UK General Election 2017 Thread

[Muscular-mouse]

First topic message reminder :

Ok guys what are your predictions, how will you be voting and who do you want to win.

[dyrewolfe]

Sounds good no argument but if you wanted to round up all the @rsholes our jails would be full up of people but should we not separate the @rsholes from the deranged suicidal murdering @rsholes?

Lets hear your plan for doing that. I agree it would be an excellent idea...with just one minor problem...




How do you tell the deranged suicidal murdering a-holes from the regular ones, when outwardly they can look identical?

I have to take a trip into London tomorrow on the train and Tube and I can pretty much guarantee I'll get some suspicious looks, just because I'm a male of Asian appearance with a (laptop) rucksack.

Anyway, I'd just like to offer my deepest condolences to the victims and their families. This was a particularly vile attack, given the perpetrators must have known there would be a large number of kids and teenagers in the audience.

As with previous attacks its been great to see how the emergency services and people of Manchester have responded. They've been a credit to their city and the country.

[Samo]

We cant let them win. By showing fear and hatred to an entire race of people we are letting them win. By refusing to carry on with our lives we let them win. Most of these attacks are carried out by impressionable young men who have had an evil voice whispering in their ear most of their formative years. They tell them that the west hates them, and condition them to hate the west. If we show hate, they see hate and it qualifies the evil voices.

Demonization leads to radicalization. Rise above the hatred. Dont become the enemy that the voices claim we are.

My thoughts and condolences are with the victims, their families and Manchester as a whole.

[Galted]

I have to take a trip into London tomorrow on the train and Tube and I can pretty much guarantee I'll get some suspicious looks, just because I'm a male of Asian appearance with a (laptop) rucksack.

Keep muttering and looking at your watch and you should get a carriage all to yourself

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I'd say this has the been the first one that has had an emotional resonance with me. Children dying, in hospital, attacked. Driving into work and then getting here and seeing the little community that our primary school is, it felt closer to home than before

[Scottrf]

We cant let them win.  By showing fear and hatred to an entire race of people we are letting them win.  By refusing to carry on with our lives we let them win.  Most of these attacks are carried out by impressionable young men who have had an evil voice whispering in their ear most of their formative years.  They tell them that the west hates them, and condition them to hate the west.  If we show hate, they see hate and it qualifies the evil voices.

Demonization leads to radicalization.  Rise above the hatred.  Dont become the enemy that the voices claim we are.

My thoughts and condolences are with the victims, their families and Manchester as a whole.

So beta. Guessed wrestling fan before checking.

[Crimey]

We cant let them win.  By showing fear and hatred to an entire race of people we are letting them win.  By refusing to carry on with our lives we let them win.  Most of these attacks are carried out by impressionable young men who have had an evil voice whispering in their ear most of their formative years.  They tell them that the west hates them, and condition them to hate the west.  If we show hate, they see hate and it qualifies the evil voices.

Demonization leads to radicalization.  Rise above the hatred.  Dont become the enemy that the voices claim we are.

My thoughts and condolences are with the victims, their families and Manchester as a whole.

So beta. Guessed wrestling fan before checking.

How old are you? For your own sake I hope 14 because I can't imagine anyone older calling another person 'beta'.

[Scottrf]

How old are you? For your own sake I hope 14 because I can't imagine anyone older calling another person 'beta'.

I knew that post would be a hit.

But 'you must be 14' digs from a wrestling/wrestling roleplay fan. Really?

[Samo]

We cant let them win.  By showing fear and hatred to an entire race of people we are letting them win.  By refusing to carry on with our lives we let them win.  Most of these attacks are carried out by impressionable young men who have had an evil voice whispering in their ear most of their formative years.  They tell them that the west hates them, and condition them to hate the west.  If we show hate, they see hate and it qualifies the evil voices.

Demonization leads to radicalization.  Rise above the hatred.  Dont become the enemy that the voices claim we are.

My thoughts and condolences are with the victims, their families and Manchester as a whole.

So beta. Guessed wrestling fan before checking.

Thanks for a wonderful contribution

[TRUSSMAN66]

Shocking...Disgusting and downright cowardly.. and just up the road....Thoughts to the victims and their families...

