Brexit

First topic message reminder :

Funniest thing to happen in years. Have been following the craziness on the FT. Despite the implications if our current crop of retards manage to push it through I can't remember when I've read the news everyday without fail and learned something new. What does everyone think of the possibility that we stay in the single market, retain freedom of movement. Pay into the EU coffers and lose our vote ??

SecretFly wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote: As I have said problems in the UK are widely down to Westminster and precious little to do with the EU. Westminster runs the UK not the EU.

Yes the SNP has an agenda as does every political party to ever be in existence. I can associate with what the SNP wants - an independent Scotland. I cannot associate for one iota with what the Tories stand for and Labour are a shambles.

If you believe that then that's the on-going problem... in the UK, in England and in Scotland.  The truth is the SNP wants to leap from the centralised and centralising power of one 'Empire' into the hands of another one on the very same path.

It's blatant hypocrisy is what it is.

superflyweight wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote: As I have said problems in the UK are widely down to Westminster and precious little to do with the EU. Westminster runs the UK not the EU.

Yes the SNP has an agenda as does every political party to ever be in existence. I can associate with what the SNP wants - an independent Scotland. I cannot associate for one iota with what the Tories stand for and Labour are a shambles.

If you believe that then that's the on-going problem... in the UK, in England and in Scotland.  The truth is the SNP wants to leap from the centralised and centralising power of one 'Empire' into the hands of another one on the very same path.

It's blatant hypocrisy is what it is.  

At last, we find a modicum of agreement!

SecretFly wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote: As I have said problems in the UK are widely down to Westminster and precious little to do with the EU. Westminster runs the UK not the EU.

Yes the SNP has an agenda as does every political party to ever be in existence. I can associate with what the SNP wants - an independent Scotland. I cannot associate for one iota with what the Tories stand for and Labour are a shambles.

If you believe that then that's the on-going problem... in the UK, in England and in Scotland.  The truth is the SNP wants to leap from the centralised and centralising power of one 'Empire' into the hands of another one on the very same path.

No I don't see it like that. Laws, budgets, taxes etc etc are Westminster's creations and nothing all to do with the EU. The EU getting involved (as I say) depends on your viewpoint. Some businesses feel the EU is throttling them but other recognise the benefit of being in the EU. It is all about opinions.

superflyweight wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote: As I have said problems in the UK are widely down to Westminster and precious little to do with the EU. Westminster runs the UK not the EU.

Yes the SNP has an agenda as does every political party to ever be in existence. I can associate with what the SNP wants - an independent Scotland. I cannot associate for one iota with what the Tories stand for and Labour are a shambles.

If you believe that then that's the on-going problem... in the UK, in England and in Scotland.  The truth is the SNP wants to leap from the centralised and centralising power of one 'Empire' into the hands of another one on the very same path.

It's blatant hypocrisy is what it is.  

Unless you think the EU rules Westminster then no it isn't.

The many countries in the EU are all independent countries are they not? They are not part of a European Empire - they can govern as they wish their own country - Scotland cannot in its current union.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

superflyweight wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote: As I have said problems in the UK are widely down to Westminster and precious little to do with the EU. Westminster runs the UK not the EU.

Yes the SNP has an agenda as does every political party to ever be in existence. I can associate with what the SNP wants - an independent Scotland. I cannot associate for one iota with what the Tories stand for and Labour are a shambles.

If you believe that then that's the on-going problem... in the UK, in England and in Scotland.  The truth is the SNP wants to leap from the centralised and centralising power of one 'Empire' into the hands of another one on the very same path.

It's blatant hypocrisy is what it is.  

Unless you think the EU rules Westminster then no it isn't.

The many countries in the EU are all independent countries are they not? They are not part of a European Empire - they can govern as they wish their own country - Scotland cannot in its current union.

That's just not true and the treaties say it's not true.

Rupert Murdoch secretly sat in on interview with Donald Trump, News Corp boss joined Tory columnist for Times of London exclusive

- headline in the ft

Michael Gove - the grinning c*nt

Scotland has the ability to impose it owns laws, set its own budgets and raise and lower taxes.

superflyweight wrote:Scotland has the ability to impose it owns laws, set its own budgets and raise and lower taxes.  

