Irish provinces NEWS and GOSSIP thread part 2

[profitius]

First topic message reminder :

Continued from this one. https://www.606v2.com/t63658-irish-provinces-news-gossip-thread-2016-17
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[Collapse2005]

They rejected the terms of their new contracts

[Pot Hale]

Jaysus. Fla’ n Jonesy on the rubbish heap already.

Or does Jones think the door is still open for him with Erasmus coaching. That’d be a turnip for the Boks...

[Collapse2005]

Suspicious use of the word turnip

[Maine man]

Out of curiosity how much does a coach earn? You hear what people think players are paid but never coaches.

[SecretFly]

Given what Van Grann was saying a few weeks ago, I think he's flexing some muscle now and this is an optics story for two Munster stalwarts. I think they were offered a contract they had to refuse but they get to say they rejected something rather than they were....well, sacked.
But that's only my opinion of course.

[Pot Hale]

Suspicious use of the word turnip

Just a play on ‘turn-up for the books’.

[Pete330v2]

Bill Johnson to Ulster.
Is he any use, only seen fleeting glimpses and was well impressed.

[Collapse2005]

Suspicious use of the word turnip

Just a play on ‘turn-up for the books’.

Creative

[eirebilly]

Fla will be a massive loss to Munster. He has been an excellent forwards coach. Under him, Munster have developed some excellent forwards, especially 2's.

Felix, love the lad to his bones and I feel he is on the receiving end of some poor tactical approaches to games rather than his skill as a backs coach.

Do not want to see either leave.

[Geen sport voor watjes]

Fla. good. Pity he is leaving. Felix. Our back play has been turgid/non existent/ no variation for a number of years. Time for a change.

It’s always sad to see people move on but we haven’t moved on especially in the last couple of years. JVG should at least be allowed his own choices/mistakes

[SecretFly]

So...would madman Edwards be tempted to a team that might sing the odd rebel song if they were celebrating a win?

[Collapse2005]

I cringe when you see the clips of Munster players singing in the dressing rooms after a win. Its so hokey.

[SecretFly]

Jesus...it's just a game, Guns. The Irish like to sing....badly.... it's what we do well.

[profitius]

Bill Johnson to Ulster.
Is he any use, only seen fleeting glimpses and was well impressed.

Superb player. Excellent kicker from hand or from the tee, got great hands too and a good brain. I'm not happy that Bleyendaal and Hanrahan are ahead of him.


Negatives are his injury record and he isn't very big.
He's played little professional rugby so might need time to adjust but the Ulster fans will be happy with him once he settles in.

[Collapse2005]

Jesus...it's just a game, Guns.  The Irish like to sing....badly.... it's what we do well.

Yes I agree its just a game.

[Collapse2005]

Glad to see Lowe and Cronin are going to start on Saturday. Good team selection.

[SecretFly]

It'll have to be a perpetual motion game. High pace and then hope for high accuracy.

BIG challenge.

[Collapse2005]

Yeah I have a sneeking suspicion that it will be Sarries day given that some of their players got the better of the core of the Ireland team in the 6 nations.

[SecretFly]

Yeah I have a sneeking suspicion that it will be Sarries day given that some of their players got the better of the core of the Ireland team in the 6 nations.

There is certainly that chance of history repeating itself quickly. But also this is a opportunity for Leinster to show that an up-paced, less pedestrian Ireland in that first game might have changed the fabric of the 6N.

Leinster won't I hope be as passive/toothless as Ireland were.

[Collapse2005]

Leinster have a chance to become the most decorated European side ever and unquestionably the greatest side in European rugby history. Nice carrot.

[Geen sport voor watjes]

Leinster showed signs in the semi that they are back to their best ( or nearly there). They play a similar brand of rugby to Saracens and are better coached than Ireland if the play close to their best they will win.

[RDW]

Green sport I've removed your post - if you haven't seen my warning post on here best take a look

https://www.606v2.com/t68373-the-future-of-the-rugby-forum

[Collapse2005]

If Leinster win I think Cullens record of two titles as coach and 3 as player will probably not be broken for a long time.

[Collapse2005]

Nice video from the 1014 guys on Rog and Robertson

https://youtu.be/IMmOOzn9R-k

[Pot Hale]

Has Matt More, one of the young SA kids brought in by Munster been let go/left the province. I don’t see him listed in their squad.

[mikey_dragon]

Interesting story. The highly rated winger James McCarthy - former Wales u18, Munster academy, and grand slam winner with Ireland u20 has opted to return home and is believed to have decided that his rugby future is with Wales.

