Political round up.............

by **superflyweight** Tue 21 Nov 2017, 8:01 pm

First topic message reminder :

LionsV2 wrote:
Galted wrote:

As much as I agree with you that much of the reason for the Leave vote was the racism and pig-ignorance of the likes of Lionsv2 and old people, I'm not sure the questions you're asking are particularly relevant. I'd quite like a cut in local crime but couldn't name a single local criminal.

I beg your pardon?

No doubt the mods will do nothing about that.

He said you were “PIG IGNORANT”. I’ve heard of hard of hearing before but not hard of reading.

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 09 Oct 2018, 11:36 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:I'll vote for who best fits my views. None of this tactical voting scheiss.

Your PR comment highlights just what a poor system we have in the U.K. Not fit for the modern world, but why would the main parties change it? Laughable.

I was speaking generally......I don't believe in renationalisation or people being taxed to death....I do believe in "aspiration" though it is an over-used word..

But I would vote Labour to get this terrible Govt out if I lived in a marginal......Which my seat was until 2015...(used to be Lib Dem)

I reiterate the point that Centrism just isn't enthusing for enough people....

It is basically moderation....Like I said people like me vote Govts in or out......Until we see PR.
True. It's called growing up, realism, etc.

Give us some Centrist policies if you are a centrist ??

Iraq War....PFI....90 day detention....Cutting red lines so Bankers run amok....Sucking up to Murdoch.....Academies..Cutting workers rights.....= Right wing policies..

Minimum wage......Sure Start etc......Were in the GE17 manifesto for Hard Left Labour..

Centrism is a great word but it doesn't mean a lot......Perhaps it is why people like me won't vote Liberal until they have more than "I am a Centrist" to offer..

I won't grow up just yet !!

by lostinwales Tue 09 Oct 2018, 2:48 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:I'll vote for who best fits my views. None of this tactical voting scheiss.

Your PR comment highlights just what a poor system we have in the U.K. Not fit for the modern world, but why would the main parties change it? Laughable.

I was speaking generally......I don't believe in renationalisation or people being taxed to death....I do believe in "aspiration" though it is an over-used word..

But I would vote Labour to get this terrible Govt out if I lived in a marginal......Which my seat was until 2015...(used to be Lib Dem)

I reiterate the point that Centrism just isn't enthusing for enough people....

It is basically moderation....Like I said people like me vote Govts in or out......Until we see PR.
True. It's called growing up, realism, etc.

Give us some Centrist policies if you are a centrist ??

Iraq War....PFI....90 day detention....Cutting red lines so Bankers run amok....Sucking up to Murdoch.....Academies..Cutting workers rights.....= Right wing policies..

Minimum wage......Sure Start etc......Were in the GE17 manifesto for Hard Left Labour..

Centrism is a great word but it doesn't mean a lot......Perhaps it is why people like me won't vote Liberal until they have more than "I am a Centrist" to offer..

I won't grow up just yet !!

Well life was still better under the last Labour government, and first term Blair was the best UK government in my lifetime. But this version of Labour hate the past, and seem to be stuck in dogma every bit as much as the Tories.

One of many things that really gets me about saintly JC and his acolytes is this 'always on the right side of history' BS. It is considerably easier to be on the 'right side of history' if your ideas or theories are never ever put to the test.

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 09 Oct 2018, 3:27 pm

Blair was 10 pts behind when he was replaced by Brown who got 27% at GE10..

Corbyn got 40%...GE17.

Not a fan of Corbyn. Prefer Thornberry....BUT..

Your post doesn't tell me what policies I would be voting for if Umunna was leading Labour.

My guess is the fact they don't have any is why Corbyn despite being only neck and neck with this crappy Govt is the safest out of all the leaders

by **navyblueshorts** Tue 09 Oct 2018, 4:17 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:I'll vote for who best fits my views. None of this tactical voting scheiss.

Your PR comment highlights just what a poor system we have in the U.K. Not fit for the modern world, but why would the main parties change it? Laughable.

I was speaking generally......I don't believe in renationalisation or people being taxed to death....I do believe in "aspiration" though it is an over-used word..

But I would vote Labour to get this terrible Govt out if I lived in a marginal......Which my seat was until 2015...(used to be Lib Dem)

I reiterate the point that Centrism just isn't enthusing for enough people....