But it is not full blown independence which a large proportion of people want. The fact that Brexit is happening says it all as Scotland voted against it but it is happening anyway. And people feel this comes as one of the bargaining chips used in Better Together campaign was that vote no and you get to stay in Europe. Eh no.

What will the Indy slogan be if there's another referendum? Vote yes and you might eventually be a member of the EU.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:There is much that is wrong with things in the UK and I don't think the EU has anything to do with it.

I can see why people want to leave the EU and why people want to remain in the EU - whatever your point of view depends on how you perceive the EU. Some may feel their businesses are throttled by being in the EU whilst others will feel that being in the EU benefits as a steady stream of much-needed skilled doctors and other needed skilled people can easily move here which will not so much be the case after exiting the EU.

Problems though, like the NHS has naff all to do with the EU and exited it will change nothing on that front.

What I find amusing is how people can be portrayed as being sensible and level-headed for wanting out of a bigger union (the EU) because they feel it will be better for the country but when Scots share similar thoughts and ambitions on exactly the same thing they are knuckle-draggers and scum. Something very much wrong there.

WTF have you been reading/watching/smoking?????????

I am talking media here. Why? What have you been smoking? I see no condemnation of SNP-esque proprtions with regards to those pushing through Brexit on the news. Have you?

Brexit voters are roundly slated and sneered at. Shown as ignorant uneducated country hicks and senile OAPs that didn't deserve to vote as they'd be dead before the mess was sorted out anyway.

Like I said, Christ knows what you're reading/watching/smoking.

superflyweight wrote:What will the Indy slogan be if there's another referendum?  Vote yes and you might eventually be a member of the EU.  

Oh there are plenty of potential slogans don't worry about that.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:There is much that is wrong with things in the UK and I don't think the EU has anything to do with it.

I can see why people want to leave the EU and why people want to remain in the EU - whatever your point of view depends on how you perceive the EU. Some may feel their businesses are throttled by being in the EU whilst others will feel that being in the EU benefits as a steady stream of much-needed skilled doctors and other needed skilled people can easily move here which will not so much be the case after exiting the EU.

Problems though, like the NHS has naff all to do with the EU and exited it will change nothing on that front.

What I find amusing is how people can be portrayed as being sensible and level-headed for wanting out of a bigger union (the EU) because they feel it will be better for the country but when Scots share similar thoughts and ambitions on exactly the same thing they are knuckle-draggers and scum. Something very much wrong there.

WTF have you been reading/watching/smoking?????????

I am talking media here. Why? What have you been smoking? I see no condemnation of SNP-esque proprtions with regards to those pushing through Brexit on the news. Have you?

Brexit voters are roundly slated and sneered at. Shown as ignorant uneducated country hicks and senile OAPs that didn't deserve to vote as they'd be dead before the mess was sorted out anyway.

Like I said, Christ knows what you're reading/watching/smoking.  

Sorry but no they are not. I have seen nothing of the sort like this on any of the news bulletins. I've watched several news items looking at Brexit with both leave and remain voters given an equal say and not looked down on.

CaledonianCraig wrote:...What I find amusing is how people can be portrayed as being sensible and level-headed for wanting out of a bigger union (the EU) because they feel it will be better for the country but when Scots share similar thoughts and ambitions on exactly the same thing they are knuckle-draggers and scum. Something very much wrong there.

Selective in your reading of portrayals much? Plenty of Brexiteers are/have been portrayed as 'scum' etc. There's no difference at all in the portrayal of pro-Indy Scots and Brexiteers but you bring your selective paranoia into it by all means.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

superflyweight wrote:What will the Indy slogan be if there's another referendum?  Vote yes and you might eventually be a member of the EU.  

Oh there are plenty of potential slogans don't worry about that.

"Scotland First"?

CaledonianCraig wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Brexit voters are roundly slated and sneered at. Shown as ignorant uneducated country hicks and senile OAPs that didn't deserve to vote as they'd be dead before the mess was sorted out anyway.

