Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[super_realist]

First topic message reminder :

Will Alec Baldwin go to jail for the manslaughter of that lady on the filmset under American law or is it considered an industrial accident?

Doesnt seem like he's in trouble just yet. How do you kill someone with a prop gun that fires blanks?

Edit: https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/prop-gun-using-blanks-still-052227936.html

"As for the question of criminal responsibility, that’s for law enforcement to investigate. But it must be noted that in the vast majority of cases, the person who pulled the trigger wasn’t remotely at fault. They were handed a prop and assured it would function normally — and it didn’t."

Guns dont kill people, rappers do.

[beninho]

I've been to PP World, 3 times I think. Last time a few weeks back. Luckily the kids at 4 and 7 realised the rest of Paultons Park with shorter queues and faster rides was now more fun for them. But log flumes in late October are cold!!

[beninho]

Working class dementia tax. That could catch on.

[pedro]

I wonder if people can remember it.

[beninho]

I know we've done the refugees dying in the channell before, but if the issue is stopping the deaths, and stopping the gangs sending people to their deaths, as the pm and home secretary say. We shoukd set up a way to transport people who want to make asylum claims, or change the law so that asylum claims don't have to be made in the UK.

That's if the concern is the people dying.

[JAS]

I know we've done the refugees dying in the channell before, but if the issue is stopping the deaths, and stopping the gangs sending people to their deaths, as the pm and home secretary say. We shoukd set up a way to transport people who want to make asylum claims, or change the law so that asylum claims don't have to be made in the UK.

That's if the concern is the people dying.

The narrative does seem to be gradually shifting from demonising the migrants to demonising the traffickers and not before time. However the traffickers only exist where there's a market so if you want to follow the problem to it's source...financing, promoting and wading in to unwinnable wars in the desert should do the trick. That however is done and cant be undone (although we can refrain from continuing). So it's all very well clamping down hard and I mean bloody HARD on the traffickers (and I hope they do) but beyond that there has to be some coherent alternative to make those people not want to migrate.

[super_realist]

Why don't the UK and France, Belgium, Netherlands etc set up asylum seeking processing centres in these countries?

Then, if they are genuine and not just economic migrants, they can have their cases reviewed and processed and if they are genuine they can come to this country by safe means, and if not, they are rejected and anyone found in the channel is returned to their point of origin.
Surely even the bleeding heart lefties would approve of that?

[beninho]

Why don't the UK and France, Belgium, Netherlands etc set up asylum seeking processing centres in these countries?

Then, if they are genuine and not just economic migrants, they can have their cases reviewed and processed and if they are genuine they can come to this country by safe means, and if not, they are rejected and anyone found in the channel is returned to their point of origin.
Surely even the bleeding heart lefties would approve of that?

That's sort of what I said. Change the laws so that asylum doesn't have to be granted in the UK and arrange safe passage to anyone wanting to claim asylum.

I think we lost the ability to return to a previous country though after brexit.

I woukd guess it would be very expensive for the UK to set up and run asylum claims from other EU countries.

[beninho]

But other then setting up ways to claim from other countries! We shoukd ensure that anyone wanting to come to the UK has safe passage to claim without the need to go to gangs and on rafts.

[super_realist]

But other then setting up ways to claim from other countries! We shoukd ensure that anyone wanting to come to the UK has safe passage to claim without the need to go to gangs and on rafts.

"Anyone wanting to come to the UK?

You only get to come here if you meet certain criteria, you don't just get to come here because "you want to"

How about first establishing WHY they want to come here, then find out whether their claim and supporting evidence merits admission?

We didnt lose ability to deport after Brexit. Norway and Switzerland can deport, its just that Britain is too soft. 100% of channel migrants, whether legitimate or economic has been allowed to stay. Thats the problem, and thats why they keep coming.

[dynamark]

in general agreement with all said but how hard can it be to patrol about 25 miles of coastline .Some of it must be unsuitable for the boats some too busy cant be a lot left to keep an eye on im concluding the french dont care a jot if they want to put out to sea let them

[beninho]

But other then setting up ways to claim from other countries! We shoukd ensure that anyone wanting to come to the UK has safe passage to claim without the need to go to gangs and on rafts.

