Ireland WC

First topic message reminder :

Bit early i know.
Will update squads etc once they are announced.
And add the fixtures when I get a spare 10 mins.

Will Addison has been called up to the training squad

How likely is it that Dave Kearney or Mike Haley make the final 31 man squad?
There is no point in getting the B team putting in 'bodies on the line' performance in an eliminator and then watching the RWC from rehab. This game was purely about pruning the squad, and trying to determine who is third and fourth in the pecking order. Herring is probably fourth choice hooker so got this start to keep him fit and interested in case of a phone call from Japan to Belfast - same with a lot of the starters.

Ireland still scored five tries, but I agree that the intensity has to improve against England and Wales. So-called 'key' players like Sexton and Murray have to feel the heat of competition enough to know they can't coast their way onto the plane. Schmidt has built enough depth to make no one indispensible.

How did Kleyn and Beirne go?

mikey_dragon wrote:How did Kleyn and Beirne go?

Kleyn did his job. Nothing spectacular but was effective.
Beirne came on at 6 and won a turnover within 15 second's

Would be happy with either of them to be honest. Both very physical which we need. Two good players, if I had to choose Id choose Beirne but neither will be a bad addition to the squad.

Henderson is the one who might be struggling for his place.

Well that wasn't great but not too bad either. RWC warm ups are really a hiding to nothing and I'd presume quite a few of the players are still in a heavy conditioning phase so would be playing in a fatigued state. Once we get to the Wales games we'll have a better idea of where we are at.

This one was really about finalizing the last few squad places.

Based on that I think Joe will take 4 locks plus Beirne as back row cover and trust Murphy to cover the back row. Ruddock didn't do enough and will probably miss out unless there is an injury.

DK and Conway both played well but looks like Conway has booked a place. Farrell was my MOTM looks nailed on alongside Henshaw, Aki and Ringrose.

Losing Carbury is a big blow, Carty looks like Sextons back up now. Possibly Cooney may get the nod ahead of Marmion as an extra place kicker.

Based on the form and power of SA and England this weekend we need a big step up in our next few games.

Did we lose Carbery definitely? Thought it was just a sprain?

Maybe you're right, I thought I saw he was out.

Rumour this morning that he will be out for 6 weeks.
So wouldn't be in contention till after the Scotland game.
Would seem a big risk to me, if it's true

First pre-season warm-up matches completed and Anscombe & Carberry are on the treatment table. These games are going to get more and more attritional.

I thought in no particular order, Herring looked quiet, Porter got done at LH, Jordi was poor. TOD did relatively well. Thought Kleyn was unspectacular, scrum half started poor and very slow.

Toner is badly needed in the lock position but this RWC is too far removed, father time has caught him. I worry the same thing on Rob Kearney and Best but hope I'm proved wrong.

Farrell as a 12 with Ringrose outside him has a very nice vibe to it. Can't figure out the best combination out of Aki-RH-Farrell-Ringrose though for the position and players high probability of 2 of those players getting injured before RWC.

There was more Irish players in contact looking to make an offload, but supporting lines weren't in place to take advantage of it. Hopefully this develops further in the warmup matches.

Also, what are peoples thoughts on players picking up knocks? Don't like to see it happen but I'd almost prefer a player to be out for 3 months and removed from contention rather than being potentially available 2 days before the first round being back for the last round of games.

The 'machine' should be running from now onwards until the teams finish in the RWC, if a part breaks it gets replaced and the machine keeps running. I really fear a squad of 31 players with 5 carrying severe knocks and hopeful return dates.

Also Carty played well. He's the understudy for Sexton. Byrne is a provincial backup, pro14 starter but not international starter.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:
I thought in no particular order, Herring looked quiet, Porter got done at LH, Jordi was poor.  TOD did relatively well. Thought Kleyn was unspectacular, scrum half started poor and very slow.

Toner is badly needed in the lock position but this RWC is too far removed, father time has caught him.  I worry the same thing on Rob Kearney and Best but hope I'm proved wrong.

