UK General Election 2017 Thread

[Muscular-mouse]

First topic message reminder :

Ok guys what are your predictions, how will you be voting and who do you want to win.

[CaledonianCraig]

So the SNP are losing seats to a unionist party compared to the last election where they lost a vote to unionist voters, yet another vote is a goer?

What part of the answer did you not understand?

The Tories are begging for unionist voters to unite behind them to vote against the SNP - in short. They are giving no indication whatsoever of what their policies or selling points are but banging out the message for unionists to vote for them. Understand? Now in some constituencies if enough Tory and Labour voters heed the call then it could win a few seats in areas where unionist voters are of a high enough number. That is your reason right there. Surely to high heavens IF the SNP have governed so badly as this forum likes to portray there would be a far bigger collapse than a few seats? Especially, considering how long the SNP have governed.

I'm making a simple comparison Craig.

Support for the SNP is lower than at a point when they lost a Indy ref, supposedly down to a stronger unionist vote. Yet an Indy ref is a goer?

I am in the camp where would be prepared to wait a few years for another referendum - I think I have said that before but that hand has been called. Why? Brexit vote is why. Scots voted to remain in Europe and are being taken out of Europe. That was a momentous decision and one that even unionists at time recognised was a trigger for another referendum vote. If the SNP had not pushed for a ref on the back of such a momentous decision then in future it would be held against them. I mean would a ref be granted in say five years time if it were solely because of a financial recession say? No as Westminster would brush that away as too trivial a reason IF SNP were to have ignored the Brexit vote.

As I said I don't see a few seats lost down to a stronger unionist vote -rather a more organised unionist vote where unionist Labour supporters vote Tory or vice versa in order to bolster a unionist candidate.

[CaledonianCraig]

Just to say that if the SNP are being portrayed as unfair for pushing for another indy referendum I would say comfortably they have 40% of population wanting one. That is far more support than the Tories would have on fox hunting which they will bring back without any referendums and I would guess support for that would stand at less than 20%.

[Hammersmith harrier]

You can't compare an independence referendum to fox hunting at all, it's far too simplistic a view to think voting SNP means voting for independence.

[Muscular-mouse]

You can't compare an independence referendum to fox hunting at all, it's far too simplistic a view to think voting SNP means voting for independence.

Well I very much doubt any unionist supporter would vote snp...

[navyblueshorts]

In return they got a vote changing how governments are elected among other things I assume.

This is how often how negotiations go, you have to compromise sometimes.

Exactly, they sold off their soul in exchange for a referendum on getting rid of first past the post. If they had any backbone and any credibility they would have refused the offer of getting the referendum on proportunality and stick to their main election promise for the past 2 elections of voting aganst tuition fee increases

In the real world would you rather get something you want or nothing

Well they could have not voted for trebling tuition fees and then they would have got something that they wanted which was to not have tuition fees increased.

You cant spend 6 years campaigning against tuition fees and then 3 months after getting into power vote in favour of trebling them. Of course the public will never back lib dems again after that massive lie.

it would be the equivalent  of labour who have spent the past year campaigning for an increase in minimum wage to then get in power and reduce minimum wage. It was political suicide and the lib dems have lost 50 mps and scores of European mps and local councillors because of that lie.

More fool them then. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. People voted Labour back in after Bliar/Iraq. People voted the Tories in after the Poll Tax. Etc etc.

Youre calling the british public fools for not voting lib dem because they lost credibility and trust? You can vote for a party that lied to you just to stay in power but me and the majority will never trust them again.

No. What I'm calling foolish is letting a single issue apparently make you never vote for them again. Your selective vision on this is quite funny, given the behaviours of every other party ever to take part in politics.

Edit: As a followup, are you planning to vote Labour?

[CaledonianCraig]

You can't compare an independence referendum to fox hunting at all, it's far too simplistic a view to think voting SNP means voting for independence.

No but are you saying it is morally right and politically correct that the Tories will push through a bill that most people on the UK absolutely do not want.

Correct with regards SNP. Not everyone votes for them and supports independence but vast majority do. And likewise with Tory and Labour voters they are not all union backers but most are.

