Ireland November Tests.

First topic message reminder :

What would we like to see?
With ringrose definitely out, and henshaw and Payne looking unlikely, who shall step into the centre pairing?
If all our back row are fit whats the best combo?
Will tonner continue in the row or will he be usurped?

Lots of questions, and the season hasnt even started yet

Everyone should aspire to clock time on Schmidt's metaphorical teet. Manna from rugby heaven for runts like Stockdale.

Collapse2005 wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Lol. Should Stockdale just set up his own team away from all the meanies that try to "coach" him?

You're a bit of an idiot.

Says the guy who doesn't think a young player needs the input of a world class coach to further his career.

Even Drico was learning from Schmidt almost every session at the end of has career according to the great man himself.

And according to Luke Fitz and Lowest Centre of Gravity on the Planet Fergus McFadden, BOD got put in his box too on occasion by Joe.  The story of Bod missing a small move in training and Joe remembering it as the players talked about training later.  Bod was explaining why he missed the pass or whatever and Joe quickly inserted "But a good player wouldn't have missed it"  Ouch!  And according to the boys, Joe didn't style it as a joke.... but was taking the team king down to size amongst his sycophants.

That's great to hear. Everyone has room to improve, if you fawn over your players all the time they will just stagnate over time. There is no such thing as a perfect player so why not strive for constant improvement. Stockdale may appear to be a prodigy but we have seen it all go wrong for young players before. Luke Fitz being a great example.

Dave Kearney f**ked up his whole career by being on the wing. That's another thing Fitz laughed about with McFadden...nobody wants to be a wing when they are starting their career...but you get given the slot with the option of this is it if you want to stay in rugby.

Anyway, for me, Dave Kearney has always been a centre playing his entire career on the wing. Fitz, on the other hand, was always a complete madman, playing on the wing.... and McFadden well...he's just plain nuts.

Collapse2005 wrote:That's great to hear. Everyone has room to improve, if you fawn over your players all the time they will just stagnate over time. There is no such thing as a perfect player so why not strive for constant improvement. Stockdale may appear to be a prodigy but we have seen it all go wrong for young players before. Luke Fitz being a great example.

Is that what happened to the Kearney brothers?

Where is Zebo when you need him???

At least his presence (or not as the case may have been) kept the discussions away from the two hairy lads from Louth.

Come back Zeebs, all is forgiven.... but pull up them socks before you do

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:That's great to hear. Everyone has room to improve, if you fawn over your players all the time they will just stagnate over time. There is no such thing as a perfect player so why not strive for constant improvement. Stockdale may appear to be a prodigy but we have seen it all go wrong for young players before. Luke Fitz being a great example.

Is that what happened to the Kearney brothers?

No if anyone is able to take criticism it is them. They are team players, not whingers.

I'm just shocked that Joe Schmidt has a teat even if it was metaphorical. I thought Joe's way was to force the knowledge into you as opposed to being drip fed which would be in need of an entirely different metaphorical body part.
I'm also shocked that Stockdale (Oxo) likes the Prodigy, I thought that was a bit before his time. Next thing you'll be telling me he likes Fat Boy Slim.

Collapse2005 wrote:That's great to hear. Everyone has room to improve, if you fawn over your players all the time they will just stagnate over time. There is no such thing as a perfect player so why not strive for constant improvement. Stockdale may appear to be a prodigy but we have seen it all go wrong for young players before. Luke Fitz being a great example.

Is that the same rule for coaches?

carpet baboon wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:That's great to hear. Everyone has room to improve, if you fawn over your players all the time they will just stagnate over time. There is no such thing as a perfect player so why not strive for constant improvement. Stockdale may appear to be a prodigy but we have seen it all go wrong for young players before. Luke Fitz being a great example.

Is that the same rule for coaches?

Well I have to say that the opposite treatment didn't help poor Decco Kidney. The poor man was lambasted for years (by folks that included me) and things still just didn't stagnate, they virtually petrified. So over-criticism don't always work either.

Pete330v2 wrote:I'm just shocked that Joe Schmidt has a teat even if it was metaphorical. I thought Joe's way was to force the knowledge into you as opposed to being drip fed which would be in need of an entirely different metaphorical body part.
I'm also shocked that Stockdale (Oxo) likes the Prodigy, I thought that was a bit before his time. Next thing you'll be telling me he likes Fat Boy Slim.