"Anyone wanting to come to the UK?

You only get to come here if you meet certain criteria, you don't just get to come here because "you want to"

How about first establishing WHY they want to come here, then find out whether their claim and supporting evidence merits admission?

We didnt lose ability to deport after Brexit. Norway and Switzerland can deport, its just that Britain is too soft. 100% of channel migrants, whether legitimate or economic has been allowed to stay. Thats the problem, and thats why they keep coming.

If you want to claim asylum in the UK you have the right to claim asylum in the UK. So, either we set something up to accept asylum claims from outside the UK, or we arrange safe passage for those wishing to make an asylum claim in the UK. And that stops the need for the gangs sending people on rafts to their deaths.

We can deport if the asylum claim is turned down lawfully, but the government have been pretty shoddy on that. I see it at work, they just tell people you have no recourse and leave them to vanish into the country. We have lost the ability to return to another EU state regarding adylum claims though.

[super_realist]

Are you so naive to think most of these people arent economc migrants?

What sort of idiot would rather live in Britain than France, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, Austria, Sweden, Finland, Denmark etc?

[beninho]

Well 17million in the uk voted to give up their freedom to move and live in many other countries.

[super_realist]

Well 17million in the uk voted to give up their freedom to move and live in many other countries.

No they didnt. Brexit doesnt mean you cant go and work in the EU anymore. There might be a bit more paperwork, but you can still go and work in Europe. You really should stop reading The Guardian and watching the BBC

[Duty281]

in general agreement with all said but how hard can it be to patrol about 25 miles of coastline .Some of it must be unsuitable for the boats some too busy cant be a lot left to keep an eye on im concluding the french dont care a jot if they want to put out to sea let them

It's about 125 miles now.

[super_realist]

Wonder why they aren't sailing the Straits of Gibraltar to Morocco?

[JuliusHMarx]

Are you so naive to think most of these people arent economc migrants?

What sort of idiot would rather live in Britain than France, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, Austria, Sweden, Finland, Denmark etc?

There is research on this if you search for it. One reason is that they have some English language knowledge, so they prefer a country where they can at least communicate. Another is that they believe (rightly or wrongly) that there are more employment opportunities in the UK, and they are mostly trying to get work to earn an honest living.

[super_realist]

Yeah, because the standard of English is so bad in Germany, Sweden, Finland, Denmark etc isnt it? Anyway, Germany has taken 1.3million immigrants, so their lack of German clearly isnt a reason. Therefore Britain speaking the English language clearly isnt that important given English is so widely spoken across Europe

I thought they were supposed to be coming to claim asylum, not to get a job.

[JuliusHMarx]

I'm telling you the reasons they give. We all know you like to disparage those worse off than yourself with sweeping generalizations, given that you do it on such a regular basis.

[beninho]

Well 17million in the uk voted to give up their freedom to move and live in many other countries.

No they didnt. Brexit doesnt mean you cant go and work in the EU anymore. There might be a bit more paperwork, but you can still go and work in Europe.  You really should stop reading The Guardian and watching the BBC

With visas?

We had freedom to live and work in Europe, visa free. People voted that they didn't want that freedom. Its pretty straightforward.

[super_realist]

So whats the problem? Its not hard ton get a visa.

[beninho]

Yeah, because the standard of English is so bad in Germany, Sweden, Finland, Denmark etc isnt it? Anyway, Germany has taken 1.3million immigrants, so their lack of German clearly isnt a reason. Therefore Britain speaking the English language clearly isnt that important given English is so widely spoken across Europe

I thought they were supposed to be coming to claim asylum, not to get a job.

That last sentence is one of the most stupid things I've ever read.

[super_realist]

I'm telling you the reasons they give. We all know you like to disparage those worse off than yourself with sweeping generalizations, given that you do it on such a regular basis.

And ive just told you that their reasons they give dont hold water.

[beninho]

So whats the problem? Its not hard ton get a visa.