Like I said, Christ knows what you're reading/watching/smoking.  

Sorry but no they are not. I have seen nothing of the sort like this on any of the news bulletins. I've watched several news items looking at Brexit with both leave and remain voters given an equal say and not looked down on.

Gotta go with Top on this one.

SecretFly wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Brexit voters are roundly slated and sneered at. Shown as ignorant uneducated country hicks and senile OAPs that didn't deserve to vote as they'd be dead before the mess was sorted out anyway.

Like I said, Christ knows what you're reading/watching/smoking.  

Sorry but no they are not. I have seen nothing of the sort like this on any of the news bulletins. I've watched several news items looking at Brexit with both leave and remain voters given an equal say and not looked down on.

Gotta go with Top on this one.

Okay go ahead and show me a news bulletin where this is the case where those to vote leave have been portrayed in such a bad light. I am talking media here and not forums such as these.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Brexit voters are roundly slated and sneered at. Shown as ignorant uneducated country hicks and senile OAPs that didn't deserve to vote as they'd be dead before the mess was sorted out anyway.

Like I said, Christ knows what you're reading/watching/smoking.  

Sorry but no they are not. I have seen nothing of the sort like this on any of the news bulletins. I've watched several news items looking at Brexit with both leave and remain voters given an equal say and not looked down on.

Gotta go with Top on this one.

Okay go ahead and show me a news bulletin where this is the case where those to vote leave have been portrayed in such a bad light. I am talking media here and not forums such as these.

It's all media these days Craig. We - we here on 606 even - are media. That's the new reality.

But even if you mention formal' mainstream news, I witnessed plenty of panels and news chats where Brexit people were classified as aged and uneducated and not young, and not urban and disadvantaged and.... of course, the happy bundle of 'racist', 'sexist', 'homophobic' and daft.

Ah right so do you feel that is correct in anyway if that is the case? Or fair? Or accurate? Or downright wrong and spurious?

CaledonianCraig wrote:Ah right so do you feel that is correct in anyway if that is the case? Or fair? Or accurate? Or downright wrong and spurious?

I think the people who paint Brexiteers into those categories are dumb but pompous asswholes

But that's not the argument. The argument is that thus was the portrayal of Bexiteers.

SecretFly wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:Ah right so do you feel that is correct in anyway if that is the case? Or fair? Or accurate? Or downright wrong and spurious?

I think the people who paint Brexiteers into those categories are dumb but pompous asswholes

But that's not the argument.  The argument is that thus was the portrayal of Bexiteers.

Okay so the same description can be put upon those knock those that seek independence in Scotland or back the SNP.

It may not be the argument here but lets be fair to all views eh? As for portrayal of Brexiteers all I would concede is that on social media yes the darker opinion is held of those who voted leave but on television/radio I haven't seen stations reports or portray either set of voters in such a dark way.

well, we'll have to agree to differ. In the early weeks/months after Breixt, I saw plenty of outrage and sneers of fury projected onto the Brexiteers on normal TV (i.e. Non fake fake news)

SecretFly wrote:well, we'll have to agree to differ.  In the early weeks/months after Breixt, I saw plenty of outrage and sneers of fury projected onto the Brexiteers on normal TV (i.e. Non fake fake news)

Mainly by Remainers though, if I recall correctly. Those freedom and democracy-loving, liberal types, who suddenly got all upset when people with differing views won the referendum. The irony was quite delicious...

I do recall a few interviews with protesters outside Westminster, who referred to Leave voters as either uneducated working-class types, or wealthy elitists, who didn't care about the havoc it would wreak on the poor middle-classes.

dyrewolfe wrote:

SecretFly wrote:well, we'll have to agree to differ.  In the early weeks/months after Breixt, I saw plenty of outrage and sneers of fury projected onto the Brexiteers on normal TV (i.e. Non fake fake news)

Mainly by Remainers though, if I recall correctly. Those freedom and democracy-loving, liberal types, who suddenly got all upset when people with differing views won the referendum. The irony was quite delicious...

You should look at the breakdown of the vote before throwing around cheap stereotypes..

