Glasgow & Edinburgh Discussion Thread 31: The Roadmap for Success Vs The Perpetual Roadworks of Incompetence

[NeilyBroon]

First topic message reminder :

As requested, another thread connected by the M8. Two teams about as comparable as Adam Peaty and Eric the Eel.

Will Glasgow build on their title win next season?

Will Edinburgh even make the top half of the table?

Speculation and more on another volume of the patter papers.

[jimbopip]

Flounder you win the Services To Recyling award for this post. You first submitted it in 2019 and this is its eight re appearance.

[Hazel Sapling]

For Everitt to get folk onside, he needs to win the next two games against Cardiff (H) and O's (A). He then has a month before Benetton to reset the attacking play. If Edinburgh puts them away, it is not the worst spot to be in considering they have done the three hardest games for NH clubs (Leinster, SA tour).

Random ones:
- Has anyone seen a match report for Edinburgh A vs Bath A?

- Andy Christie looks to have broken and dislocated his ankle early in the Quins game on the weekend. He was in fantastic form and it is a real shame he is out of the November internationals

[cameljunior]

There is a report on the bath rugby site of the A game a 41-24 loss. They also have a video showing all their tries.

[TJ]

For Everitt to get folk onside,

I'm not really blaming Everitt as this issue of inconsistency and poor mental attitude has been apparent under several coaches. I place most of the blame on the senior players.
Cockers made a dent in the issue but once he went they reverted

[EWT Spoons]

I think a wedge of blame can fall at Everett’s door.

Yes, Edinburgh have been inconsistent for years, but no one (as far as I am aware) has forced him to play Healy in near enough every game. Add to that Price, who probably had his best game ever for Edinburgh at the weekend, but has largely been slow, and looked like he couldn’t give a toss. The number of times he’s played a terrible pass/poor box kick/ been charged down and then rather than trying to make amends or get into position, he just stands about and moans, while the opposition take advantage of his mistake and score. It might not get caught on camera as often as it happens, but he’s got a real knack of doing it literally in front of where I stand.

I also have no confidence this demotion of Healy will last. I know I moan about him in nearly every post, but he is like a black hole of rugby, and very much not in any positive sense. However, Everett seems to rate him, and I am almost certain despite winning without him and the A team getting horsed, he will be back either starting or on the bench next weekend.

So yes, there are issues at Edinburgh from top to bottom, but Everett is far from blameless.

Also, happy for Duhan to move on. He’s very much becoming this team’s Visser. He doesn’t go looking for work and it’s a pet peeve, but when he does get the ball and gets over the try line he dots down immediately, even if he’s under no pressure whatsoever, rather than trying to get under the posts to help with the conversion. It doesn’t seem to bother his teammates so its likely a me issue, but it really annoys me.

[BigGee]

I don't honestly see any way that Edinburgh will be able to afford to hang onto DVD. The top French teams will likely be able to offer double what will be on the table here.

He will also be 30 years old by then, an age when a lot of wingers start to lose a yard of pace and become a little more injury prone. That is not the sort of player position you would want to bet your mortgage on.

Unfortunately Glasgow success will obviously not have gone unnoticed in France either and some of our big players, like Tuipolotu could also be tempted as their contracts come to an end.

[jimbopip]

It would appear that; Wee Shona, Seaman, a Fagerson (Ragnar?) and Dempsey are all out of contract at the end of the season.

Any two would be a big loss. Three would be bordering on catastrophic.

Four and and we'd be the URC's answer to the Tory party.

[BigGee]

It would be good to get some of them tied down sooner rather than later but it would be incredible if we can hang on to them all in the current climate.

Losing Zander would be the one that really scares me, I think he is pretty much irreplaceable.

[Hazel Sapling]

DVDM should cash in. Edinburgh have not struggled to develop back three players historically even though the style of rugby would suggest otherwise. Spending large sums retaining DVDM, Graham and Boffelli whilst largely playing through the forwards is a poor allocation of resources. DVDM deserves to have 3-4 years topping up his pension even though ideally we would have him repopulating the Highlands when he is put to pasture.

