Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[beninho]

First topic message reminder :

It does seem that this cat video is pretty old. But, also oeople seem more upset about it then say, Chelsea having a player who killed someone when he was drink driving.

We are a nation of animal lovers, my mum was all in on Romanian rescue dogs, not so keen on Romanian people.
,

[beninho]

I think everyone needs to be vaccinated, and everyone should have a yearly booster, like the kids with flu jabs. I had a flu jab this year.

I find it hard to think that after all this time, peopke still only think about the impact on the person catching the virus.

My whole family were fine, but my sister was pretty rough. If my kids have some level of protection that means she is less at risk from them, im all in for it.

Just common sense really.

[super_realist]

Ok then clever clogs, what figure of daily covid infections come from people NOT coming into contact with others with covid?

Seems like you're scraping the barrel.

[superflyweight]

Not how it works though is it, you don't have to be in direct contact with a vulnerable person to increase their risk of getting covid. It's a chain reaction and if you break a couple of those chains then the vulnerable are suddenly at less risk.

Really, what data have you got for people transmitting covid to people they arent in contact with?
If youre in the vulnerable group, perhaps take precautions to mitigate your risk better

You know, it's odd. I've never been to Wuhan or met anyone from there, but I had Covid a couple of months ago. I can't work out how it happened.

[super_realist]

I think everyone needs to be vaccinated, and everyone should have a yearly booster, like the kids with flu jabs. I had a flu jab this year.

I find it hard to think that after all this time, peopke still only think about the impact on the person catching the virus.

My whole family were fine, but my sister was pretty rough.  If my kids have some level of protection that means she is less at risk from them, im all in for it.

Just common sense really.

I generally agree just not with the word "need"

[Pal Joey]

Do you think a child NEEDS to be vaccinated?

Only for Hep B, diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis (whooping cough), polio, pneumococcal, measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox, rotavirus and haemophilus influenzae type b.

[super_realist]

Not how it works though is it, you don't have to be in direct contact with a vulnerable person to increase their risk of getting covid. It's a chain reaction and if you break a couple of those chains then the vulnerable are suddenly at less risk.

Really, what data have you got for people transmitting covid to people they arent in contact with?
If youre in the vulnerable group, perhaps take precautions to mitigate your risk better

You know, it's odd.  I've never been to Wuhan or met anyone from there, but I had Covid a couple of months ago.  I can't work out how it happened.  

Jesus, isnt it time for the vulnerable to take a bit more responsibility?

[super_realist]

I think everyone needs to be vaccinated, and everyone should have a yearly booster, like the kids with flu jabs. I had a flu jab this year.

I find it hard to think that after all this time, peopke still only think about the impact on the person catching the virus.

My whole family were fine, but my sister was pretty rough.  If my kids have some level of protection that means she is less at risk from them, im all in for it.

Just common sense really.

How do you mean rough?

[beninho]

I think everyone needs to be vaccinated, and everyone should have a yearly booster, like the kids with flu jabs. I had a flu jab this year.

I find it hard to think that after all this time, peopke still only think about the impact on the person catching the virus.

My whole family were fine, but my sister was pretty rough.  If my kids have some level of protection that means she is less at risk from them, im all in for it.

Just common sense really.

How do you mean rough?

Not to rough to be hospitalised, but rough enough to be bed bound. In comparison to my family who had nothing. And in all likelihood, she had the mild strain of omicron, or so they say. But, she has been through cancer twice, and still has monthly chemo. I'd like my family to do what we can to protect her where possible. In fact ud like everyone to do so but people can be idiots.

[super_realist]

We are at herd immunity now statistically and the virus is endemic so I dont really think theres really much more we can do.

Can sympathise with your sisters supressed immune system having lost a dear relative through cancer last year.

[JAS]

Why don't kids need to have a yearly flu spray, or a covid jab?

In terms of Covid, they dont need a vaccine because as children simply arent affected by it to any serious degree.

The only reason you might be able to make is that they have underlying health issues, are obese or live with or are in contact with vulnerable people, but for healthy children, they don't "need" a covid jab for their own health.

Not sure what the data says about flu, but respiratory illnesses generally arent a concern for them.

Do you think a child NEEDS to be vaccinated?

I’m sure I made this point last week but I’ll repeat. Purely on an individual basis only considering the child and the risks to the child…unless the child is classed as clinical vulnerable…probably not. Scientists brief however is lot wider than considering the risks to each of individual child, they have to consider the risks to society as a whole and yes part of that are a few wilful vaccine objectionists who hell mend them if they catch it. However there ARE still fully vaccinated clinically vulnerable people out there who WILL still be at risk and it must clearly still be the JCVIs overall judgement that that risk can be mitigated sufficiently by jabbing kids.