[Hammersmith harrier]

I'm perfectly fine with them passing the bill if they get voted in because it's what they're there for, not sure why I'd be against it. Your opinion and random assertions would make an ounce of sense if you showed some evidence instead of plucking out random numbers.

[Muscular-mouse]

In return they got a vote changing how governments are elected among other things I assume.

This is how often how negotiations go, you have to compromise sometimes.

Exactly, they sold off their soul in exchange for a referendum on getting rid of first past the post. If they had any backbone and any credibility they would have refused the offer of getting the referendum on proportunality and stick to their main election promise for the past 2 elections of voting aganst tuition fee increases

In the real world would you rather get something you want or nothing

Well they could have not voted for trebling tuition fees and then they would have got something that they wanted which was to not have tuition fees increased.

You cant spend 6 years campaigning against tuition fees and then 3 months after getting into power vote in favour of trebling them. Of course the public will never back lib dems again after that massive lie.

it would be the equivalent  of labour who have spent the past year campaigning for an increase in minimum wage to then get in power and reduce minimum wage. It was political suicide and the lib dems have lost 50 mps and scores of European mps and local councillors because of that lie.

More fool them then. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. People voted Labour back in after Bliar/Iraq. People voted the Tories in after the Poll Tax. Etc etc.

Youre calling the british public fools for not voting lib dem because they lost credibility and trust? You can vote for a party that lied to you just to stay in power but me and the majority will never trust them again.

No. What I'm calling foolish is letting a single issue apparently make you never vote for them again. Your selective vision on this is quite funny, given the behaviours of every other party ever to take part in politics.

Edit: As a followup, are you planning to vote Labour?

I listed 5 things that they did that lost the public support. Tuition fees is the biggest because they spent years campaigning against them and they trebled them. They lost credibility and lost public trust.

but don't worry you are free to vote for a party that lied about its main policy for 6 years

[CaledonianCraig]

You can't compare an independence referendum to fox hunting at all, it's far too simplistic a view to think voting SNP means voting for independence.

Well I very much doubt any unionist supporter would vote snp...

Tories are the staunchest unionists whereas Labour voters are not so staunch and a fair few back independence but not the SNP.

[CaledonianCraig]

I'm perfectly fine with them passing the bill if they get voted in because it's what they're there for, not sure why I'd be against it. Your opinion and random assertions would make an ounce of sense if you showed some evidence instead of plucking out random numbers.

Polls are out there on fox hunting and they all measure up roughly 80-20 against it. That is a big portion not wanting it but what the heck the Tories love a good old rip a fox to f*** pastime in the name of sport so they will push it through because THEY want it regardless of the British public. Okay you may want to dismiss the odd random poll but these are consistent big no's to it and all can't be wrong.

[Hammersmith harrier]

The British public are the ones who are voting for them, if they're that against it don't vote for them but don't let get in the way of your usual agenda.

[navyblueshorts]

In return they got a vote changing how governments are elected among other things I assume.

This is how often how negotiations go, you have to compromise sometimes.

Exactly, they sold off their soul in exchange for a referendum on getting rid of first past the post. If they had any backbone and any credibility they would have refused the offer of getting the referendum on proportunality and stick to their main election promise for the past 2 elections of voting aganst tuition fee increases

In the real world would you rather get something you want or nothing

Well they could have not voted for trebling tuition fees and then they would have got something that they wanted which was to not have tuition fees increased.

You cant spend 6 years campaigning against tuition fees and then 3 months after getting into power vote in favour of trebling them. Of course the public will never back lib dems again after that massive lie.

it would be the equivalent  of labour who have spent the past year campaigning for an increase in minimum wage to then get in power and reduce minimum wage. It was political suicide and the lib dems have lost 50 mps and scores of European mps and local councillors because of that lie.

More fool them then. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. People voted Labour back in after Bliar/Iraq. People voted the Tories in after the Poll Tax. Etc etc.

Youre calling the british public fools for not voting lib dem because they lost credibility and trust? You can vote for a party that lied to you just to stay in power but me and the majority will never trust them again.

No. What I'm calling foolish is letting a single issue apparently make you never vote for them again. Your selective vision on this is quite funny, given the behaviours of every other party ever to take part in politics.