Glasgow has managed to complete a renewal before and has managed through to the next golden generation. Losing Tuipulotu, M Fagerson, Dempsey and Steyn would hurt but McDowall is a starter at most clubs, our young back-rows are coming of age (Brown, Ferrie, Mann) and wing is the least impactful position (I used to play wing and made zero impact). I ordered them in order of pain though I would like to keep all of them.

Zander leaving...that is where we struggle. Every other player we have someone who can step up somewhat but Walker has not stayed fit to be able to kick on.

[EWT Spoons]

Richie Gray off to Japan. Assume that’ll see him end his international career as well then.

[RDW]

Trying to speak some positives about Edinburgh, we're already only 1 BP away from matching last year's total!

[BigGee]

Managed to pick up some tickets for Quins v Glasgow at the Stoop in the Champs Cup this Jan.

Should be another good game hopefully. One we should probably have won last time out.

[jimbopip]

Managed to pick up some tickets for Quins v Glasgow at the Stoop in the Champs Cup this Jan.

Should be another good game hopefully. One we should probably have won last time out.

Gee, did you get one for me?
or do i have to use my own ever dwindling supply of bawbees?

[BigGee]

Managed to pick up some tickets for Quins v Glasgow at the Stoop in the Champs Cup this Jan.

Should be another good game hopefully. One we should probably have won last time out.

Gee, did you get one for me?
or do i have to use my own ever dwindling supply of bawbees?

They are all accounted for atm Jim, but will let you know if any drop outs

[jimbopip]

Why thank you kind sir. I'm just whatsapping Bigson to find out if he's up for it. More importantly to see if an evening kick off means we can still get a train to darkest Essex.

Oh, in your medical capacity Blessed Gee Of The bedpan, I must confess to almost being barred from my local hospital last week.
I was in for a colonoscopy and the nurse and doctor were explaining what was about to happen and "If it gets too uncomfortable or ainful just say and we'll take it out."
"So you're going to shove something up my bum and you're suggesting I have a safe word ready. You do know I'm not a Tory MP, don't you?"
They were on the phone to HR so quickly...

[BigGee]

Ah, the joys of a colonoscopy

I had to have both ends done in the same sitting once, known in the trade as a top and tail.

I found it very reasurring when I found out they would not be using the same scope for both ends!

[BigGee]

Quins, Bath and Stade Francaise all interested in signing Sione Tuipolotu apparently.

He may be difficult to hang on to.

[RDW]

Ah, the joys of a colonoscopy

I had to have both ends done in the same sitting once, known in the trade as a top and tail.

I found it very reasurring when I found out they would not be using the same scope for both ends!

Getting old sounds like so much fun...

[BigGee]

Ah, the joys of a colonoscopy

I had to have both ends done in the same sitting once, known in the trade as a top and tail.

I found it very reasurring when I found out they would not be using the same scope for both ends!

Getting old sounds like so much fun...

Ah, the anticipation

[Hazel Sapling]

Quins, Bath and Stade Francaise all interested in signing Sione Tuipolotu apparently.

He may be difficult to hang on to.

Put it in the Silly Season chat. Quins and Bath are odd choices unless they are dumping centres. I assume Glasgow will put in a healthy bid to keep him so it will need to be £350k+ you imagine to get him to move to London. Surprised if Leicester and Northampton were not interested. Got to assume it will be a French side that offers the best deal.

Also it may help the SRU if they bring his youngest brother out. With his two brothers nearby and a baby at home, he may decide two more years at Glasgow (if he is not offered £100-150k/annum more elsewhere) before heading off at the end of the 2027 RWC.

[BigGee]

Trouble is, Finn is on 2 or 3 times that amount at Bath as their marquee player. Others in France on similar.

Hard to turn that kind of money down, as is often said, it is a short career and each game could be your last one.

[formerly known as Sam]

Quins, Bath and Stade Francaise all interested in signing Sione Tuipolotu apparently.