[beninho]

Can we reach herd immunity if kids don't be vaccinated?

[super_realist]

7 day average of 26 deaths. Time to move on.

[JAS]

Not how it works though is it, you don't have to be in direct contact with a vulnerable person to increase their risk of getting covid. It's a chain reaction and if you break a couple of those chains then the vulnerable are suddenly at less risk.

Really, what data have you got for people transmitting covid to people they arent in contact with?
If youre in the vulnerable group, perhaps take precautions to mitigate your risk better

You know, it's odd.  I've never been to Wuhan or met anyone from there, but I had Covid a couple of months ago.  I can't work out how it happened.  

Jesus, isnt it time for the vulnerable to take a bit more responsibility?

I’m pretty sure Superfly ain’t Jesus, we’ll I don’t think so, but more importantly isn’t it time to encourage EVERYONE to have a bit more personal responsibility and consideration for others.

I have to say your attitude absolutely reeks of “me first, I care about me and nobody else infact fxxx everybody else if it’s going to in anyway diminish my personal freedoms”.
That might well not be how you think but it’s certainly the way you come across.

[superflyweight]

Not how it works though is it, you don't have to be in direct contact with a vulnerable person to increase their risk of getting covid. It's a chain reaction and if you break a couple of those chains then the vulnerable are suddenly at less risk.

Really, what data have you got for people transmitting covid to people they arent in contact with?
If youre in the vulnerable group, perhaps take precautions to mitigate your risk better

You know, it's odd.  I've never been to Wuhan or met anyone from there, but I had Covid a couple of months ago.  I can't work out how it happened.  

Jesus, isnt it time for the vulnerable to take a bit more responsibility?

I’m pretty sure Superfly ain’t Jesus, we’ll I don’t think so, but more importantly isn’t it time to encourage EVERYONE to have a bit more personal responsibility and consideration for others.

I have to say your attitude absolutely reeks of “me first, I care about me and nobody else infact fxxx everybody else if it’s going to in anyway diminish my personal freedoms”.
That might well not be how you think but it’s certainly the way you come across.

I would have refused to carry my own cross. What's the worst they could have done? Crucify me?

[McLaren]

Super

I get the feeling for you this isn't really about kids getting the vaccine but what kids having (or being advised ) to get the vaccine implies about what the wider covid response should still be. You seem very anti lockdown or other liberty "inhibiting" measures and I think you know that if it is still serious enough to require kids to get vaccinated then you worry that at some point those measures might have to be taken again. Or you at least can't flippantly brush of covid as normal endemic virus that we don't need to worry about.

[beninho]

My herd immunity query is, the numbers for it, I've seen range from around 70%. If we have over 20% of the population being under 16, you will struggle with it, if kids aren't all vaccinated.

Also, we do t know how long immunity lasts after a bout of covid.

[dynamark]

Parents have the say re their children so theres the end to it even when it is available.
Covid was horrid but so was Chickenpox and a good dose of flu .We have found ways to vaccinate and mitigate and the one thing I would like to think we will see is folk taking a bit more charge over their own health and welfare .weight fitness smoking etc but maybe not

[beninho]

Shane Warne dying, is genuinely shocking.

[dynamark]

Yes but

[super_realist]

Shane Warne dying, is genuinely shocking.

Not really, he has a reputation as a hell raiser.

[super_realist]

My herd immunity query is, the numbers for it, I've seen range from around 70%. If we have over 20% of the population being under 16, you will struggle with it, if kids aren't all vaccinated.

Also, we do t know how long immunity lasts after a bout of covid.

The majority of kids have had covid, and thus as naturally aquired antibodies are preferable to vaccine acquired antibodies, bobs your uncle.
As its been suggested that up to 30% of infections among the vulnerable is acquired in hospitals, may I suggest you start your campaign there?

[super_realist]

Super

I get the feeling for you this isn't really about kids getting the vaccine but what kids having (or being advised ) to get the vaccine implies about what the wider covid response should still be. You seem very anti lockdown or other liberty "inhibiting" measures and I think you know that if it is still serious enough to require kids to get vaccinated then you worry that at some point those measures might have to be taken again. Or you at least can't flippantly brush of covid as normal endemic virus that we don't need to worry about.