Very good attacker but looks a little bit on the skinny side for professional rugby.

I’m not sure what the reason is for the U-turn unless he couldn’t settle down in Ireland? In the Munster academy and Ireland U20s would suggest that he’s been noticed. If he’s back here looking for a contract I suppose there’d be pressure on him to bulk up.


In others news doing the rounds, Jerry Flannery to Dragons.

[profitius]

Has Matt More, one of the young SA kids brought in by Munster been let go/left the province.  I don’t see him listed in their squad.

He's gone back to SA.


There's been a big trimming of the squad by Munster. Gone are: Dave O'Callaghan, Ronan O'Mahony, Hart, Williams, Keatley, Taute, Stephen Fitzgerald, Sherry and Johnston. Mathewson will probably be leaving in October.

Only Nick McCarthy has signed and I think they said that's it. All the focus over the summer will be replacing the coaches. Some top quality coaches are badly needed.

[geoff999rugby]

Interesting not least because there is a rumour Ulster are looking for a SH squad filler - could it be Williams?

Hart has gone to Biarritz

[Kingshu]

For SH would like the Harliquins IQ guy. Seams a good prospect

[Don Alfonso]

Interesting not least because there is a rumour Ulster are looking for a SH squad filler - could it be Williams?

Hart has gone to Biarritz

Please God no. Older and not as good as Shanahan.

[Pete330v2]

For SH would like the Harliquins IQ guy. Seams a good prospect

Niall Saunders?
Quin's academy SH

[geoff999rugby]

I am not keen on Williams either - just throwing it out there as a name.

The Quins guy would be a real coup.
I joked about us snatching him away from them a few months ago.
From what little I have seen he could be the real deal

[Kingshu]

Yep Saunders seams a good talent, but signed a new contract in Feb, so can rule that one out.

Maybe Mathewson when he leaves Munster in Oct, after all they had him over a season as cover maybe we can get him for most of next season as cover?

[geoff999rugby]

It wont be Mathewson we can only sign an IQ SH

We are not Munster you know- unlike them we are restricted to 3 NIQ

[Kingshu]

For SH cover a certain Mr Pienaar is out of contact I believe, surely even the IRFU would allow him one last year at Ulster durning a WC year, after all Munster had Mathewson last year so a NIQ at SH may be permissible. We are told its not set at 3niq and each case is judged on its merits, the NIQ who has added and brought into the Province the most must have a lot of merit. At 35 will be more cover for 9/10 not sure if would be a starting 9 ahead of Cooney nowadays.

[geoff999rugby]

Ulster have been told they can only have 3 NIQs, they have also been told any SH must be IQ
From what I understanding there is no wiggle room in this

[Brendan]

Ulster have been told they can only have 3 NIQs, they have also been told any SH must be IQ
From what I understanding there is no wiggle room in this

I know we need top players for the national side but when we have 4 SH that each can play international I don't see what is wrong with bringing in a NIQ SH to push players like Cooney who really has no one at Ulster who is going to do it.
Both Marmion and McGrath have SH who are pushing them hard at provisional level which helps raise their standards. Cooney needs that and an older NIQ who could improve Cooney's knowledge and maybe take on some coaching stuff would be great.

[geoff999rugby]

Brendan write to Nucifora it is him who is dictating this policy

[Kingshu]

I would find it hard to take and unreasonable if Ulster approched Pienaar about one last playing year, with an academy coaching role, and it was turned down by the IRFU.
At SH we have a good player but do need more back up, our 10s are all very young and could do with an experienced hand to guide them.
Pienaar as 9/10 cover with a coaching role is just what we really need, a perfect fit.

Munster were allowed Mathewson, and Gibson-Park will become Irish qualifed to its one more Irish SH than when Munster were allowed a NIQ SH.

Of course its wishful thinking and DMcF may not even wish Pienaar, as he looks to mould the squad in a style he wants. Pienaar while a classy player isnt your physical fight for every inch style player that Dan wants.

Its all a bit of wishful thinking. Would love RP to get his swansong at Ulster though.

[Brendan]

Brendan write to Nucifora it is him who is dictating this policy

If I thought it would change things I would. I can see Ulster catching Munster next year. Their young back 3 will cause alot of teams problems.

[Pot Hale]

With Leinster announcing a lot of their new contracts and academy promotions this week, the picture emerging for the 4 provinces for next seasons is another strong pointer where the IRFU policy is headed on domestic development.