He may be difficult to hang on to.

Depends Quins really. They want extra size at 12 and are looking at options for that. One of which could be Ollie Lawrence or Bath, Bath would then be likely to look at Sione. If Bath keep Lawrence and Quins sign a different target (they are also rumoured to be interested in Kata at Tigers) then it would only be Stade you'd have to fight off (unless Tigers lose Kelly to Ireland as well in which case they would need to recruit, losing one 12 not being an issue due to the emergence of Woodward).

[Hazel Sapling]

Sharks named team for Glasgow

Nche - Mbonambi - Koch (Nyakane - Mbatha - Dreyer)
Etzebeth - Van Heerden (Jenkins)
Kolisi - Buthelezi - M Tshituka (J Venter)

Jad Hendrikse - Jor Hendrikse (Williams - Masuku)
Esterhuizen - Am (Julius)
Mapimpi - Fassi - Keyter

It looks a pretty average 23 with a complete lack of size and talent. No idea how the Sharks will get any go forward whatsoever and scrums should be a doddle

[EWT Spoons]

Healy back in the A's again this weekend. Happy days that he continues to be no where near the first team

[BigGee]

Sharks named team for Glasgow

Nche - Mbonambi - Kock (Nyakane - Mbatha - Dreyer)
Etzebeth - Van Heerden (Jenkins)
Kolisi - Buthelezi - M Tshituka (J Venter)

Jad Hendrikse - Jor Hendrikse (Williams - Masuku)
Esterhuizen - Am (Julius)
Mapimpi - Fassi - Keyter

It looks a pretty average 23 with a complete lack of size and talent. No idea how the Sharks will get any go forward whatsoever and scrums should be a doddle

Jez, that is one strong looking team!

[RDW]

Sharks named team for Glasgow

Nche - Mbonambi - Kock (Nyakane - Mbatha - Dreyer)
Etzebeth - Van Heerden (Jenkins)
Kolisi - Buthelezi - M Tshituka (J Venter)

Jad Hendrikse - Jor Hendrikse (Williams - Masuku)
Esterhuizen - Am (Julius)
Mapimpi - Fassi - Keyter

It looks a pretty average 23 with a complete lack of size and talent. No idea how the Sharks will get any go forward whatsoever and scrums should be a doddle

Jez, that is one strong looking team!

Holy crap

Good luck Glasgow!

[jimbopip]

Glasgow don't need luck. They just need to play as well as they can.
My team;

Wombat-Rushie (Glasgow's answer to Ian Rush)- Ragnar
Richie-Cummings
Matt F- Dempsey-Darge
Hornito-Jordan
Jones-Tuipulotu
Rowe-Mckay-Steyn

Bench; Sutherland-Hiddleston-Talakai, Williams-Samuels, Ventner, Dobie, Haircut.
I think Haircut gets the nod over Meatball because he can cover 15. At LH, it's a toss up between McBeth and Sutherland but the latter has been prominent on the Warriors' FB posts. At LH I think Talakai's southern hemisphere experience gets him the spot, but Ragnar may fancy another 80 minutes on the pitch.

p.s. Tom Mullet Gordon was in the Falcons' programme and it's an interesting interview. Two things stood out for me; the Premierships is a fair bit slower than the URC, he hated playing under Cockers and would rather have given up rugby than continued at Embra.Although I feel a few players still at Embra have done both.

[RDW]

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/darcy-graham-jealous-of-rival-wings-as-pressure-grows-to-regain-form/?fbclid=IwY2xjawF_BWhleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHTDjxB_26mvsgMHamRMRb8wJQnp9hSXq4dRYcP0d-c9DCAdhpEYtnoja6Q_aem_Wjl7NaeAmd6DwX-lbFRd-A

Darcy not hiding his frustration at the state of Edinburgh's backline

[jimbopip]

Well! No Wombat. McBeth starts.
No Richie. Williamson-Cummings with Samuels-Brown benching. Has the Big Man stolen his last line out for us?
Cancilliere is fit again so it's Dobie Haircut to bench.
Biggest surprise is no Shug. The Lord Stafford is at 13.