Im anti measures that demonstrably are ineffective or that measures we may have taken are the ONLY "science"
For example it has been shown that vaccine passports are a waste of time, theres virtually zero evidence that face masks in real life make any substantial difference, its not great for kids to have been off school, its not a good idea to chop the bottoms off doors for ventilation etc.

I can understand that we went into lockdown originally, despite it being against WHO and UK pandemic response protocol. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but so much nonsesne aroynd like rule of six, not being allowed to travel more than 5k to go for a walk etc had no evodence to suport they were effective in any way, being allowed tongather in thousands, providing its for the woke agenda etc

Furthermore, much of the policy has been political as we have seen from Herr Sturgeon and Kim Jong Drakeford

[JuliusHMarx]

Shocking news - Keith Richards is still alive.

[incontinentia]

Shane Warne dying, is genuinely shocking.

I'd be more shocked if he didn't die

[McLaren]

[incontinentia]

Thanks for those data McLaren.

I'm guessing quality of food/dietary habitats of citizens would be the main determinant for that outcome?

[super_realist]

Thanks for those data McLaren.

I'm guessing quality of food/dietary habitats of citizens would be the main determinant for that outcome?

Not just diet. Americans will not walk anywhere plus many people just cant afford medical treatment so peg it early.
Backwards nation

[incontinentia]

Thanks for those data McLaren.

I'm guessing quality of food/dietary habitats of citizens would be the main determinant for that outcome?

Not just diet. Americans will not walk anywhere plus many people just cant afford medical treatment so peg it early.
Backwards nation

Main determinant.

Backward in terms of social policy maybe, but the extreme capitalism has benefitted the world in terms of tech innovation and such.

[Soul Requiem]

Thanks for those data McLaren.

I'm guessing quality of food/dietary habitats of citizens would be the main determinant for that outcome?

Not just diet. Americans will not walk anywhere plus many people just cant afford medical treatment so peg it early.
Backwards nation

Main determinant.

Backward in terms of social policy maybe, but the extreme capitalism has benefitted the world in terms of tech innovation and such.

If you view tech innovation as a real world benefit, I personally consider it a hindrance to society.

[super_realist]

Thanks for those data McLaren.

I'm guessing quality of food/dietary habitats of citizens would be the main determinant for that outcome?

Not just diet. Americans will not walk anywhere plus many people just cant afford medical treatment so peg it early.
Backwards nation

Main determinant.

Backward in terms of social policy maybe, but the extreme capitalism has benefitted the world in terms of tech innovation and such.

Backwards in many ways, not just health.

[incontinentia]

Thanks for those data McLaren.

I'm guessing quality of food/dietary habitats of citizens would be the main determinant for that outcome?

Not just diet. Americans will not walk anywhere plus many people just cant afford medical treatment so peg it early.
Backwards nation

Main determinant.

Backward in terms of social policy maybe, but the extreme capitalism has benefitted the world in terms of tech innovation and such.

If you view tech innovation as a real world benefit, I personally consider it a hindrance to society.

I would actually agree with you a lot there, but its a not black and white issue. Tech innovation has created a lot of unhappiness in the world, but advances in medicine for example have hugely improved people's lives.

Even though I disagree with his use of violence to get his point across, Ted Kaczynski/The Unabomber makes some excellent points on this matter.

[super_realist]

Technology has largely been a huge benefit to society, but I dont think much of it is purely down to America. Modern technology is very much a collaborative effort.

[JAS]

My own view is that it’s all about life chances and life choices for the MAJORITY of the population and the way America and us and a few others have evolved over the past 40 years has skewed the rich v poor dynamic and made it more extreme. There’s now a cluster of top earners who’ve earned/acquired so much money they can afford an effin moon mission ffs whilst at the other end, the size of the poverty pool has grown such that it’s now beginning to show on charts like the one Mac has shared.
Let’s be honest we look at Russia and think, look at how their society has changed since the fall of communism, a bunch of elite crooks are running the country, hoarding all the wealth and stashing it away in remote tax havens, Thank goodness that wouldn’t happen here….oh wait!!
So it just goes to show, whether it’s Capitalism, communism or something more palatable in between it’s not the ideology that’s the problem, it’s the elite at the top with all the power and wealth losing touch with reality and the society that grew them into the monsters they become.

We all get stuck on the ultra divisive left v right (including me when in reality if we all adopted a tough on greed and corruption, tough on the causes of greed and corruption the world would start moving to a better place, The second you excuse greed and corruption is the point at which a cohesive and fair society starts to lose. People don’t need to be greedy to be prosperous, if they do then they’re doing something wrong.

