Irish provinces NEWS and GOSSIP thread part 2

[profitius]

First topic message reminder :

Continued from this one. https://www.606v2.com/t63658-irish-provinces-news-gossip-thread-2016-17
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[eirebilly]

Earls

Still one of Irelands best finishes. Sorry to harp on about the ref but that deliberate knock down should have resulted in a yellow card for Racing regardless that Munster scored the try.

[eirebilly]

Fair play to Racing to get the win but I cant help that feel Munster missed a trick here. Very little between the sides but the LBP keeps Munster on top and I still feel they will get through.

Would have been nice to emulate Leinster and go through today though.

[marty2086]

Think Munster were unlucky to be on the wrong side of the ref and some of the penalties against them were just wrong, the penalty for playing the ball on the ground after the high ball was a ball both competed for and Munster came out with, then at the end Macheneud dummied at the base of the ruck and should have been a penalty to Munster

[doctor_grey]

So, what does this mean for Munster next weekend? Does Racing have something to play for? Which would make that match real intense. Or are they out regardless which might give Munster a bit of a break?

[the-goon]

Munster get 5 points next week, they prob get a home quarter. Racing get 5 they get a best 2nd.

[rodders]

Think Munster were unlucky to be on the wrong side of the ref and some of the penalties against them were just wrong, the penalty for playing the ball on the ground after the high ball was a ball both competed for and Munster came out with, then at the end Macheneud dummied at the base of the ruck and should have been a penalty to Munster

Yeah that ref was terrible. In fairness I think he was bad for both sides but Munster more so as the stop start nature of the game would have helped racing.

Munster would have taken that result before the game but both sides will feel they could have got more from it. If that pass from Earls to Murray have of stuck and they had nailed a few more place kicks then they could well have had 5 points and denied Racing anything.

As it was a it was a good performance from Munster, Earls was sensational in the second half  -Conway had a great game too. as did Keatley and Farrell.

Some good performance in the pack as well but unfortunately for Munster the best second row on the pitch was Donnacha Ryan. There is something not right about Kleyn, who was impressive also, speaking about playing for Ireland while the IRFU has arguably our best lock  in exile.    

All in a tremendous weekend from the Irish provinces, there could well be 3 in the QF. Leinster look like champions elect at the minute.

Individually the Irish selectors will have some headaches - Earls, Conway, Best, Henderson,  McGrath, Henshaw, Farrell, Cronin, Stockdale, Cooney really stood out to name a few and I hear O'Hallaran scored a great try for Connacht.

The Halcyon days have returned!

[SecretFly]

Hold on now.... Provincial form has never been a great measuring stick for Irish exploits in a Green shirt.

Things look promising ...but as always, it all depends on the Monsoon. Ahead...but only on wary Impulse power, not the full Warp speed enthusiasm yet.

[rodders]

Hold on now.... Provincial form has never been a great measuring stick for Irish exploits in a Green shirt..

That's because it was always based on the impact of top quality NIE's.

Now apart form Leinster being totally dependent on Nacewa, Fardy and Lowe to get them the W, it's the homegrown players who are driving the provinces to glory.

[SecretFly]

Hmm...I always thought there were a lot of Irish players always in all Irish teams.... and on those multiple winning Leinster and Munster teams? No?

But yes, BOD was Dublin4...which is a totally different country to the rest of us, so I get your point.

[rapidsnowman]

I think rodders means Simon Mason. Kicked Ulster to glory in '99.
He was really English, but we don't mention that in polite company.

Did I mention ulster were the first Irish side to win the HC?

[SecretFly]

I think rodders means Simon Mason. Kicked Ulster to glory in '99.
He was really English, but we don't mention that in polite company.

Did I mention ulster were the first Irish side to win the HC?

If they won it again this year, I'd be celebrating. Would love Rory to have one in his memory box. But yep, I know that Connacht is the only Province still waiting. That's some record for a small piece of rock in the North Atlantic.