It is basically moderation....Like I said people like me vote Govts in or out......Until we see PR.
True. It's called growing up, realism, etc.

Give us some Centrist policies if you are a centrist ??

Iraq War....PFI....90 day detention....Cutting red lines so Bankers run amok....Sucking up to Murdoch.....Academies..Cutting workers rights.....= Right wing policies..

Minimum wage......Sure Start etc......Were in the GE17 manifesto for Hard Left Labour..

Centrism is a great word but it doesn't mean a lot......Perhaps it is why people like me won't vote Liberal until they have more than "I am a Centrist" to offer..

I won't grow up just yet !!

How about compromise? Extreme Left or Right hasn't ever really worked.

by **navyblueshorts** Tue 09 Oct 2018, 4:22 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Blair was 10 pts behind when he was replaced by Brown who got 27% at GE10..

Corbyn got 40%...GE17.

Not a fan of Corbyn. Prefer Thornberry....BUT..

Your post doesn't tell me what policies I would be voting for if Umunna was leading Labour.

My guess is the fact they don't have any is why Corbyn despite being only neck and neck with this crappy Govt is the safest out of all the leaders

Corbyn's "success" is entirely anti-austerity (whatever that's supposed to mean) etc. He's at high water (with current attitude), which means he'll almost certainly never form a majority Government. Nothing he says or does, is going to persuade soft Tories or ex-Lib Dems.

by **Hero** Tue 09 Oct 2018, 4:43 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Blair was 10 pts behind when he was replaced by Brown who got 27% at GE10..

Corbyn got 40%...GE17.

Not a fan of Corbyn. Prefer Thornberry....BUT..

Your post doesn't tell me what policies I would be voting for if Umunna was leading Labour.

My guess is the fact they don't have any is why Corbyn despite being only neck and neck with this crappy Govt is the safest out of all the leaders
Corbyn's "success" is entirely anti-austerity (whatever that's supposed to mean) etc. He's at high water (with current attitude), which means he'll almost certainly never form a majority Government. Nothing he says or does, is going to persuade soft Tories or ex-Lib Dems.

I'm traditionally Lib Dem but voted for him at the last election.

by **JuliusHMarx** Tue 09 Oct 2018, 4:44 pm

Hero wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Blair was 10 pts behind when he was replaced by Brown who got 27% at GE10..

Corbyn got 40%...GE17.

Not a fan of Corbyn. Prefer Thornberry....BUT..

Your post doesn't tell me what policies I would be voting for if Umunna was leading Labour.

My guess is the fact they don't have any is why Corbyn despite being only neck and neck with this crappy Govt is the safest out of all the leaders
Corbyn's "success" is entirely anti-austerity (whatever that's supposed to mean) etc. He's at high water (with current attitude), which means he'll almost certainly never form a majority Government. Nothing he says or does, is going to persuade soft Tories or ex-Lib Dems.

I'm traditionally Lib Dem but voted for him at the last election.

Oy vey!

by Cardiff Dave Tue 09 Oct 2018, 4:48 pm

MrInvisible wrote:@Superfly, re: 'tribal politics' - that's why conventional wisdom about winning elections has focused on swing voters in marginal constituencies, with the core vote sometimes taken for granted (e.g. New Labour neglecting the Labour heartlands and Cameron/Osborne focusing on more metropolitan 'liberal' voters). However we have seen recently that some politicians have been able to follow a different strategy, by enthusing their base to turn out and vote, with radical/controversial policies, calculating that this support can offset losing some of the swing voters. Trump is the obvious example of this - he's toxic amongst many, but in 2016 managed to get enough of his core vote out (whilst benefiting from a lack of enthusiasm amongst non voting electorate who couldn't bring themselves to vote for Hilary). Corbyn also has adopted a similar approach (albeit from a much different position on the political spectrum), where the strategy has been to enthuse parts of the electorate who had been left cold by New Labour.

On the Election Campaign debates I was very sceptical when they came to the UK and still feel uncomfortable with the presidential style, which is at odds with our political system. However, on the whole I think they are a force for good just about on balance as they have led to more people engaging with politics than previously, and they've given an opportunity for smaller parties to get their message across.

Finally, one of the features of modern politics which is neglected all too often by the mainstream media is the influence of corporate lobbyists. I like the suggestion made by political comedian/activist Mark Thomas several years ago that all MPs should be forced to wear a jacket listing all the lobbyists they are in cahoots with, similar to the Formula 1 drivers with all their sponsors' logos.