[super_realist]

You need to stop crowing about bloody capitalism especially when you are a benificiary and advocate of it. There will always be an elite, just as there was under communism. Putin is the richest man in the world, would you rather live in an authoritarian society like his or one like ours when you can go out and make your own way?

Also, just because someone is ultra wealthy, doesnt necessarily mean they are greedy and it doesnt mean that looking after the poorest in society is their responsibility.
Give me capitalism over communism any day.

[incontinentia]

Technology has largely been a huge benefit to society, but I dont think much of it is purely down to America. Modern technology is very much a collaborative effort.

I think a lot of depression, psychological pain and social problems are down to how society has changed since the industrial revolution. We evolved through millions of years to be in tight-knit tribes and communities, and in the last few hundred we have been forced to be more isolated and part of a societal machine that treats people of factors of production/consumption rather than human beings.

[super_realist]

Not buying that. We still are in tight knit "tribes"
Humans have also only really been around for 200,000 years so not sure where you get your millions of years from.

[Galted]

Humans have also only really been around for 200,000 years so not sure where you get your millions of years from.

Time for another Keith Richards joke.

[incontinentia]

Not buying that. We still are in tight knit "tribes"
Humans have also only really been around for 200,000 years so not sure where you get your millions of years from.

Oh that's right, it was 200,000 years ago when apes suddenly morphed into modern day humans. Get up the yard will ya!

We don't live in tribes dude, we should be hanging out in big groups with our friends and families every day, going hunting and gathering. Not locked in an office/car or "working" from home just to be a cog in a machine that helps those at the top to purchase an extra yacht or ivory backscratcher.

[super_realist]

Im talking about how little of our DNA goes back to when we were neanderthals, apes goes back a lot longer than that and we have even less DNA shared with them.

We do live in "tribes", we live in families, have social circles, work in groups, have hugher population density than ever before etc.

Just because we evolved as hunter gatherers doesnt mean we were happier doing that. Would you rather live in a house with the life you have now or in a cave not knowing where your heat and food is coming from?
Why dont you get your "tribe" and go and hunt in Arizona. Oh right, it would be rubbish, thats why you dont do it.

[McLaren]

Super

As a White European you most likely literally have about 1-2% Neanderthal DNA.

Inco

You are veering into evo psych, which is a somewhat dodgy branch of "science".


Inco/super

As for the life expectancy vs healthcare costs graph I think it shows that the private healthcare insurance model is incredibly inefficient from a cost perspective and inhumane when it comes to access to healthcare. Your chances as an American of being able to afford the the level of healthcare that people take for granted in modern progressive nations are slim.

[incontinentia]

Im talking about how little of our DNA goes back to when we were neanderthals, apes goes back a lot longer than that and we have even less DNA shared with them.

We do live in "tribes", we live in families, have social circles, work in groups, have hugher population density than ever before etc.

Just because we evolved as hunter gatherers doesnt mean we were happier doing that. Would you rather live in a house with the life you have now or in a cave not knowing where your heat and food is coming from?
Why dont you get your "tribe" and go and hunt in Arizona. Oh right, it would be rubbish, thats why you dont do it.

We were never Neanderthals, they're a different species than humans. They inter-bred with humans and traces of their DNA can still be found in the human genome (or whatever its called).

I'm focusing on the social element of being in a tribe and the camaraderie/happiness that can come from overcoming adversity as part of a community. To us it seems terrible to live in a cave or be in fear of attack by wild animals, but who knows maybe overall our ancestors were happier? We developed a fight or flight response due to the conditions we evolved in, but now those conditions are largely gone and we live comfortable lives, but the response is still there but can't be satisfied and leads to widespread distress for many.

[dynamark]

Im assuming us tax rates overall may be lower if you need to have private health insurance.For us it is compulsory NHI but as we are seeing nowhere near perfect.We have done this to death but some sort of combination may be best. NHS will spend any amount of money if given the chance .Some talk today about a refund for private ops if the NHS cannot get the job done in the target time which seems on the face of it reasonable

[super_realist]

Im talking about how little of our DNA goes back to when we were neanderthals, apes goes back a lot longer than that and we have even less DNA shared with them.

We do live in "tribes", we live in families, have social circles, work in groups, have hugher population density than ever before etc.

Just because we evolved as hunter gatherers doesnt mean we were happier doing that. Would you rather live in a house with the life you have now or in a cave not knowing where your heat and food is coming from?
Why dont you get your "tribe" and go and hunt in Arizona. Oh right, it would be rubbish, thats why you dont do it.

