5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

[Dolphin Ziggler]

First topic message reminder :

The other thread is coming to an end and I think it's nice to have a new memory to take us through this year.

And with the new season starting today, what better time to refresh things and start again. The preamble of pre-season is over: 2016/17 LETS BE AVIN YA

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Harry Arter is an idiot

[Dolphin Ziggler]

It's as if no one told him he'd been booked. Gave us impetus, drifting to 0-0 before then. Much needed win with all the injuries and City next.

[GSC]

Olympic stadiums make for terrible atmospheres

[Dolphin Ziggler]

You'd have to go there to know. It was decent, less intensity but good noise especially for a dull game. Was the same as Upton Park on a boring afternoon, you'd be daft to judge a crowd on a meandering performance.

[Guest]

I didn't watch the game on TV but the atmosphere came over pretty good on the radio report I heard (coming from the ground).

I remember the ground being used for the Rugby World Cup and it was very football-stadium like in it's noise.

It's a thing of beauty, I know that!

[Dolphin Ziggler]

It's a really lovely place to watch a game of football, in the sun anyway, that's for sure. I was sceptical, it's not a move I've really fervently supported at all, but I preferred it with views and such to Wembley and the Emirates. I sat in a reasonably similar position at the Emirates and felt removed, this didn't mirror that at all.

Bonuses of excellent facilities and contactless payment on nicer and better priced food and drink too, plus the effort made for food places put literally steps away from the ground for those enjoying the area outside too.

You can't really match an old ground, nothing will be the Boleyn for me, but today was one hell of a lot better than I thought it would be. Certainly makes it harder to niggle at the owners when it feels they may have made a good call with this.

[dyrewolfe]

Great to get our first away win of the season under our belts.

Negredo and Stuani seem to work well together up front - Alvaro very unselfish in setting up Cristhian for both goals. Our midfield looks nicely balanced with Ramirez, Downing and Stuani giving us attacking impetus, with Clayton and Forshaw stability further back.

Defence looked reasonably solid, but obviously could do with more time to gel. Barragan certainly looks at home in the PL.

Think we need Valdes back ASAP. Guzan had a very so-so game. Made a couple of decent saves, but also looked dodgy on a couple of occasions...seems to have a habit of parrying shots straight to opposition players.

Sunderland probably made us look better than we were. As Moyes said they have a bare-bones squad at the moment with few experienced players.

We definitely need to improve, but hopefully that will come with more game time under our belts.

[Breadvan]

Swansea really need an influx of talent - really not a very good squad outside of basically Sigurdsson

Saturdays game was akin to when we were struggling during the Monk reign. Lots of pretty passing, possession and build up play but the final ball was woeful. Llorente is a target man who'll never run onto a through ball but if the service is crap, which it was, he'll never score. Plus he was bundled off the ball to easy. Hull came to sit back and break and rely on set pieces and fair play they did a job. I hope the Swans sign a couple of players at least before the window closes..

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Swansea, Sunderland and Southampton need to make some moves, the former two especially in terms of survival. I think there are many clubs that have left it really late

[Guest]

Dear FSG, the fact that Luis Suarez scored yet another hat-trick at the weekend whilst we have failed miserably to beat Burnley has not gone un-f*cking-noticed.

[dyrewolfe]

Dear FSG, the fact that Luis Suarez scored yet another hat-trick at the weekend whilst we have failed miserably to beat Burnley has not gone un-f*cking-noticed.

I thought you were trying to swear less?


Plus just about any striker would cost less than Suarez, once you take the medical bills / lawsuits into account.

[Guest]

Dear FSG, the fact that Luis Suarez scored yet another hat-trick at the weekend whilst we have failed miserably to beat Burnley has not gone un-f*cking-noticed.

I thought you were trying to swear less?


Plus just about any striker would cost less than Suarez, once you take the medical bills / lawsuits into account.

You should see hear what I was saying at the time......

As for money, let FSG take a whacking great chunk of Chinese money and buy him back. Forget ethics and morals and all that and just go with the flow

[Fernando]

Andre Gray charged by FA over his tweets from 4 years ago.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Andre Gray charged by FA over his tweets from 4 years ago.

So his tweets only matter now he's in the PL?

[Fernando]

Apparently so.

I think the question is why didn't the conference authoritah deal with it.

It's just going to lead to people going back through people's tweets and bringing them up to try get them banned.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I think its the fact theyve come to light in a huge way.

They have to do it, he has to accept it then everyone needs to move on.

[compelling and rich]

what did he say?

[Dolphin Ziggler]

They were homophobic, racist and derogatory all round. 4 years ago though, in a period of his life where he was mixed in with gangs and got stabbed

[Fernando]

It's set a bad precedent though banning someone for something 4 years ago when it wasn't even a law then.

I imagine the second he gets banned fans will be searching through players old tweets trying to get the same thing done.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

It's set a bad precedent though banning someone for something 4 years ago when it wasn't even a law then.

I imagine the second he gets banned fans will be searching through players old tweets trying to get the same thing done.