It's a hell of a lot harder then not needing one. Obviously.

[JuliusHMarx]

I'm telling you the reasons they give. We all know you like to disparage those worse off than yourself with sweeping generalizations, given that you do it on such a regular basis.

And ive just told you that their reasons they give dont hold water.

And I get bored dealing with miserable people who lead miserable lives.

[dynamark]

Its only a few miles of accessible coastline to keep an eye on if you go 15 miles either side of calais the sea crossing becomes 45 miles plus not doable.The frogs dont care and everyone on the boats is illegal and obviously very very desperate to hit UK for some reason which is not very likely to be because their granny lives in merthyr tydfil.

[JuliusHMarx]

If anyone is genuinely interested here's 2 links
https://inews.co.uk/news/migrants-why-come-uk-refugees-crossing-channel-leave-france-explained-1318651

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2021/11/25/do-migrants-risk-lives-english-channel-staying-france/

Alternatively we can just call them a bunch of freeloading foreign losers and call Lewis Hamilton a scumbag for good measure.

[JAS]

Are you so naive to think most of these people arent economc migrants?

What sort of idiot would rather live in Britain than France, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, Austria, Sweden, Finland, Denmark etc?

People move around the world for a whole myriad of reasons, Primary ones being fleeing war, famine, persecution or a mix of the above, undoubtedly there will will also be some that take a view that their life chances economic or otherwise would be best served in a different country to the one in which they are living (many Brits emigrated to the US, Canada, Australia etc for a better life). So let me just check this...do you think economic migration is wrong? Also, because others may have a different view than you of the motivations  & driving factors behind people making a migration journey... that somehow makes them naive...seriously?? Stop trying to binary-ise the argument, you know fine well it's a lot more complicated than that.

Incidentally have we stumbled on the reason why you detest organised religion so much?...Because one of the central stories is about a middle eastern family desperately seeking safe refuge from persecution in order to have their baby safely and give it better life chances?

[McLaren]

Super

It must really bother you that the RNLI are more than happy to rescue these people.

https://twitter.com/RNLI/status/1420319266746871834

[beninho]

https://twitter.com/AliBunkallSKY/status/1464289035917086725?t=4wu19MEJJYTuhMSPyob_oA&s=19

She wanted to come to the UK to join her fiance, not sure where this fits on the super Realist valid reason chart

[McLaren]

Ben

Super is an incel. They have weird views on hot woman. Will be interesting to see how he responds to this.

[JAS]

Ben

Super is an incel. They have weird views on hot woman. Will be interesting to see how he responds to this.

I'm guessing no Super response until the subject changes

I've often pondered what makes some people tick in terms of their anti immigration stance. I've previously lurched in and out of the the thinking that actually the UK economy cant cope with more people in terms of infrastructure...housing, schools, GP access etc but actually thinking it all through... All of that has FA to do with immigration and ALL to do with a government's capability to provision all of those basics at a high level befitting of the worlds 5-6th richest democracy.
Of course if we're governed by a bunch who believe state provision is a repulsive idea, it's much easier for them not to plan a better state capable of serving a higher population and resort instead to whipping up a Nationalistic agenda and let division breed!!

Could the UK theoretically support a higher population density? Theoretically of course it could, there are countries out there that are more economically successful than us with higher population densities than us. In practical terms, it may mean short term pain i.e. if we went from 68m to say 75m you could bet your bottom dollar no Conservative government EVER would build the commensurate amount of extra schools, hospitals, housing, roads and recruit the required doctors nurses teachers & policemen that such a population expansion would require. The irony is though that a population increase should generate exactly the kind of economic activity and prosperity that anti immigration zealots say would be destroyed by more people coming in.

[super_realist]

https://twitter.com/AliBunkallSKY/status/1464289035917086725?t=4wu19MEJJYTuhMSPyob_oA&s=19

She wanted to come to the UK to join her fiance, not sure where this fits on the super Realist valid reason chart

Why didnt her repulsive fiance come to meet her in France and go through a proper application process instead of disgracefully allowing (and presumably) encouraging her to enter the UK by dangerous and illegal means? What sort of disgusting and immoral man would ever sanction that?