CaledonianCraig wrote:Ah right so do you feel that is correct in anyway if that is the case? Or fair? Or accurate? Or downright wrong and spurious?

Stop dodging the point at issue i.e. your claim that pro-Indy Scots are somehow classed in a different way to Brexiteers. No-one was talking about whether it's fair or not - that's a totally different issue.

navyblueshorts wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:Ah right so do you feel that is correct in anyway if that is the case? Or fair? Or accurate? Or downright wrong and spurious?

Stop dodging the point at issue i.e. your claim that pro-Indy Scots are somehow classed in a different way to Brexiteers. No-one was talking about whether it's fair or not - that's a totally different issue.

And like I said a post or so ago then on national television Brexiteers are NOT portrayed as knuckledragging low-life - no they aren't. If we are talking about less policed media ie forums, Facebook and Twitter then yes they are.

As for the totally different issue - don't you mean it is one you prefer not to address as it is shameful.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:Ah right so do you feel that is correct in anyway if that is the case? Or fair? Or accurate? Or downright wrong and spurious?

Stop dodging the point at issue i.e. your claim that pro-Indy Scots are somehow classed in a different way to Brexiteers. No-one was talking about whether it's fair or not - that's a totally different issue.

And like I said a post or so ago then on national television Brexiteers are NOT portrayed as knuckledragging low-life - no they aren't. If we are talking about less policed media ie forums, Facebook and Twitter then yes they are.

As for the totally different issue - don't you mean it is one you prefer not to address as it is shameful.

I refer you to pretty much all my posting history on Brexiteers......

When even SecretFly finds himself agreeing with me.........you know you're going wrong somewhere. #sensecheck

TopHat24/7 wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:Ah right so do you feel that is correct in anyway if that is the case? Or fair? Or accurate? Or downright wrong and spurious?

Stop dodging the point at issue i.e. your claim that pro-Indy Scots are somehow classed in a different way to Brexiteers. No-one was talking about whether it's fair or not - that's a totally different issue.

And like I said a post or so ago then on national television Brexiteers are NOT portrayed as knuckledragging low-life - no they aren't. If we are talking about less policed media ie forums, Facebook and Twitter then yes they are.

As for the totally different issue - don't you mean it is one you prefer not to address as it is shameful.

I refer you to pretty much all my posting history on Brexiteers......

When even SecretFly finds himself agreeing with me.........you know you're going wrong somewhere. #sensecheck

No I think people in general are wrong when they start pigeon-holing those with different views as being knuckle-draggers, scum or clueless. That happens and it is wrong.

My experience of matters is you have two parties (this covers both Brexit and Scottish Independence). One party who are content with the status quo and are petrified of change and petrified of what they themselves will lose by change without looking at the bigger picture. There is the other group who want to disconnect the shackles they feel chain them to a bigger union who feel they'd be better out of that union where they can have more of a say in their own affairs and feel would be far better off for it.

No issue with thinking pigeon-holing is wrong.

Where people seem to be unanimously disagreeing with you is the equivalence of the treatment of UK nats and Scots nats.

E.g. I wanted both continued Union with Scotland and continued membership of the EU.

And was very disparaging about those that went the opposite way on both.

TopHat24/7 wrote:No issue with thinking pigeon-holing is wrong.

Where people seem to be unanimously disagreeing with you is the equivalence of the treatment of UK nats and Scots nats.

Like I have said depends where you are looking. Look at forums, Facebook and Twitter and disparaging is certainly there but not on television/radio.

I was and am pro-Scottish independence and pretty ambivilent on the EU vote.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

When even SecretFly finds himself agreeing with me.........you know you're going wrong somewhere. #sensecheck

It's easy to agree with you when you are right, Top.
That's why I mostly disagree with every word you type

CaledonianCraig wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:No issue with thinking pigeon-holing is wrong.

Where people seem to be unanimously disagreeing with you is the equivalence of the treatment of UK nats and Scots nats.

Like I have said depends where you are looking. Look at forums, Facebook and Twitter and disparaging is certainly there but not on television/radio.

I was and am pro-Scottish independence and pretty ambivilent on the EU vote.