Does it? I'm perfectly comfortable in a world where football players can see they dont just get away with things cos they arent megastars. And the example set is brilliant. Dangerous my gnads, I'm happy if anyone who tweeted stuff like that in their careers gets punished.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Think I'm gonna spend many years hating our owners for trying to play a chess game over Batshauyi

[Crimey]

It's set a bad precedent though banning someone for something 4 years ago when it wasn't even a law then.

I imagine the second he gets banned fans will be searching through players old tweets trying to get the same thing done.

I mean they already do. It was quite clear that somebody was sitting on those Gray tweets for a while and timed the release at the most opportune time. 

It already happens all the time, not just with football players. 

The tweets were particularly horrible, they can't be defended at all, he said he wanted all gays to burn to die.

[GSC]

I won't be upset if he gets punished.

But similarly not a fan of sifting through stuff from years ago just because the mob demands justice.

[GSC]

If I we're an agent id hire someone full time just to screen social media accounts

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I dont know why they dont. I blooming deleted loads of mine so that I wouldnt get in trouble at work, and I'm nothing. Baffles me that clubs dont have people in media departments do this.

You can't judge the FA on the sad amount of time people on the internet will spend just to upset someone else. I hate the tw*t who found these too; not done for social justice, but for "bantz" and to be a troll.

[Crimey]

Although obviously the easiest way for players to stop something like this happening to them is not publicly talk about how they want all gay people to burn to death obviously. It wasn't like he used a term he shouldn't or made a bad joke, it was really disgusting. 4 years ago or not, I'm glad that they came to light.

[GSC]

I dont think anyone is disputing the content or making excuses for it.

But I also don't agree with the FA taking action on 4 year old tweets just because someone's been sitting on them waiting for him to become famous, and the mob demands justice just because he's now famous.

As I said, I won't be devastated if he gets punished, but I dont agree with the process.

[Guest]

It's stuff like this which makes it impossible for players to feel comfortable announcing their homosexuality. In fact it's stuff like this which makes it impossible for ANYONE to feel comfortable announcing their homosexuality...it's certainly the reason I haven't come out yet.....

BTW, what happened to this PL player who was going to "come out" at the start of the season?

[Dolphin Ziggler]

But I also don't agree with the FA taking action on 4 year old tweets just because someone's been sitting on them waiting for him to become famous, and the mob demands justice just because he's now famous.
.

What do you want them to do? He HAS to be punished for it, there is absolutely no alternative.

[Duty281]

Andre Gray charged by FA over his tweets from 4 years ago.

Why are the anti-gays always so ugly?

Anyway, what's the point of banning him? Apart from how long it has been since the 'offence' occurred, why is he being punished in a footballing sense for something that has very little to do with football?

[Holymiky]

I think it comes down to him being in the public eye etc.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

And where do you punish a footballer? In his pocket and where he plays.

[Duty281]

Words on a screen never hurt anyone. Political correctness gone mad. This punishment won't achieve anything. Etc. Etc.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Every part of that is nonsense

[GSC]

See the problem is he HAS to be punished solely because he's now well known. Doesn't actually solve anything. Doesn't drive home a positive message. Rather see he and Burnley commit to actually doing positive things to cut down on discrimination than the FA arbitrarily handing out punishments for 4 year old incidents nobody cared about until he became a PL footballer who scored against Liverpool.

His comments were disgusting but giving the mob their pound of flesh doesn't actually help anyone.

[Duty281]

Every part of that is nonsense

Do you really think this punishment will cause him to revise his anti-gay mentality?

"Oh you know, mate, I never really used to like the queers, but after that 4-game-ban from the FA, I'm never out of the gay bar these days!"

You're right, words on a screen do hurt some people - thin-skinned, spineless folk, who must have lived sheltered existences and/or the professionally offended. But they don't hurt normal people.

And yes, it is the one-sided tidal wave of political correctness gone mad. Once again. We must all conform, we must all think alike, we must all share the same opinions.

Etc. Etc.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

It may well help him realise it is not a message he can spread to his heart's desire, or people who have mixed in circles with him.

I'd then guess you live a coddled, easy life. You don't know what words on a screen could do to anyone, and you're rather disgusting to suggest anyone hurt by them is weak, spineless or not "normal."

You may be very comfortably out, you may be a persona on the internet who pretends to be gay, but I suspect you have the intelligence to know that some are not. Nor do we want it to be seen as acceptable for people who can be influenced easily, especially young people.

I've lost this by even engaging you, you are contrary by nature.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

See the problem is he HAS to be punished solely because he's now well known. Doesn't actually solve anything. Doesn't drive home a positive message. Rather see he and Burnley commit to actually doing positive things to cut down on discrimination than the FA arbitrarily handing out punishments for 4 year old incidents nobody cared about until he became a PL footballer who scored against Liverpool.

His comments were disgusting but giving the mob their pound of flesh doesn't actually help anyone.

The bit in bold should come next.