But sure you told me a while back that you have all George Formby's collection of recordings?

SecretFly wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:I'm just shocked that Joe Schmidt has a teat even if it was metaphorical. I thought Joe's way was to force the knowledge into you as opposed to being drip fed which would be in need of an entirely different metaphorical body part.
I'm also shocked that Stockdale (Oxo) likes the Prodigy, I thought that was a bit before his time. Next thing you'll be telling me he likes Fat Boy Slim.

But sure you told me  a while back that you have all George Formby's collection of recordings?    

I do, I'm 95

SecretFly wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:That's great to hear. Everyone has room to improve, if you fawn over your players all the time they will just stagnate over time. There is no such thing as a perfect player so why not strive for constant improvement. Stockdale may appear to be a prodigy but we have seen it all go wrong for young players before. Luke Fitz being a great example.

Is that the same rule for coaches?

Well I have to say that the opposite treatment didn't help poor Decco Kidney.  The poor man was lambasted for years (by folks that included me) and things still just didn't stagnate, they virtually petrified.  So over-criticism don't always work either.

This is where the hypocrisy is at its worst. The Schmidtoids mocked and sneered the ardent Munster fans who fanatically defended their coach. Yet they are just as bad, if not worse, when it is their own hero getting criticised.

But Joe has us in forth consistentlyish or sometimes even higher - yet poor Kidney eventually got us to 9th.

The Schmidt SS have their excuses.

SecretFly wrote:But Joe has us in forth consistentlyish or sometimes even higher - yet poor Kidney eventually got us to 9th.

The Schmidt SS have their excuses.

Which is why Kidney got his own clock and Schmidt didn't. The criticism between the two is incomparable, really. My point is that any criticism that Schmidt receives is totally unwelcome by his worshippers. Those same hypocrites would never have let the Kidney worshippers away with the same. Same with Zebo vs Kearney actually. Two sides of the same coin.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:That's great to hear. Everyone has room to improve, if you fawn over your players all the time they will just stagnate over time. There is no such thing as a perfect player so why not strive for constant improvement. Stockdale may appear to be a prodigy but we have seen it all go wrong for young players before. Luke Fitz being a great example.

Is that the same rule for coaches?

Well I have to say that the opposite treatment didn't help poor Decco Kidney.  The poor man was lambasted for years (by folks that included me) and things still just didn't stagnate, they virtually petrified.  So over-criticism don't always work either.

This is where the hypocrisy is at its worst. The Schmidtoids mocked and sneered the ardent Munster fans who fanatically defended their coach. Yet they are just as bad, if not worse, when it is their own hero getting criticised.

Well the obvious difference was Kidney was picking a majority of Munster players despite Leinster being overwhelmingly the strongest province. The second most obvious issue with Kidney was we were losing a lot of games. Schmidt has probably the best winning ratio of an Irish coach ever. Selection is barely relevant if we continue to get good results.

Ireland have only lost 4 games in total under Schmidt at home. That is pretty remarkable. Two of those games were Schmidt first two games at home v NZ and Aus and the other two were Wales once in the 6 nations and NZ last year.

Under Kidney we were losing to the likes of Scotland at home. That said he should never be forgotten for the grand slam either.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

SecretFly wrote:But Joe has us in forth consistentlyish or sometimes even higher - yet poor Kidney eventually got us to 9th.

The Schmidt SS have their excuses.

Which is why Kidney got his own clock and Schmidt didn't. The criticism between the two is incomparable, really. My point is that any criticism that Schmidt receives is totally unwelcome by his worshippers. Those same hypocrites would never have let the Kidney worshippers away with the same. Same with Zebo vs Kearney actually. Two sides of the same coin.

I think you should set up the Schmidt clock Rory. You should set it permanently to 3:38 as a permanent reminder to you that dreams can happen under the right management.

"But...but...but it's different when we do it!!"

Collapse2005 wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

SecretFly wrote:But Joe has us in forth consistentlyish or sometimes even higher - yet poor Kidney eventually got us to 9th.

The Schmidt SS have their excuses.

Which is why Kidney got his own clock and Schmidt didn't. The criticism between the two is incomparable, really. My point is that any criticism that Schmidt receives is totally unwelcome by his worshippers. Those same hypocrites would never have let the Kidney worshippers away with the same. Same with Zebo vs Kearney actually. Two sides of the same coin.