Large queues of people giving blood...People last night offering their spare rooms out to people caught up in the horrific event...

Like at Westminster....Resolve..Bravery and the kind of human kindness that tells these scum that their pitiful acts of violence are futile.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I am happy to hand out quick bans to people who are unnecessarily incendiary on this thread, of which I've just raised and brought down the banhammer on one.

[GSC]

I assumed it'd be me

[TRUSSMAN66]

Newspapers looking to make political capital out of this attack already...

Doesn't get much lower....But no surprise.

[temporary21]

It's the referendum all over

[navyblueshorts]

Hipsters

Absolutely!

[Hammersmith harrier]

Newspapers looking to make political capital out of this attack already...

Doesn't get much lower....But no surprise.

It's not pretty but it is an important issue.

[TRUSSMAN66]

It can be unpretty and important on Thursday when the Election starts again...

Cheap and disrespectful....

[GSC]

Yeah political point scoring feels quite far below the belt today

[ONETWOFOREVER]

Trump has done a great thing in signing a multi billion dollor arms sale to saudi arabia where this sick twisted ideology originates. Thanks i am sure this will make the world a safer place no way saudi will allow for these weapons to say land in the arms of terrorists fighting in their proxy wars with iran and syria.

Any hope that yesterdays events will never happen again is fansical.

[TRUSSMAN66]

Trump has done a great thing in signing a multi billion dollor arms sale to saudi arabia where this sick twisted ideology originates. Thanks i am sure this will make the world a safer place no way saudi will allow for these weapons to say land in the arms of terrorists fighting in their proxy wars with iran and syria.

Any hope that yesterdays events will never happen again is fansical.

You'll find that Britain and the US have a history of selling weapons there....Yesterday's atrocity was caused by a bitter..no good loser that hates anything and everything with every breath he takes....Let us not try to proportion blame elsewhere...

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Terror threat level now raised to critical.

[TRUSSMAN66]

Terror threat level now raised to critical.

I'd expect nothing less...

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Yes, jolly is well done, but it has been raised his evening, and it doesn't get raised because they've had one. It gets raised because they think there is considerable threat of another.

[Derbymanc]

Always happens after a terror attack Dolph with the general consensus being that once ones gone off there's a chance that another is planned or there'll be a copycat.

Terrorism is bad enough but to aim it at children just chills me

[Crimey]

Always happens after a terror attack Dolph with the general consensus being that once ones gone off there's a chance that another is planned or there'll be a copycat.

To be fair this is the first time it's gone to critical since 2007, which was a year after the warning system was brought in.

[GSC]

3 men arrested, suspect I wouldn't like to be headed where they are

[ONETWOFOREVER]

Trump has done a great thing in signing a multi billion dollor arms sale to saudi arabia where this sick twisted ideology originates. Thanks i am sure this will make the world a safer place no way saudi will allow for these weapons to say land in the arms of terrorists fighting in their proxy wars with iran and syria.

Any hope that yesterdays events will never happen again is fansical.

You'll find that Britain and the US have a history of selling weapons there....Yesterday's atrocity was caused by a bitter..no good loser that hates anything and everything with every breath he takes....Let us not try to proportion blame elsewhere...

When you read a book do you start from the beginning or somewhere in the middle or at the end?

Read from the start to understand the bigger picture. Yes this was an act by a coward but saudi have been pushing this extreme ideology for the last 2 decades pure poison.

[the-goon]

Trump has done a great thing in signing a multi billion dollor arms sale to saudi arabia where this sick twisted ideology originates. Thanks i am sure this will make the world a safer place no way saudi will allow for these weapons to say land in the arms of terrorists fighting in their proxy wars with iran and syria.

Any hope that yesterdays events will never happen again is fansical.

You'll find that Britain and the US have a history of selling weapons there....Yesterday's atrocity was caused by a bitter..no good loser that hates anything and everything with every breath he takes....Let us not try to proportion blame elsewhere...

When you read a book do you start from the beginning or somewhere in the middle or at the end?

Read from the start to understand the bigger picture. Yes this was an act by a coward but saudi have been pushing this extreme ideology for the last 2 decades pure poison.

