Irish provinces NEWS and GOSSIP thread part 2

[profitius]

First topic message reminder :

Continued from this one. https://www.606v2.com/t63658-irish-provinces-news-gossip-thread-2016-17
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[Pot Hale]

Larmour was excellent for Ireland school boys and for St Andrews in schools rugby. He has been on the radar for some time now due to his under age performances. He is also a very good hockey player.

He has already spent time in Ireland camps having been personally invited by Schmidt.

There are some really good young backs coming through, Sweetnam, Larmour, Carbery and Stockdale are three of the most exciting.

You obviously went to the same school as me where attention to detail in Maths was optional...

[brennomac]

Muldoon is the form 8. But nobody looks at him cos he is too old. The best compliment I can give him is that he is very like Anthony Foley in how he plays the game.

Muldoon is going to be playing against us on Jan 1 and will be up to all of his tricks, but God I love the guy, he's an absolute inspiration for Connacht. Mightn't have been totally kosher but the way he bullshitted that ref in the wasps game in the ERC to allow a kick to the corner after the 80 minutes was a joy (unless you're a wasps fan). When Mul eventually hangs up his boots, a career in forwards coaching surely follows

[Pot Hale]

Should the IRFU create a national academy structure rather than have four provincial ones? It would link in with the four provinces but players would be centralized in a national pool and perhaps create a better spread of talent coming through across the four. It might help develop players for use at school level, and age-grade teams for 18/19/20 year olds. It could help with development of women’s rugby and sevens.

[Sin é]

Should the IRFU create a national academy structure rather than have four provincial ones?  It would link in with the four provinces but players would be centralized in a national pool and perhaps create a better spread of talent coming through across the four.  It might help develop players for use at school level, and age-grade teams for 18/19/20 year olds.  It could help with development of women’s rugby and sevens.  

There used to be a national academy initially and it didn't work. I think it could create problems in trying to hold onto players in the Provinces. Many of the players will stay in Ireland because they grew up wanting to play for their Province - i.e., Peter O'Mahoney grew up wanting to play for Munster. If he ended up playing for Ulster because they needed backrows, how long would he be able to resist the alure of moving abroad for the big money.

The Provinces are fairly unique in this aspect of loyalty - only other club I see it at is the Crusaders whose players seem to be mainly one club players (maybe finishing off their careers in Japan or Europe). Look at the Welsh clubs - their players move around a lot and hasn't helped with developing each club's identity.

[eirebilly]

Sin é,

I remember 3 years ago getting very upset about JJ leaving Munster. I understood he was going to leave but I really thought more should have been done to keep him in Ireland. For me, him going to Connacht to form a partnership with Marmion was the best option. Allowing him to go to Saints stumped his progress in my opinion.

Now he is back at Munster, he is behind Bleyendaal and Keatley so is again not being utilised properly. Is he not better moving to Ulster (where they have a shortage) to further his career? He left Ireland to get more game time but he would surely get more game time at Ulster right now.

Options like this (and there are many) should be considered to not only help player development but Ireland strength in depth.

[Sin é]

Sin é,

I remember 3 years ago getting very upset about JJ leaving Munster. I understood he was going to leave but I really thought more should have been done to keep him in Ireland. For me, him going to Connacht to form a partnership with Marmion was the best option. Allowing him to go to Saints stumped his progress in my opinion.

Now he is back at Munster, he is behind Bleyendaal and Keatley so is again not being utilised properly. Is he not better moving to Ulster (where they have a shortage) to further his career? He left Ireland to get more game time but he would surely get more game time at Ulster right now.

Options like this (and there are many) should be considered to not only help player development but Ireland strength in depth.

\

JJ left because he was offered a wad of money and which meant he could come back to Munster after his 2 year stint & 400K (which is exactly what happened). If he had gone to Connacht, he probably wouldn't get the opportunity to come back to Munster. JJ is needed in Munster now because of injuries to Tyler. If he can't get past Keatley, he won't be much use to Ireland.

Zebo will be back in 2 years time to Munster (or whenever his contract with Racing is up). If he had gone through a national academy system, he probably wouldn't have the bond he has with Munster.

[eirebilly]

3 years ago, JJ was one of the hottest prospects in Ireland. More should have been done to keep him, regardless of the money offered. I do honestly feel he regressed whilst he was at the Saints.