Edit: As a followup, are you planning to vote Labour?

I listed 5 things that they did that lost the public support. Tuition fees is the biggest because they spent years campaigning against them and they trebled them. They lost credibility and lost public trust.

but don't worry you are free to vote for a party that lied about its main policy for 6 years

You listed 4 more? Missed that given your blatant obsession with the fees issue. Slating a particular party for an issue like the fees is, basically, hypocrisy as they're all either at it or have done exactly the same in the past. Directly affected by the £3k to £9k change were you? I can understand it, but to say you'll under no circumstances ever vote for them again because of that one issue is short sighted. If you're planning on voting Labour, which would be my guess, how can you live with yourself after Iraq? Inconvenient things, single issues.

[navyblueshorts]

I'm perfectly fine with them passing the bill if they get voted in because it's what they're there for, not sure why I'd be against it. Your opinion and random assertions would make an ounce of sense if you showed some evidence instead of plucking out random numbers.

Polls are out there on fox hunting and they all measure up roughly 80-20 against it. That is a big portion not wanting it but what the heck the Tories love a good old rip a fox to f*** pastime in the name of sport so they will push it through because THEY want it regardless of the British public. Okay you may want to dismiss the odd random poll but these are consistent big no's to it and all can't be wrong.

Cite them please.

You reveal your thinking perfectly with "Tories love a good old rip a fox to f*** pastime in the name of sport" - you simply don't like the idea of the traditional Tarquins and Henriettas being involved.

[CaledonianCraig]

The British public are the ones who are voting for them, if they're that against it don't vote for them but don't let get in the way of your usual agenda.

Oh right so they are voting for them because they support fox hunting? Do me a favour.

They will probably be voted in on support from ex-UKIP voters who have strong anti-European sentiment and see the Tories as their best alternative now that UKIP are all but dead. And people  (the gullible) will soak up the smear campaigns the Tories have run on Labour. Those are the grounds they will be voted on and nothing to do with people backing fox hunting.

[CaledonianCraig]

I'm perfectly fine with them passing the bill if they get voted in because it's what they're there for, not sure why I'd be against it. Your opinion and random assertions would make an ounce of sense if you showed some evidence instead of plucking out random numbers.

Polls are out there on fox hunting and they all measure up roughly 80-20 against it. That is a big portion not wanting it but what the heck the Tories love a good old rip a fox to f*** pastime in the name of sport so they will push it through because THEY want it regardless of the British public. Okay you may want to dismiss the odd random poll but these are consistent big no's to it and all can't be wrong.

Cite them please.

You reveal your thinking perfectly with "Tories love a good old rip a fox to f*** pastime in the name of sport" - you simply don't like the idea of the traditional Tarquins and Henriettas being involved.

Here you go:-

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/fox-hunting-boxing-day-poll-opposition-all-time-high-theresa-may-hunting-ban-act-vote-a7495336.html

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/fox-hunting-poll-reveals-74-6066347

http://www.countryfile.com/explore-

[Samo]

Or if you'd like a more recent source:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/conservative-manifesto-bring-back-fox-hunting-only-one-in-10-voters-support-a7757891.html

or a poll from a different source:

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/12/29/releasing-prisoners-early-mistake-knighting-and-fo/

[Hammersmith harrier]

Where did I say that's why people are voting for them?

You come across like a spoilt immature brat, it's quite simply if you're that against fox hunting vote for someone else.

[CaledonianCraig]

Where did I say that's why people are voting for them?

You come across like a spoilt immature brat, it's quite simply if you're that against fox hunting vote for someone else.

It's not me throwing insults around and I am proud to say I have never voted Tory in my life and I never will.

[GSC]

I'm fine with a vote on Fox Hunting if there's fair debate both ways that doesn't just paint them as harmless critters

[Ent]

The SNP vote is baffling as is Craigs logic.

More people voted no in the independence referendum than voted for the SNP in the last westminster election.

The breakdown by council area shows only 4 areas in which the Yes vote was larger than the No vote.

http://www.electionsscotland.info/info/13/referendum/42/scottish_independence_referendum_2014_-_vote_breakdown

If the SNP support was falling because of tactical unionist voting/mobilising the unionist vote they would be losing a lot more seats.