The ideology has been going for 1400 years.

[TRUSSMAN66]

Trump has done a great thing in signing a multi billion dollor arms sale to saudi arabia where this sick twisted ideology originates. Thanks i am sure this will make the world a safer place no way saudi will allow for these weapons to say land in the arms of terrorists fighting in their proxy wars with iran and syria.

Any hope that yesterdays events will never happen again is fansical.

You'll find that Britain and the US have a history of selling weapons there....Yesterday's atrocity was caused by a bitter..no good loser that hates anything and everything with every breath he takes....Let us not try to proportion blame elsewhere...

When you read a book do you start from the beginning or somewhere in the middle or at the end?

Read from the start to understand the bigger picture. Yes this was an act by a coward but saudi have been pushing this extreme ideology for the last 2 decades pure poison.

ISIS are considered the biggest enemy in Saudi Arabia..I care about the present not the past.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.....

[Ent]

On the actual election.

Just wonder where May is going with her social care plans, winter fuel payments and taking away the triple lock.

Chasing the young vote? Thinking her older voters are in hand anyway?

I agree with some of the above (unusual for conservative policies) as quite frankly they are unaffordable and in some cases pretty wrong. For example why should you get £300 for fuel if you have a huge pension and can easily afford it? Not sure about the social care plans as I feel you should be able to pass on your home to your children, guess we just need to be honest as a society and introduce a new tax or some increase to pay for proper social care if we aren't willing to "make" people sell their homes - or in reality transfer the ownership to their children well before they die/need care.

Labour going for far too much, there is literally no costing plan for the £9 billion required to bring it in a year early - chasing the 18-21 vote hard here.

[TRUSSMAN66]

May.. Keep you safe...Stability....Better negotiator.

Corbyn...10 pound minimum wage....Student fees.....Reckless... but a more active campaigner.. Basically trying a Sanders.

250,000 18-24s registered on the last day...Not enough..

Prediction . ..46 - 35....May 80 seat majority....

[Samo]

On the actual election.

Just wonder where May is going with her social care plans, winter fuel payments and taking away the triple lock.

Chasing the young vote? Thinking her older voters are in hand anyway?

I agree with some of the above (unusual for conservative policies) as quite frankly they are unaffordable and in some cases pretty wrong. For example why should you get £300 for fuel if you have a huge pension and can easily afford it? Not sure about the social care plans as I feel you should be able to pass on your home to your children, guess we just need to be honest as a society and introduce a new tax or some increase to pay for proper social care if we aren't willing to "make" people sell their homes - or in reality transfer the ownership to their children well before they die/need care.

Labour going for far too much, there is literally no costing plan for the £9 billion required to bring it in a year early - chasing the 18-21 vote hard here.

Wheres the extra £8bn for the NHS in the Tory manifesto going to come from? Theresa May cant tell us

[Pr4wn]

May a better negotiator? Based on what, exactly?

[Crimey]

Exactly Samo, it's weird that the Conservatives have made costing their major stick to beat Labour with, when their own manifesto is also not costed.

[Samo]

Exactly Samo, it's weird that the Conservatives have made costing their major stick to beat Labour with, when their own manifesto is also not costed.

But they're strong and stable mate. And increasing national debt by a number greater than any Labour government in history combined in just 7 years is a great endorsement of their economic credentials.

[Hammersmith harrier]

May a better negotiator? Based on what, exactly?

She was Home Secretary for a number of years.

[Crimey]

Theresa May being stable is very frustrating, she's been PM for less than a year and she's flipped flopped so many times it's incredible. Not to mention she's supposedly the only woman able to lead with Brexit, despite the fact that she was firmly in the Remain camp during the Referendum!

I have my problems with Corbyn, but nobody can deny that he sticks to his principles and in that regard is stable. Evidence

Of course, where Corbyn's instability comes in is the fact that the Labour party as a whole is a mess. The disconnect between members and MPs is crazy and Corbyn does seem to be too left-wing for the country as a whole. There is clearly a distrust of nationalisation across the board, but that does sometimes feel like a bit of brainwashing thing from both the Conservative party and private companies that stand to gain from free market dictating. Although, obviously being 23 my experiences of nationalised services are pretty much limited to the NHS. Which is often judged as one of the best health care systems in the world, I would pay more tax certainly to keep the NHS going.