He has come back to Munster as 3rd choice 10 and utility back. He is not going to get ahead of Keatley right now as Keatley is playing well, I agree but with more game time (maybe at Ulster) he will realise that potential he had again.

Munster do not really need him as Scannell is a more than capable 10 in his own right.

I think you put too much emphasis on the 'Munster through and through' players. Yes there are a few (POM prime example) but there are players who are not. JJ left for money and game time.

I honestly feel he would be well suited to go to Ulster.

[Sin é]

Awful news, but David Nicofora's 21 daughter died just before Christmas in Australia. May she rest in peace

[rodders]

Gee that is terrible.

Some great quality on show over the last few weeks in the interpros, unfortunately very little of it by Ulster.

Larmour is a real star, he reminds me of Christian Cullen the way he can accelerate and step off both feet, he made a complete mug out of Stockdale at the weekend. It's early days but he looks something special at a time when Ireland have incredible talent in the backs.

Leinster and Connacht are playing exceptional rugby at the minute, with Munster not too far behind. Ulster are embarrassing right now but from an Irish perspective there are a lot of things to be excited about.

[Collapse2005]

Anyone know who Ulster have signed at 10?

I have heard Stephen Donald and Giteau mentioned.

[rodders]

It's Stephen Giteau.

[Collapse2005]

Ha rodders

[carpet baboon]

I want it to be Giteau. But think it will be Donald
In my dreams it on Lima Sapoanga*

[Sin é]

Well, it looks like the Saffers are getting their own back for Munster taking all their players. They have now recruited the Munster head of S&C, Aled Walters

Thats three coaching staff in the last year gone to the Boks.

[Pot Hale]

Well, it looks like the Saffers are getting their own back for Munster taking all their players. They have now recruited the Munster head of S&C, Aled Walters

Thats three coaching staff in the last year gone to the Boks.

All part of the de-Safferisation programme.  Even though he’s Welsh.  Soon there’ll only be Stander, Cloete, Kleyn, Taute, Grobler left.....

[geoff999rugby]

I wish the Saffers would raid Ulster and take back the inadequates we have

vDM, Diack, Deysel and to brutal honest the permanent sick note Coetzee

We had a rich vain with Muller and his recommendations - Pienaer, Wannenburg and Terblanche
but other than that we have signed some really duff Saffers

[Collapse2005]

I see Stephen Donald is going to be announced by Ulster shortly. Good signing?

I think its decent.

[geoff999rugby]

Given where we are and the requirement 4 months as good as we could expect

The long term signings in the summer will be the big ones

[thebandwagonsociety]

When they were looking and got Christian in for the short period were they working to the expectation that PJ would be through his case as innocent and be able to bring him back into the fold? Or is that still the expectation.

Stephen Donald, how much extra cash has he managed to get by being the last available outhalf to come off a bench and get the ball over the bar in the rwc final.

[Collapse2005]

When they were looking and got Christian in for the short period were they working to the expectation that PJ would be through his case as innocent and be able to bring him back into the fold? Or is that still the expectation.

Stephen Donald, how much extra cash has he managed to get by being the last available outhalf to come off a bench and get the ball over the bar in the rwc final.

I reckon Donald is better than that. He got 25 caps for the ABs after all. He was the fall guy for a last minute loss v Australia in HK and his rep scarcely recovered. He isn't bad though.

[Sin é]

We've got another Saffer

18 year old 118Kg TH prop into the Munster Academy called Keynan Knox.

http://www.the42.ie/munster-keynan-knox-academy-tighthead-3788843-Jan2018/

[SecretFly]

We've got another Saffer

18 year old 118Kg TH prop into the Munster Academy called  Keynan Knox.

http://www.the42.ie/munster-keynan-knox-academy-tighthead-3788843-Jan2018/

Yep. The Northern Territories Capital of South Africa has officially moved from Belfast to Limerick. I wonder how Saffers pronounce Fush and chups....

[carpet baboon]

Just read that Felix jones turned down a job with SA.

[geoff999rugby]

What are the Leinster and Munster NIQ set up looking like for next year

Ulster have Coetzee, vDM and Deysel
All 3 should be under reviewed because not one of the players is both fit and good enough

[Collapse2005]

Just read that Felix jones turned down a job with SA.