[Collapse2005]

Hmm...I always thought there were a lot of Irish players always in all Irish teams.... and on those multiple winning Leinster and Munster teams?  No?  

But yes, BOD was Dublin4...which is a totally different country to the rest of us, so I get your point.

I don't think Bod has ever been from Dublin 4. Didn't he grow up in Clontarf (north side)? He lives in D6 now like a lot of the players. Blackrock college isn't even in D4.

[rodders]

Hmm...I always thought there were a lot of Irish players always in all Irish teams.... and on those multiple winning Leinster and Munster teams?  No?  

But yes, BOD was Dublin4...which is a totally different country to the rest of us, so I get your point.

I don't think Bod has ever been from Dublin 4.

Yeah but its where he bought his hot tub.

[SecretFly]

Hmm...I always thought there were a lot of Irish players always in all Irish teams.... and on those multiple winning Leinster and Munster teams?  No?  

But yes, BOD was Dublin4...which is a totally different country to the rest of us, so I get your point.

I don't think Bod has ever been from Dublin 4. Didn't he grow up in Clontarf (north side)? He lives in D6 now like a lot of the players. Blackrock college isn't even in D4.

His caricature comes from D4 then. I know all about D4 and where it is on a map... Leinster is a D4 team...and ladyboys to boot. Never kill tradition with facts.

[eirebilly]

Think Munster were unlucky to be on the wrong side of the ref and some of the penalties against them were just wrong, the penalty for playing the ball on the ground after the high ball was a ball both competed for and Munster came out with, then at the end Macheneud dummied at the base of the ruck and should have been a penalty to Munster

Yeah that ref was terrible. In fairness I think he was bad for both sides but Munster more so as the stop start nature of the game would have helped racing.

Munster would have taken that result before the game but both sides will feel they could have got more from it. If that pass from Earls to Murray have of stuck and they had nailed a few more place kicks then they could well have had 5 points and denied Racing anything.

I am still waiting for Pete to tell me that Munster would have won if they had Cooney playing at 9 instead of Murray as he would have nailed those kicks

[Pete330v2]

Munster would have won if they had Cooney playing at 9 instead of Murray as he would have nailed those kicks. Cooney for the Ireland shirt.

[eirebilly]

Good man yourself Pete

[Collapse2005]

Munster would have won if they had Cooney playing at 9 instead of Murray as he would have nailed those kicks. Cooney for the Ireland shirt.

Cooney is better now than Murray was when he was first picked for Ireland. He was garbage back then.

[SecretFly]

I concur. The return of a smart ass, gurrier type, infuriatingly nippy and niggly 9 to the Ireland set up.

The age of the rollicking giant 9 has come to an end.... the age of the get it out and over 9 has begun!

Precious.

[eirebilly]

Ah now, so Cooney is now comparably better than Murray. Shame he is only a year younger than Murray.

I wonder if he was born in Dublin, that could be the reason he is seen to be comparably better than Murray is.

[SecretFly]

It always helps...the genes lead a better kind of life in Dublin, so all the best scientists say.

[eirebilly]

You honestly could not make this up Fly

Born anywhere else and Cooney is just average

[SecretFly]

I know. It's a proven fact. It was on the Discovery Channel about two years ago. Genes fare better in city living than in rural idylls. It's something about the wired-in evolutionary impulses to succeed where others fail. Fascinating stuff. Dublin genes just are more competitive.

[Sin é]

There is a bit of discussion about the non-selection of Simon Zebo by Schmidt and the reasons why he is leaving. Anyway, someone put this 'history is repeating itself' link which was broadcast this day 30 years ago today: Dermot Morgan fans will particularly enjoy it:

You can pick Joe with the broken toe
But don’t pick Wardy.
You can pick Dean or any human being
But don’t pick Wardy.
Wardy always went too far
He became a superstar...

http://www.rte.ie/archives/2018/0110/932328-dermot-morgan-musical-rugby-opnion/

[SecretFly]

Simon says that he told Joe straight that he didn't like/or felt he was constrained by the systems at Ireland not giving him an opportunity to express himself.  And I'm wondering is that a reference to that famous meeting that has become legendary for maybe not happening at all but would be lovely if it did.... that alleged famous Deep Throat meeting/fight in an underground car park some years ago?