Use to watch his show on Channel 4, back in the day.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mark_Thomas_Comedy_Product

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 09 Oct 2018, 4:58 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:I'll vote for who best fits my views. None of this tactical voting scheiss.

Your PR comment highlights just what a poor system we have in the U.K. Not fit for the modern world, but why would the main parties change it? Laughable.

I was speaking generally......I don't believe in renationalisation or people being taxed to death....I do believe in "aspiration" though it is an over-used word..

But I would vote Labour to get this terrible Govt out if I lived in a marginal......Which my seat was until 2015...(used to be Lib Dem)

I reiterate the point that Centrism just isn't enthusing for enough people....

It is basically moderation....Like I said people like me vote Govts in or out......Until we see PR.
True. It's called growing up, realism, etc.

Give us some Centrist policies if you are a centrist ??

Iraq War....PFI....90 day detention....Cutting red lines so Bankers run amok....Sucking up to Murdoch.....Academies..Cutting workers rights.....= Right wing policies..

Minimum wage......Sure Start etc......Were in the GE17 manifesto for Hard Left Labour..

Centrism is a great word but it doesn't mean a lot......Perhaps it is why people like me won't vote Liberal until they have more than "I am a Centrist" to offer..

I won't grow up just yet !!
How about compromise? Extreme Left or Right hasn't ever really worked.

So you can't name any Centrist policies...No problem..

Bringing private Finance into the NHS.......That a compromise ??
Bringing in Academies that were not accountable to local Authorities.....A compromise ??
Wasting billions on an illegal war ??
40% Tax rate for high earners when it is 45% under the extreme right ??

'Centrism' is just a word....A place for people who haven't got a vision..

Hope that changes but till it does.......I will vote Labour next time..

by MrInvisible Thu 11 Oct 2018, 12:46 pm

Universal credit roll-out is a developing story worth keeping an eye on. Former PM John Major (who I never liked much at the time, but who I have since admired for his timely interventions on Brexit, austerity, etc) is warning today that the planned roll-out of universal credit could turn into a poll-tax type moment for the government next year: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/oct/11/john-major-universal-credit-could-result-in-backlash-like-poll-tax
The scheme has been badly managed and flawed from the outset and there's a real risk many thousands of people will suffer real hardship with delayed payments. Reading that Guardian article you can see IDS is in complete denial!

by Cardiff Dave Thu 11 Oct 2018, 1:51 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:I'll vote for who best fits my views. None of this tactical voting scheiss.

Your PR comment highlights just what a poor system we have in the U.K. Not fit for the modern world, but why would the main parties change it? Laughable.

I was speaking generally......I don't believe in renationalisation or people being taxed to death....I do believe in "aspiration" though it is an over-used word..

But I would vote Labour to get this terrible Govt out if I lived in a marginal......Which my seat was until 2015...(used to be Lib Dem)

I reiterate the point that Centrism just isn't enthusing for enough people....

It is basically moderation....Like I said people like me vote Govts in or out......Until we see PR.
True. It's called growing up, realism, etc.

Give us some Centrist policies if you are a centrist ??

Iraq War....PFI....90 day detention....Cutting red lines so Bankers run amok....Sucking up to Murdoch.....Academies..Cutting workers rights.....= Right wing policies..

Minimum wage......Sure Start etc......Were in the GE17 manifesto for Hard Left Labour..

Centrism is a great word but it doesn't mean a lot......Perhaps it is why people like me won't vote Liberal until they have more than "I am a Centrist" to offer..

I won't grow up just yet !!
How about compromise? Extreme Left or Right hasn't ever really worked.

So you can't name any Centrist policies...No problem..

Bringing private Finance into the NHS.......That a compromise ??
Bringing in Academies that were not accountable to local Authorities.....A compromise ??
Wasting billions on an illegal war ??
40% Tax rate for high earners when it is 45% under the extreme right ??

'Centrism' is just a word....A place for people who haven't got a vision..

Hope that changes but till it does.......I will vote Labour next time..

Became legal after a few words were rearranged here and there, IIRC.
Bingo, mi$$ion accomplished!
As you've jogged my memory, whatever happened re cash for honours? Seem to remember Blair getting grilled by the filth.

by **navyblueshorts** Thu 11 Oct 2018, 4:14 pm

Hero wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Blair was 10 pts behind when he was replaced by Brown who got 27% at GE10..