Again that's a replication. The BBC weren't the ones calling Scots Nats knuckle-draggers.  Nearest they got was interviewing a few Saltire wavers and blue painted faces.  Similarly, there's been Beeb etc coverage which intimates just as much along the lines of 'how the hell did this happen', let's focus on old people, let's go to poor deprived areas to see why they f*ck they voted so stupidly.

No on Brexit I'd say since vote to leave has been passed the TV coverage has been fair enough. Pre-vote was different but that was chiefly down to Nigel Farage being at the forefront depicting those who wanted to leave the EU in a bad light. Since the vote though I've seen countless reports on a national and local level where they look at viewpoints from both sides on how they feel things will change for them.

On the Scottish independence coverage it depends on your viewpoint doesn't it? But remember the national television networks are UK based and so level, unbiased reporting is never going to happen as things are. After all the biggest and longest standing TV company is the BRITISH Broadcasting Corporation.

CaledonianCraig wrote:No on Brexit I'd say since vote to leave has been passed the TV coverage has been fair enough. Pre-vote was different but that was chiefly down to Nigel Farage being at the forefront depicting those who wanted to leave the EU in a bad light. Since the vote though I've seen countless reports on a national and local level where they look at viewpoints from both sides on how they feel things will change for them.

On the Scottish independence coverage it depends on your viewpoint doesn't it? But remember the national television networks are UK based and so level, unbiased reporting is never going to happen as things are. After all the biggest and longest standing TV company is the BRITISH Broadcasting Corporation.

I think we'd better give up on this. You can't see the wood for the trees and no-one, so far, here agrees with you. You'll see it how you want, no matter what. It suits your subconscious anti-English bias maybe? The truth is hard to face sometimes, but there's hope you could get over it yet .

navyblueshorts wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:No on Brexit I'd say since vote to leave has been passed the TV coverage has been fair enough. Pre-vote was different but that was chiefly down to Nigel Farage being at the forefront depicting those who wanted to leave the EU in a bad light. Since the vote though I've seen countless reports on a national and local level where they look at viewpoints from both sides on how they feel things will change for them.

On the Scottish independence coverage it depends on your viewpoint doesn't it? But remember the national television networks are UK based and so level, unbiased reporting is never going to happen as things are. After all the biggest and longest standing TV company is the BRITISH Broadcasting Corporation.

I think we'd better give up on this. You can't see the wood for the trees and no-one, so far, here agrees with you. You'll see it how you want, no matter what. It suits your subconscious anti-English bias maybe? The truth is hard to face sometimes, but there's hope you could get over it yet .

And that post says it all really.

I suggest you check more closely on your posters before making unsubstatiated claims eh?

I want independence for Scotland as I feel it is better for my country that it is run by Scots for Scots. How on Earth that makes me anti-English I shudder to think. Take a look on your Cricket threads to see my posts and you will then have to concede there is no anti-Englishness within me.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:No on Brexit I'd say since vote to leave has been passed the TV coverage has been fair enough. Pre-vote was different but that was chiefly down to Nigel Farage being at the forefront depicting those who wanted to leave the EU in a bad light. Since the vote though I've seen countless reports on a national and local level where they look at viewpoints from both sides on how they feel things will change for them.

On the Scottish independence coverage it depends on your viewpoint doesn't it? But remember the national television networks are UK based and so level, unbiased reporting is never going to happen as things are. After all the biggest and longest standing TV company is the BRITISH Broadcasting Corporation.

I think we'd better give up on this. You can't see the wood for the trees and no-one, so far, here agrees with you. You'll see it how you want, no matter what. It suits your subconscious anti-English bias maybe? The truth is hard to face sometimes, but there's hope you could get over it yet .

And that post says it all really.

I suggest you check more closely on your posters before making unsubstatiated claims eh?

I want independence for Scotland as I feel it is better for my country that it is run by Scots for Scots. How on Earth that makes me anti-English I shudder to think. Take a look on your Cricket threads to see my posts and you will then have to concede there is no anti-Englishness within me.