Anyway, Simon seems to be obsessed with...self.  Now that's no bad thing but in a team game, the rest of the players have to and had to obey team instructions as well - he was never alone in feeling the strategy wasn't right for him, yet he and the rest were happy to keep getting picked.  He wants to be remembered as a special stand-out player obviously and doesn't want the coaches getting too much in the way and cramping his style.  Well, I hope he gets some of what he wants now in his new adventure.... though not at the expense of any of the Provinces mind you

[Geen sport voor watjes]

All dubs are gurriers it doesn’t matter whether their postcode is odd or even. Cooney looks like he would start a fight with himself. Also if you look at BOD and ignore the whiney Rock/Tarf tone his head is too big and he has bug eyes (it’s clearly the heroin). As for sexton, Leavy and Conan...on early release from the Joy clearly

[rodders]

Think Munster were unlucky to be on the wrong side of the ref and some of the penalties against them were just wrong, the penalty for playing the ball on the ground after the high ball was a ball both competed for and Munster came out with, then at the end Macheneud dummied at the base of the ruck and should have been a penalty to Munster

Yeah that ref was terrible. In fairness I think he was bad for both sides but Munster more so as the stop start nature of the game would have helped racing.

Munster would have taken that result before the game but both sides will feel they could have got more from it. If that pass from Earls to Murray have of stuck and they had nailed a few more place kicks then they could well have had 5 points and denied Racing anything.

I am still waiting for Pete to tell me that Munster would have won if they had Cooney playing at 9 instead of Murray as he would have nailed those kicks

He'd have caught that pass from Earls too and got you the 4 try bonus

[geoff999rugby]

Cooney looks like he would start a fight with himself.

Good we need a bit of the mongrel in the Ulster team.
Stockdale is not adverse to a wind up either, or Henderson.

Too many nice people in the Ulster team

[marty2086]

Cooney looks like he would start a fight with himself.

Good we need a bit of the mongrel in the Ulster team.
Stockdale is not adverse to a wind up either, or Henderson.

Too many nice people in the Ulster team

Timoney too looks to have an edge to him

[geoff999rugby]

He does indeed

In terms of what he has achieved compared to where he was I'd say he is the Most Improved Player
even above Stockdale.
Black the biggest surprise - gone from surplus to requirements to best LH, albeit in large part because of the ineptness of others

[marty2086]

Have to say I scoffed at someone earlier in the season who said Black was our best scrummager, not that he was bad I just didn't see him as the best but he has acquitted himself well and one of the few who have progressed under the current coaching setup

[Pot Hale]

He does indeed

In terms of what he has achieved compared to where he was I'd say he is the Most Improved Player
even above Stockdale.
Black the biggest surprise - gone from surplus to requirements to best LH, albeit in large part because of the ineptness of others

Is that the faintest of faint chink of light flickering briefly at the end of your Ulster tunnel, Geoff?

[Pete330v2]

Cooney is Ulster's Irish player of the season, he has kept the high standard that he set early in the season despite the doubters and is surely heading for more appearances in an Irish shirt. I still think Joe will stick with Marmion for the 6 nations but you never know. I'd rather keep him at Ulster mind you, we need him if we're to keep our faltering season afloat. Timoney too has surpassed everything expected of him, I think he has it all to play for but with the embarrassment of riches Ireland have in the backrow he may find it hard enough to get on Joe's squad. Once again, I'll be selfish and greedy, I want him to remain at Ulster

[geoff999rugby]

He does indeed

In terms of what he has achieved compared to where he was I'd say he is the Most Improved Player
even above Stockdale.
Black the biggest surprise - gone from surplus to requirements to best LH, albeit in large part because of the ineptness of others

Is that the faintest of faint chink of light flickering briefly at the end of your Ulster tunnel, Geoff?