Corbyn got 40%...GE17.

Not a fan of Corbyn. Prefer Thornberry....BUT..

Your post doesn't tell me what policies I would be voting for if Umunna was leading Labour.

My guess is the fact they don't have any is why Corbyn despite being only neck and neck with this crappy Govt is the safest out of all the leaders
Corbyn's "success" is entirely anti-austerity (whatever that's supposed to mean) etc. He's at high water (with current attitude), which means he'll almost certainly never form a majority Government. Nothing he says or does, is going to persuade soft Tories or ex-Lib Dems.

I'm traditionally Lib Dem but voted for him at the last election.

Are you glad you did so now?

by **navyblueshorts** Thu 11 Oct 2018, 4:22 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:I'll vote for who best fits my views. None of this tactical voting scheiss.

Your PR comment highlights just what a poor system we have in the U.K. Not fit for the modern world, but why would the main parties change it? Laughable.

I was speaking generally......I don't believe in renationalisation or people being taxed to death....I do believe in "aspiration" though it is an over-used word..

But I would vote Labour to get this terrible Govt out if I lived in a marginal......Which my seat was until 2015...(used to be Lib Dem)

I reiterate the point that Centrism just isn't enthusing for enough people....

It is basically moderation....Like I said people like me vote Govts in or out......Until we see PR.
True. It's called growing up, realism, etc.

Give us some Centrist policies if you are a centrist ??

Iraq War....PFI....90 day detention....Cutting red lines so Bankers run amok....Sucking up to Murdoch.....Academies..Cutting workers rights.....= Right wing policies..

Minimum wage......Sure Start etc......Were in the GE17 manifesto for Hard Left Labour..

Centrism is a great word but it doesn't mean a lot......Perhaps it is why people like me won't vote Liberal until they have more than "I am a Centrist" to offer..

I won't grow up just yet !!
How about compromise? Extreme Left or Right hasn't ever really worked.

So you can't name any Centrist policies...No problem..

Bringing private Finance into the NHS.......That a compromise ??
Bringing in Academies that were not accountable to local Authorities.....A compromise ??
Wasting billions on an illegal war ??
40% Tax rate for high earners when it is 45% under the extreme right ??

'Centrism' is just a word....A place for people who haven't got a vision..

Hope that changes but till it does.......I will vote Labour next time..

:yawn: Extreme Right or Left hasn't worked. Ever.

I get your point re. 'centrism' as a word. Perhaps what I really mean is that we have a system of electing a Government worthy of a modern world i.e. some form of PR.
Your 'vision' is just experimenting with livelihoods, informed by dogma. Plenty of the Left/Right have a 'vision'; it's just that it's usually utter bollox.

by lostinwales Thu 11 Oct 2018, 9:39 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:I'll vote for who best fits my views. None of this tactical voting scheiss.

Your PR comment highlights just what a poor system we have in the U.K. Not fit for the modern world, but why would the main parties change it? Laughable.

I was speaking generally......I don't believe in renationalisation or people being taxed to death....I do believe in "aspiration" though it is an over-used word..

But I would vote Labour to get this terrible Govt out if I lived in a marginal......Which my seat was until 2015...(used to be Lib Dem)

I reiterate the point that Centrism just isn't enthusing for enough people....

It is basically moderation....Like I said people like me vote Govts in or out......Until we see PR.
True. It's called growing up, realism, etc.

Give us some Centrist policies if you are a centrist ??

Iraq War....PFI....90 day detention....Cutting red lines so Bankers run amok....Sucking up to Murdoch.....Academies..Cutting workers rights.....= Right wing policies..

Minimum wage......Sure Start etc......Were in the GE17 manifesto for Hard Left Labour..

Centrism is a great word but it doesn't mean a lot......Perhaps it is why people like me won't vote Liberal until they have more than "I am a Centrist" to offer..

I won't grow up just yet !!
How about compromise? Extreme Left or Right hasn't ever really worked.

So you can't name any Centrist policies...No problem..

Bringing private Finance into the NHS.......That a compromise ??
Bringing in Academies that were not accountable to local Authorities.....A compromise ??
Wasting billions on an illegal war ??
40% Tax rate for high earners when it is 45% under the extreme right ??