Not everyone votes for the SNP to back independence, they have run on the ticket for a second referendum and have falling support and are likely to lose seats in the election - they've no traction at all to ask for another referendum.

Fox hunting polls:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/fox-hunting-boxing-day-poll-opposition-all-time-high-theresa-may-hunting-ban-act-vote-a7495336.html

https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/attitudes-hunting-2016?language_content_entity=en-uk

There is no appetite for this from the public, it was banned in 2004 - it is a thing of the past. May is just trying to slip it in because she knows she is going to win the election, much like she tried to slip in her social care reform.

The lib dem vote was an alternative vote, when they got into coalition they reneged on nearly all of their promises including their flag ship policy. The propped up a conservative government that brought huge austerity etc etc they were always going to be dead in the water after the coalition government.

[Ent]

I'm fine with a vote on Fox Hunting if there's fair debate both ways that doesn't just paint them as harmless critters

Don't see a debate in hunting animals for sport that involves them being ripped apart by dogs at the end of the chase.

It's been banned for over a decade, it's a thing of the past, it's done.

[CaledonianCraig]

I'm fine with a vote on Fox Hunting if there's fair debate both ways that doesn't just paint them as harmless critters

Nobody is saying they are harmless - neither is man but would you advocate such a sport with a man being chased until exhausted and then ripped apart by a pack of hungry dogs all in the name of sport?

[Samo]

I'm fine with a vote on Fox Hunting if there's fair debate both ways that doesn't just paint them as harmless critters

When the method of hunting involves something a bit less 'terrified fox gets torn to pieces in agony' then I reckon theres a fair vote to be had.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Where did I say that's why people are voting for them?

You come across like a spoilt immature brat, it's quite simply if you're that against fox hunting vote for someone else.

It's not me throwing insults around and I am proud to say I have never voted Tory in my life and I never will.

You'll find you do throw insults around all the time but it's just hidden within nonsense.

I'm proud to say I do vote Tory and always will, could be worse I could vote SNP.

[Samo]

Where did I say that's why people are voting for them?

You come across like a spoilt immature brat, it's quite simply if you're that against fox hunting vote for someone else.

It's not me throwing insults around and I am proud to say I have never voted Tory in my life and I never will.

You'll find you do throw insults around all the time but it's just hidden within nonsense.

I'm proud to say I do vote Tory and always will, could be worse I could vote SNP.

Proud to vote for a party that kills disabled people? Different strokes I suppose.

[Hammersmith harrier]

I'm fine with a vote on Fox Hunting if there's fair debate both ways that doesn't just paint them as harmless critters

Nobody is saying they are harmless - neither is man but would you advocate such a sport with a man being chased until exhausted and then ripped apart by a pack of hungry dogs all in the name of sport?

Outstanding logic.

[Ent]

Where did I say that's why people are voting for them?

You come across like a spoilt immature brat, it's quite simply if you're that against fox hunting vote for someone else.

It's not me throwing insults around and I am proud to say I have never voted Tory in my life and I never will.

You'll find you do throw insults around all the time but it's just hidden within nonsense.

I'm proud to say I do vote Tory and always will, could be worse I could vote SNP.

Even though they have become more centrist? Never say never, shows you don't have any sort of thought process in life.

[Hammersmith harrier]

There's no other right wing option so I'm unlikely to ever change, UKIP have too many policies I disagree with.

[CaledonianCraig]

The SNP vote is baffling as is Craigs logic.

More people voted no in the independence referendum than voted for the SNP in the last westminster election.

The breakdown by council area shows only 4 areas in which the Yes vote was larger than the No vote.

http://www.electionsscotland.info/info/13/referendum/42/scottish_independence_referendum_2014_-_vote_breakdown

If the SNP support was falling because of tactical unionist voting/mobilising the unionist vote they would be losing a lot more seats.

Not everyone votes for the SNP to back independence, they have run on the ticket for a second referendum and have falling support and are likely to lose seats in the election - they've no traction at all to ask for another referendum.

That still goes nowhere to answering why the SNP will win three quarters of all seats in Scotland though does it? The answer is there but whichever it is I think people here can't bear to say it.