There is some. We have our best academy in a decade, mainly in positions we have been weak (Jackson and Hendo apart) (4 to 10), and
a bloke in charge who knows how to get the best out of them (Willie Anderson).

If we sorted out the mess at the top who knows

[marty2086]

Cooney is Ulster's Irish player of the season, he has kept the high standard that he set early in the season despite the doubters and is surely heading for more appearances in an Irish shirt. I still think Joe will stick with Marmion for the 6 nations but you never know. I'd rather keep him at Ulster mind you, we need him if we're to keep our faltering season afloat. Timoney too has surpassed everything expected of him, I think he has it all to play for but with the embarrassment of riches Ireland have in the backrow he may find it hard enough to get on Joe's squad. Once again, I'll be selfish and greedy, I want him to remain at Ulster

After seeing Murray kicking for Munster at the weekend, I wonder if that was a directive from Joe to give a second kicking option should Sexton get injured

[geoff999rugby]

Alternatively he could just select Cooney

[rodders]

Cooney is Ulster's Irish player of the season, he has kept the high standard that he set early in the season despite the doubters and is surely heading for more appearances in an Irish shirt. I still think Joe will stick with Marmion for the 6 nations but you never know. I'd rather keep him at Ulster mind you, we need him if we're to keep our faltering season afloat. Timoney too has surpassed everything expected of him, I think he has it all to play for but with the embarrassment of riches Ireland have in the backrow he may find it hard enough to get on Joe's squad. Once again, I'll be selfish and greedy, I want him to remain at Ulster

After seeing Murray kicking for Munster at the weekend, I wonder if that was a directive from Joe to give a second kicking option should Sexton get injured

Don't think so, Murray just has a greater range than Keatley -Munster did the same versus the Tigers before Christmas.

Cooney's kicking game is definitely a valuable asset but have to say Luke McGrath is probably edging it as Murray's back up at the minute.

The competition at 9 is fierce, I'd have both Cooney and McGrath ahead of Marmion to be honest.

[eirebilly]

The competition at 9 is fierce, I'd have both Cooney and McGrath ahead of Marmion to be honest.

That's a big call, Marmion has proven himself Internationally.

Not saying that Cooney or McGrath do not deserve a chance to prove themselves but I do wonder if Marmion was playing in bigger European games, he would not be more watched.

On form I would say that Cooney would be ahead of McGrath though.

[Pete330v2]

The competition at 9 is fierce, I'd have both Cooney and McGrath ahead of Marmion to be honest.

That's a big call, Marmion has proven himself Internationally.

Not saying that Cooney or McGrath do not deserve a chance to prove themselves but I do wonder if Marmion was playing in bigger European games, he would not be more watched.

On form I would say that Cooney would be ahead of McGrath though.

I think that's what Joe will take more notice of to be honest. He does stick to tried and tested so I really do think this would be a year too soon.

[SecretFly]

Cooney is Ulster's Irish player of the season, he has kept the high standard that he set early in the season despite the doubters and is surely heading for more appearances in an Irish shirt. I still think Joe will stick with Marmion for the 6 nations but you never know. I'd rather keep him at Ulster mind you, we need him if we're to keep our faltering season afloat. Timoney too has surpassed everything expected of him, I think he has it all to play for but with the embarrassment of riches Ireland have in the backrow he may find it hard enough to get on Joe's squad. Once again, I'll be selfish and greedy, I want him to remain at Ulster

After seeing Murray kicking for Munster at the weekend, I wonder if that was a directive from Joe to give a second kicking option should Sexton get injured

If that is true, he's coming to that one very very late..... as I've always kinda hinted that because of Sexton's temperament, if he starts misfiring in a game, it can go on and on. And even if we're on top in play terms, those untaken place kicks can be lethal when it comes to the final scoreline. I think Joe and Ireland should always be encouraging more player to practice seriously their kicking and having more than one potential kicker in the side.... not just for Sexton injuries but for those games when his mind just can't seem to settle enough to be assured in his kicking duties.