I think you should set up the Schmidt clock Rory. You should set it permanently to 3:38 as a permanent reminder to you that dreams can happen under the right management.

Not sure why I would do that. I like Schmidt as the coach, but I also hope he will adjust our game plan now that we have players coming through with a bit of creativity and pace both in the backs and the forwards. And that he will pick those players...

But of course, this is an all or nothing game, isn't it? If you don't love Schmidt, you hate him. There's no in-between for zealots like you, is there?

What schidt brought up Kidney!!!  That's all we needed!

Okay, back to the game.  

Joe is in serious territory here.  These Fiji boys are going to feel they were slighted by having boys come to do a man's job of work against them.  They will boom and offload the bejasus out of these kids... and as I say, the Bench might resume some control but this might get ugly.  A win against South Africa and a loss against Fiji? - the opposition never consider the teamsheets really - it's Ireland losing and a blow to confidence levels.

The Clock has started on Joe.  It's 10million hours and ten seconds and counting down NOW!

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I forgot that this is the reason why we won't be seeing Adam Byrne in this fixture. I'm not even sure Schmidt is that much of a sadist:

http://www.the42.ie/fiji-team-nadolo-ireland-3701387-Nov2017/

The reason why Byrne isn't in the team is because he's not good enough (yet) He is behind Kearney in the pecking order for Leinster.

Interesting - where did you find that out? Byrne has started the most games on the wing for Leinster this season, has he not?

Kearney has been injured for most of the season. As soon as he was fully fit he was in ahead of Byrne...For example Glasgow away in the CC, where both McFadden and Kearney came in and Byrne was dropped from the squad altogether

Byrne is rated a lot higher on here than by actual Leinster fans.

What's the difference between a Leinster fan and an 'actual' Leinster fan?

Pete330v2 wrote:What's the difference between a Leinster fan and an 'actual' Leinster fan?

I meant a Leinster fan instead of Irish fans who support another province.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:What's the difference between a Leinster fan and an 'actual' Leinster fan?

I meant a Leinster fan instead of Irish fans who support another province.

Do you mean regular Irish fans or actual Irish fans?

I think there should be a Rory and Pete clock.

Pete330v2 wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:What's the difference between a Leinster fan and an 'actual' Leinster fan?

I meant a Leinster fan instead of Irish fans who support another province.

Do you mean regular Irish fans or actual Irish fans?

Quality banter mate

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:What's the difference between a Leinster fan and an 'actual' Leinster fan?

I meant a Leinster fan instead of Irish fans who support another province.

Do you mean regular Irish fans or actual Irish fans?

Quality banter mate

Sorry, I am in a facetious mood today. You should see what my colleagues have to put up with

SecretFly wrote:What schidt brought up Kidney!!!  That's all we needed!

Okay, back to the game.  

Joe is in serious territory here.  These Fiji boys are going to feel they were slighted by having boys come to do a man's job of work against them.  They will boom and offload the bejasus out of these kids... and as I say, the Bench might resume some control but this might get ugly.  A win against South Africa and a loss against Fiji? - the opposition never consider the teamsheets really - it's Ireland losing and a blow to confidence levels.

The Clock has started on Joe.  It's 10million hours and ten seconds and counting down NOW!

Can we round that down to 1,100 years. no point complaining about Joe for a while so.

Looking forward to this game, if youngsters keep their shape and don't try to do the spectular every time they touch the ball they should run Fiji for 60 minutes and then unleash the bench. (wow way more positive on Friday)

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I forgot that this is the reason why we won't be seeing Adam Byrne in this fixture. I'm not even sure Schmidt is that much of a sadist:

http://www.the42.ie/fiji-team-nadolo-ireland-3701387-Nov2017/

The reason why Byrne isn't in the team is because he's not good enough (yet) He is behind Kearney in the pecking order for Leinster.

Interesting - where did you find that out? Byrne has started the most games on the wing for Leinster this season, has he not?

Kearney has been injured for most of the season. As soon as he was fully fit he was in ahead of Byrne...For example Glasgow away in the CC, where both McFadden and Kearney came in and Byrne was dropped from the squad altogether

Byrne is rated a lot higher on here than by actual Leinster fans.

That's the only example and it doesn't exactly suggest that Dave Kearney is ahead of him. It was the first game after Byrne's dreadful time with Nadolo, nobody was surprised when he didn't feature the following week.