Oh Christ Almighty. Let me put in plain writing for you - I suspect your unsubstantiated claims that Scot Nats got more negative press than Brexiteers is masking something else, given there's no evidence, at all, that you're correct. I imagine much of the media you read is pro-Scots independence, so hardly likely to dispute your perceptions.
So, why do you claim that? Is it because you like feeling like 'the little guy'? The 'underdog'? The 'put upon'? Or does it mask a need to dislike the English, Welsh & Northern Irish or more likely, just the English?

You say not. Fair enough, although little of what you say here (I'm not interested in your claims from the Cricket section) really supports that. You're certainly sensitive to a little barb; but then aren't we all? My apologies; I'll take your rebuttal at face value, but I still think you're posting nonsense.

No I am sensitive only to put downs for ones beliefs or such-like. Who posts them is not indicative of where they are from.

I have my beliefs on how Scotland should be run and others have their opinion and that is where it should be left rather than pinning false anti-English accusations on people or suggesting they post nonsense.

CaledonianCraig wrote:No I am sensitive only to put downs for ones beliefs or such-like. Who posts them is not indicative of where they are from.

I have my beliefs on how Scotland should be run and others have their opinion and that is where it should be left rather than pinning false anti-English accusations on people or suggesting they post nonsense.

Fine, but you are posting nonsense. No-one agrees with your perceptions on this and you are yet to provide any actual, objective evidence that you're correct. Until such times as you do, I'll have to persist in my perception that it is, in fact, nonsensical and I'll carry on saying so. Nothing personal.

navyblueshorts wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:No I am sensitive only to put downs for ones beliefs or such-like. Who posts them is not indicative of where they are from.

I have my beliefs on how Scotland should be run and others have their opinion and that is where it should be left rather than pinning false anti-English accusations on people or suggesting they post nonsense.

Fine, but you are posting nonsense. No-one agrees with your perceptions on this and you are yet to provide any actual, objective evidence that you're correct. Until such times as you do, I'll have to persist in my perception that it is, in fact, nonsensical and I'll carry on saying so. Nothing personal.

Hmm no one agrees with my perceptions? Says you? Well over a million who disagree with that in the real world. But hey-ho that is the real world and not on a forum. As for evidence it is out there but people with closed minds can't accept it.

Your perceptions that those that won't scottish independance are knuckle dragging thugs, not that your the only one that wants independance (although gotta say i haven't seen as much of it as there was before the last referendum and all of my scottish buddy's think the SNP aren't very good at all.

I'd like to see these news reports/media coverage that shows anyone calling Scots that want independence, the names you claim

Derbymanc wrote:Your perceptions that those that won't scottish independance are knuckle dragging thugs, not that your the only one that wants independance (although gotta say i haven't seen as much of it as there was before the last referendum and all of my scottish buddy's think the SNP aren't very good at all.

I'd like to see these news reports/media coverage that shows anyone calling Scots that want independence, the names you claim

Well Tophat on here for a start:- 'From memory Craig is one of those blue faced knuckle draggers that couldn't see beyond Scottish nationalism when we had indyref1. So unsurprising really. Was always fun watching other more intelligent Scots on here (e.g. Super) tearing him apart.'

And your Scottish buddy's are pretty much in the minority then as the SNP are the biggest supported party in Scotland now. And in the past week alone we have seen that the SNP are not as clueless as some since the NHS in Scotland are performing better than the rest of the UK with highest percentage of spending per patient and shortest waiting time at A & E etc etc etc. That is just one area that blows the theory out of the water that the SNP are clueless. Like I have said before if the SNP were only backed by voters for their stance on independence then why didn't their support drop like a stone following the independence referendum if they are governing Scotland so ineptly?

CaledonianCraig wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:No I am sensitive only to put downs for ones beliefs or such-like. Who posts them is not indicative of where they are from.

I have my beliefs on how Scotland should be run and others have their opinion and that is where it should be left rather than pinning false anti-English accusations on people or suggesting they post nonsense.

Fine, but you are posting nonsense. No-one agrees with your perceptions on this and you are yet to provide any actual, objective evidence that you're correct. Until such times as you do, I'll have to persist in my perception that it is, in fact, nonsensical and I'll carry on saying so. Nothing personal.