[marty2086]

If Joe sees Carberry as next in line at 10 and he's not taking kicks in games then that could be a problem, I'm only guessing it could well be that Van Graan sees it as a weapon. I've always thought Leinster and Ireland should have used Kearney for that kind of thing

[SecretFly]

If Joe sees Carberry as next in line at 10 and he's not taking kicks in games then that could be a problem, I'm only guessing it could well be that Van Graan sees it as a weapon. I've always thought Leinster and Ireland should have used Kearney for that kind of thing

He had a wonderful boot in his day.  Probably a bit rusty now and not so powerful.  But anyway, I absolutely detest this ongoing notion in rugby circles that the 10 MUST be the place kicker.  It's as if it's the tradition rather than best player for the job that counts.  If you have a wonderful playing 10, that has his team purring in all other facets of the game but that sometimes falters on that one most important job of nailing your kicks comfortably and with ultra confidence, then, if I were coach, I wouldn't hesitate for a moment in leaving the 10 there and trying to find a few more candidates for the kicking duty within the team ...afterall, Halfpenny has made a career of coming from 15 to do the job.

If there are better natural kickers on a team (between the posters) - and you only find that out by testing them - then choose them.

[carpet baboon]

McFadden was a quality goal kicker in his youth

[Collapse2005]

Ah now, so Cooney is now comparably better than Murray. Shame he is only a year younger than Murray.

I wonder if he was born in Dublin, that could be the reason he is seen to be comparably better than Murray is.

Think Murray did previously benefit from being under Kidney's wing himself.

[Sin é]

Ah now, so Cooney is now comparably better than Murray. Shame he is only a year younger than Murray.

I wonder if he was born in Dublin, that could be the reason he is seen to be comparably better than Murray is.

Think Murray did previously benefit from being under Kidney's wing himself.

U20s, and Murray was playing second fiddle to Matt Healy!

Murray benefitted because he had ROG telling him what to do in the early days. Eoin Reddan benefitted because he was able to hold Sexton's hand in the beginning.

[Sin é]

What I actually came to post - impressive witch hunt of Gerhard Grobler going on in the Irish media at the moment.

[Geen sport voor watjes]

Yes. It’s starting to reach a certain level of hysteria reserved only for a certain type of criminal.

[Engine#4]

How is it a 'witch hunt'? He did it.

[SecretFly]

There is a level of hysteria yes,
....the po-faced everyone-has-to-be-pure-as-snow-and-have-said-nothing-bad-on-their-facebook-account media reactions is to be expected in this age when social media driven snowkflake-ism has reached epidemic proportions throughout all levels of life....

.......then on the other hand, should Grobler expect a red carpet and a bundle of cheek kisses either?  He did what he did and Ben Johnson never recovered any reputation and neither did Michelle De Brun.  He has been given the chance to play on and forge a new reputation in the sport he was banned from.  He's lucky, although he won't think he's too lucky this week.

So a bit of both...damn those that want to completely damn a player to oblivion because he made a serious error of judgement in a pressurised career - AND GOT CAUGHT.  Give him his second chance.  Others are playing that haven't been caught... yet.
But  to hell with those that might think it was no big deal too.  It's still a big deal and players are still getting away with iffy stuff to this day....................... and as I always do on this topic, I'll mention one ICONIC player, from a certain iconic Nation, that had a very illustrious career indeed all over the place.  This guy openly talked with the loaded up rasp of a loaded up American Wrestler and looked like one too. When you're doing certain stuff, the voice can sometimes be a real give away - a fingerprint left on the window.  

But..... well, the world of journalism never wanted to rock no boats there.

[formerly known as Sam]

It's a poorly kept secret that more rugby players take performance enhancing drugs than are caught. Around the semi-pro arena it's rife as players try to make the step up.

Certainly not the first Bok second row to make the error in his younger days and won't be the last. You can argue the laws should be changed but until they are he's served his time and presumably learnt his lesson.

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