'Centrism' is just a word....A place for people who haven't got a vision..

Hope that changes but till it does.......I will vote Labour next time..
:yawn: Extreme Right or Left hasn't worked. Ever.

I get your point re. 'centrism' as a word. Perhaps what I really mean is that we have a system of electing a Government worthy of a modern world i.e. some form of PR.
Your 'vision' is just experimenting with livelihoods, informed by dogma. Plenty of the Left/Right have a 'vision'; it's just that it's usually utter bollox.

Yeah I like to think that we could have talented people in government working to make things better and reacting to circumstances. Not blindly marching on following a dogma that is 30, 40 years out of date.

by **Hero** Thu 11 Oct 2018, 11:19 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Hero wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Blair was 10 pts behind when he was replaced by Brown who got 27% at GE10..

Corbyn got 40%...GE17.

Not a fan of Corbyn. Prefer Thornberry....BUT..

Your post doesn't tell me what policies I would be voting for if Umunna was leading Labour.

My guess is the fact they don't have any is why Corbyn despite being only neck and neck with this crappy Govt is the safest out of all the leaders
Corbyn's "success" is entirely anti-austerity (whatever that's supposed to mean) etc. He's at high water (with current attitude), which means he'll almost certainly never form a majority Government. Nothing he says or does, is going to persuade soft Tories or ex-Lib Dems.

I'm traditionally Lib Dem but voted for him at the last election.
Are you glad you did so now?

For the most part, not that he's the best thing since sliced bread and I certainly disagree on his viewpoint on Europe but given that it's a straight choice between an ever increasing left and an ever increasing right then bring on the revolution.

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 12 Oct 2018, 2:06 pm

Hero has hit the nail on the head..

May v Corbyn...I will take Corbyn..

Prefer a Thornberry but we are where we are.

by **navyblueshorts** Fri 12 Oct 2018, 2:14 pm

If you say so. I can't see me voting for either of them. Time to look at some alternatives, even if it's a so-called wasted vote.

by Luke Fri 12 Oct 2018, 2:35 pm

What we need. Is a Lib Dems revival. With strong sensible policies. Like before Clegg ripped the party apart.

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 12 Oct 2018, 2:36 pm

Vote Green if you aren't sure..

They haven't sold out.....Yet.

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 12 Oct 2018, 2:41 pm

Luke wrote:What we need. Is a Lib Dems revival. With strong sensible policies. Like before Clegg ripped the party apart.

Lib Dems died in 2010..

R.I.P

by Luke Fri 12 Oct 2018, 3:43 pm

Unfortunately yeah they did. Ruined by one man's greed to be in some sort of power.
But with what's happening with the main parties. If they could get the right man in charge, come out with some decent policies and stick to them. they could revive the party again. There's enough disaffected voters who are looking for someone else.

by **navyblueshorts** Fri 12 Oct 2018, 4:52 pm

Luke wrote:Unfortunately yeah they did. Ruined by one man's greed to be in some sort of power.
But with what's happening with the main parties. If they could get the right man in charge, come out with some decent policies and stick to them. they could revive the party again. There's enough disaffected voters who are looking for someone else.

Not sure it was one man's greed (unless you mean Cameron), but they certainly let the Tories take any credit, while at the same time rolling over as their whipping boys. Think the name "Lib Dem" is done for as too many would associate it with that coalition etc.

by Duty281 Fri 12 Oct 2018, 4:55 pm

Luke wrote:What we need. Is a Lib Dems revival. With strong sensible policies. Like before Clegg ripped the party apart.

The closest thing to that will be the new 'centrist' party, funded by dodgy money, backed by Blair and the Europhile elite, and stuffed full of disaffected/deselected Labour MPs, plus the odd miserable Tory.

Coming to a General Election near you...soon.

by SecretFly Fri 12 Oct 2018, 5:10 pm

Luke wrote:What we need. Is a Lib Dems revival. With strong sensible policies. Like before Clegg ripped the party apart.

Name five Strong and Sensible policies that are shunned by both the Conservatives and Corbyn's Back-to-Basics Labour.

by **JuliusHMarx** Fri 12 Oct 2018, 5:33 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Luke wrote:What we need. Is a Lib Dems revival. With strong sensible policies. Like before Clegg ripped the party apart.