In total, 19 Irish-born players have been promoted from the provincial academies so far:
Leinster 7
Connacht 5
Munster 4
Ulster 3

Irish-born senior player transfers
Connacht (41 senior + 14 academy)
1 from Gloucester
1 Leinster
1 Munster
1 Clontarf
1 Nottingham
Plus
1 Australia 7s (NIE)

Leinster (45 senior +14 academy)
1 Connacht

Munster (44 senior + 15 academy)
1 Leinster

Ulster (44 senior +15 academy)
1 Leinster
1 Munster
1 Worcester (SA-born IQ)
plus
1 NZ (NIE)
1 Aus (NIE)

174 senior players plus 58 academy (so far)

To date, there will be 31 SH-born senior players in Irish rugby for next season including:
8 Irish-qualified/capped* through parents/grandparents/moved when young - Reidy*, Bealham*, Bent*, Carbery*, Herring*, Milasinovich, Robertson-McCoy, Curtis
3 capped through residency - Stander, Aki and Roux
6 are*/will be qualified through residency but uncapped - Ludik*, McCartney*, Bleyendaal*, Marshall, Kleyn, Gibson-Park
5 will be non-qualified uncapped - Lowe, Cloete, Fainga'a, Horwitz, Butler
9 are ineligible through being previously capped for their respective countries - Fardy, Tomane, Coetzee, Botha, Mathewson, Porch, Faddes, Carter, and Godwin.

[geoff999rugby]

Breaking that down by Province
                                                     Leinster           Munster           Ulster          Connacht
Irish qualified/capped                            1                     1                   4                   2
Capped through residency                     0                      1                   0                  2
Qualified through residency                    1                     3                   1                   1                
Not qualified                                         1                      1                  0                   3
NIQ                                                     3                      2                   3                  2

Leinster    6 - 5 - 2
Munster    8 - 7 - 5
Ulster       8 - 4  - 1
Connacht  10 - 9 - 6

The second figure is stripping out those who are qualified through parentage
The third figure is a combination of the residency qualified players and provinces need to make moves because that is effectively coming to an end
and I would suggest losing the dependency on that is key for long term sustainability
Ulster will, I assume, release there only Residency based player (Ludik) next summer

[Pot Hale]

Not sure I follow your table Geoff. What are the NIQ player numbers? NIE plus uncapped players eg Fardy, Tomane and Lowe at Leinster?

I agree with you on the NIQ players. I can see Ludik, McCartney heading out the door next June. Bleyendaal I think got a 2-year contract extension. Lowe’s current contract runs until next June. I assume Leinster will seek to renew it although he wouldn’t be residency qualified until mid-Nov 2020. Marshall and Kleyn will be residency qualified later this year. Not sure if Cloete will remain when his contract ends. Ditto Bleyendaal. Connacht are still on a longer leash evidently.

[geoff999rugby]

NIQ is your last column i.e .NIE - although I have added 1 more to Leinster than I should
There figures should therefore be 5-4-2

Interestingly the three senior provinces are all down to 3 NIQ (albeit Munster also have Marshall, Kleyn and Mathewson at the start of the year who are NIQ)

Reinforces my understanding the provinces will be confined to 3 NIQ going forward, although not official

[Don Alfonso]

Busby, Nelson and Owens also gone from Ulster - 41 senior players?

[Pot Hale]

I see that the IRFU have agreed a 3-year contract extension for David Nucifora as Performance Director. He ain't done yet.

https://www.irishrugby.ie/2019/05/22/irfu-extend-contract-of-performance-director-david-nucifora/

[Pot Hale]

Busby, Nelson and Owens also gone from Ulster - 41 senior players?

Nagle is confirmed as going as well, then that makes it 40 at senior level. Presumably, they plan to use Balacounne and Kernohan more next season.

[geoff999rugby]

Busby, Nelson and Owens also gone from Ulster - 41 senior players?

Nagle is confirmed as going as well, then that makes it 40 at senior level.  Presumably, they plan to use Balacounne and Kernohan more next season.

I doubt it - Busby and Owens made virtually no contribution this year
Cave and Nelson gone but we have signed Johnson and Faddes.
Give a fair wind on injuries to Addison and Gilroy we may well see them slightly less - they both played in, something like 15/16 games each this year anyway.

[mikey_dragon]

Is the Sam Carter who played for Brumbies on Friday the one who is joining Ulster?

[Pete330v2]

Is the Sam Carter who played for Brumbies on Friday the one who is joining Ulster?

That's him, how did he do? Didn't get to see it

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