Hmm no one agrees with my perceptions? Says you? Well over a million who disagree with that in the real world. But hey-ho that is the real world and not on a forum. As for evidence it is out there but people with closed minds can't accept it.

Christ on a bike.

It's clear he means on HERE. Can you find anyone to agree with you? Can you provide an iota of evidence to support your contention since it's apparently SOOOOOO overwhelming????

You wonder why Nats get derided as ignorant thickies.

PS: you're properly turning into SF now too.....

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Derbymanc wrote:Your perceptions that those that won't scottish independance are knuckle dragging thugs, not that your the only one that wants independance (although gotta say i haven't seen as much of it as there was before the last referendum and all of my scottish buddy's think the SNP aren't very good at all.

I'd like to see these news reports/media coverage that shows anyone calling Scots that want independence, the names you claim

Well Tophat on here for a start:- 'From memory Craig is one of those blue faced knuckle draggers that couldn't see beyond Scottish nationalism when we had indyref1. So unsurprising really. Was always fun watching other more intelligent Scots on here (e.g. Super) tearing him apart.'

And your Scottish buddy's are pretty much in the minority then as the SNP are the biggest supported party in Scotland now. And in the past week alone we have seen that the SNP are not as clueless as some since the NHS in Scotland are performing better than the rest of the UK with highest percentage of spending per patient and shortest waiting time at A & E etc etc etc. That is just one area that blows the theory out of the water that the SNP are clueless. Like I have said before if the SNP were only backed by voters for their stance on independence then why didn't their support drop like a stone following the independence referendum if they are governing Scotland so ineptly?

Seriously? Is there no end to this nonsense? You, specifically, were alluding to mainstream media weren't you? Not one comment on a small-scale forum. Why don't you stick to your story, instead of wandering all over the place when called out....or simply admit you have no evidence that backs your assertions, at all?

CaledonianCraig wrote:No on Brexit I'd say since vote to leave has been passed the TV coverage has been fair enough. Pre-vote was different but that was chiefly down to Nigel Farage being at the forefront depicting those who wanted to leave the EU in a bad light. Since the vote though I've seen countless reports on a national and local level where they look at viewpoints from both sides on how they feel things will change for them.

On the Scottish independence coverage it depends on your viewpoint doesn't it? But remember the national television networks are UK based and so level, unbiased reporting is never going to happen as things are. After all the biggest and longest standing TV company is the BRITISH Broadcasting Corporation.

CaledonianCraig wrote:Like I have said depends where you are looking. Look at forums, Facebook and Twitter and disparaging is certainly there but not on television/radio.

I was and am pro-Scottish independence and pretty ambivilent on the EU vote.

Yep, thought so and that isn't even going back far. Sheesh!

Oh and by the way, wasn't worth bringing up at the time, but your assumption that the BBC must harbour a negative bias against pro-indy Scots because it has the word 'British' in its name is pretty poor, especially as you rag on me cheekily suggesting that your failure to see that Scots Nats and Brexiteers have had the same treatment in the media reflects some subconscious anti-English bias in your perceptions. If you give it out, you need to be able to take it.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Derbymanc wrote:Your perceptions that those that won't scottish independance are knuckle dragging thugs, not that your the only one that wants independance (although gotta say i haven't seen as much of it as there was before the last referendum and all of my scottish buddy's think the SNP aren't very good at all.

I'd like to see these news reports/media coverage that shows anyone calling Scots that want independence, the names you claim

Well Tophat on here for a start:- 'From memory Craig is one of those blue faced knuckle draggers that couldn't see beyond Scottish nationalism when we had indyref1. So unsurprising really. Was always fun watching other more intelligent Scots on here (e.g. Super) tearing him apart.'

And I have always been very clear that I have saved equal wrath for Brexit voters. Which is your whole point that started this absurd debacle of a 'debate'.

You've veered off topic here fellas. Enough.

navyblueshorts wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Derbymanc wrote:Your perceptions that those that won't scottish independance are knuckle dragging thugs, not that your the only one that wants independance (although gotta say i haven't seen as much of it as there was before the last referendum and all of my scottish buddy's think the SNP aren't very good at all.