The closest thing to that will be the new 'centrist' party, funded by dodgy money, backed by Blair and the Europhile elite, and stuffed full of disaffected/deselected Labour MPs, plus the odd miserable Tory.

Coming to a General Election near you...soon.

The two main parties are funded by dodgy money, have elite (both Europhile and Eurosceptic), and are stuffed full of disaffected and miserable MPs.

In fact, replace 'MPs' with 'members' and 606v2 is like that as well!

by SecretFly Fri 12 Oct 2018, 5:40 pm

606ers are funded by dodgy Europhile/Eurosceptic money?

I KNEW there was something fishy about the bizarre Religious-like fanatical convictions of some guys here!

Seem like the Europhile dodgy money pays more though............... Whistle

by **Galted** Fri 12 Oct 2018, 8:35 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Luke wrote:What we need. Is a Lib Dems revival. With strong sensible policies. Like before Clegg ripped the party apart.

The closest thing to that will be the new 'centrist' party, funded by dodgy money, backed by Blair and the Europhile elite, and stuffed full of disaffected/deselected Labour MPs, plus the odd miserable Tory.

Coming to a General Election near you...soon.

The two main parties are funded by dodgy money, have elite (both Europhile and Eurosceptic), and are stuffed full of disaffected and miserable MPs.

In fact, replace 'MPs' with 'members' and 606v2 is like that as well!

Don’t forget Jeff’s shock resignation and Tino being poisoned by those Russian posters.

by TRUSSMAN66 Sat 13 Oct 2018, 7:38 am

The problem with the New Centrist Party is Blair..

He has the worst approval rating of any leader Past or present and 60% of the disapproving in a Yougov poll want him on trial..

If you can keep him away it may work...But keeping a low profile isn't Blair's style....Would also need the Lib Dems approval and some are still sore about issues like Iraq..

Factor in also that The Tories are viewed as the only ones that can stop Corbyn and vice versa..

Jury is out...

Will cost a 100m to set up from scratch....600 constituencies to get settled in..Offices...Staff..PR....Lawyers..Accountants..Equipment..etc etc....Also many Blairites have big majorities..

No go without Lib Dems for sure and that isn't a given..

by **navyblueshorts** Sat 13 Oct 2018, 11:28 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The problem with the New Centrist Party is Blair..

He has the worst approval rating of any leader Past or present and 60% of the disapproving in a Yougov poll want him on trial..

If you can keep him away it may work...But keeping a low profile isn't Blair's style....Would also need the Lib Dems approval and some are still sore about issues like Iraq..

Factor in also that The Tories are viewed as the only ones that can stop Corbyn and vice versa..

Jury is out...

Will cost a 100m to set up from scratch....600 constituencies to get settled in..Offices...Staff..PR....Lawyers..Accountants..Equipment..etc etc....Also many Blairites have big majorities..

No go without Lib Dems for sure and that isn't a given..

Quite. The man's a pariah; deservedly so.

by TRUSSMAN66 Sat 13 Oct 2018, 4:59 pm

I see West Virginia is the first State where you can vote by smart phone..

If some how Labour do win power well worth making it easier to vote..

After all right wing Parties have historically found it easier to get their vote out..

by lostinwales Sun 14 Oct 2018, 12:49 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Luke wrote:What we need. Is a Lib Dems revival. With strong sensible policies. Like before Clegg ripped the party apart.

Name five Strong and Sensible policies that are shunned by both the Conservatives and Corbyn's Back-to-Basics Labour.

Strong and sensible policies(lies) are not usually the problem. It's the bat poop crazy ones around the edges. It's also having a government that isn't going to be a joke on the international stage

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 16 Oct 2018, 6:47 pm

The needless HS2 costs have risen to 100 billion.

Quite something considering Public sector workers are using Foodbanks and this Universal Credit roll out looks set to hurt quite a few people..

Priorities are amiss ..

by **navyblueshorts** Wed 17 Oct 2018, 10:50 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The needless HS2 costs have risen to 100 billion.

Quite something considering Public sector workers are using Foodbanks and this Universal Credit roll out looks set to hurt quite a few people..

Priorities are amiss ..

Really? Not surprised. Got to be the biggest waste of money in living memory.

by Cardiff Dave Wed 17 Oct 2018, 1:51 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The needless HS2 costs have risen to 100 billion.

Quite something considering Public sector workers are using Foodbanks and this Universal Credit roll out looks set to hurt quite a few people..