It should have been punished when he did it, GSC, but if he wasnt, then it should be now. I'll put it in the perspective of someone who works with children: the kids talk about football a lot. He's now scored against Liverpool, so the ones who didnt know him are more likely to. They will find stuff out about him through FIFA etc too. They then see news about him online, and see he has been punished. Immediately sends the message of comments such as this being wrong. Or they look at the Burnley result/team - why isn't Andre Gray playing? That stands out to them as punishment. And it stands out in a way that is completely proven to work in how you manage the behaviour of children.

[GSC]

Yeah but the message it sends is its fine until you're well known. And if you become well known, clear your social media accounts. And now any action he takes on his own is simply a reaction to whatever punishment he's given. It's not nearly as clear cut as you make out.

[GSC]

You cant reinforce the message that its wrong when its sat there unchecked for 4 years. If anything it says if you're predisposed to that kind of behaviour, keep it out of the public eye.

[dyrewolfe]

Think I'm with Duty and GSC on this one.

Though I'm against discrimination as much as the next person (having been the victim of the odd bit of casual racism myself) I think retrospective punishment is not the answer in this case...especially for something that happened 4 years ago.

Rather than banning him...which will hurt the club more than the player, he should be given a community service type of punishment. Spending time working with gay charities...maybe make a public apology and donate a month's wages to Stonewall. Something like that.

As for that stuff about working with kids...it shouldn't be about making them see this kind of behaviour could get them punished too. Rather they should be getting taught to be open-minded and unprejudiced in the first place.

[Duty281]

You don't know what words on a screen could do to anyone

Um...nothing. They're words - they can't hurt you.

[Duty281]

Immediately sends the message of comments such as this being wrong.

Surely they would already know that such comments are wrong?

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Think I'm with Duty and GSC on this one.

Though I'm against discrimination as much as the next person (having been the victim of the odd bit of casual racism myself) I think retrospective punishment is not the answer in this case...especially for something that happened 4 years ago.

Rather than banning him...which will hurt the club more than the player, he should be given a community service type of punishment. Spending time working with gay charities...maybe make a public apology and donate a month's wages to Stonewall. Something like that.

As for that stuff about working with kids...it shouldn't be about making them see this kind of behaviour could get them punished too. Rather they should be getting taught to be open-minded and unprejudiced in the first place.

Great ideals on both counts. But neither is reflective of what happened or a perfect world. And actually, on kids, that does work a bit better generally. Tis just the world they live in.

But you are calling for retrospective punishment, just a different type. The bits in bold are not aligned with each other. I would agree though that the latter one is the perfect punishment

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Immediately sends the message of comments such as this being wrong.

Surely they would already know that such comments are wrong?

Everyone doesnt already know everything

[Dolphin Ziggler]

You don't know what words on a screen could do to anyone

Um...nothing. They're words - they can't hurt you.

Hurt isnt just physical. And you cannot judge what hurts someone else, you have no insight nor knowledge

[dyrewolfe]

You don't know what words on a screen could do to anyone

Um...nothing. They're words - they can't hurt you.

In fairness, Ziggy does have a point. There have been quite a few cases over the last few years where people (usually teenagers) have died / committed suicide as a result of being trolled, getting drawn into self-harm sites and other seriously twisted stuff.

Of course there are usually underlying social / family / self-image issues, but the internet is often no place for the frail-minded.

Of course, thats a bit different to dumb politically-incorrect comments on social media...but you get the point...

[Jermaine2015]

Really hoping Basti accepts a move to the MLS as it's pretty painful to see one of Germany's all time greats being treated rather pathetically. Go to the MLS for 2/3 years, his wife plays tennis 50% of the year in the States, then he can retire and join FC Bayern in an ambassadorial role.

[Guest]

You don't know what words on a screen could do to anyone

Um...nothing. They're words - they can't hurt you.

Hurt isnt just physical. And you cannot judge what hurts someone else, you have no insight nor knowledge

Duty Duty Duty (in a Cary Grant voice) There are nitwits out there who read these things and decide to take up gay bashing as a hobby, there are also people out there struggling to come to terms with their own feelings about their sexuality who read these words and repress their feelings. Some of them go so far as to actually harm themselves or worse. How can doing nothing about it ever be a good thing? Not all gay people are "thick skinned"

I see dyrewolfe has just posted the same thing....

[Scott is Back]

Think I'm with Duty and GSC on this one.

Though I'm against discrimination as much as the next person (having been the victim of the odd bit of casual racism myself) I think retrospective punishment is not the answer in this case...especially for something that happened 4 years ago.

Rather than banning him...which will hurt the club more than the player, he should be given a community service type of punishment. Spending time working with gay charities...maybe make a public apology and donate a month's wages to Stonewall. Something like that.

As for that stuff about working with kids...it shouldn't be about making them see this kind of behaviour could get them punished too. Rather they should be getting taught to be open-minded and unprejudiced in the first place.

Agree completely on this - a ban wont hurt him, it will hurt the club.

It shouldnt go unpunished, but the punishment needs to fit the crime/time it was posted. Yes what he said it disgraceful, but he has clearly come a long way from the time he posted this, and that should be looked at. Working with Charities, Donations, Community Work would do a lot more for the impressionable kids of today than a token ban, that gets forgotten about in a months time.

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