[Muscular-mouse]

[Muscular-mouse]

[Samo]

I cant vote SNP anymore because their track record is less than stellar. They'll lose a couple of seats to the Tories but will still sweep Scotland, though I would bet with a smaller % of the overall vote.

[Muscular-mouse]

In return they got a vote changing how governments are elected among other things I assume.

This is how often how negotiations go, you have to compromise sometimes.

Exactly, they sold off their soul in exchange for a referendum on getting rid of first past the post. If they had any backbone and any credibility they would have refused the offer of getting the referendum on proportunality and stick to their main election promise for the past 2 elections of voting aganst tuition fee increases

In the real world would you rather get something you want or nothing

Well they could have not voted for trebling tuition fees and then they would have got something that they wanted which was to not have tuition fees increased.

You cant spend 6 years campaigning against tuition fees and then 3 months after getting into power vote in favour of trebling them. Of course the public will never back lib dems again after that massive lie.

it would be the equivalent  of labour who have spent the past year campaigning for an increase in minimum wage to then get in power and reduce minimum wage. It was political suicide and the lib dems have lost 50 mps and scores of European mps and local councillors because of that lie.

More fool them then. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. People voted Labour back in after Bliar/Iraq. People voted the Tories in after the Poll Tax. Etc etc.

Youre calling the british public fools for not voting lib dem because they lost credibility and trust? You can vote for a party that lied to you just to stay in power but me and the majority will never trust them again.

No. What I'm calling foolish is letting a single issue apparently make you never vote for them again. Your selective vision on this is quite funny, given the behaviours of every other party ever to take part in politics.

Edit: As a followup, are you planning to vote Labour?

I listed 5 things that they did that lost the public support. Tuition fees is the biggest because they spent years campaigning against them and they trebled them. They lost credibility and lost public trust.

but don't worry you are free to vote for a party that lied about its main policy for 6 years

You listed 4 more? Missed that given your blatant obsession with the fees issue. Slating a particular party for an issue like the fees is, basically, hypocrisy as they're all either at it or have done exactly the same in the past. Directly affected by the £3k to £9k change were you? I can understand it, but to say you'll under no circumstances ever vote for them again because of that one issue is short sighted. If you're planning on voting Labour, which would be my guess, how can you live with yourself after Iraq? Inconvenient things, single issues.

It was their main policy for the past 6 years. They got so many votes based on their support for free education and then they lied and trebled tuition fees.

Like I said you can vote for them but that's your vote. I wont vote for a bunch of liars and the public agree.

[Pr4wn]

I'm fine with a vote on Fox Hunting if there's fair debate both ways that doesn't just paint them as harmless critters

Nobody is saying they are harmless - neither is man but would you advocate such a sport with a man being chased until exhausted and then ripped apart by a pack of hungry dogs all in the name of sport?

Outstanding logic.

Ok, would you advocate a sport where a dog was chased until exhausted and then ripped apart by a pack of other dogs in the name of sport?

[Muscular-mouse]

There's no other right wing option so I'm unlikely to ever change, UKIP have too many policies I disagree with.

So you only vote for a party if they are right wing?

[Hammersmith harrier]

I wouldn't no but I don't regard them as vermin like foxes.

[Hammersmith harrier]

There's no other right wing option so I'm unlikely to ever change, UKIP have too many policies I disagree with.

So you only vote for a party if they are right wing?

Well yes I'm against left wing politics.

[Pr4wn]

I wouldn't no but I don't regard them as vermin like foxes.

Outstanding logic. You seem like a wonderful human being.

[Pr4wn]

There's no other right wing option so I'm unlikely to ever change, UKIP have too many policies I disagree with.

So you only vote for a party if they are right wing?

Well yes I'm against left wing politics.

Me too, I prefer it when disabled people are too poor to live.

[Samo]

There's no other right wing option so I'm unlikely to ever change, UKIP have too many policies I disagree with.

So you only vote for a party if they are right wing?

Well yes I'm against left wing politics.

Yeah I hate the idea of an equal and fair society aswell.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Life isn't fair and equal, I'm unwilling to see people living off of the achievements of others.

[Samo]

Thats more than a bit selfish. Im assuming you never use the NHS or plan on drawing your state pension?