Madness, why would you turn a job with the Boks down in favour of staying in Munster.

[geoff999rugby]

Limerick or Cape Town
Wind/showers or Sunshine

Decisions, decisions !

[SecretFly]

Limerick or Cape Town
Wind/showers or Sunshine

Decisions, decisions !

Funny that so many Saffers over the years have easily chosen the wind/showers.  I guess 'exotic' is in the eye of the beholder.  What lovely warm white sand and sun is to us, hard, biting ice winds and unending rain is to them.

Did someone say: "It's money wot done it!"?   Well I never!

[Collapse2005]

The Saffers in Ulster love the religious elements to living in Ulster. Its like a Christian Disneyland for them.

Ruan Piennar for example is the founder of a Bible study group for rugby players in South Africa.

He is quoted as having said things like:

“I have always believed, with my Christianity, that there’s so much more to life than rugby,” and “Being here gives me an enormous sense of purpose. I am not just here for rugby, I’m here to touch lives.”

http://www.eden.co.uk/blog/sport/five-top-players-on-gods-rugby-squad-p11248

[geoff999rugby]

Well of the current crop I'd prefer that some were lesser Christians and better rugby players
By and large a mediocre bunch, of Saffer born players  

NIQ - Coetzee, Deysel, Van De Merwe

IQ - Diack, Herbst, Herron, Ludik

Given Coetzee is a permanent sick note the rest don't exactly get the excitement juices going.
Ludik and Herbst the only ones worth keeping

[Sin é]

What are the Leinster and Munster NIQ set up looking like for next year

Ulster have Coetzee, vDM and Deysel
All 3 should be under reviewed because not one of the players is both fit and good enough

I think Munster have only one NIQ - Jaco Taute. (Player who can't be capped as he has been capped for SA).

PS - Rassie seemingly tried to recruit Felix Jones as Skills Coach for the Boks, but he is staying with Munster. Seemingly SA is going to play a game against Munster.

[marty2086]

What are the Leinster and Munster NIQ set up looking like for next year

Ulster have Coetzee, vDM and Deysel
All 3 should be under reviewed because not one of the players is both fit and good enough

I think Munster have only one NIQ - Jaco Taute. (Player who can't be capped as he has been capped for SA).

PS - Rassie seemingly tried to recruit Felix Jones as Skills Coach for the Boks, but he is staying with Munster. Seemingly SA is going to play a game against Munster.

Cloete, Kleyn and Marshall are all NIQ too, they may be IQ one day but aren't next season

[Pete330v2]

What are the Leinster and Munster NIQ set up looking like for next year

Ulster have Coetzee, vDM and Deysel
All 3 should be under reviewed because not one of the players is both fit and good enough

I think Munster have only one NIQ - Jaco Taute. (Player who can't be capped as he has been capped for SA).

PS - Rassie seemingly tried to recruit Felix Jones as Skills Coach for the Boks, but he is staying with Munster. Seemingly SA is going to play a game against Munster.

Cloete, Kleyn and Marshall are all NIQ too, they may be IQ one day but aren't next season

As you're only allowed one project then only one of them can or are Munster allowed 3 projects?

[Sin é]

What are the Leinster and Munster NIQ set up looking like for next year

Ulster have Coetzee, vDM and Deysel
All 3 should be under reviewed because not one of the players is both fit and good enough

I think Munster have only one NIQ - Jaco Taute. (Player who can't be capped as he has been capped for SA).

PS - Rassie seemingly tried to recruit Felix Jones as Skills Coach for the Boks, but he is staying with Munster. Seemingly SA is going to play a game against Munster.

Cloete, Kleyn and Marshall are all NIQ too, they may be IQ one day but aren't next season

Thats why I said that Jaco is the only one who has been capped by another country, so technically everyone is a project in Munster!

[Sin é]

What are the Leinster and Munster NIQ set up looking like for next year

Ulster have Coetzee, vDM and Deysel
All 3 should be under reviewed because not one of the players is both fit and good enough

I think Munster have only one NIQ - Jaco Taute. (Player who can't be capped as he has been capped for SA).