I think Herring is gone now too but thought Jordi Murphy did well.

Toner has been out a long time but you are right there are question marks over some of the older guys. The biggest one for me with the likes of Kearney, Best etc is consistency. They are capable of a big game but usually is followed up by an error ridden one.

I'm most worried about Sexton, he seems to have lost a bit of pace and consequently is struggling to draw defenders on to him this season, which is allowing defenders to close down our space in attack a lot more. Carbury, Carty and Byrne are a long way off so we have to hope he can find his best form.

rodders wrote:

thebandwagonsociety wrote:
I thought in no particular order, Herring looked quiet, Porter got done at LH, Jordi was poor.  TOD did relatively well. Thought Kleyn was unspectacular, scrum half started poor and very slow.

Toner is badly needed in the lock position but this RWC is too far removed, father time has caught him.  I worry the same thing on Rob Kearney and Best but hope I'm proved wrong.

I think Herring is gone now too but thought Jordi Murphy did well.

Toner has been out a long time but you are right there are question marks over some of the older guys. The biggest one for me with the likes of Kearney, Best etc is consistency. They are capable of a big game but usually is followed up by an error ridden one.

I'm most worried about Sexton, he seems to have lost a bit of pace and consequently is struggling to draw defenders on to him this season, which is allowing defenders to close down our space in attack a lot more.  Carbury, Carty and Byrne are a long way off so we have to hope he can find his best form.

I wouldn't say Carbery is a long way off. He's been a stand out for Munster this season picking up numerous motm awards. He can play a kicking game or a running game. He has great hands and is a threat with ball in hand.


Its been reported he'll be back fit the Scotland game so fingers crossed. Sexton is going to pick up injuries so carbery will be needed.

You guys started yet?

Started what?

My theory. He will pick carberry and that he will take cooney as third 9/10 cover

Id say Carbery will go too

Regarding squad selection.

5 props
3 hookers
4 locks
6 backrow

5 half backs
4 centers
4 back 3

That's my guess. Unfortunately a few injuries will make selection clearer.

Carbery's injury probably puts Cooney on the plane.
It's between Larmour and Conway for the final back 3 spot.
Any injury to a center means another back 3 player will make it.

That's all my opinion on what I think JS will do.

Think there might be a shock ommision? Farrell playing at 12 for example was interesting since we're presumably bringing both Henshaw and Aki also. Or will Henshaw be used @ 15? Herr Schmidt also hinted Ringrose playing on the wing.

Also is Addison fit.
Can cover 13 15 and he would be fine on the wing.
If he gets some game time I can see him forcing his way in

carpet baboon wrote:Also is Addison fit.
Can cover 13 15 and he would be fine on the wing.
If he gets some game time I can see him forcing his way in

Hopefully he gets a run of games and stays fit. Will give JS food for thought.

An injury prone Sexton, Carberry in recovery and a scrum half as the 3rd outhalf option.

We're going to be in trouble.

I can see Larmour getting dropped. There is this tag of 'not good under the high ball' attached to me, likely to put Conway on the plane or Addison in front of him.

Henshaw at 15 might be an option they roll out in the non-main rounds of the pool stage in order to get players minutes and rotate. If he is 15 for the Scotland game or post pool we are in trouble.

Personally I would have Addison as starting 15.
Good under the high ball, good defence, got pace and is a very good attacker.
He just needs to stay fit and get some game time.
Also a very good boot on him

Collapse2005 wrote:Started what?

Warm ups.

Played Italy, 20 point win, Carbery minor injury. Debuts to Kleyn and Haley. All good really, not much to report.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:An injury prone Sexton, Carberry in recovery and a scrum half as the 3rd outhalf option.

We're going to be in trouble.

I can see Larmour getting dropped.  There is this tag of 'not good under the high ball' attached to me, likely to put Conway on the plane or Addison in front of him.