Priorities are amiss ..

Not including those on stonking 6 figure salaries, of course.

by **Hero** Wed 17 Oct 2018, 3:51 pm

Galted wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Luke wrote:What we need. Is a Lib Dems revival. With strong sensible policies. Like before Clegg ripped the party apart.

The closest thing to that will be the new 'centrist' party, funded by dodgy money, backed by Blair and the Europhile elite, and stuffed full of disaffected/deselected Labour MPs, plus the odd miserable Tory.

Coming to a General Election near you...soon.

The two main parties are funded by dodgy money, have elite (both Europhile and Eurosceptic), and are stuffed full of disaffected and miserable MPs.

In fact, replace 'MPs' with 'members' and 606v2 is like that as well!

Don’t forget Jeff’s shock resignation and Tino being poisoned by those Russian posters.

That makes me Theresa May!

by **JuliusHMarx** Wed 17 Oct 2018, 4:19 pm

Hero wrote:
Galted wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Luke wrote:What we need. Is a Lib Dems revival. With strong sensible policies. Like before Clegg ripped the party apart.

The closest thing to that will be the new 'centrist' party, funded by dodgy money, backed by Blair and the Europhile elite, and stuffed full of disaffected/deselected Labour MPs, plus the odd miserable Tory.

Coming to a General Election near you...soon.

The two main parties are funded by dodgy money, have elite (both Europhile and Eurosceptic), and are stuffed full of disaffected and miserable MPs.

In fact, replace 'MPs' with 'members' and 606v2 is like that as well!

Don’t forget Jeff’s shock resignation and Tino being poisoned by those Russian posters.

That makes me Theresa May!

Therosa May

by Cardiff Dave Wed 17 Oct 2018, 4:45 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The needless HS2 costs have risen to 100 billion.

Quite something considering Public sector workers are using Foodbanks and this Universal Credit roll out looks set to hurt quite a few people..

Priorities are amiss ..
Really? Not surprised. Got to be the biggest waste of money in living memory.

Jonathan Ross's £18m from the Beeb?
Welsh Assembly Government? WTF do they do anyway other than ponce about pretending to be important whilst arguing the toss?
PFIs? Wonder who's getting rich/richer from those lucrative maintenance contracts?

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 17 Oct 2018, 7:40 pm

Latest rumour is SNP putting through Chequers by abstaining on the vote..For another pop at independence.

Smart move perhaps but Holyrood Elections coming soon.

Propping up May ??

Sure Craig will like it.

by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 21 Oct 2018, 2:23 pm

Good news for May is

Kantar.... Con 41....Lab 36
Survation.Con 39...Lab 38

Bad news is rumour has it that she is as little as 2 letters from a VoNC ..

by **JuliusHMarx** Sun 21 Oct 2018, 3:12 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Good news for May is

Kantar.... Con 41....Lab 36
Survation.Con 39...Lab 38

Bad news is rumour has it that she is as little as 2 letters from a VoNC ..

Which 2 letters? V, o, N or C?

by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 21 Oct 2018, 3:38 pm

You pick....Julius..

by **JuliusHMarx** Sun 21 Oct 2018, 3:57 pm

Everyone picks Julius Smile

by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 21 Oct 2018, 4:59 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:Everyone picks Julius

Brutus didn't..

Theresa May's odds in from 9/1 to 3/1 to go...Davis back as 3rd favourite from outsider status..

Big decision to get rid of the robot my guess is she stays till March 29..

by CaledonianCraig Mon 22 Oct 2018, 8:43 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Latest rumour is SNP putting through Chequers by abstaining on the vote..For another pop at independence.

Smart move perhaps but Holyrood Elections coming soon.

Propping up May ??

Sure Craig will like it.

Hmm I am not so sure if that is the reason for abstaining. The SNP said they would abstain from voting on things in Westminster since their mis-treatment en-masse (in my opinion) in the spring/summer when they walked out in protest due to their treatment. In any case I cannot see the Tories agreeing to this unless that is the hidden reason for traitors Mundell and Davidson's sudden discontent with Westminster Tories.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 22 Oct 2018, 8:10 pm

Rose tinted glasses in my opinion...Craig.

Think the SNP care about dissolution more than anything else..All day every day..

BUT...Happy to hear conflicting opinions..