[GSC]

Perception is reality. Miliband got hammered because nobody trusted him and Balls on the economy.

[TRUSSMAN66]

Re. Negotiator.  Based on the fact he can't persuade enough Labour mps to fill his shadow cabinet. ..perhaps.

He has a slim chance on June 8....Before last week slim had left town.

[Ent]

On the actual election.

Just wonder where May is going with her social care plans, winter fuel payments and taking away the triple lock.

Chasing the young vote? Thinking her older voters are in hand anyway?

I agree with some of the above (unusual for conservative policies) as quite frankly they are unaffordable and in some cases pretty wrong. For example why should you get £300 for fuel if you have a huge pension and can easily afford it? Not sure about the social care plans as I feel you should be able to pass on your home to your children, guess we just need to be honest as a society and introduce a new tax or some increase to pay for proper social care if we aren't willing to "make" people sell their homes - or in reality transfer the ownership to their children well before they die/need care.

Labour going for far too much, there is literally no costing plan for the £9 billion required to bring it in a year early - chasing the 18-21 vote hard here.

Wheres the extra £8bn for the NHS in the Tory manifesto going to come from? Theresa May cant tell us

Can't and won't are different things. The conservative manifesto is frustratingly uncosted but it is likely they can find that amount for the NHS over 5 years given what they had promised over the remaining 3 years of this parliament.

I would be a labour supporter but Corbyn is just fanciful, the student fee promise is just one example - he is just going to pluck £9.5 billion out of the air so 18-21 year olds have no fees, even though it has been demonstrated in Scotland this reduces the likelihood of lower income individuals going to university. The rise in corporation tax was meant to cover this but that won't go up until April 2018 so the money tree will have to be visited.

In addition none of the nationalisations are funded in the Labour manifesto.

I agree with some parts of it but he has just gone mental and promised the earth - in the unlikely event he wins the election there will be an awful lot of angry people when he delivers next to none of his manifesto pledges.

[TRUSSMAN66]

If we assume the SNP would never go into coalition with the Tories which is a safe bet....

Corbyn needs 37% + .................

What has he got going for him ???.....

1. He comes across as natural and is a better campaigner.....

2. people are struggling.............Push the outrageous and unreachable £10 minimum wage an hour...Show you're on the side of the strugglers...

3. He's managing to excite the kids with his Tuition fee policy..They voted for Clegg in 2010....Debt is a scary thing.....

4. Kids work hard and Parents love seeing their kids happy, focused, doing something constructive and even more importantly socialising with people.......I imagine some Parents will think WTF If my kid can go banging on doors I can hold my nose and vote Labour this time....He isn't going to win anyway..

5. The more people see Corbyn...He unwinds first impressions..

6. Sanders showed a grass roots, Shunned and loathed by the establishment campaign can work......He was 60 points down in Michigan and won there...He had no right to do that..

7. A few million people have signed up to vote in the last three weeks the majority are young people .....Undoubtedly a sizable chunk for Labour (18-24s...Labour always does better with kids)...............Addded to the Tactical voting which will no doubt happen with the Libs and Greens in two way marginals it may counter some of the UKip and Blairite move to Teresa May..

8. May won the locals 36-27.............Shows she struggled to get the vote out in a perceived wipeout.....Though GE's do get higher turnout per se..

9. Strong and Stable took a hit with her Social care tax.

If you were an Eternal optimist you'd look at the above............Unfortunately the why he can't win list is much longer...

But go big...Get out there and Stir the crap storm........In fairness he is doing that.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Exactly Samo, it's weird that the Conservatives have made costing their major stick to beat Labour with, when their own manifesto is also not costed.

But they're strong and stable mate.  And increasing national debt by a number greater than any Labour government in history combined in just 7 years is a great endorsement of their economic credentials.

It was labour who got the economy into that mess in the first place and let's be honest their manifesto is away with the fairies and they know it.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Oddly, a lot of students understand tuition fees. I detested the protests when I was at uni. £9k is high, but then again most people justnnwver pay it off and if they do it's cos they've done very well from having got their degree.