Henshaw at 15 might be an option they roll out in the non-main rounds of the pool stage in order to get players minutes and rotate. If he is 15 for the Scotland game or post pool we are in trouble.

You hear it a lot about Sexton that he is injury prone but you dont get to 90 test caps if you are injury prone. He is definitely prone to getting targeted though.

Anyone watch that show with Trimble and Flannery?

According to Trimble they've been training with bin liners to replicate the humidity in Japan.

That is the kind of nonsense they did in the amateur era I'm really surprised Joe is carrying out stuff like this....

In the amature era they didnt train at all. At least for the first RWC all Ireland players were banned from training and playing until they got to NZ for fear they would get injured. Donal Lenihan had to organise secret lineout sessions away from the IRFU just to practice calls.

No issue with them using bin liners to replicate hot weather in training. Not every method needs to be state of the art if it works. According to Gary Ringrose the method works and I know they have used it in the past on other tours

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/some-people-are-saying-im-going-over-to-japan-for-the-quarters-for-the-semis-but-the-second-you-start-looking-ahead-that-can-be-your-downfall-garry-ringrose/

Im not convinced it will be that hot and humid that time of year in Japan anyway. Average max for Sept is 27, if it is 27 that would be tough but it is probably going to me more like 25 worst case for the earlier pool games in late Sept and 21 worst case for the knock out games at most. Most probably cooler especially if they are in the evening.  

All Irelands games are played at 4pm or later. Potential quarters will be at 7 in the evening.

That's comical. The WRU spend a fortune sending their players up the Swiss alps while the IRFU use bin liners.

Whats a cynic? A person who knows the price of everything but the value of nothing.
-Oscar Wilde

NASA spent millions developing a pen that could write upside down in space while the Russian space agency just use pencils. Both options worked equally well. Money doesnt always guarantee success.

Wales just lost their first game in 15 games after Gatlands state of the art methods.

profitius wrote:Regarding squad selection.

5 props
3 hookers
4 locks
6 backrow

5 half backs
4 centers
4 back 3

That's my guess. Unfortunately a few injuries will make selection clearer.

Carbery's injury probably puts Cooney on the plane.
It's between Larmour and Conway for the final back 3 spot.
Any injury to a center means another back 3 player will make it.

That's all my opinion on what I think JS will do.

Think there might be a shock ommision? Farrell playing at 12 for example was interesting since we're presumably bringing both Henshaw and Aki also. Or will Henshaw be used @ 15? Herr Schmidt also hinted Ringrose playing on the wing.

Can't see Schmidt taking 4 specialist centres. Ringrose and Henshaw are on the plane as first choice midfield, so it's a straight decision between Aki or Farrell as injury cover. In a train smash Earls or Stockdale could play 13, but it would be just as unfair to move them from their positions as it would be to move Henshaw or Ringrose into the back three. Kearney makes up the five certs for Japan, so the question is who is the utility cover? Aki or Farrell as designated midifeld cover - probably Bundee because he has played more at 12 and with more combinations inside and out. Conway or Larmour for the designated back three cover but neither have looked great at 15. So that leaves one utility player who could play centre or back three. Will Addison is the obvious choice but his injury record could rule against him, who else is there - Sammy Arnold! Carbery could have covered 15, but with a doubt over him could Schmidt go a bit left field and bring back Zebo!

The most substituted and attritional position in the RWC is prop, because players can't easily switch roles. The most logical breakdown of the forwards would be to take 3 players for each front row position, 3 locks, 5 backrow and one player who could play either 2nd or backrow.

If Farrell was to be named at 12 again Aki should start to worry.

If another 10 should get injured do you think Joe would call up paddy Jackson?

Cooney belham and Haley all cut from the squad

Don't think dropping cooney is a good idea myself

carpet baboon wrote:If another 10 should get injured do you think Joe would call up paddy Jackson?

Nope.
Not for the reasons the usual virtue signalers would shout from the rooftops though, only because the policy of not selecting players based outside of Ireland should remain adhered to. It's for that reason that Zebo isn't about to get a recall anytime soon so neither would Jackson or Madigan.