What do we all know ??...

by CaledonianCraig Mon 22 Oct 2018, 8:52 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Rose tinted glasses in my opinion...Craig.

Think the SNP care about dissolution more than anything else..All day every day..

BUT...Happy to hear conflicting opinions..

What do we all know ??...

That being the case then why won't the SNP vote in favour of Chequers?

by **superflyweight** Tue 23 Oct 2018, 9:56 am

Think Sturgeon (but not necessarily some of the nuttier elements of the SNP - otherwise known as the "Salmond Wing") is currently keener on a "People's Vote" than on a second independence referendum.

A softer Brexit or a u-turn to Remain would give the SNP much more time to present the case for independence and to develop a workable economic plan (something they fundamentally failed to do last time) without necessarily having to navigate and overcome the harsher economic conditions that Brexit is likely to bring. Although Chequers or Hard Brexit would bring forward the timing of a second independence referendum and would massively increase the likelihood of Scotland voting for independence, it's only the hardcore nationalists that don't acknowledge how difficult the transition period would be. Sturgeon is fully aware of the difficulties, hence why she is trying to hold the flag-wavers back.

by CaledonianCraig Tue 23 Oct 2018, 11:00 am

superflyweight wrote:Think Sturgeon (but not necessarily some of the nuttier elements of the SNP - otherwise known as the "Salmond Wing") is currently keener on a "People's Vote" than on a second independence referendum.

A softer Brexit or a u-turn to Remain would give the SNP much more time to present the case for independence and to develop a workable economic plan (something they fundamentally failed to do last time) without necessarily having to navigate and overcome the harsher economic conditions that Brexit is likely to bring. Although Chequers or Hard Brexit would bring forward the timing of a second independence referendum and would massively increase the likelihood of Scotland voting for independence, it's only the hardcore nationalists that don't acknowledge how difficult the transition period would be. Sturgeon is fully aware of the difficulties, hence why she is trying to hold the flag-wavers back.

I agree with the basic premise of the post but it is a pity it is laced with unnecessary terms such as 'nuttier element', 'hardcore nationalists' and 'flag wavers'. These are people who seek independence for Scotland as they see it as the way forward. Nuttier element? Any nuttier than the Tories driving the Brexit bus off a cliff who actually are in power in running the UK? Hardcore nationalists? Anymore hardcore than the unionists who swear blind Scotland is too wee, too weak, too poor to be independent yet want it kept part of the union? Flag wavers? Like those at Last Night of the Proms that people drool over do you mean?

by **superflyweight** Tue 23 Oct 2018, 12:52 pm

Nuttier elements - see Alex Salmond, Pete Wishart, Angus MacNeil for an example of what I mean.

Hardcore nationalists? Anymore hardcore than the unionists who swear blind Scotland is too wee, too weak, too poor to be independent yet want it kept part of the union?

No more hardcore but the arguments of unionists were not ancillary to the point I was making.

Flag wavers? Like those at Last Night of the Proms that people drool over do you mean?

I'm not sure Last Night of the Proms should ever be used as an indicator of political sentiment. It's equivalent to attributing political motive to everyone who waves a flag or a scarf at a football match. In any event, there were a large proportion of people waving EU flags at this year's event. I was thinking more of idiots like this:

Political round up............. - Page 18 Search?q=salmond+saltire&safe=strict&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiW_Pf5vpzeAhXJVsAKHTC0Bz4Q_AUIDigB&biw=1366&bih=623#imgrc=79V2ccUQNrtrDM:&spf=1540295253833

by CaledonianCraig Tue 23 Oct 2018, 1:12 pm

superflyweight wrote:Nuttier elements - see Alex Salmond, Pete Wishart, Angus MacNeil for an example of what I mean.

Hardcore nationalists? Anymore hardcore than the unionists who swear blind Scotland is too wee, too weak, too poor to be independent yet want it kept part of the union?

No more hardcore but the arguments of unionists were not ancillary to the point I was making.

Flag wavers? Like those at Last Night of the Proms that people drool over do you mean?
I'm not sure Last Night of the Proms should ever be used as an indicator of political sentiment. It's equivalent to attributing political motive to everyone who waves a flag or a scarf at a football match. In any event, there were a large proportion of people waving EU flags at this year's event. I was thinking more of idiots like this:

Oh dear. Oh dearie me. I'll leave you to your hating.

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