As for hyping him, I rate him as a very good prospect but with serious drawbacks in terms of his defensive positioning. He would benefit a lot under Schmidt's guidance. I'm sure that would match the general consensus with the Leinster fans.

Collapse2005 wrote:I think there should be a Rory and Pete clock.

Nah mate, I'll stick around. It's a lot of fun calling out fanboys and mocking them.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I forgot that this is the reason why we won't be seeing Adam Byrne in this fixture. I'm not even sure Schmidt is that much of a sadist:

http://www.the42.ie/fiji-team-nadolo-ireland-3701387-Nov2017/

The reason why Byrne isn't in the team is because he's not good enough (yet) He is behind Kearney in the pecking order for Leinster.

Interesting - where did you find that out? Byrne has started the most games on the wing for Leinster this season, has he not?

Kearney has been injured for most of the season. As soon as he was fully fit he was in ahead of Byrne...For example Glasgow away in the CC, where both McFadden and Kearney came in and Byrne was dropped from the squad altogether

Byrne is rated a lot higher on here than by actual Leinster fans.

That's the only example and it doesn't exactly suggest that Dave Kearney is ahead of him. It was the first game after Byrne's dreadful time with Nadolo, nobody was surprised when he didn't feature the following week.

As for hyping him, I rate him as a very good prospect but with serious drawbacks in terms of his defensive positioning. He would benefit a lot under Schmidt's guidance. I'm sure that would match the general consensus with the Leinster fans.

Its the only example because like I've said Kearney been injured up until around that point. Bynre didn't disgrace himself at all he got bumped a couple of times (who doesnt against Nandolo) but actually managed to show up Nandolo's defense a couple of times in during the game.

The drawbacks you've mentioned are exactly the reason why he is seen as being behind Kearney.  Glasgow away was the biggest game of the season and he wasn't trusted to be in the 23. If you dont rate Dave fair enough but jeez the guy can actually play rugby despite the consensus on here.

But if he has been injured, how can either of us know whether or not he would be ahead of Byrne for Leinster? They haven't been competing long enough for either of us to make a judgement. Unless you have some other information from the coaching staff?

Rory_Gallagher wrote:But if he has been injured, how can either of us know whether or not he would be ahead of Byrne for Leinster? They haven't been competing long enough for either of us to make a judgement. Unless you have some other information from the coaching staff?

Well if you're dropped out of the 23 for the most important game of the season so far, for a guy only back from injury, Daly and McFadden, then I think you can make a pretty good judgement that the guy isn't around first choice, no?

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:But if he has been injured, how can either of us know whether or not he would be ahead of Byrne for Leinster? They haven't been competing long enough for either of us to make a judgement. Unless you have some other information from the coaching staff?

Well if you're dropped out of the 23 for the most important game of the season so far, for a guy only back from injury, Daly and McFadden, then I think you can make a pretty good judgement that the guy isn't around first choice, no?

No. As you well know, player rotation is used by all coaches. Again, neither of us have any idea why Byrne was dropped, but I really do not see how the team selection for Glasgow is definitive proof that Dave Kearney is ahead of him.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:But if he has been injured, how can either of us know whether or not he would be ahead of Byrne for Leinster? They haven't been competing long enough for either of us to make a judgement. Unless you have some other information from the coaching staff?

Well if you're dropped out of the 23 for the most important game of the season so far, for a guy only back from injury, Daly and McFadden, then I think you can make a pretty good judgement that the guy isn't around first choice, no?

No. As you well know, player rotation is used by all coaches. Again, neither of us have any idea why Byrne was dropped, but I really do not see how the team selection for Glasgow is definitive proof that Dave Kearney is ahead of him.

Fair enough, from what I can see from last season and this; he is but I guess we won't find out for a while now with the emergence of Barry Daly and James Lowe here.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:But if he has been injured, how can either of us know whether or not he would be ahead of Byrne for Leinster? They haven't been competing long enough for either of us to make a judgement. Unless you have some other information from the coaching staff?

Byrne has been around for a long time. He was selected in a matchday squad by Joe Schmidt against the Ospreys in Joe's final months of being at Leinster. Dave is the better all round player. Byrne was a straight up liability on defense. It's improved since last season but not as good as Dave's. I don't think at Leinster that Byrne or ROL have shown enough to put them in front of Dave let alone with a green jersey. Mind you Conway didn't make it at Leinster and has turned into a very tasty player in Munster, well deserving of his Ireland appearances. Maybe Byrne could do with a change in scenery (not really many spaces to develop in the provinces, would likely mean going to an Osprey/Leicester/Exeter.... why do I pick those 3 clubs for him?).