Anyway it's the RWC, it wouldn't be Ireland if we got a few injuries that leave us severely weakened in key areas. I watch the necessary evil that is the warm up games from behind the sofa sometimes. It's the only way to prepare for the tournament but we've been so unlucky in the past in that respect.

profitius wrote:That's comical. The WRU spend a fortune sending their players up the Swiss alps while the IRFU use bin liners.

I hope those bin liners are decomposable! Don't want a Climate Change controversy for the IRFU just on the eve of the World Cup!

carpet baboon wrote:Don't think dropping cooney is a good idea myself

I thought he would be 3rd choice 9 and 10.

I wonder if Carbery getting hurt has made him think he needs a third no 10 now

Brendan wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:Don't think dropping cooney is a good idea myself

I thought he would be 3rd choice 9 and 10.

I wonder if Carbery getting hurt has made him think he needs a third no 10 now

The rumour I have heard is carty will be 3rd flyhalf and emergency 9 cover
Has he played 9?

carpet baboon wrote:

Brendan wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:Don't think dropping cooney is a good idea myself

I thought he would be 3rd choice 9 and 10.

I wonder if Carbery getting hurt has made him think he needs a third no 10 now

The rumour I have heard is carty will be 3rd flyhalf and emergency 9 cover
Has he played 9?

Yes sounds like with Carbury's injury they will go with an extra 10.

McGrath and Marmion potentially scrapping over one spot.

Only going with two 9s is a daft idea.
It is literally too specialised and pivotal to risk a rookie player. If Murray picks up a niggle (or a 1 game ban), he will have to be replaced in the squad or else risk Carty carrying the scrumhalf role in say a quarter final!
If Carbery is dodgy as a 10, then Carty is covering 10 and needs to stand in for Sexton to keep him in prime shape.
Picking only four fit halfbacks for the plane is stupid.

Well I suppose the issue is that Sexton has reached the point were he needs to be managed. He won't play all the pool games and even then he won't do 80 min.

Carbury is out for 6 weeks so won't be available for the initial pool matches so that could mean starting Cooney at 10.

In either case it is a risk.

I wonder if they are considering one less outside back, or back rower.

Well Doussain debuted in the RWC final at 9 and Parra played 10 and almost won it in NZ. If the French can do it....

I wouldnt really care if Devin Toner plays scrum half if we make it to a semi.

Making a semi is a low bar

ebop wrote:Making a semi is a low bar

Never mind a semi I'd be happy if we won half the warm ups.

NOT if you're under it! And we Irish are always found under a bar at some point during the course of good night's drinking.... *hiccup!*

ebop wrote:Making a semi is a low bar

Its not if you havent made one before

rodders wrote:

ebop wrote:Making a semi is a low bar

Never mind a semi I'd be happy if we won half the warm ups.

First ya gotta be warmed up. Judging by our first game, I'd say Portugal will only get those players up to about minus 7 Celsius. It's going in the right direction I suppose. Minus 3 by the time they hit Japan.

rodders wrote:Well I suppose the issue is that Sexton has reached the point were he needs to be managed. He won't play all the pool games and even then he won't do 80 min.

Carbury is out for 6 weeks so won't be available for the initial pool matches so that could mean starting Cooney at 10.

In either case it is a risk.

I wonder if they are considering one less outside back, or back rower.

Taking an unfit Carbery means Sexton will get a higher workload in the pools. Who is the pool cover for Sexton/Carty - Kearney or Murray?
If Carbery is going to be a passenger for the majority of the RWC, the wisdom of taking him at all has to be questioned. It increases the risk to Sexton/Murray and he will be match unfit even when he does get back.

Getting close now. Anyone heading over?

rodders wrote:

ebop wrote:Making a semi is a low bar

Never mind a semi I'd be happy if we won half the warm ups.

Id say we will lose them both in Wales and England but I wouldnt be too concerned if we did.