In terms of immigration JAS, it seems the left (Guardian reading left rather than centre left) cant distinguish between legal, managed immigration, and illegal migrants. They seem to think if youre against illegal immigration, then it means you are against all immigration, which isnt the case. Ive never heard anyone say they are against all immigration, not even Farage.

[beninho]

I've not seen many people who don't have issues with illegal immigrants and valid deportations. Maybe super Realist can provide us with these lefties who are pro illegal immigration?

[JAS]

https://twitter.com/AliBunkallSKY/status/1464289035917086725?t=4wu19MEJJYTuhMSPyob_oA&s=19

She wanted to come to the UK to join her fiance, not sure where this fits on the super Realist valid reason chart

Why didnt her repulsive fiance come to meet her in France and go through a proper application process instead of disgracefully allowing (and presumably) encouraging her to enter the UK by dangerous and illegal means? What sort of disgusting and immoral man would ever sanction that?

In terms of immigration JAS, it seems the left (Guardian reading left rather than centre left) cant distinguish between legal, managed immigration, and illegal migrants. They seem to think if youre against illegal immigration, then it means you are against all immigration, which isnt the case. Ive never heard anyone say they are against all immigration, not even Farage.

Farage, although a tad odious, is a fairly astute political operator and knows how to poke the anti immigration bear whilst simultaneously distancing himself from the more extreme elements of it.

What your'e describing that the Left cant distinguish is EXACTLY what the right deliberately try and muddy the water on. Why do they do it?...Simples...there's votes in it and lots of 'em.

[beninho]

Unfortunately a lot of people think that people crossing the channel to claim asylum are illegal immigrants. That people think that shows, that people will always choose to believe what they want rather then what is true.

[beninho]

https://twitter.com/luckyma_man/status/1464510309402562560?t=_jC0DMUbLStLkUTY-yRRGw&s=19

I'm pretty sure I don't like Jon Gaunt, but I do like him calling out the stupidity of Wooton and Fox for getting get up over a tesco add with Santa getting a vax.

[JuliusHMarx]

https://twitter.com/AliBunkallSKY/status/1464289035917086725?t=4wu19MEJJYTuhMSPyob_oA&s=19

She wanted to come to the UK to join her fiance, not sure where this fits on the super Realist valid reason chart

Why didnt her repulsive fiance come to meet her in France and go through a proper application process instead of disgracefully allowing (and presumably) encouraging her to enter the UK by dangerous and illegal means? What sort of disgusting and immoral man would ever sanction that?

Headline - Super in 'insults person he's never met without knowing the facts' shock!
Harry and Meghan and Lewis, oh my!

[super_realist]

https://twitter.com/AliBunkallSKY/status/1464289035917086725?t=4wu19MEJJYTuhMSPyob_oA&s=19

She wanted to come to the UK to join her fiance, not sure where this fits on the super Realist valid reason chart

Why didnt her repulsive fiance come to meet her in France and go through a proper application process instead of disgracefully allowing (and presumably) encouraging her to enter the UK by dangerous and illegal means? What sort of disgusting and immoral man would ever sanction that?

Headline - Super in 'insults person he's never met without knowing the facts' shock!
Harry and Meghan and Lewis, oh my!

You defend someone without knowing the facts. QED.

[super_realist]

Unfortunately a lot of people think that people crossing the channel to claim asylum are illegal immigrants. That people think that shows, that people will always choose to believe what they want rather then what is true.

They are illegal. Entering a country without the requisite paoerwork is illegal.
Got any evidence theyvare all genuine? Why are the trafiikers encouraging them to destroy their papers to idwntofy that they dojt come from war torn countries?

[super_realist]

I've not seen many people who don't have issues with illegal immigrants and valid deportations. Maybe super Realist can provide us with these lefties who are pro illegal immigration?  

You seem to he in favour of unfettered immigration.
You seem to be castigating people who are against illegal immigration and you seem to like to pretend that all migrants crossing the channel are legal, which is hilarious.