OMG the lolz from BOD with uncle joe. It’s just Hilares (according to my offspring this is a correct translation). To my mind he is just a stupid little bollix which is why he is being contained on bt sports.

The other thing about kidney is that the team he picked at that time mainly contained Munster players because they were the better players same as why recently we have had mostly Leinster players.  So no difference there. Only real difference is joe hasn’t won a grand slam or beaten a sh team in competition (home or away).

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:OMG the lolz from BOD with uncle joe. It’s just Hilares (according to my offspring this is a correct translation). To my mind he is just a stupid little bollix which is why he is being contained on bt sports.

The other thing about kidney is that the team he picked at that time mainly contained Munster players because they were the better players same as why recently we have had mostly Leinster players.  So no difference there. Only real difference is joe hasn’t won a grand slam or beaten a sh team in competition (home or away).

Did he beat NZ though?

Rory_Gallagher wrote:But of course, this is an all or nothing game, isn't it? If you don't love Schmidt, you hate him. There's no in-between for zealots like you, is there?

Not exactly immune to the auld all or nothing game yourself Rory. Anyone you disagree with regarding this Irish team you call a Schmidt fanboy which is definitely a great point and not a way to shut down debate

Anyways, looking forward to what I hope is a cracking match with Carberry, Dillane and Sweetnum the lads I want big performances from as they could all feature next weekend.

The irony of Ulster fans giving out about provinvcial sycophancy given the annual campaigns to elect one of their backs as the best thing sliced bread.

14/15 - Olding
15/16 - McCloskey
16/17 - Jackson
17/18 - Stockdale

Some day Ulster will give us a world class back.

wolfball wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:But of course, this is an all or nothing game, isn't it? If you don't love Schmidt, you hate him. There's no in-between for zealots like you, is there?

Not exactly immune to the auld all or nothing game yourself Rory. Anyone you disagree with regarding this Irish team you call a Schmidt fanboy which is definitely a great point and not a way to shut down debate

Would you kindly find a direct quotation where this has happened? Aside from Collapse (Guns) could you please find where I have specifically labeled anyone else as a Schmidt fanboy? I have purposefully spoke in general terms. Let me know if that isn't the case.

Engine#4 wrote:The irony of Ulster fans giving out about provinvcial sycophancy given the annual campaigns to elect one of their backs as the best thing sliced bread.

14/15 - Olding
15/16 - McCloskey
16/17 - Jackson
17/18 - Stockdale

Some day Ulster will give us a world class back.

I'm not sure that you understand irony. But please find where an Ulster fan has claimed that any of the above are world class. We have said that they have lots of potential, and Stockdale indeed has natural talent, which the likes of Schmidt himself has recognised. Same for Olding and Jackson, their coaches have spoke of the bags of potential both have. I'm sure no other Irish fan has spoken of the potential of their untested players? James Ryan? Jordan Larmour? Who are they?

Your years are all messed up as well. Jackson came first as our great prospect. Followed by Olding, then McCloskey.

Certainties in life: Death, taxes and Rory whinging about Schmidts team selection every game.

Collapse2005 wrote:Certainties in life: Death, taxes and Rory whinging about Schmidts team selection every game.

Do you have some sort of alarm that goes off when someone speaks about Schmidt? You pop up every time without fail. The hilarity of all of this was that the whinging came from yourself (and others) after the South Africa game, despite everyone applauding it as a good win. The most critical person of Schmidt's game plan has been a Leinster fan, actually, so go and moan at him and stop boring me.

I like Schmidt, I actually like a lot of aspects of his style as well, but I also recognise problems with it which could be amended. What's your problem again?

Well played Daverage

Fiji are a bloody good side. With the Fijian Drua doing well in the NRC, they are building some much needed depth in the squad with Australia taking their players.

Well, I feel like I can't give my honest assessment of the game without being attacked by some of the zealots on here. Glad we got the win at least, would have been an embarrassing defeat.

Leinster fans: should Carbery get more starts at 10? Or would you rather keep him at 15?

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Leinster fans: should Carbery get more starts at 10? Or would you rather keep him at 15?

He's been brilliant at 15 so I think he should stay there for a while with Sexton in superb form. No reason he can't eventually move to 10 like Beudan Barret did.