[Hazel Sapling]

McBeth - Hiddleston - Zander (Sutherland - Matthews - Talakai)
Williamson - Cummings (Samuels)
M Fagerson - Dempsey - Darge (Brown - Venter)

Horne - Jordan (Dobie - Hastings)
Tuipulotu - Lord Stafford
Rowe - McKay - Cancelliere

It is very good though no Bhatti, R Gray or H Jones. Steyn injured. Fantastic experience for the young players in McBeth, Hiddleston, Williamson, Samuels and Brown.

Sharks are not far off a starting SA team and Townsend will be watching this closely you would imagine. A good performance here might make Townsend's mind up on who gets in the 23 against SA next month.

[RDW]

Edinburgh A beat Glasgow A! 29-12

https://glasgowwarriors.org/glasgow-a-vs-edinburgh-a/

[bsando]

Loving these A games, hope some players make the chile game.

TE and AB both mentioned that someone from Edinburgh had a dig at them in the press box after the Stormers win. Both seemed confused by that person’s behaviour given it was one win, at home to a side in bottom half of the table. Bit of a strange incident by the sound of it.

I’d like to see vdm stay at Edinburgh but they’ve got to start playing better rugby. I like the idea of having vdm fit for Scotland duty and not overplaying in France.

[RDW]

Loving these A games, hope some players make the chile game.

TE and AB both mentioned that someone from Edinburgh had a dig at them in the press box after the Stormers win. Both seemed confused by that person’s behaviour given it was one win, at home to a side in bottom half of the table. Bit of a strange incident by the sound of it.

I’d like to see vdm stay at Edinburgh but they’ve got to start playing better rugby. I like the idea of having vdm fit for Scotland duty and not overplaying in France.

That's a bit disappointed to hear and again not a great sign of the culture at Edinburgh. Tom English and Andy Burke were very blunt on their assessment but we're also professional and fair, and didn't unjustly single out any particular individual.

Can the Edinburgh players really deny they had a point?

[bsando]

Loving these A games, hope some players make the chile game.

TE and AB both mentioned that someone from Edinburgh had a dig at them in the press box after the Stormers win. Both seemed confused by that person’s behaviour given it was one win, at home to a side in bottom half of the table. Bit of a strange incident by the sound of it.

I’d like to see vdm stay at Edinburgh but they’ve got to start playing better rugby. I like the idea of having vdm fit for Scotland duty and not overplaying in France.

That's a bit disappointed to hear and again not a great sign of the culture at Edinburgh. Tom English and Andy Burke were very blunt on their assessment but we're also professional and fair, and didn't unjustly single out any particular individual.

Can the Edinburgh players really deny they had a point?

Yeah and Bryan Eason came on their pod and said the criticism they gave the women was a compliment because they weren’t being patronising. The bar has been lifted. The same applies to Edinburgh who as TE said have a very well funded squad. The culture at edinburgh does seem a bit rotten. Perhaps if all goes south this season a big clear out of the back room staff with a new coaching setup could improve matters? Let’s hope it doesn’t come to something as extreme as that.

[bsando]

Congrats Glasgow on clawing back two BPs. It may seem unbelievable but tbh I thought they’d find a way.

[jimbopip]

Well! It's a glass half full, half empty result.
2 points away against a team with 10 Springboks. That's a positive.
Beaten and never really imposed our gameplan for any but the briefest of periods. That's a negative.
If Glasgow win next week then it'll be a successful tour.

[bsando]

It was a formidable lineup so I think two BP’s is a good result. The loss will add more fuel to the fire.

[BigGee]

Cricket, just watched that on delay

What a finish to the game. Loved the coast to coast try.

We'll take the 2 points, but we also left some easy points out there and we could have got more.

Sharks will do well if they play that team every week, except they won't!

[Hazel Sapling]

It was a test match level with Fassi the difference maker including the try where the Glasgow pack switched off on the penalty 5m out. That will be shown a few times with not much to say.