I also think Labour have gone too far with desperation to give all children free school meals. It isn't necessary

[GSC]

Corbyn and McDonnell may as well promise the moon, they won't be implementing any of it and they might pressure the Tories into matching some of it.

[TRUSSMAN66]

Biggest problem Labour have is that ruling party's always tend to poll better in General Elections than Locals ones and they lost those by 9 points to the Tories..

Also Labour have the age groups that are less likely to vote.....

Miracles happen though...Trump didn't have a single coherent policy either..

Never say Never...Remember May has to be 7 points ahead or its hung territory....

Experts say Corbyn is toast....So was Truman against Dewey before the great train journey through America..

Keep pressing the flesh....She won't be pressing any..

[Hammersmith harrier]

Corbyn and McDonnell may as well promise the moon, they won't be implementing any of it and they might pressure the Tories into matching some of it.

It's a manifesto designed to reduce the majority rather than win, if it were implemented this country would be in dire straits.

[TRUSSMAN66]

Perhaps a dose of reality from Hammer....Plenty of people think it's about keeping leftist control of the Labour party for Corbyn.

Maybe...

Youngsters dream though.. I used to..

Long may they continue to..

Prescott was a waiter on a ship and Deputy PM.

#Believe

[Muscular-mouse]

Exactly Samo, it's weird that the Conservatives have made costing their major stick to beat Labour with, when their own manifesto is also not costed.

But they're strong and stable mate.  And increasing national debt by a number greater than any Labour government in history combined in just 7 years is a great endorsement of their economic credentials.

It was labour who got the economy into that mess in the first place and let's be honest their manifesto is away with the fairies and they know it.

Labour was in power when there was a global financial crisis but 9 years later with 7 of those years under tory leadership the debt has increased massively (by 500billion I believe).

We were told the debt would be cleared after 5 years of a tory government and well that never happened and we have increased the debt massively

We were told immigration would be reduced to net sub 100,000 and that never happened and we have the highest levels of immigration ever in this country.

The two main promises the tories gave have not even been close to being achieved and that's after 7 years of them in power. Yet those same promises are in their manifesto (the 3rd time they have been in their manifesto).

What is funny is that people still vote for them based on them thinking the conservatives are tough on immigration and will reduce the debt. They wont do either as proven by their 7 years in power.

[TRUSSMAN66]

Perception matters nothing else..

Can you really see Corbyn in Downing Street ????

Nope....

But kids want free education...Kids work..Parents love kids..Grandparents love kids..

Corbyn can lose but spoil the party.

[Muscular-mouse]

why are the lib dems not promising to scrap tuition fees too?

[Samo]

On the actual election.

Just wonder where May is going with her social care plans, winter fuel payments and taking away the triple lock.

Chasing the young vote? Thinking her older voters are in hand anyway?

I agree with some of the above (unusual for conservative policies) as quite frankly they are unaffordable and in some cases pretty wrong. For example why should you get £300 for fuel if you have a huge pension and can easily afford it? Not sure about the social care plans as I feel you should be able to pass on your home to your children, guess we just need to be honest as a society and introduce a new tax or some increase to pay for proper social care if we aren't willing to "make" people sell their homes - or in reality transfer the ownership to their children well before they die/need care.

Labour going for far too much, there is literally no costing plan for the £9 billion required to bring it in a year early - chasing the 18-21 vote hard here.

Wheres the extra £8bn for the NHS in the Tory manifesto going to come from? Theresa May cant tell us

Can't and won't are different things. The conservative manifesto is frustratingly uncosted but it is likely they can find that amount for the NHS over 5 years given what they had promised over the remaining 3 years of this parliament.

You say that like one is preferable to the other.

She either cant tell us which means they're just making it up as they go along and hope people are too stupid to notice their incompetence which should set off alarm bells. Or she won't tell us which means shes afraid of the backlash because its likely going to be massively unpopular and she'll be forced into another humiliating U-turn, which should raise alarm bells.

At this point I wouldnt be surprised if she is deliberately acting inept in the hope Corbyn wins so she doesnt have to deal with Brexit.

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