I'd like to see these news reports/media coverage that shows anyone calling Scots that want independence, the names you claim

Well Tophat on here for a start:- 'From memory Craig is one of those blue faced knuckle draggers that couldn't see beyond Scottish nationalism when we had indyref1. So unsurprising really. Was always fun watching other more intelligent Scots on here (e.g. Super) tearing him apart.'

And your Scottish buddy's are pretty much in the minority then as the SNP are the biggest supported party in Scotland now. And in the past week alone we have seen that the SNP are not as clueless as some since the NHS in Scotland are performing better than the rest of the UK with highest percentage of spending per patient and shortest waiting time at A & E etc etc etc. That is just one area that blows the theory out of the water that the SNP are clueless. Like I have said before if the SNP were only backed by voters for their stance on independence then why didn't their support drop like a stone following the independence referendum if they are governing Scotland so ineptly?

Seriously? Is there no end to this nonsense? You, specifically, were alluding to mainstream media weren't you? Not one comment on a small-scale forum. Why don't you stick to your story, instead of wandering all over the place when called out....or simply admit you have no evidence that backs your assertions, at all?

CaledonianCraig wrote:No on Brexit I'd say since vote to leave has been passed the TV coverage has been fair enough. Pre-vote was different but that was chiefly down to Nigel Farage being at the forefront depicting those who wanted to leave the EU in a bad light. Since the vote though I've seen countless reports on a national and local level where they look at viewpoints from both sides on how they feel things will change for them.

On the Scottish independence coverage it depends on your viewpoint doesn't it? But remember the national television networks are UK based and so level, unbiased reporting is never going to happen as things are. After all the biggest and longest standing TV company is the BRITISH Broadcasting Corporation.

CaledonianCraig wrote:Like I have said depends where you are looking. Look at forums, Facebook and Twitter and disparaging is certainly there but not on television/radio.

I was and am pro-Scottish independence and pretty ambivilent on the EU vote.

Yep, thought so and that isn't even going back far. Sheesh!

Oh and by the way, wasn't worth bringing up at the time, but your assumption that the BBC must harbour a negative bias against pro-indy Scots because it has the word 'British' in its name is pretty poor, especially as you rag on me cheekily suggesting that your failure to see that Scots Nats and Brexiteers have had the same treatment in the media reflects some subconscious anti-English bias in your perceptions. If you give it out, you need to be able to take it.

It is laughable that you and many others here perceive someone who seeks independence for their country as anti-English. It is an absurd and stereo-typical viewpoint and way off the mark.

I believe Scotland as an independent country would fair better - how that is anti-English I cannot see. If you feel the BBC remain impartial at all times on matters that involve them then you are wrong - look at the cover-ups at that corporation to cover for one of their own stars for evidence of that.

Isn't it a Brexit thread and we're discussing independence voters & media coverage?

Wipe the slate clean.  

Someone start another political-themed thread that all the usual boys want a say in but will be fresh and nobody will be allowed hate each other for the first 20 posts.

I've run out of ideas on topics that might work.

CaledonianCraig wrote:It is laughable that you and many others here perceive someone who seeks independence for their country as anti-English. It is an absurd and stereo-typical viewpoint and way off the mark.

I believe Scotland as an independent country would fair better - how that is anti-English I cannot see. If you feel the BBC remain impartial at all times on matters that involve them then you are wrong - look at the cover-ups at that corporation to cover for one of their own stars for evidence of that.

Yet again, you don't engage with the main point of my post and that is your assertion re. media treatment of the two groups. A bit pitiful, truth be told. I'll bow out now to save you further embarrassment .
You are also wildly off-beam about the rationale for my mentioning the anti-English thing in my last post. I'm pointing out how hypocritical you are, given your assumptions re. the BBC's bias. As TRUSS might suggest, don't throw stones etc. Stop digging.

TopHat24/7 wrote:Isn't it a Brexit thread and we're discussing independence voters & media coverage?

Yep. I'd tend to agree with that.