[JuliusHMarx]

https://twitter.com/AliBunkallSKY/status/1464289035917086725?t=4wu19MEJJYTuhMSPyob_oA&s=19

She wanted to come to the UK to join her fiance, not sure where this fits on the super Realist valid reason chart

Why didnt her repulsive fiance come to meet her in France and go through a proper application process instead of disgracefully allowing (and presumably) encouraging her to enter the UK by dangerous and illegal means? What sort of disgusting and immoral man would ever sanction that?

Headline - Super in 'insults person he's never met without knowing the facts' shock!
Harry and Meghan and Lewis, oh my!

You defend someone without knowing the facts. QED.

Show me where I defended anyone.
I'm not so full of bile that I rush to judge anyone. Having said that, there are some circumstances where there is considerable evidence to have a good idea whether someone is repulsive or not.

[super_realist]

Super

It must really bother you that the RNLI are more than happy to rescue these people.

https://twitter.com/RNLI/status/1420319266746871834

Whi says they're happy?

[super_realist]

Super

It must really bother you that the RNLI are more than happy to rescue these people.

https://twitter.com/RNLI/status/1420319266746871834

Whi says they're happy?

By the way, the RNLI shouldnt have to rely on charity

[beninho]

Unfortunately a lot of people think that people crossing the channel to claim asylum are illegal immigrants. That people think that shows, that people will always choose to believe what they want rather then what is true.

They are illegal. Entering a country without the requisite paoerwork is illegal.
Got any evidence theyvare all genuine? Why are the trafiikers encouraging them to destroy their papers to idwntofy that they dojt come from war torn countries?

Oh, you think its illegal to enter a country to claim asylum. If you can point me somewhere that shows that's correct, I'm all in. Alas its not.

I do t care if they are all genuine, that's the decision of the home office. If they deem soneone to not be genuine they have rules and regulations to follow.

You do t really think claiming asylum is illegal do you? Your just trying to be funny?

[beninho]

I've not seen many people who don't have issues with illegal immigrants and valid deportations. Maybe super Realist can provide us with these lefties who are pro illegal immigration?  

You seem to he in favour of unfettered immigration.
You seem to be castigating people who are against illegal immigration and you seem to like to pretend that all migrants crossing the channel are legal, which is hilarious.

Well, that's all a load of bollix. Pretty funny though.

[super_realist]

Unfortunately a lot of people think that people crossing the channel to claim asylum are illegal immigrants. That people think that shows, that people will always choose to believe what they want rather then what is true.

They are illegal. Entering a country without the requisite paoerwork is illegal.
Got any evidence theyvare all genuine? Why are the trafiikers encouraging them to destroy their papers to idwntofy that they dojt come from war torn countries?

Oh, you think its illegal to enter a country to claim asylum. If you can point me somewhere that shows that's correct, I'm all in. Alas its not.

I do t care if they are all genuine, that's the decision of the home office. If they deem soneone to not be genuine they have rules and regulations to follow.

You do t really think claiming asylum is illegal do you? Your just trying to be funny?

I didnt claim that seeking asylim was illegal, i said crossing the channel is illegal. Claiming asylum when you arent eligible is fraud. Isnt fraud illegal?
Why havent they claimed asylum in the safe country they are already in?

[beninho]

I do not belive crossing the channel to claim asylum is illegal.

I dont think anyone has been arrested and sentenced for having an asylum claim refused, I'd be surprised if its actually a criminal offence?

The third point is just irrelevant, as you can choose to claim asylum where you want. Hence, it should be made easier and safer.

[McLaren]

Super

Was this you?

https://www.hastingsobserver.co.uk/news/people/hastings-rnli-lifeboat-crew-blocked-from-going-out-to-sea-by-people-angry-at-them-rescuing-refugees-3475179

[JuliusHMarx]

Super

Was this you?

https://www.hastingsobserver.co.uk/news/people/hastings-rnli-lifeboat-crew-blocked-from-going-out-to-sea-by-people-angry-at-them-rescuing-refugees-3475179

We need a picture of the protestors. If any of them were fat I suspect super would have refused to join them.

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