Missed two fairly simple conversion chances as well that would have got us a draw.

Hiddelston needs to be in the Scotland squad and arguably the starting jersey. The scrum was the victim of a couple of poor decisions in the first half but he did well in the set piece and worked hard to turnover the ball. If Matthews is not starting, it should be him.

I think Smith's obsession with size did mean we missed out a bit in our attacking play. Hastings is a better distributor than Jordan and Sharks did a great job rushing Tuipulotu. I would have brought Hastings on earlier to buy Tuipulotu that extra half second. Our kicking from hand was also a bit limited with McDowall's clearances mixed and the box kicking getting worse through the match. Having someone who can kick from 10 may have helped relieve pressure on the 9's and McDowall.

[bsando]

Edinburgh. Ugh. I hope they can find a way to win.

[TAFKA The Oracle]

I’ve only seen the halftime and full time scores, but looks like a good ole fashioned capitulation in the second half by Cardiff!

[bsando]

Wow well that was unexpected!

The trophy is good as ours!

[BigGee]

Well where dud that Ali Price appear from?

We all thought he was a busted flush but there he was right back to his best.

Some promising signs from Edinburgh but they can still make hard work of things.

Still a few of their players now putting their hands up for Scotland selection.

Schoeman is still our best LH

Muncaster will be in the squad ahead of Bradbury and Crosbie

Matt Currie had his best game of the season.

Ashman seems to have realized that Harrison is a real threat to his starting spot

Ali Price reminded Toonie that he is still a professional rugby player

Not sure he will be in the squad this time, but Tuipolotu Jnr had his best game yet and seems to be gaining some confidence

[RDW]

Great 5 points Edinburgh! If we can get that last win on the road before the AIs it will actually be a pretty successful start to the season.

Sounds like things didn't quite go right for Glasgow but if Scotland got that score against the Springboks we'd be pretty content, so 2 LBPs is a good outcome.

[RDW]

Just watched the 2nd half - that was probably the best half Edinburgh has played in a few years. Dominance and power from the pack, inventive set piece plays, backs actually looking dangerous.

Still plenty room for improvement though - we made a right mess of trying to get the BP and very nearly didn't. Vellacott going off script and shipping the ball wide when it wasn't on, and when the pack had been getting so much success. We lost our head a bit in that last 10 minutes. Lineout again fell apart at the wrong time.

Some big players finally standing up though and showing what they can do!

[BigGee]

Interesting to see at the end of the game with the cameras panning the players on the pitch, you could see Everett spending some time with Ben Healey talking to him in a very reasurring and supportive manner.

You get the feeling he has not given up on him but it is also hard to know what he has got in his toolbox to improve his game.

[EWT Spoons]

Interesting to see at the end of the game with the cameras panning the players on the pitch, you could see Everett spending some time with Ben Healey talking to him in a very reasurring and supportive manner.

You get the feeling he has not given up on him but it is also hard to know what he has got in his toolbox to improve his game.

Hopefully he was telling him Cardiff is lovely this time of year and that he should be speaking to the players and coaches to see if he can get a move

[BigGee]

Interesting to see at the end of the game with the cameras panning the players on the pitch, you could see Everett spending some time with Ben Healey talking to him in a very reasurring and supportive manner.

You get the feeling he has not given up on him but it is also hard to know what he has got in his toolbox to improve his game.

Hopefully he was telling him Cardiff is lovely this time of year and that he should be speaking to the players and coaches to see if he can get a move

I doubt that was the conversation, but still, you can but hope!

[jimbopip]

Bad news from Bokkiebokkieland: Seaman's leg injury is worse than it first appeared and he could be out for 8 weeks, also Nathan Macbeth has a medial ligament injury.
Looks like both will miss the AI' s.
Hopefully Alan Dell is ready to step into the front row. We really want to see a fit Ollie Smith too.

[RDW]

Totally forgot Ollie smith existed! How long has he been out for now?

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