plus you always feel he is striving for acceptance with the tennis world as a true legend. The only way he sees himself able to do that is by carrying on winning so there is plenty of motivation there for him today.

by Danny_1982 Sun 15 May 2016, 10:28 am

If you've got a 60-70% success rate against top ten players you're doing well. If you've got 80% plus you're doing incredibly well. This guy has won 17 in a row! Insane.

It's good that in recent weeks Andy, Rafa and Nish have all pushed him. That's a step forward. But actually beating this guy is another thing altogether. Phenomenal stat.

by Haddie-nuff Sun 15 May 2016, 10:32 am

And there is, or should be, plenty of motivation for Andy.. don't play that down CC.. he needs this too and today is HIS day if he plays well he can do it.. Nishi was nearly there..he will never get a better chance... Novak is looking a little jaded and Andy cant afford to take prisoners. BUT neither can he afford to have one of his mental meltdowns he has to keep his head Rolling Eyes

by CaledonianCraig Sun 15 May 2016, 10:45 am

Haddie-nuff wrote:And there is, or should be, plenty of motivation for Andy.. don't play that down CC.. he needs this too and today is HIS day if he plays well he can do it.. Nishi was nearly there..he will never get a better chance... Novak is looking a little jaded and Andy cant afford to take prisoners. BUT neither can he afford to have one of his mental meltdowns he has to keep his head

Oh absolutely haddie. Of course Andy has his own motivation - I do believe if he were to win today he'd surpass Pete Sampras for Masters titles won in his career. Also t would stop a losing streak V Novak and instill belief.

by temporary21 Sun 15 May 2016, 11:17 am

Forget him socal. He doesn't matter. We did lose one of our best posters though... That's bad

I hope abdy can win this. Just to put the cat amongst the pigeons

by Josiah Maiestas Sun 15 May 2016, 11:52 am

Murray is going in the right direction whether he wins or loses today, it shouldn't even matter.

I still cannot see someone being able to beat Djoker over 5 sets. Nadal is too far past his best and Djoker hasn't shown his top form yet!

by temporary21 Sun 15 May 2016, 12:11 pm

It's all on novak. It all depends on his nerves I think he'll be ok this year though.

by Haddie-nuff Sun 15 May 2016, 12:48 pm

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Murray is going in the right direction whether he wins or loses today, it shouldn't even matter.

I still cannot see someone being able to beat Djoker over 5 sets. Nadal is too far past his best and Djoker hasn't shown his top form yet!

You don't ?? on clay??
Well you know what they say... "keep telling yourself the same thing and eventually you will believe it" Whistle

by lydian Sun 15 May 2016, 1:15 pm

Yes I don't subscribe to that...Rafa near peak, even current peak vs. 2006 peak, is a huge test for Djokovic. Also, Djokovic cannot sustain this unreal peak forever...all great reigns come to an end sooner or later. I think the match against Djokovic will have hugely boosted Rafa, and if his confidence is high then he can do damage because he still has the best FH in the game when it's clicking and he's being more aggressive with the BH now too. Novak is still favourite for RG...but if Andy can win today then Novak goes into RG with some large question marks in his mind given the struggles across the last 4 matches of Rome. It's a lot of pressure on his shoulders for sure...many greats have struggled to win RG.

by Haddie-nuff Sun 15 May 2016, 2:01 pm

Lets face it Federer only did it with a little help from his friends.!! Wink

by Josiah Maiestas Sun 15 May 2016, 2:02 pm

Both of you are delusional if you believe Novak was giving his best this week. He won't lose more than a set to Nadal at the French and you know it.

Levels ahead of him.

by Josiah Maiestas Sun 15 May 2016, 2:03 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:Lets face it Federer only did it with a little help from his friends.!!

Lets face it Djokovic owns Nadal now! Wink

by Haddie-nuff Sun 15 May 2016, 2:08 pm

How deep is your barrel JM.. your scraping the bottom again.. sounds awfully like a WUM attempt to me.. and you know wha Temporary thinks about that don't you...????

Try again you failed miserably laughing

by Josiah Maiestas Sun 15 May 2016, 2:10 pm

Temp doesn't mind wumming if it's about Federer or Djoker, just hates it when you slate Nadal.

French Open 2016 winner Novak Djokovic. Smile

by Haddie-nuff Sun 15 May 2016, 2:11 pm

If it makes you feel better to think so JM.. carry on.
Go back to sleep your boring me now Whistle

by temporary21 Sun 15 May 2016, 2:13 pm

Careful there. I don't like any wumming. Hence I suggest you both climb down now...

by Born Slippy Sun 15 May 2016, 4:29 pm

Andy, for a change, not starting a final slowly. Missed a couple of sitters already though to get a break up. Rain break incoming.

by Danny_1982 Sun 15 May 2016, 4:32 pm

Murray chuntering to his team already. Only 2 games in! God knows why, he's started well! Ok he missed a couple of chances to win the game, but still.

Novak making a few errors early on.

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