PS - Rassie seemingly tried to recruit Felix Jones as Skills Coach for the Boks, but he is staying with Munster. Seemingly SA is going to play a game against Munster.

Cloete, Kleyn and Marshall are all NIQ too, they may be IQ one day but aren't next season

As you're only allowed one project then only one of them can or are Munster allowed 3 projects?

I'd say it was grab all you can and get them resident in Ireland before the 3 year residency rule changes to 5.

[SecretFly]

When does that change btw?

At what point (year or month) does an incoming player change from the three year ruling to the five year? I'm not up to date on the particulars of that one.

[Pot Hale]

We've got another Saffer

18 year old 118Kg TH prop into the Munster Academy called  Keynan Knox.

http://www.the42.ie/munster-keynan-knox-academy-tighthead-3788843-Jan2018/

It seems to be Two young SA players into Munster Academy - Kenyan Knox and Matt Moore - what’s going on there?

Surely Irish rugby does not need to be bringing in foreign-born players this young? These guys arrived late 2017 so they’ll meet the ‘old’ 3-year residency requirement.

[geoff999rugby]

When does that change btw?

At what point (year or month) does an incoming player change from the three year ruling to the five year?  I'm not up to date on the particulars of that one.

It already has

1st January 2018

[geoff999rugby]

We've got another Saffer

18 year old 118Kg TH prop into the Munster Academy called  Keynan Knox.

http://www.the42.ie/munster-keynan-knox-academy-tighthead-3788843-Jan2018/

It seems to be Two young SA players into Munster Academy - Kenyan Knox and Matt Moore - what’s going on there?

Surely Irish rugby does not need to be bringing in foreign-born players this young?  These guys arrived late 2017 so they’ll meet the ‘old’ 3-year residency requirement.  

You've answered your own question - these players have been brought in so young in order to avoid a 5 year residency requirement

[geoff999rugby]

So what are Leinster looking like for NIE and NIQ for 17/18

[SecretFly]

When does that change btw?

At what point (year or month) does an incoming player change from the three year ruling to the five year?  I'm not up to date on the particulars of that one.

It already has

1st January 2018

So any new bloods from now on will automatically now be on 5 years?  I seem to have thought it might have been a summer start thing (end of season stuff).  
So anyway, the five years starting point seems to be shifted to the academies so?

When things settle down, that won't go down so well at all.... not with the young Irish hopefuls, not with us, not with the media and not when the risks of taking/buying in academy players proves at least sometimes that it hasn't worked and the players chosen aren't good enough by the time their five year point is reached.  

Five years is obviously much more of a gamble on quality and if the system keeps shooting blanks, then it'll be tough to keep sanctioning the casino's licence.

[geoff999rugby]

Starts 1st January 2020 when, supposedly, the whole of the world rugby calendar has been sorted out
post the WC.
You sign 31st December 2017 - 3 years
You sign 1st January 2018 - 5 years

Remember it may be our end of season but it is in the middle of the SH season.

Having just posted that I am doubting myself but given it came in this year I suppose they have allowed any signings in 2017 dispensation to be 3 not 5 years even though
they become eligible after the 1st January 2020 start date

[eirebilly]

On to Munster now after Leinster's very impressive win over Glasgow.

Racing will be up for this and will be very difficult at home. Munster must gain parity in the set pieces (especially the line out) in order to compete with them I feel.

[SecretFly]

Zebo has to blast 'em into Schmidtereens to show them what they are getting. Over to you Simon.

[eirebilly]

Munster being pinged for offside twice and yet Racing are allowed to enter at the side...

Very strong side and already have their first try, could be a long day for Munster.

[eirebilly]

Is it just me or are Munster getting pinged off the field so far?

I am not sure that their discipline has been that bad and the ref cannot seemingly see Racing at all...

[SecretFly]

One is home and one is away? Against away is where the penalties stray?

Blimey! Poetry!

[eirebilly]

Munster win a penalty

[eirebilly]

Murray makes a half break, Cloete taken out off the ball. Result, Murray isolated and penalty to Racing...

[eirebilly]

Oooh Zebo, that was a dive. Don't like to see that.

[eirebilly]

Stupid from POM, the ref is obviously a homer so don't back chat. Unfair as the decision may be, back chatting is not going to change his mind.

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