[Hammersmith harrier]

Thats more than a bit selfish.

Call it selfish if you want but I personally don't feel anyone is entitled to anything for free.

[Muscular-mouse]

Thats more than a bit selfish.

Call it selfish if you want but I personally don't feel anyone is entitled to anything for free.

Why not?

[CaledonianCraig]

Where did I say that's why people are voting for them?

You come across like a spoilt immature brat, it's quite simply if you're that against fox hunting vote for someone else.

It's not me throwing insults around and I am proud to say I have never voted Tory in my life and I never will.

You'll find you do throw insults around all the time but it's just hidden within nonsense.

I'm proud to say I do vote Tory and always will, could be worse I could vote SNP.

Even though they have become more centrist? Never say never, shows you don't have any sort of thought process in life.

No it says I have morals and principles and stick to them. All of my life the Tories have been on a different planet to what I want/expect a political party to do. They haven't changed in all that time and is why I'd never vote for them. A lot of Tory policies have caused a lot of pain in my life. I see them as akin to playground school bullies.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Thats more than a bit selfish.

Call it selfish if you want but I personally don't feel anyone is entitled to anything for free.

Why not?

Why would you expect to be given anything for free when others work hard for it?

[Muscular-mouse]

Thats more than a bit selfish.

Call it selfish if you want but I personally don't feel anyone is entitled to anything for free.

Why not?

Why would you expect to be given anything for free when others work hard for it?

Because that helping hand may be what I need to get me a job or get me educated etc. By helping others we increase social mobility.

Would you like the streets of the UK to look like India where homelessness is everywhere and poverty is everywhere and children die from malnutrition and if you are born into a poor family you will always stay poor eg no social mobility.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Thats more than a bit selfish.

Call it selfish if you want but I personally don't feel anyone is entitled to anything for free.

Why not?

Why would you expect to be given anything for free when others work hard for it?

Because that helping hand may be what I need to get me a job or get me educated etc. By helping others we increase social mobility.

Would you like the streets of the UK to look like India where homelessness is everywhere and poverty is everywhere and children die from malnutrition and if you are born into a poor family you will always stay poor eg no social mobility.

I will not be extending my hand to help you at all, to be honest I despise socialism and everything it stands for. My family worked hard to enable themselves the luxury of bringing up a child, providing me with everything I needed, not wanting hand outs and teaching me the importance of hard work and achieving in life. If your parents didn't have that foresight you should probably look no further to why you're in the situation you are, further education is a basic human right we're all entitled to, it's something you have to pay for.

[Muscular-mouse]

Thats more than a bit selfish.

Call it selfish if you want but I personally don't feel anyone is entitled to anything for free.

Why not?

Why would you expect to be given anything for free when others work hard for it?

Because that helping hand may be what I need to get me a job or get me educated etc. By helping others we increase social mobility.

Would you like the streets of the UK to look like India where homelessness is everywhere and poverty is everywhere and children die from malnutrition and if you are born into a poor family you will always stay poor eg no social mobility.

I will not be extending my hand to help you at all, to be honest I despise socialism and everything it stands for. My family worked hard to enable themselves the luxury of bringing up a child, providing me with everything I needed, not wanting hand outs and teaching me the importance of hard work and achieving in life. If your parents didn't have that foresight you should probably look no further to why you're in the situation you are, further education is a basic human right we're all entitled to, it's something you have to pay for.

I actually feel like your family brought you up the wrong way. I would hate for my kids to have such a selfish view as yourself where they only care about themselves and no one else.

I just hope that when you get old or if you get sick and can't afford medical care that society hasn't changed to follow your views because otherwise you will die at home in your sick bed and no one will help you.

and you hate socialism yet you use state schools to educate your child which is paid for by me and is a cornerstone of socialism.

[Hammersmith harrier]

My family brought me up in a way whereby I don't leach off the state because I have nothing, i'd hate to live a life where i'm not comfortable.

If I end up in that situation then I only have myself to blame and won't be complaining about my lot one bit, it's highly doubtful I do but i'll deal with the consequences if they arise.

Our education system is in not part socialist, there being an independent alternative is the very definition of capitalism.

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