We were never Neanderthals, they're a different species than humans. They inter-bred with humans and traces of their DNA can still be found in the human genome (or whatever its called).

I'm focusing on the social element of being in a tribe and the camaraderie/happiness that can come from overcoming adversity as part of a community. To us it seems terrible to live in a cave or be in fear of attack by wild animals, but who knows maybe overall our ancestors were happier? We developed a fight or flight response due to the conditions we evolved in, but now those conditions are largely gone and we live comfortable lives, but the response is still there but can't be satisfied and leads to widespread distress for many.

In what way arent we in a tribe and under what description are you claiming that tribes make us happy?
Seems to me youre just surmising that "wasnt it all great in the good old days? ", well no actually, it sounds miserable, but everything you attribute to a tribe is still part of our lives anyway.

To suggest we arent happy because you think we have lost "fight or flight" is ridiculous. We still have it, we just dont have sabre tooth tigers and other predators trying to eat us

[super_realist]

Im assuming us tax rates overall  may be lower if you need to have private health insurance.For us it is compulsory NHI but as we are seeing nowhere near perfect.We have done this to death but some  sort of combination may be best. NHS will spend any amount of money if given the chance .Some talk today about a refund for private ops if the NHS cannot get the job done in the target time which seems on the face of it reasonable

This is the hateful thing about the NHS, to many, esoecially the left it is on a pedastal and beyond criticism.
If you dare to criticise it, you get called a Trumpite and therefore must want it privatised.
It is not a choice between the NHS and the American model, there is every ither developed nations systems, most of which work better than the NHS.

If the NHS worked so well, other countries would have copied it, but none have. It clearly needs reform in some shape or form.

[incontinentia]

In what way arent we in a tribe and under what description are you claiming that tribes make us happy?

We no longer are part of a close knit community that relies on each other for our survival. Have you seen the film Apocalypto? That is tribe life (yes I know that example was brutally violent but the good parts of that life seem so good!). Instead of a community working together towards shared goals, nowadays its largely every man for himself and dog eat dog. Yes there are still communities but not as deeply ingrained as we evolved with.

To suggest we arent happy because you think we have lost "fight or flight" is ridiculous. We still have it, we just dont have sabre tooth tigers and other predators trying to eat us

I'm saying we evolved a fight or flight response and still have it, but that modern society (traffic, rat-race commuting, queues in the supermarket etc etc) triggers it very often but there is no release unless you go around punching people! The result is an epidemic of stress and associated misery.

Stress, anxiety, constant messages of impending doom from climate change/wars/pandemics... thats what we're dealing with instead of sabre tooth tigers. I'm not totally sold that we have it easier than our ancestors, physically yes but psychologically no way.

[super_realist]

Thats absolute nonsense. We have many outlets plus we have always livedd with wars, pandemics and climate change.

Psycholigically we clearly have it easier. What's the comparision to worrying about how many likes you have to whether you will die from a tooth infection.

That sort of whining sounds like a millenial moaning its hard being young these days.

[JuliusHMarx]

I'm not totally sold that we have it easier than our ancestors, physically yes but psychologically no way.

Sure we do - it's clearly apparent in the boundless happiness and positivity constantly seen on this thread.

[incontinentia]

Thats absolute nonsense. We have many outlets plus we have always livedd with wars, pandemics and climate change.

Not before globalisation took hold.

... we clearly have it easier. What's the comparision to worrying about how many likes you have to whether you will die from a tooth infection.

That sort of whining sounds like a millenial moaning its hard being young these days.

I know it might sound crazy, but have you ever stepped back and asked yourself why we need to work and serve others in order to survive? Its slavery by another name... slavery-lite! The last couple of years I have been questioning stuff like this.

[incontinentia]

https://www.thejournal.ie/roderic-ogorman-ukrainian-refugees-uk-concerns-5704150-Mar2022/

UK are officially jerks

[JAS]

You need to stop crowing about bloody capitalism especially when you are a benificiary and advocate of it. There will always be an elite, just as there was under communism. Putin is the richest man in the world, would  you rather live in an authoritarian society like his or one like ours when you can go out and make your own way?

Also, just because someone is ultra wealthy, doesnt necessarily mean they are greedy and it doesnt mean that looking after the poorest in society is their responsibility.
Give me capitalism over communism any day.

As misunderstandings go, your interpretation of what I said and the points I was trying to make go, that response is pretty spectacularly wide of left field even for you

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